Time out from this site. I came here for support not to be made to feel worse. I delt really good today, H had Plan B letter, IM in place, going away on holiday for a week and feeling in a good place.

Then I come here and because I goofed in Plan b (which I am sure happens - well I have read Mimi success thread and she goofedpeyote a few times ) posters jump on the band wagon and leave.

If you say your going to leave and keep coming back, please don't, it just makes me feel your posting is insincere and your hope for my best intentions
are not there.

It seems that there are very few posters stay here for the long term, I hope I will stay as I have gotten a lot from this site just don't want to get distracted.

Constant I am bewildered one minue you tell me not to get discouraged then the next minute your off. That's ok, I am still going on.

Harmony,
There were lots of days that I felt like quitting as well, my sit is different than yours but difficult as well, my husband still worked with the OW for the first 8 months or so.......she eventually left..........but I guess we sort of recovered without the No Contact in place 100% he didn't speak to her, but he did see her from time to time, she was moved to a different department right after I found out.........so we didn't really abide by all the MB rules and probably broke the most important one........I agreed to give her time to find new employment. It went against the MB program.
So as much as I believe in the total NO CONTACT and I did request it and did tell him that until she was gone we couldn't really commit to each other.........
But he stayed living with me the whole time and it was tougher for me with him going to work every day. It's amazes me still how strong I can be.......
I just tried to stay strong and listen to what my gut told me and I tried to believe that waiting a little longer to start on our recovery was worth it for me.......
It is never easy and of course we had slip up with the LB's because of it......
But we are better for it, I'm better for it.
It really takes a long time to figure it all out, we second guess everything and try to read our husband's minds......we assume, we imagine all kinds of scenerios that probably aren't even true..........
and we try to make sense of something that we can't ............
I thought you were on holiday?

Thanks Jessi, I know were you are coming from, I am disappointed in goofing in Plan B, I do want to stay dark and even got to the point where I don't want H to contact me.

I am tired and need a break from it all. Tired of the 2x4s and need a vacation!!

I really have thought about moving or staying with a friend so H won't be able to find me.

Still here still posting and feeling very disillusioned.

Off tomorrorow thanks for your support everyone.

Sorry Harmony, I have been off MB for a few days. I haven't read all of the posts you received in that time.

I will say that as a poster, it is sometimes frustrating to spend your free time trying to help someone only to have that person do everything OPPOSITE than what you advised and then complain when things aren't going their way.

MB isn;t easy. I have slipped myself(see today's update). I have however, learned what it has meant to be in a truly dark Plan B and I have understood what it does for me. I honestly don;t believe that you have had the benefits of a true dark Plan B yet. I also believe that you are going through more harm than is necessary.

My advice to you is figure what it is that you want to do. Figure out if you want to follow MB or not. If you do, accept the 2x4s when they are warranted and stick with it. Learn and grow. This is what is meant about taking care of your own side of the fence.

She's Harmony. I'm Meggin.

I owe you an explanation Harm, let me do some research and I'll post. But get goin on your holiday and have a good time OK?

But as for now, sorry you do not understand why I wanted to quit posting, its not cuz you are a lost cause. Will explain laterz

@Harmony -

To me this is very good progress:
You are taking control of yourself. You are deciding whats best for you and your Recovery.

You are choosing! Good for you!

Your choosing to plan!

Open and honest with your feelings.

Sorry Guys. Couldn't see through the tears and my brain was all mixed up today. See what happens when those pesky Wayturds get in there. They just jumble everything around.

Guys, I can understand the frustration but sometimes it takes a long while before a BS gets it. Harmony, I just don't want to see you reach the RED in your LB-- which is what will happen if you keep having these impromptu interactions with your WH.

Why not give yourself a goal? A complete and total dark Plan B for an entire month, without fail. Then see how much better you feel after a month. I hate to use the word "feel" because we can't go by our feelings for something this important. Your situation requires actions NOT based on feelings. KWIM? These plans are the result of years of research by Dr. H. What is it they say in AA? It works if you work it?

This is from 12-29-10 From the first draft of second Plan B letter.


Was this the IM you were talking about? If I have missed it somewhere where you answered my latest posts about having and IM in place, so you could stay Dark, I appoligize. At this point in this post I am searching still for that response.

