I am going to try my best to piece this story together for you. Sorry of it is long. I am currently devastated and looking for advice. What may make this story different from the others I have been reading is that wife is having a 10 month EA and PA with another woman.

I would have added the details to my signature, but it would not let me for some reason.
Me - 32 W - 32
S - 5 months
M - 2.5 years
T - 5 years
Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY
PA discovered - 1/18/11

My wife and I have had a pretty good relationship from my ideas. There has never been any infidelity, physical violence, deep issues that can cause conflict. We have had our difficulties with communication at times, but what marriage doesn't? My wife and I decided that we wanted to have a baby and began starting in the Fall of 2009. We got pregnant in 11/09. During this time, we decided it would best to start seeing a marriage counselor to help with our communication skills before the baby arrived. These sessions began in the Spring of 2010 and appeared to be very helpful. We fought less. Worked on some of the strategies given. Things were looking better to me. It was also during this time that our therapist recommended that we give each other more free time on our own. I was working from home often, and my wife said that space in our small house concerned her. She began hanging out more with a new girlfriend from work more and more during her pregnancy. To me, I was happy for her. Her friend did not drink and was supportive. W had been sad that her older friends began to stray once my wife could not go out and party with them. The new girlfriend spent nearly everyday with W. At times I found it a bit odd, but I wanted to do my best to give my wife the independence with friends she was looking for. OW was married but was in the process of not being able to have children, so her marriage was rocky.

We also stopped seeing couples therapist in anticpation of our S arrival. Our S arrived on 8/14/10. Both of us were very happy. W's girlfriend was actually in the hospital with us, as W starting giving birth which was odd, but again I felt that this was my wife's new best friend giving support.

Shortly after the birth, W became very sad. Lots of crying. Staying in her bedroom with newborn S. Her mother and talked about post-pardum depression. A week later, my wife gave me a bomb. She was really unhappy. ILYBNILWY. She said that she had talked to her doc, and he told her not to make any major decisions. He believed post-pardum like the rest of us. I told myself it would get better and did everything I could to assist my wife with parenting. she also began seeing her own therapist.

W's girlfriend was working again while W was taking leave. She would come by on weekends. My wife complained that she felt locked in our home with the baby, so I encouraged her to get out. Still thinking post-pardum. My wife began spending more time with her girlfriend. Sometimes spending the night. Since girlfriend lived on the other side of town, I did not flinch when she would tell me S went to sleep and she would just spend the night on girlfriend's couch. This started to happen often. they began to do more and more things together and I was feeling left out emotionally. The Fall of 2010, I began considering the EA.

On 12/14/10, after a very small fight concerning movie tickets that I wanted to use to take my wife on a date (she wanted to take girlfriend), she dropped the big bomb. ILYBNILWY. She also told me that she had not returned to sleeping in our bed, because she did not want to. She did not want tany intemacy with me. For weeks, I had been encouraging her to our bed at night but had been patient while she nursed the baby at night. She said that she wanted space to think and left for her girlfriend's for a few nights.

***I am going to start a new post, because I know this is getting long.***

While away, I sent my W a very long thought out letter telling her how much I loved her and wanted to fight for our marriage. How much our marriage vows meant to me. I listed out things that I wanted to do to help with some of her concerns. Promised to give her space at home by going to work in the office. Promised to pick up more slack and be a good father to S. I told her that if we wanted to improve our marriage then we needed to make the commitment together. I suggested we go back to marriage counseling that we had stopped after the birth our our S. She agreed to go to therapist with me. In session told me that she was not sure if she had the strength to fight for us anymore. She was not in love with me. She wanted time to think. She said that she came to therapy this one time but was not ready to commit to more. Therapist recommended we at least work on co-parenting in case of failure. W agreed.

For the last month, I have read several books. Gottman. Fertel. Weiner-Davis. I am staying incredibly positive and acting like super husband/father around the house. Not one argument. No fights. When together, we get along great. She will however, disappear a few days at a time without warning. It crushes me, but I promised her that I would be patient while she discovered herself and her needs.

