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#2463482 01/13/11 12:36 AM
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abc098 Offline OP
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Hi,
Have been reading this forum a lot lately. Briefly my story, Beginning of october after the worst fight we've ever had, the wife began to be distant. A couple weeks later she wrote me an email detailing her problems with the marriage. I told her I would stop those actions. She continued to be distant although at that time I just felt she was acting weird, which made me angry. During one of those arguments she stated she wanted marriage counseling to which I said no because I did not realize how serious matters were. Approx 3 weeks later, I realized that she was still distant, I asked for marriage counseling at which point she said no. I asked multiple different times. She stated that she needed space and so I moved out for a week to live with a friend. After that week, she said she was going to stay with one of her "girlfriends". Forward a few more weeks to early december, she states she wants a divorce. At this time, my parents came and tried to talk her out of it which obviously didn't work. All along I had been suspecting their might be an affair going on, but never thought she could do anything like that. I had enough proof the few days after my parents came and confronted her. She denied until I told her the proof I had after which she confessed. It seems like it's mostly emotional but they have at least kissed. She already wanted a divorce so this didn't change matters. I immediately made her expose it to her siblings and I also wrote them an email, but didn't seem like that had much of an affect. I exposed it to a couple of her friends who although say it's not right what she's doing are supporting her and understand because in her mind the marriage was over. I exposed it to her parents who said they are trying to get her to stop but she's not listening. I have asked the OM to quit having contact with her. I mailed a letter to his parents a couple days ago. She completely moved out last week to her own place. The OM is her coworker. I emailed him couple days ago to stop contact with her or I will expose him at work (he is her supervisor). He did not reply however she did very angrily stating I was hateful and vengeful and how dare I defame him at work. This from the same woman who stated how much she loved me three months prior, was talking about having kids, etc. I have been reading a lot about how having an affair is like being a drug addict and that's kind of how i'm thinking of it, a good person making a bad decision. It's hard to get peace of mind knowing the marriage is end while she is having an affair (although she states that's the not the reason and it would have ended anyway but i don't believe that honestly). Just looking for thoughts/suggestions, etc. Thankyou

We have been married for less than 2 years, together for 6, have no kids. Any help/suggestions appreciated.

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Welcome to Marriage Builders. I would suggest you do expose him at work. Is he married?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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He is "unfortunately" not married (would make exposing easier)
I am planning on sending an anoymous email to their boss stating he is engaged in an affair without mentioning my wife's name...

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There is a simple rule, when you expose you do so in a way that leaves no doubt that there is an affair. There is no anonymous exposure, the only way you have a chance to save your marriage is to ensure there is no contact ever with he OM , you write a letter to the Hr department and you call his boss and make sure the message gets through. Doing this by stealth only facilitates the affair and discredits yourself . Do this now as every delay plays into their faviour, if she lose her job so what , a marriage is worth more than her job. You name and you shame both parties, you tell the truth.

Go to facebook and track his name down, it is your goal to let his family and friends know he is in an adulterous affair with your wife, there has to be enough pain for him to make to affair uncomfortable enough for him not to want to be near your wife, these recommendation are grounded so please do not dilute them or waver.

Last edited by Xau; 01/13/11 03:44 AM. Reason: Typo
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abc, you haven't been reading quite enough yet.

Does negotiating with terrorists work? Not often.

But you negotiated with the man who is pursuing (and, if she has spent nights away from your house, quite possibly bedding) YOUR wife. You just showed weakness. And as far as your marriage is concerned, he's a terrorist. He's not trying to save your marriage. He's not even indifferent to it. He is, by his actions, actively taking measures that are likely to kill your marriage.

You don't negotiate exposure, you don't "threaten it," you just do it. By warning the OM but not exposing, you have made a HUGE tactical mistake that could cost you the battle for your marriage.

It's not necessarily too late, but you're running out of ammo. Use it wisely:

If you have clear evidence, you should send letters. LOTS of them. I would practically wallpaper their office building with evidence of their affair, so that every person there, every clerk and secretary and maid and parking-lot attendant, sees what they are up to. When they arrive at work one day, it should be the buzz of the office!

Look: The fact that OM is her supervisor is like a gift from the Gods for you: It means that unless he is the owner of a privately held company, there's someone higher-up to whom he reports; and that someone probably will be anything but pleased at the legal risks (sexual harrassment, reputational risks, financial risk of getting socked with a huge lawsuit if she were to decide that his advances constitute "harrassment" someday in the future, etc.) to which this person is subjecting his company. This reflects tremendously poor managerial judgement, and his higher-ups may well act to put pressure on him, if not dismiss him outright in order to cover their bums.

So you have a beautiful opportunity to bust up their little affair snow-globe! Write his higher-ups a letter, and cc: a copy to the company's general counsel, so that each recipient knows that some other senior person in the company has also received the same letter; that'll make it less likely that they'll try to sweep it under the rug.

