Thanks, Melody. I can do that. I was worried by all of the directness suggested. I can convey those thoughts you suggested without writing them down and with strength.

sparks, the difference between the Marriage Builders program and other programs is that it strives to create romantic love. That is the goal with these concepts and if followed, do actually work. I am not talking about peaceful co-existance, but about romantic, passionate love that can be measured in psychological tests. That is the hope that should be conveyed to your wife. She does not believe she can get the passion in her marriage that she gets in her affair. But she CAN. She needs that HOPE.

THAT is the plan you can offer her. Many of us have achieved this in our own marriages. Here is a good article about this aspect of Marriage Builders: Romantic Love: Is it a Realistic Goal for Marriage Therapy?

sparks, I just wonder whether you are letting the same-sex issue get in the way of seeing this as a real affair.

I don't think that if you had found out that your wife had been spending nights with a man you would have said nothing for this long, and I don't think you would be wondering how to ask her nicely to stop.

You might be thinking that if your wife has discovered that she prefers women, then there is nothing you can do. You might think that you cannot have a marriage anyway if she is gay. But none of is would have marriages if we let our spouses explore their attractions to other people.

When someone is married they do not lose the ability to be attracted to other people. What they must learn to do is not get close to other people. Your wife had an affair because she applied no boundaries to her behaviour. You must demand that she change her behaviour.

Don't be afraid of coming across as un-PC. Your wife is married to you and she is the mother of your son. She has no business exploring her sexuality given that she made a commitment to be faithful to you.

Sparks, I was you on Dec 19th. Dec 20th I told everyone my wife was having an affair. Now I have her back. Can I be any more clear?

Take the advice. IF she walks she was already gone.

I know guys like you because I am one. You would die for that little baby wouldn't you? Well we are asking something less - for him. He needs his parents to be together. Go get that for him.

You're on this forum because you value the advice, but you refuse to follow it. Do you see where that might frustrate a poster who is taking their personal time to try to help you? Do you not think the posters here have been in the pain you're in right now and might be trying to help you get out of it??

sparks, you are attempting to rework a proven method in order to make it more palatable for you, make it easier for you..stop acting out of fear!

What would you do if you weren't afraid?

Sparks I can see you online right now, what can we say to make you feel better?

Never. Threaten. Exposure.
JUST DO IT.

I understand you, bliss. Please do not take my questions as refusing to follow it. I just need to completely understand the steps. I really do appreciate your advice.

My ideas were more that certain methods might be worked towards certain personalities. Something that may work for one person may not work exactly for another. I was simply asking if this method would work under the proven guidelines. I now understand, loud and clear, that it does not.

Thanks for the thoughts, Reynolds. Just have a million things going through my head. About 400 pages of the most explicit sexual recaps with my wife and another person to begin with. Just a mess right now.

My marriage to my wife and love for her means so much that I am only trying to make sure the method for the end of this affair and recovery I chose is the correct one.

I get it I really do. I was there a month ago. You are terrified to make a mistake.

I will tell you sometimes you don't need a scalpel. Sometimes a hammer is what you need.

Exposure won't make her straight. But it will kill the affair portion of whats happening here.

You are correct, Sugarcane. I am letting the same sex issue get in the way of seeing the real affair. The affair itself is crushing enough. To discover that my wife may have fallen in love with another woman and believe that she is a lesbian si obviously concerning.

There is a piece to this puzzle that I missed in the original story that may have started all of these emotional feelings. When my wife was 17 she had an inappropriate relationship with her school counselor. She would often go over to this woman's house. Wife claims that it was more emotional than physical, although there was some physical. The counselor got fired. My wife got years of therapy. My wife never fully divulged this secret to me in our five years, but she did feel comfortable enough to tell the OW due to their emotional bond and the OW past with other women.

Does this make my wife a lesbian in hiding? I don't know.

I understand that the affair and betrayal comes before the same sex part always. If our marriage was strong, there would be no curiosities put into action.

Once I tell my wife that the affair ends now and there will be no contact with the OW from here on out, what if the next words out of her mouth are... i'm a lesbian? How do I respond to that? Tell her that the trauma from her high school age just stirred this up and she should ignore those feelings?

This is something that I could really use guidance on.

Without killing the affair you will never find out if shes straight/gay or anything else. She'll be your exwife.

I would scape $200 together and call Steve Hartley on this one.

I do know you have to kill the affair.

Try reading some of the other ones around who are afraid too. Find one from a few weeks back, I promise you if he exposed hes still here fighting. If he didn't the thread died, and I bet he packed his stuff and got an apartment.

Your decision. I have been here three months already seen it a bunch of times.

I'm one of those that was timid for months thinking I could halfway do this and my wife would just wake up from it. I wasn't in control and, by not standing up for myself, my marriage and my children, was being a doormat.