I began to suspect a PA on 1/16 after noticing some satin sleepwear in her overnight bag. She had been sleeping on girlfriends couch and had never slept in this stuff out our house. I then found more seductive lingerie in another bag in her closet that had never been in our home before. I began to look around and found a note in her bedside table written to her girlfriend and not delivered over the summer that explained how annoyed she was with couples therapy. she was stuck and only wanted to be with "you". this broke me. i began seeing a therapist on my own and introduced my concern. on 1/18, i logged into my wife's email. in a folder called "safe", i found 400 emails over the last 10 months between W and her girlfriend. PA was proven. It began in 3/2010 when wife was 4 months pregnant. Started with curiosities. OW married now but husband had know about her being gay for years. W was curious but committed to me. It took maybe a week before those concerns faded. First night was PG13. Two nights later, they had graphic sex in a park. There are hundreds of emails between them providing very graphic accounts of their adventures. Started in a park. Then at our house when I wasn't home. They escalated to being in love. They talked about how they would leave their husbands and live together with the baby forever. Girlfriend ended up leaving her husband over the summer. She moved into an apartment of her own. Wife now had a place to go to be intimate.

W and girlfriend spent everyday of the summer together while I was at work. Sex everyday. Very graphic sexual emails. In love. No cares. Embracing their new secret lesbian roles. After the baby, the OW spent less time over due to family in town and both were heart sick. Around the same time I got my first bomb, an email came from the OW that planned out an entire time line of an exit strategy. W replied that she was not comfortable with time and needed more time to figure things out with her therapist, but that she loved her and was looking forward to spending their life together. Leading up to the second bomb, W and OW spending every weekend together with S. Sometimes asking me if I would babysit S while they went off. I had no problems with that. I get quality time with baby and give the W a chance to get away without S.

I am now crushed. I still want to use the strategies provided here and by my therapist to let me wife know that I know about the PA. I am planning on writing a letter for myself to read in front of our original couples therapist. therapist agrees of importance of third party involvevement. have not asked W and can only hope she will agree. she really thinks I am in the dark about PA.

I can take all of the advice in the world that is out there about saving my marriage after a PA and am truly positive, but there is just no information out there for same sex PA. is my wife a lesbian and always has been? was it just an EA that got out of control and the excitement of PA took over? i can only imagine if my W is pushing the time line out and out that she has questions. we both come from strong and active families. her emails told over and over again how she did not want to hurt me or her mother.

what do i do? is there hope?

Slow down! An affair is an affair. It is the affair that takes away from the marriage that is the problem.

Provide more details about this exposure with couples therapist.

I say this because for you exposure is going to be very critical.

Just some of the things you will need to do before exposure.

1. Copy all e-mails.
2. Take a picture of letter from summer.
3. Gather as much information about OW. Family and friends.
4. Other posters will be on to add to this list.

Absolutely there is hope! The tactics we use to bust up any affair would be just as effective in your case. I would get the book Surviving an Affair and focus mainly on Plan A. The biggest weapon you have against the affair is exposure. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposure is ruinous. I would confront your wife about the affair and DEMAND that she end all contact with this woman for LIFE. Ask her to send her a no contact letter.

Here is what Dr Harley has said about lesbian affairs:
Here is the plan you should be in:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

How do you behave when she abuses you like this? Do you confront her or do you pretend like everything is ok? Because if it is the latter, you are giving her the impression that you don't care very much. For me, if my spouse disappeared for a few days like that, the locks would be changed and we would be sitting in front of a judge. I am curious why you would enable that kind of abuse? It doesnt' help your marriage one bit.

But no plan whatsoever to save your marriage? Co-parenting does not help your marriage one bit.

Thanks for the reply, Clark. I have printed out all of the emails and put in a safe place. I did this, however, just in case this ended up in court. I love wife and a custody battle is the last thing on my mind, but just in case in need proof of the PA, it is there. I have also scanned the letter from the summer.

OW is separated from husband since the PA started. As of this summer, she came out and told her family she was gay. Claims that her husband has known this for years, but they really wanted a baby. OW is telling W that this time line will be difficult, but will be great in the end. She knows it is hard, because she is half way through it.

Exposure for me is something that I am fearful of. Due to the sensitivity of the sexuality issues. I am afraid that by outing my wife out of the closet like this, there will be no coming back to me. To me, this is not a one month stand with a random guy. This is a gay woman causing my wife to explore her sexuality and desires to maybe be a lesbian.

Thanks Melody. She leaves days at a time due to the agreement that I would give her space right now. She still does not know that I know of A. I have been very supportive of her needs for space and told her that I will be patient while she decides if she is willing to work on the marriage. Once the A is out in the open, I am sure this will change.

