I have not gotten solid proof that my husband is having an affair but he already said something like this to our oldest son last weekend while I was away at a religious retreat with the other 2 older children. WH said "I need to talk to you about something and I feel you are old enough to understand it. As you may have noticed mom and dad are not getting along. I drive mom nuts and mom drives me nuts. I wanted you to know what is going on so you are prepared for what may happen in the future." I was PO'd at WH for talking to DS. WH is laying down the ground work (excuse trail) for him leaving. What WH doesn't know is what is coming his way. He really believes I won't tell anyone and he will just be able to leave after telling people we tried but it just didn't work.

One of our favorite activities has become driving around at night looking at Christmas lights in our town. I grab a blanket and a mug of hot chocolate, we turn on the Christmas radio station, and it's very nice. :-)

Yippee!! Glad to hear it!! You are a real trooper, SunnyD, and I am so proud of your progress.

and ummmmmmmmmmm, did you have to turn the A/C on to compensate for the blanket and hot chocolate??

Mel<----who had to turn the A/C back on yesterday because it is so warm!

OH - and by the way, Mel: in that discussion I mentioned that I wanted what I saw him give to OW in terms of romance/passion - through having read those emails between them. We then talked about how A's are more exciting because they're forbidden, etc... Then, I mentioned that's why I understand, even if I don't like, the fact that withdrawal does occur

SD, you are a shining example of why and how exposure works. To your credit, you pushed through the FEAR and did it anyway. And today you reap the results.

As far as the love in your marriage, I want to tell you that if you stay on track, your H will feel the same romantic, passionate feelings for you. It wasn't the thrill of secrecy as much as it was her ability to meet certain needs and make him happy. You are in a UNIQUE position to do a much better job than she ever did. The feelings he had in his affair will some day SOON *PALE* in comparison. This is the truth and any WS in a recovered marriage here will attest to this.

I do have a question: I am still not sure what needs were being met by OW so that I can make sure to meet them. I honestly don't think H really knows either to put a finger on that. THe only thing I can come up with is that she probably made him feel younger and freer: she represented his youth and lack of responsibilities. I am unclear how to give him those feelings because I can't help that we have a household full of responsibilities! lol I do know I can do my best to share my burden so they aren't all on his shoulders alone, but I just can't say for sure what needs she met. That bothers me.

Maintaining a marrige is puttting your best feet forward all the time. If your husband and your needs are being met, lb are not committed and the program is being worked then you are doing well. No need to focus on what en's the ow was meeting.

THe only thing I can come up with is that she probably made him feel younger and freer: she represented his youth and lack of responsibilities. I am unclear how to give him those feelings because I can't help that we have a household full of responsibilities!

SD, so glad to hear you had a nice Christmas! I would leave skanyhola out of any discussions and focus on meeting the top 4 intimate needs. Being good at meeting those needs will do more to restore the passion than anything else. Focus on: conversation, affection, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment and BE SURE to get in 20+ hours of UA attention. You have a huge advantage over the STD ho in that you are together in person. She did not have that advantage. But the fact that he was addicted to her with only phone and email contact tells me the hook was conversation and maybe even admiration.

I would take the time for BOTH of you to read through the emotional needs so you understand them and then take the EN questionaires. But focus most of your attention on the 4 intimate EN's and getting 20+ hours of UA. <----that will do more to restore the passion than anything...

That "freedom" and "youth" is part of the fog. It's part of the descending lack of reality needed to create the environment and attraction for the A to happen.

I heard that line "I didn't have any obligation/responsibility with him" but it's utter bovine excrement. Obviously, there was enough obligation and responsibility to have sex and disrespect your marriage. There was enough obligation/responsibility to lie, and sneak, and steal.

It was, however, youthful. It was useful like drug use, or any other destructive behavior children take part in which only takes the "thrill" into consideration, and not the possible damage and injury it will cause to self or anyone close to them.

So, if feeling "young" is walking around with your head firmly lodged in your anal sphincter is a good feeling, I'd rather feel old.

Having said that, I do know there is a good post I was directed to here on MB (by Jeff, I think...) about the reason it needs to be hashed out at some point, at least to some degree.

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

[
I haven't brought up IdaHO (as I like to call her in my mind, hee hee) at all. We haven't even discussed many details of the A at all. I do have questions that pop up but quite frankly, I haven't wanted to discuss it much. H and I did talk about that. He is not unwilling to discuss the A, but he thinks it talking about it would do nothing but bring up hurt. I would press the issue more, but I don't really feel like discussing it either at this point. Having said that, I do know there is a good post I was directed to here on MB (by Jeff, I think...) about the reason it needs to be hashed out at some point, at least to some degree. I think it is mostly in "de-romanticizing" the whole affair.
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Update: I reworked Joseph's letter to my situation and emailed H last week about discussing the A. He still was reluctant because of it bringing up hurt and pain, but we did discuss some thing willingly. (Just to note: he has been willing to do every single thing I have asked of him through recovery, like it or not.)

SO: I got some questions answered. Others have popped up since then. I do feel I have the right to discuss whatever I need to discuss. BUT...I also read that talking about the A is actually a lovebuster, withdrawing from BOTH spouses love banks. I wonder if at some point you just have to accept that you are always going to wonder more about the A. I truly do feel I can move on from it now. Yet, I don't want to feel like I have unanswered questions. Maybe I will always have some sort of unanswered questions.