Exactly. Next time she does that, point out that your trust needs to be earned, not demanded, then move on to another subject.

K, was just making sure I understood you.

By the way, I don't remember who it was that called me out for setting the bar low so I gave it some thought today and I think I came up with some reasonable requirements.

1) No more online games (like WoW)
2) Discontinued relations with the people from WoW (and a caveat to this is Gaming Friends STAY IN THE GAME, do not bring game friends to the real world, and do not bring the real world to the game, aka personal information/flirting/sexual conversations).
3) We get marriage counseling, lots of it.

One major helpful boundary that sapphire and I gave ourselves was no friends of the opposite sex in any situation. Whether it is at work, online, or neighbors. It is something we should not be dabbling with. That is only one thing we do to set the bar higher. (sapph also said I was setting the bar to high for her, but I really had no expectations of her, extreamly low expectations and low bar at the time).

Another thing to raise the bar is 20+ hours of UA time each week. I would suggest thinking of more ways, MB ways, to raise the bar for you two to have a good recovery, and mark those as part of your plan.

A lot of this "raising the bar" and setting boundaries can only be done after the affair is over. It helps in the recovery, but right now they lines in the sand that your WW will have to meet in order for you to gain trust in her over time.

I like your ideas, only thing is in the 12 years I've known my wife she's only ever had one female friend. Is this something I should consider?

I brought it up, Chris, and I think you're on to a good start.
If your WW was an alcoholic, would you allow her to drink 'occasionally'? I don't think so. Alcoholics can't drink 'occasionally'. They have to stop, or their alcohol addiction cannot be eliminated.

It's the same with your WW's online gaming, IMO. She can't do it.

Two things:
Stop getting into those circular arguments with her. They will get you nothing as long as she in eyeball-deep in her addiction.

I was thinking about you last night, and I came up with something that I haven't seen here before (although I may have just missed it, don't credit me with an original thought ):
It will be difficult for you to help her with her internet issues while you're not physically there.

My thought is this: If I were in your shoes, one of my requirements for recovering the M would be that a disinterested third party (someone you trust) would take her computer to a tech guy and have a keylogger installed with email reports of her computer activities being sent to you. Obviously she would know that a keylogger was installed. This would be the equivalent of an ankle monitor for an alcoholic on house arrest, KWIM? There would be some accountability, and she would be on notice that her online activities are monitored by you.

I haven't thought out all of the ins and outs of this (that's when I fell asleep ) But I don't think there's a down side to it.

Of course, your WW has to be ready to get on board with recovery before that can happen.

Just my big pre-snooze brainstorm. I'm hoping we can get some opinions from some other posters on this.

It's a good idea, the problem with it though is she will just swap to using Ventrilo to talk to these guys (which she already has). She'll get hers no matter what.

You could possibly configure your Internet router (ADSL?) to block the ports required for Ventrilo to operate.

Don't roll over because you think she'll try to figure out a way around it. Do it anyway. Close as many open doors as you can. I suspect that a big topic of her chats with OM will involve their gaming, and if they're not gaming they'll lose their main topic of conversation.

Make it hard for her, Chris.

Chris Your wife having only one female friend is a problem. She may even use that same line as cannon fodder to throw you off. How would you respond to her if she said the same thing to you?

I would say something like: "Friends of the opposite sex cause jealousy and mistrust in a marriage, the same thing we are going through right now. I am trying my best to save our marriage and this will help."

Basically, give her the broken record.

This should only be one of many requirements for her.

I do not know the best way to present her with these requirements, or when to present them to her, but I have a feeling that now is not the time. Try to get the affairs taken care of first, but plan to give her a list of way to improve your marriage in the near future. Like when you are both ready to read SAA, HNHN, or LB together.

Originally Posted by Chris_USAF

I like your ideas, only thing is in the 12 years I've known my wife she's only ever had one female friend. Is this something I should consider?

Hi, Chris!
I've been lurking since you started your thread.
First, let me say:
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY!!!!!