MelodyLane and maritalbliss are giving great advice and I urge you to put a stop to this.

Think of your child, sparks. How do you want him to see you when he's older? Give him something to respect. Stand up for him! They say that children model their own marriages off those of their parents. I suspect it's true.

Get fed up with this crap! You're one of the good guys! Stand up and say "Enough! I'm done with this and not going down without a fight!"

I suspect your wife will be dumbfounded that you're not going to keep letting her do this to you. As another poster said, she's not going to respect someone that doesn't stand up for himself.

You may have been a marginal husband, but you did nothing to justify your wife cheating on you.

Ask your wife's family for their help in breaking up this affair and getting this OW out of your lives. You'll need a support system for when it hits the fan. Having others in the fight with you will give you strength when you need it the most

I know you're in a bad place, sparks, and guess that you cannot imagine how your life turned out like this. Shoot, we're the same age. You've got to take a stand here for what is right.

Doing what you've been doing hasn't worked too well, has it?

I am ready to sit down and have the talk with her about the A and demand that she end it with a nc letter.

I am still pulled by the lesbian issue. I understand and affair is an affair. The fact that is was with a woman changes nothing when it comes to the betrayer and devastation that it has caused.

If she refuses to write the nc letter and tells me that she is simply a lesbian and leaves. I expose.

What is my response to her if she does in fact tell me that she is a lesbian and always has been and I can't change that?

In my mind, I think there may have been curiosity due to the trauma from her high school situation. She may have found this huge emotional connection with OW that made it easy and comfortable to explore the idea of being a lesbian. I just don't buy that it is completely true.

Her individual therapist from what I have read has given the whole "whatever makes you happy" suggestions. I have no idea what therapist would ever support an affair. This boggles my mind. I do think she is supportive of my wives exploring her lesbian feelings and the idea that she could spend the rest of her life with the OW.

So when the wife tells me "I am sorry. I am a lesbian.", how do I refute that? Do I tell her that this strong emotional affair has simply fed into that. The feelings she is having are not pure. The nature of an affair provides the chemical reactions to intensify the desires?

Does anybody out there have any experience with affairs of the same sex???

I do think you need to just follow the MB plan.
Plan A is to show her you are the best choice as a partner. It is to negotiate the end of her affair. To not love bust.

You can't control what the therapist does. You can't force your WW to see the errors of her life.

You can show her what a heck of a great person YOU are. What a great partner you could be.

Don't let the same sex affair throw you off your game.

Your WW may say she is really a lesbian and that is that. Okay. She can state that.

You keep to your plan though and show your good stuff in plan A.

You prepare to eventually go to plan B...where you are not available for anything and she lives her life as she kind of thinks she wants it to be and you don't engage in support of it. You simply create a future for yourself and your child.

That is probably where the real true issues unfurl for her.

You will have to consider this won't blow over any time soon and decide to have a plan...MB is awesome....and stick to it even when you feel put through the ringer with the situation. It can be your own personal lifeline.

You proceed and then see what happens.

Her individual therapist from what I have read has given the whole "whatever makes you happy" suggestions. I have no idea what therapist would ever support an affair.

Therapists are profit-driven entities as are all other businesses. Giving advice to folks to do "whatever makes you happy" goes a long way to establishing a return customer, wondering, for example, why acting like a skank-ho didn't REALLY make her happy like she thought it would.

How about this analogous statement:

Our local glazier from what I have read has given free BB guns to all the children in town. I have no idea what businessman would ever support an activity that drives more income.

Does that help?

Sparks,

I understand how you feel regarding the lesbian thing. I had a fianc� once that experimented with that. I didn�t feel betrayed in the same way as I would have if it had been a man. I wasn�t sure exactly how to feel at the time when she told me what she did. I didn�t really know how to react. I�m not saying it was right or wrong. I was simply in shock and didn�t know what to make of it.

But I also didn�t have the emotional aspect of it to deal with. My ex fianc� was curious and went to fulfill that curiosity. It was very bad in hindsight, but I didn�t feel threatened by it at the time (we never married, thankfully).

The emotional affair and the fact that she may suddenly decide she�s lesbian is certainly more problematic and a bigger hurdle to clear.

If she suddenly says she�s a lesbian, then I�m afraid there is little there you can actually do to fix the situation. That�s simply something you will never be able to fulfill as a man if she is one.

You may have to consider consulting a lawyer in order to secure your rights as a father.

Your reply: That's nice. Want a potato chip?

Your reply: So am I. Want a potato chip?

She is a wayward. Therefore she will say wayward things.

"I am a lesbian." is the same as saying "I love you, but I'm not in love with you."

She has allowed someone else to meet her ENs outside of her marriage. Sexual Fulfillment is only one need.

This talk of previous same-sex relationship has no bearing on the fact that your WS has broken her vows to you.

KILL THE AFFAIR!