This from 12-30-10


Then this which I took as humor, although it did have real issues for you, and of course they needed to be worded better. Thank you for starting on the list that needed to be in Plan B letter, for a road map for WH, and a guide for both of you.


Then this from me. What I felt was a pretty clear and realistic view on how much he needed the letter, and you did also, on 12-31-00. It was not the only time I pushed for the letter, but encompases probably the most rounded reasons I think for having it, and the list..
This is also what I believe


This was all addressing the need for a plan, for both of you. You want to be Dark for awhile, we all agree that might be nessesary for now. The danger with a long plan B is either party becoming used to being apart, and instead of addressing the issues that have hurt the marriage they give up. Without a plan he will not know what to do or what to hope for. Its just not fair Harm, I didn't understand why you couldn't see it.

Then this from JL on 1-02-11


This was again an attempt to make the plan clear, but not to scary and understandable to him.
I wanted you to go dark, in a hurry, and stay there till he got a clue. I know you still have love for him, and he must make some moves toward recovery, but untill you guys work on communication issues it will be hard, as it would anyone, to move forward. It will be extremely hard for him if he doesn't have a road map, and I was, and still am, very concerned about him also.

To your credit you had included a list in your next draft, and also I guess the contacting of your Sis was your IM and it was listed there also. But hear is my list of what ticked me off so much, I hope you get it.

1. When I over the last week or so kept asking you to get an IM, you didn't respond and tell me "I have my Sis". At least to my knowledge. I will keep searching the thread and maybe I am wrong.
2. An IM needs to be trained, again no info whether that has happened, and its very important in order to stay dark and only get nessesary information. In your case barring some disaster it should be only when he is ready to agree to the road map from Plan B letter. IMs need to be trained to not communicate dramatic issues that are geared for inappropiate contact. Something that has happened over and over with you and WH.
3. Watching you float between missing him and being afraid of him when a clear plan B and a capable IM was not seen by (myself, anyway), or in print here was like watching a slow train wreck. You seemed to be balking at initiating a good plan, and MB works only when you do it.


Here is the list update , and its a good one BTW. At this point I was worried WH still didn't have an objective source he could readily turn to, such as the books by Dr H, if one of those lonely nights when he was by himself and banned from contact from you, he read the letter, and he needed definition.

I remember his counseling sessions with SH, and SHs advice, along with his impression of where he thought WH was at. I remember and can imagine WH feels overwhelmed and afraid. I feel that if he can objectivly read the books at his own pace, when he hits rock bottom, (which he will), and realizes HE must do something for himself, well those books will help him and you, whether you reconcile or not.

I pray you do, but it takes two, and "Without a vision the people perish", (Bible but isn't it true?. Its a great truth for everyone).

Back to the point, I felt he was being hung out to dry without any way to find his way back. I know he loves you, and you are both in a hard place between giving up, and what do you do? He has a lot of issues to work out, and so do you, but without him having the means to understand his part, he would not know what to do even if he wanted to.


Thats when I suggested the books for him, because I didn't think he knew or trusted them yet, but soon would when you were dark.

Ok, reference to IM, untrained I suspect, but still I had missed it in last letter, which BTW I thoght was very good.

But I had missed the edit by Mel that took a lot of the long and confusing explanations out until now. I too felt they were unesessary, but I am not an expert on plan B letters, and needed a vet to bring down to simple, which she did.

Mel knows best, and now my suggested list was gone. She is right those things can be worked on when he comes home.

On 1-7-11


So from my perspective, and to my knowledge which was faulty, I understand that now. I believed...

1. You did not have an IM, much less trained, so you could stay Dark.
2. WH had no path back home, and was left with the implication that you would be going on hoiday, where as far as he knows will be hanging out with other men, and he didn't realize how hard you were working on reconciliation.

It was my fault on these assumptions, and all I can do is appoligize. It would have helped if you had answered me faster as to an IM when I asked, but that is no excuse for my reaction.

Mels clear and focused letter re-write was the right thing to do. My attempt to micro-manage your letter and give him a list of requirements although well intended, will come when he is ready to work on things. He will have to want to and do his part first, and he has SH to turn to, when he is ready. Plan B should protect you till hes ready, and leave him with himself to reflect on himself. When he gets tired of that, and hits his bottom, then he will look for help. Thats how it is for all of us. To quote Mel and as she quoted from AA. "Your best thinking got you here". Time to accept some help.