As far as co-parenting, this was the option that our therapist recommended while W is in limbo. Since W is not sure if she has it in her and needs time, therapist said that even if split, this baby will be a bond between us forever and we need to learn how to be good co-parents... just in case.

You are headed to divorce now and she is less likely to come back to you if you DON'T expose. This affair is no more "sensitive" than any other affair. If you keep this affair secret, you are likely to lose your marriage. Affairs thrive on secrecy so keeping it a secret is to enable the affair; to contribute to the demise of your marriage.

You have nothing to lose. And everything to GAIN.

Yes, it should change. When a spouse "wants space" it is always so they can pursue an affair. I would not agree to this anymore.


Unfortunately, your therapist did not help you and your wife turn this around. And she probably didn't try to prevent your wife from "getting space" because she doesn't understand what this means. This is why marriage counselors are so destructive to marriages. They simply don't know what they are doing.

The exposure piece is really eating at me. I will be honest that I fear Dr. Harley's suggestions concerning exposure. Weiner-Davis has a very different view of exposure, as it could cause more harm then good. I am very conflicted with the advice given.

I also have concerns about the 400 pages of emails. When I come out to the wife about the A, I want to make sure that I do not divulge all of the email. If so, I am afraid that this avenue of the truth will quickly close.

Do I stay vague on how I know? Present vague examples that I could have gotten anywhere? If she denies, then bring out the heavier guns?

IF this can be saved, your best chance would come from exposing this affair wide and far to your wife's family and the OW's family. I would start with the OW's husband and give him your evidence. IF he has separated from his wife, this intel may be helpful in his divorce case.

Affairs are based on fantasies and when they are exposed to the world, it is ruinous to the affair. Dr Harley calls exposure the single most important step towards recovery:

here

Listen - your WW is on the verge of leaving, and is VERY likely to leave if you do nothing. What further harm are you talking about? At worst, she might leave sooner than expected, which can turn out to be a GOOD thing, as long drawn out situations like this can be absolute h*ll on a BS.

Exposure harms the affair, not the marriage. Exposure is the most important first step in saving a marriage. We have had many refugees from the DB board come here and save their marriages after having wasted valuable time on the DB board. MWD gives dreadful advice when it comes to saving marriages from affairs. She encourages people to ENABLE the affairs of their spouses.

I would not show her any emails. Just tell her you know all about her affair with the OW. DEMAND that she end contact today or this will lead to divorce.

Tell her don't need her admission to know the truth.

I've been doing DB since November and I've found much of what my coach advised me not to be true or helpful. They in no way ever advised me on how to bust the affair. I wish I had found this site sooner....

To my horror, I know people who have lingered away on the DB board for years while their spouses are in an affair.

They are told it is bad to expose an affair or that they should sit around while their spouse does something called "mid life crisis."

That is one of the most egregious acts of ENABLING I have ever seen.

Isn't Michele Weiner Davis a wayward herself? Didn't she have an affair? This is the only way I can comprehend her affair enabling tactics.

Another poster, SunnyD, had been posting on DB for months and was told to help hide the affair. She came here when her H finally left her, it was that bad.

We helped her expose the affair and IT WAS KILLED IN ONE WEEKEND! After months languishing on the DB board being told to ignore the affair. Her H has moved home since the affair was killed and they are very much involved in recovering their marriage.
If she had followed the DB advice, they would still be separated.

I don't understand how anyone can't see how destructive it is to help hide an affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy so it should be obvious that helping to hide them is to ENABLE THEM. Exposing them would damage or kill the affair.

Knowing my W, I know the stability issues that would come from me dropping that bomb. I fear the resentment would be so strong that it would be easier for her to move forward with the divorce than to reconcile with me after the bomb. She is very image conscious, and it would probably break her down completely. W and OW are on antidepressants right now. I just don't know the severity I could inflict.

W's mother and I are the two biggest factors that her and the OW have talked about breaking down. W's family is very involved, but W has been to therapy in the past for breaking away from her mother's control. If this bomb was dropped, it may cause a ton of hostility between the two. W's mother comes from a very affluent neighborhood and group of friends. Mother is also a big fan of mine over the years. I fear that the control issue after the bomb would almost push us both away further. It could also break their family. Maybe that is a plus, as I know W would not want that as well.