Beware; the items may scream as their demonic taint is exorcised.

You want to extend an olive branch Athena? You take it out and burn it all.

THAT would be an act of commitment.

I know I said I'd stop talking about OM and I will, but I did want to respond to this one.

He knew he was being an *ss at home. He told me she was depressed and cried all of the time. She got them in counselling and he lied there too. I knew all of the lying he was doing everywhere else.

He probably realized I wasn't going to leave my H and he owed his wife and family to stay and make it work too. He and I talked a lot about if we could ever be happy leaving everyone broken in our wake - would we ever get over it. We were too scared to make a decision either way. Getting caught made the decision for us.

@athena99 -

IMHO, you are a Renter. You keep Score. "If I get my needs met, I will meet your needs."


But you only were able to do this after he met your need of Initmate Conversation.

What ENs of BS have you met that didn't require your ENs being met first?

And in the distance, I hear violin music playing softly.

Athena, SNAP OUT OF IT! You're not a stupid woman! He 'owed' it to his family??? No, DUH! He's MARRIED!

This is how you can tell it was an affair: If he was so unhappy in his marriage, why didn't he end the marriage, reflect and heal and then begin dating?

What you are saying, in effect, is that he would only leave if you left. You decided not to leave your marriage, so he went back to his wife.

Affairs are back-ups and miserable ways to deal with one's own issues. Again, his actions are screaming that he was not miserable in his marriage, just a miserable person.

OK Athena, in the immortal words of Bugsy, after telling bugs bunny to shud up once, "SHAD UP SHADDIN UP RABBIT"

Athena, he was not scared. The truth is that he would have never left his wife for you. All the fear in the world would not have stopped him if that is what he really wanted. He was making his marriage work because he had no intention of leaving his wife.

If he had wanted to leave his wife, he would have. The proof is in the pudding. I know you don't want to accept that, but the truth is in his actions.

Cake Eaters

So you talked the talk. So once the light of day was on your affair it was off.

POSOM knew that you could never meet all his needs. I bet you a million dollars that one of his top ENs is Open and Honest. His BW could and you couldn't. You couldn't with your BS and you couldn't with him. POSOM knew this with a certainty. If you could meet his needs he would of left his BS for you in a heart beat.

Be honest, you as a Cake Eater, knew that POSOM could never meet all your needs.

Athena, will you make a post of 5 good traits your husband possesses?

You need to realize that having NC with you is the best decision right now for this POSOM I bet you a million dollars that their marriage.....

is in a REAL recovery
He's happier then he has ever been in his life
Loves his wife very much
Glad that the affair came out in the open.

So please stop talking about how he is regretting not being with you, because chances are he is GLAD that it happened.

I didn't think of it like that. Talking made me feel close to him. Close enough that I felt like I could reach out and touch him without feeling creepy. I actually enjoyed it too.

I thought I did a good thing. Without the talking, every time I'd summon up the courage to touch him, I immediately felt bad because I "didn't mean it". I wasn't waiting to "get mine" first and I wasn't withholding it out of some sense of keeping score. Having that talk certainly did a lot to make me feel something for him again. This morning I thanked him for talking and I asked if he noticed the affection I was showing last night. He seemed very appreciative. Is it wrong to ask him if he noticed? I don't want the recognition, but I want to know that it is getting through and making the deposits.

I will admit that I am not making much of an effort to meet his ENs right now. I felt so distant from him. But I think that with how well things went last night and that we are already making plans to do more talking tonight and planning a date night out to look at some books, I will be able to change that.

I know that feelings follow actions, but I found it hard to take that first step when the feelings aren't there at all. When he talks to me, I feel something and that gets me started. When we stop talking for weeks on end, I have to start all over again and it is frustrating because I question everything again. Maybe once we are over the hump and in a good place, I won't be starting from the bottom ever again.

The saddest part of all is that you actually fell for this. Your OM must have been thrilled to find a side dish who would believe such a riduculous lie. NOW do you see why he kept you around for *10 years*??


Please keep reminding yourself of this. He is no different from any other cheating man. He gave you whatever lie you wanted to hear so you'd feel good about cheating with him and would keep doing it. That's the coin he used to pay you.

_________________________

I'm thinking that your really aren't doing Undivided Attention.


20+ UA time will fix this. How are you scheduling this? What does your UA consist of?

- He has NEVER in my experience said a disrespectful thing to me (there was one joke he made very early on in our dating and as soon as the words were out he knew he made a mistake, so I don't even count it).

- He has a WONDERFUL extended family that I am blessed to know and be a part of.

- He is INCREDIBLY intelligent and logical.

- He LOVES his children dearly (even though they try his patience much of the time).

- He didn't kick my *ss to the curb when I told him about my A. He was RESERVED and understanding.

- He has a GREAT sense of humor.

- He would NEVER LIE to me.

- He works HARD and takes pride in it.

- Everyone who knows him RESPECTS him.

- He has a heart of GOLD and cries at sappy movies.

More than 5, but he is a great guy ... better than I deserve.

Our UA is just being around each other - shopping, doing crosswords, watching tv. I guess that isn't "undivided" attention, is it?

I suspect the two of you may be engaging in 'parallel play', KWIM? You're in the same room, but not engaged with each other.

Can you brainstorm with your BH for things to do that will put more of the focus on each other?

Here's some of what we do:

Rules:
1. The activity includes only the two of you. No other adults. No kids.
2. You are not allowed to discuss your children.
3. You both need to enjoy the activity or be willing to experience it enthusiastically.

Short list of suggestions:
Make cookies together - use a new recipe you've never tried.

Wash the car.

Play badminton. Golf. Bowling. Any sports activity that involves just the two of you. Congratulate H's good shots (throws, hits) commiserate on the bad ones. Show him that you are engaged and interested in his play.

Bubble bath together. Watch where you put your feet. Loofah each other. Fire up the candles and put them around the edges of the tub. (If it's a jacuzzi, move the candles before you turn on the jets. We found out the hard way that they can vibrate right into the water )

Build a family website or blog. (Total transparency: this one is on our bucket list. We haven't done it yet.)

Make meals for the elderly/disabled and deliver it to them.

Board games. Talk smack during the game and don't mean it.

Brainstorm holiday gifts for under $10.

Make and jar spaghetti sauce for gifts.

Go through your old photos. Make a scrapbook of your marriage. Label the photos with names and dates before you get so old that you forget who the people in the photos are.


Not all of this will be you cups of tea, of course. You and your H have your own interests. The idea is to take those interests and fashion them into an adventure for the two of you. It takes some commitment and creativity, but it can be done.

Yeah, I just read the information about Undivided Attention and realized that we are NOT doing it properly.

Policy of Undivided Attention


We are going to talk tonight and maybe even go over our EN questionnaires so we can start planning things to do (and do better) during our UA.

Yay - I have a plan again. And it feels good. Thanks guys!!!!! Sorry I lose focus, stop doing what you've advised, and end up getting caught up in the fog. Can't promise it won't happen again, but I know where to come to get straightened out (with lots of 2x4s).

That's exactly it. I think we've been doing that for many years (before the A), even with SF.

Thanks for the suggestions - they all sound like fun. And I have to admit, 24 hours ago I was seriously doubting I would look forward to doing anything with BH. I hate taking him on my crazy roller coaster of ups and downs (if I were creative, I'd give it a funny name ) but hopefully that will get better too.

Maritial Bliss

I love these ideas

You may have them.