Are you saying that your W has NO same-sex friends where she lives?!? Does she live in her home town or a city where she is choosing to not make new friends? Do her parents/your dad live in the same city? Does your W have any siblings who would help you by being your W's "accountability partner(s)" in your stead? Are there any Aunts, Uncles, Cousins, family members who would come alongside your W, in your stead, in an effort to help her deal with urgent issues?

Maybe you have already answered these questions. If so, please forgive me...

I'm pulling for you! Your service to our country is important to me... However, your service to your M is more important!

God Bless, Sweetheart!

WoW communication port: 3724
Ventrilo default port: 3784, but the server admin is in control of which port it uses, and none are ever the same. These ventrilo farms will use the same IP address then rent out dozens of ports to users. Blocking these things is tough unless you know the specific ventrilo they are using, at least you can block that one ventrilo.

I can't. She had her REALLY good friend Jon uninstall all my remote desktop software. He's such a swell guy.

Unless there is some super secret way I don't know about, I no longer have access to my home network.


If there is still one open door, it doesn't matter. There is no point monitoring her if I'm missing majority of the conversation.


I gave up all female friends to prevent jealousy and issues. I had one before, she exploded so I ended it and I've never sought out another. The headache is not worth it.

The other thing is a good idea. I feel if my list of requirements gets too big though, she's just going to see me as a much larger control freak than she already thinks I am and it's going to backfire. Not saying I don't agree with you though, just throwing it out there.


She has no real female friends. She met a few women for playdates but I can tell she doesn't truly like them. She just does it to give our kids other kids to play with.

She has no family she can rely on for support. Most of her family is mentally challenged, druggies, most don't even have custody of their own kids, etc. The ones that don't have issues live in other states. Her parents are part of why she is the way she is today. I'm not blaming them per-say, but they damn sure haven't helped. She is a LOT like her mom. Her dad and I see eye to eye on a lot of issues because of this but he won't act against his daughter. I've already lost that battle before.

Here is an article from Dr. Harley on opposite sex friendships.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8119_friends.html

Jon also helped her regain connection to WoW.

Man I'm really loving this guy messing with my home network.

Put this option in your arsenal and be ready to use it anyway.

It's there, always has been. She even offered it to me and I told her the same thing I told you. She'll just log into Ventrilo to say her dirty.

Do you mean she's reconnected now?

How much access do you have to that PC? Perhaps the next step is to disable the applications themselves so they can't run at all. E.g. flag one of the executables as an unwanted file in your AV scanner, if it allows you to do so. Or insert a script in the startup to overwrite one of the needed DLLs with another file, so even if she does a reinstall, the script will corrupt the application during the next startup. Or enable the built-in Software restriction policies so Windows itself will block the targetted applications from running. Or if you want to REALLY lock it down tight, use IPSEC policies to restrict every request from the computer that does not terminate on Port 80, Port 443 or one of the ports Windows uses for local networking. This locks the machine down tight network-wise, it's silent and very few people know how to troubleshoot what could be causing the connectivity problems, as very few people know about this feature of Windows. I've only come across it once, and I'm an IT old-timer. .

You're missing the point, Chris.

This is action. Actions speak louder than words.
It confirms your intent with her.
It takes away the fantasy aspect of the game and the OM relationships within the game.
It removes the main topic of conversation with online OMs. That's HUGE. The game is their launch-point for conversation. It's the only thing they have in common!

These are powerful things. Please don't minimize the power of cutting off her online gaming!

Yes he removed my ability to remote into the computers, even my file server. He had her completely wipe out all software I use to connect and even reset my router so all those settings are gone too.

I have no way to connect unless you know some super secret way.

Yes she is reconnected. I'm currently on the phone with Blizzard to get the authenticator taken off the account so I can log in and cancel the subscription, change the email, and change the password. I'll probably end up changing the secret question to something completely off the wall too so she can't figure it out and call in and change everything back.

Wonder if you can press charges against him for tampering with your computer without your permission. Just a thought.