You will not be "defaming" him; he defamed himself! As long as your evidence is clear, you will simply be telling the truth.

Do not negotiate this, and do not further warn them. Just do it. You also need to completely expose to family & friends of both of them in the same manner, because you may have dampened the impact of your workplace-exposure by negotiating with the OM & tipping him off to your thinking.

(Never share your thinking with a terrorist. Your goal is not to co-opt him, your goal is to rock & shock his cozy world with the salutary light of day & truth.)

This is not done for the purpose of humiliating per se; it may have the effect of humiliating the affairees, but it's actually an act of love that you do for your wife, who is indeed effectlvely an addict and likely CANNOT end this affair on her own.

After you marshal your evidence and expose the affair, there are other things you'll need to do, but that has to be your first step.

Now, she will be PO'd at you when you do this. At you. That can wear off, however. There's no guarantee it will; some folks remain wayward. But you have the best chance to save a marriage if your wife is no longer having her emotional needs met via an affair. As long as she's in the affair, you have no chance.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Originally Posted by abc098
He is "unfortunately" not married (would make exposing easier)
I am planning on sending an anoymous email to their boss stating he is engaged in an affair without mentioning my wife's name...
Welcome, abc.
I hate to do a pile-on, but I've got to stress with everyone else: DO NOT THREATEN EXPOSURE. This will give the adulterers plenty of time to get their story straight and paint you out to be a jealous nut-job. Just drop the bomb.

There is a slender possibility that exposure will end this, since your WW got so upset about the thought of it. But you need to do it the right way - none of this slinking around, trying to keep people from finding out that the exposer is you. Do this loud and proud. Hand write the letter and make three copies. Send one to his/their immediate supervisor and one to the CEO/President of the company. Send another one to the corporate attorney if you can identify him. CEO's and corporate attorneys get really anxious when they get letters like that, abc. They don't like it. It smacks of liability, and that equals loss of profit, you get what I'm saying?

Put a 'cc' at the bottom of your letter and list the people who are being copied on it.

Sign your name! Anonymous letters have a way of 'getting lost in the mail.' (Oh, yeah, did I mention to send the letters certified mail so they have to be signed for?) If you do this anonymously your targets will assume you're too chicken to call them if you don't see any action. And they'd be right, wouldn't they.

Believe me, abc, employers hate getting letters like this! When my FWH's employer got his from the BH in my sitch, all hell broke loose in that office. OH, YEAH. There was definitely some attention paid to that. And BUST went the affair.

And that's IF you want to save this. You're newly married with no kids and a WW who obviously doesn't understand commitment. You could walk away from this and find a woman who deserves you and won't screw around on you. Up to you.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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She stated that she got a lawyer and filed for divorce today. States that she will pursue legal action if I expose at work. I said I will sue him for alienation of affection. She called me frantically today, worried and crying that if I expose the OM he will lose his job and ruin the rest of his career. I stated that I wasn't planning on exposing her. I still care about her and am trying not to hurt her. She said by doing this to OM I am hurting her. She is soooo worried about him. States that her filing for divorce has nothing to do with him, but due to he feelings of not being treated well for all those years. Then I said I want to make his life a living hell, and will do whatever I can to ruin his life. I don't know if it's worth it at this point to continue all this given the short time of our marriage. It hurts a lot and I do love her despite all of this....I just don't know...

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EXPOSE TO HIS JOB!!!

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You just found out where the weakness is to end this affair...TAKE IT!! Expose it to his work and family now

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If you really love her and want her back then you would expose his work, and why not?

If they are "soul mates" don't you think everyone should know laugh

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Originally Posted by abc098
She called me frantically today, worried and crying that if I expose the OM he will lose his job and ruin the rest of his career.
Tough $@*^.

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I stated that I wasn't planning on exposing her.
Absolute wrong move. LISTEN to the people here and DO what they say if you are serious about wanting to save your marriage.

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We have been married for less than 2 years

redflag

Has she been married before? <~~~ IMPORTANT !!!


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During one of those arguments she stated she wanted marriage counseling to which I said no because I did not realize how serious matters were.

I'm going to call YOU out on this.
You refused counseling because of a lack of EMPATHY for her distress.
That is the ONLY reason you refused.

Your W clearly said "I am in pain."
You clearly responded "Live with it."

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Approx 3 weeks later, I realized that she was still distant, I asked for marriage counseling at which point she said no. I asked multiple different times.

You asked for counseling when YOU were experiencing pain. You avoided counseling when she was in pain.
See the empathy problem?
I am not picking on you, Dr Harley thinks a lack of empathy is the root of many marriage problems.
Not just yours. Mine. Everyone's.


It helps to have our lack of empathy pointed out to us.
I hope this gives you an "A-ha moment".


abc

I have not read any Plan A carrot so far.