What was missing from my ideology and theory, was the simple fact that Mel knew in her wisdom. He has to want it and its up to him to decide that he does. With that I doubt he would stop at anything or listen to anybody as to how to recover.


It seemed apparent that WH had some deep issues from his past that added misery to your marriage. Those will have to be recognized by him when he is ready also. My attempt at a road map was to simplify his way back to the marriage, where he could recognize the need to address them. This is MB, not indirect to your spouse therapy. You already know he has issues, in his time alone now he has a choice to see them and deal with them. I hope he does as I am sure all of us do.

My tendency to examine all the details cuts both ways, sometimes I can't see the forest through the trees. It doesn't matter if I know this marriage can be recovered or what I think is important for you or him. This thread is for you two guys. What matters is what you see and think.

I will back off for a few days to get some much needed perspective, I have made this thread much to important to me and too personal. I guess I just love seeing people recover from crap that happens to them, but forget its up to them, and all I am is an observer of what they do, and can rejoice in that.

Please forgive my anxiety and ignorance, you are in good hands here from many wise people. Have a great Holiday

The intention of my post was not to encourage people to "bail", I was pointing out MB philosophy and the inconsistancies that I saw as an outsider to this thread.

It was not about one poster doing this or that, it was that solid, MB advice was being given, but this post seemed to sway into interactions and conversations that were not supportive of the aforementioned advice.

Harm, you have been here 6 months, according to my calc. That is not a very long time, but it is long enough for you to understand MB principles.

Yes, you are allowed and encouraged to come here to vent and seek advice.
In my expereince most MBrs will not agree with and encourage actions that unintentionally or intentionally harm the poster.

Even if we very much like and feel sympathy for that person.

Yup BC, Myself I understand that, Thanks for pointing all that out. As far as harming the poster, I beg to differ whether sharing view points and hand holding while exploring thoughts that run through our minds is more of indentifing with there plight, or encouraging to fellowship in misery. There is a fine line I know.

But more importantly, I have to admit that this site is dedicated to the recovery of marriage and MB principles, which I beleive in wholeheartly. So I encouraged Harmony to get into a dark plan B, the MB way, so then, then, she could explore all those feelings and thoughts, without second guessing the plan, and giving up before she ever started. Then we could play junior psychologist, and relate what we knew, as she made a decision.

But this is MB, not Shrink-for-men or a site dedicated to healing all the deeper issues that might plauge these two. MB will work if they want to be married bad enough. There is a limit to how much anyone can do to instill that desire in anybody, and instead of being or trying to be a professional counsellor, It is wisdom that we let them seek that counsel from Dr. H. The site is designed to encourage and reflect MB principles, as far as the deeper issues, "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" It was allways a battle with me whether to stay and answer or address Harms issues, or not, feeling that the deeper issues would be addressed by a qualified therapist in the process of recovery when they both were on board with that.

You have not been the only one who has stated there is to much anaylizing and talk of her feelings here, and not enough action towards recovery. I saw it too, the difference is I thought she would eventually come to the end of her own thoughts if she had someone to bounce them off of, and others did not have time to address those things, and wanted to see results that would have been great for her marriage recovery and personal R also. I agree that certain things needed to be done and encouraged them, but I mixed it with some sharing of perspective at the same time, beliving it was what I should do, for someone so mixed up at this time.


I reacted because of my own emotional reasons, impatience, and bruised Ego regarding this situation. Its not the first time I have felt this way, but its my own fault. What you said BC had a lot of truth in it, and I was allready at a breaking point. It was not you and of course you were not encouraging "bailing". I did what I did and take responsibility for it. If I did something again MB policies, I am sorry for that. Again I defer to the more experienced and objective wisdom of the vets. This is a joint effort in helping people here and my specific opinion is not that important that I should get offended.

Im not bailing

I gotta go deal with grandaughter. ttyl

Hey Harm,

Hope you are having a great Holiday.


I felt I needed to add something in waiting for you to come back to your thread.

I am guilty of waiting too long for you to see you would have to apply the guidance offered by others and doing what was suggested in a complete dedication to Plan B.

I knew others would come here and critisize your lack of commitment to the plan, while I hoped you would work out within yourself a decision to really trust it or not. I was worried that you would lose the opportunity to have other posters help you also.

I took it too personal, thinking I had some understanding of what both of you young people are going through, and seeing that you wanted that happy marrige, it was only a matter of time before you chose reconcilation through the ridged application of MB principles and actions. I still know that its possible.

I was afraid of your doing the 1/2 assed up and down recovery game. I felt very personnaly involved in helping you, and protecting you also. NOT the healthiest place to come from, but I still reacted badly and selfishly when other came on the thread, and challanged you in your convictions.

Its not supposed to be my place to protect you, its your Husbands. I am only here encougarging that recovery, and can only give credit to the truth expressed by others who give objective advice and guidance, which I hope I am part of.

Sorry for the drama, I know thats the last thing you need. Please keep posting and seeking understanding about marriage and recovery. You have been through a lot. Don't let my negativity or anyone elses stop you from seeking peace and happiness.

Also now that you ARE in a solid plan B, this is NOW the time where you can explore the fears that plaugue you, as I pray WH does also.

I hope I can still be of some assistance in that, as others here will be also.

Hoping again you are feeling better and moving forward.

God Bless.

duplicated below

Harmony, thinking of you and hoping you're okay. I have a new name and new thread, but you will remember me as someone who runs 5 miles a day (because you can't prove that I haven't!)

Hey Harm, Is the holiday over yet?

Hi MB Friends!

Hope your all doing ok.

I just got back from my holiday (vacation !) and had a wonderful time, loads of sunshine, loads of excercise, good food and good wine, it was fab. I spent a week in the French Alps zooming around the mountains and I really feel I have had a massive wellbeing boost.

I can highly recommend to anyone in Plan B a change of scenery really does wonders to put perspective on things. Think about that Mitzie and H&G!

I have got rid of a lot of the anxiety and have also proved to myself that I can have fun and be happy just on my own

Had a real good think about things and am giving myself a HUGE pat on the back for dealing with Plan B aswell as I did whilst dealing with the illness and death of my father. It was double trouble. I feel a lot stronger now to 'bat off' H and his attempts to break it, whereas befoere I was in full on grieving/shock for my Dad. I am still dealing with my fathers death, and weirdly as time goes on it becomes more 'real'. Its hard you know. I miss him bad, weird things that you don't even think of.

I am not going to post much from now on as really there is not much to say in Plan B if you doing it right. I get the benefits of it now, to me your lowering 'the bar' by seeing WH unless you see remorse and commitment to the Plan B terms is disrespecting yourself. Still in my own 'conflict' as far as WH is concerned, I go from missing him to being really hurt by some of his actions.

Hi H&G - Yes I recognise you straight away, Run Forest run! I felt like chite before I went away and really recommend you some kind of FUN break if you can to boost your spirits, I will be popping into your thread later, I know you have a lot on right now. Like the name BTW.

Hi Constant - Thanks for coming back to me with your explanation, I totally get you, but for once trust your instincts you know? You have good ones too I just think you may get swayed sometimes, you are right on page with most of what you say. If people call it psycho babble then so be it, you have given me some well needed perspective when things were tough. Thank you.

Hi Scotland - It probably seems like ages ago (i know how much postive impact even just 1 week in Plan B) but I really feel for what you went through early new year. Its almost like self torture. Just even a sniff of what the alien force are upto can send you batty. I liked your advice of people getting frustrated at people helping posters but not taking it on board. I do think peeps have to realise that sometimes 'MB Plans' have to take into account exceptional circumstances when they can be broken and I think I had one of them. Sh said there are others reasons such as close death or baby being born. Anyway, I am back dark now, and ready for any late night, barge through the door encouters of the alien kind. No getting pass me this time wayturd.

Harmony,
Welcome back you sound rested and very together, it sounds like you have it straight with what you will accept for yourself, you have made it to the finish line girlie.......
Start planning the next get away, should be a regular thing just to reboot .......
I'm thinking of getting away a bit myself just to unwind from the every day life that seems to stop me from feeling free........
Anyway glad you are back and feeling good...........I can just picture you gliding down the slopes and sipping wine by the fireplace at night........sounds so wonderful.
Okay you will have to excuse me now............off to pour some wine for myself and flip through a travel magazine.........
jessi

It does sound like you are doing well Harm, glad to you are back.

Thanks Constant, I can't tell you how much better I feel I really do. I have given up smoking, the anxiety and sickness has disappeared, I feel like I am going to be fine whatevers happens