PLEASE click the link in my sig line and inform us of both carrot and stick of your Plan A so far .....

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Defamation and slander are reserved for telling public lies about a person. Is this affair a lie. Nope. therefore it is not slander or defamation, they did it to themselves, not you. If they truly are so happy together then you might as well let everyone know about the joyous time they share.

I also want to say that in October they were probably having an EA at work. She most likely confided in the OM about the current state of marriage, and things just went downhill from there.

If divorce really is the end game for her, then you might as well pull out all the stops now, and save your own butt. Do what you can now so when you move you don't feel like you didn't do enough.

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From LOVE BUSTERS found in the BASIC CONCEPTS:



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Lack of empathy helps makes thoughtlessness possible. Since we don't feel what other's feel, we tend to minimize the negative effects we have on others, and consider our thoughtlessness to be benign. An angry outburst is regarded by some as a creative expression. Disrespect is viewed as helping the other spouse gain proper perspective. And a demand is nothing more than encouraging a spouse to do what he or she should have done all along. None of these is seen as one spouse gaining at the other's expense, because the spouse who is inflicting the pain does not feel the pain. But whenever one spouse is the cause of the other's unhappiness, one thing's for sure -- Love Bank withdrawals are taking place.

I call all the ways that spouses are inconsiderate of each other's feelings Love Busters because that what they do -- they destroy the love that a husband and wife have for each other.

OM will look like a better option to your WW if she feels she is being love-busted by you.

Plan A is not ONLY about exposure.
Plan A is also about becoming attractive (again) to your wife.

If you have shown your wife you can be thoughtless, it is time to show her you can be thoughtful and caring.

CARROT too, not just the stick.




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States that her filing for divorce has nothing to do with him, but due to he[r] feelings of not being treated well for all those years.

This is your W telling you what she needs.

She needs YOU to treat her well.

YES, the stick (of Plan A) still applies, however, it does not sound to me like you have been a stellar husband.

If you were to give yourself a "husband report card", what grade would you assign yourself? How differently would your W grade you as a husband?

I am NOT NOT NOT saying her decision to had an A is your fault.
Her A is 100% HER fault.

The marriage is at lease 50% your responsibility.
Your own behaviors in the marriage are 100% your responsibility.

I am saying this ~~~>your Plan A opportunities are vast if you've not been above a C-level husband these past 2 years.

Last edited by Pepperband; 01/13/11 11:14 AM.
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Also from the LOVE BUSTERS part of the BASIC CONCEPTS:


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The Parable of the Net

Marriage is like a fishing net. Each day fishermen use their nets to catch fish and sell them at the market.
One fisherman takes his fish from the net every day, but let's debris from the ocean accumulate. Eventually so much debris is caught in the net that he can hardly cast it out of the boat, and when he does, it's almost impossible to retrieve. Finally, in a fit of anger, he cuts the net loose and goes home without it. He's unable to catch and sell fish again until he buys another net.

Another fisherman removes debris every time he retrieves the net with the fish he caught. Each time he casts his net, it's clean and ready to catch more fish. As a result, he catches and sells enough fish to support himself and his family.

In this parable, the fish are emotional needs met in marriage and the debris are Love Busters, habits that cause unhappiness.

Bad marriages are like the first fisherman's net. Selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, angry outbursts, independent behavior and dishonesty accumulate over time. The burden of the unhappiness they cause ruins a couple's willingness and ability to meet each other's emotional needs. Eventually the marriage supplies no benefits to either spouse and ends in divorce or emotional separation.

Good marriages are like the second fisherman's net. Love Busters are eliminated as soon as they appear, making it easy for each spouse to meet the other's emotional needs.

What sort of fisherman have you been in the past?

Have you been lazy and not cleaning your net?

It's not too late.

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I am a huge fan of Empathic Listening. It is very hard to master, that is why i am a fan, not a master.

Empathic Listening

Indian Talking Stick

My Talking stick sits on the dresser.

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It is very hard to master, that is why i am a fan, not a master.
rotflmao

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IMHO

You can expose the hell out of this affair and your WW will still feel distant from you.
Will still feel unloved by you.
Will still feel uncared for by you.
And, definitely, not feel that she is adored ~~~> by you.

Exposure is good.
But exposure without considering how EMPTY her love bank is .... will not save this marriage.

I hope this helps.

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Xau Offline
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Clear your thoughts and do not waffle, stop telling her what you are doing. Set up the exposure plan, his friends, family AND work place. Do not waver nor be fearful of her threats, keep off relationship discussions, do not move out of the house, do not agree a separation.

Do you need a copy of plan A?

Do you need an exposure letter for his friends and work?

Do you need an exposure letter for your family and hers?

No words here can force you to do this however be very clear this processes has been developed over decades, you are not the first to do this, do follow the processes so we can take you to the next stage.

Last edited by Xau; 01/13/11 11:19 AM. Reason: Typo
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