My X craves contact with me. With my dh's help I am working on keeping contact to a minimum. For instance, the other night when XH brought ds10 home, there was stuff to carry in. I stayed out of site in the kitchen while dh helped with that.

I had to remind X (again) about some money he owes me for medical on ds. He responded back, 'ok, how much again? Oh, can you send me the lasagna recipe?' I responded back with a dollar amount and ignored the request for the lasagna recipe. Does he think we are pals or something--trading recipes?

The other night when I dropped ds off, X was in the driveway waiting on me. Came to my car window and started chatting....I listened politely for a few minutes and literally had to back out of the driveway saying, 'ok, gotta go', while he was still talking.

I understand the desire to have your cheating X fall down, grovel, apologize, beg for you back and then wham! you tell him 'so long sucker!!!!!' However, Fred is right....no contact IS turning him down, rejecting him...in dignity and without a word.

Thanks for the good advice, everyone. It DOES make sense. I have to say, one reason I quit posting on MB back in 2002 was because I thought MY situation was different. My WxH was different, and he didn't fit the mold of a cheater. Boy was I wrong. I thought I knew what was best for my situation, and as a result I probably made things worse for me. I have learned over the past years that mine was a textbook case. HE is no different than the other cheaters. Having come to that realization, I believe that y'all are right. He is a cheater looking for an opening for someone to fill a void he is feeling in the new M. I am sure statistically speaking, their M isn't a bed of roses. But by hearing your opinions, I can feel somewhat validated in knowing that they normally don't apologize, but that they do have regret. And knowing that they generally don't ever "trade-up" by most folks standards helps my self esteem, too. And he had done quite a number on my self esteem. I don't know why it is important to my self worth for HIM to recognize what he lost. But I understand I may never get that from him. I should let it go.....I am sure it is past time to do that. And no contact is the best way to go. The boys go to him this weekend, so I will put forth that plan then.

I haven't read through the entire thread so if my reply doesn't sound appropriate, please disregard it.

I would definitely refrain from contact with XH and try to rethink what "love" is to you. Maybe what you think of as love isn't at all! Obviously what you and XH wasn't good and wasn't the kind of love you need. Try to keep your focus in the present. When XH pops into your brain, use stop-thought process...change the subject mentally.

If he divorced you, married the OW, and is now trying to seek comfort with you again....then I'd say maybe he doesn't understand how to fill that void within himself, by himself. Not you, or the OW, or any other woman will ever be able to do that for him in a way where he'll act like a man with integrity, who can be respected, which will help him to feel happy with himself.

I loved my husband, and when he left, I felt a void, but I think it's different in that my void was the loss of all of my dreams with him, plans we shared, my foot on his at night. It wasn't that I was empty inside and needed someone to fill me. I had lonely moments sure, but I've been able to heal myself as the losses come and pass through. I wasn't always able to do that. I had to do a lot of internal work to get there. Maybe your ex will do that one day, instead of running from woman to woman, leaving trails of pain.

It's sad really, and horrible for the partners.

I understand your feelings of wanting to know if he ever regretted leaving you. I wonder if my husband will ever regret it too. I'm thinking not in my case. I never felt like he loved me for me. When he finally paid attention to me four years ago, I was at my worst. But then again, a lot of times he was not showing his best side either.

Enough about my ramblings, KC is right. It's time to bury the old marriage, and put your focus and energy into loving the one you're with. The grass grows where it's watered......

MJ, this is really insightful. It is helpful for me as I work toward healing from my divorce.

My WstbXH feels empty inside and has always felt that way. He tried to fill that emptiness with me and it didn't work. He tried to get fulfillment from having a lot of kids and that SURE didn't work out. He tried running and has finished several marathons, but something was still missing. Then he headed for the OW. By the time our marriage was over, I think he had decided that I was the cause of his empty feeling inside.

As much as he has hurt me, I know I'll get over it. I hope that the kids will recover, and I'm doing all I know to do to help them.

I don't know if my WstbXH will ever get past his issues to be a healthy, happy person. And, to be honest, after years and years of every kind of abuse except for physical, I'm glad he's not my problem.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2336925&page=1

Kirby, this is a link to an MB thread dealing with narcissism. Narcissists are, in essence, Attention Addicts, and behave like any other kind of addict. With narcissism, they are so empty on the inside that they spend their lives searching for people and things to fill them up on the outside, and never learn to look within for self-respect and self-validation.

You mentioned how empty your XWH seems, and I note that in your sig line it says that an MC feels XWH may have a personality disorder.

Take a look at this link and see what you think.

It's interesting to me that you were able to put that together so well with just the little bit that I have posted here. Yes, I believe that my WstbXH has NPD, but there is not a firm diagnosis.

The thread you linked was very interesting. I have never thought of NPD as being addicted to attention, but the parallels are really strong. One time early in the divorce process he said something to the effect that I had been a "witness" to most of the events of his adult life. I suspect that if no one's watching, then to him it didn't happen.

Kirby, one of the places I found wonderful information about personality disordered people was here. I was dealing with what a clinician strongly suggested was a wife with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). Reading up on PDI (Personality-Disordered Individuals) was a great help to my healing.

Some very good definitions and symptom listings can be found here.

Good luck.

Thanks, Fred. Those websites have lots of good information.

All of these sites interest me because I have been told by a counselor that my ex may have narcissistic personality disorder as well. At the very least OCD. He had to have the house perfect. Rarely ever was spontaneous. I was to be skinny, which I wasn't fat, but was medium. I recently lost weight (30 pounds) and have wondered if this has warranted his extra attention. OW has gained weight and the only time I have seen her in 8 years was at my son's pee wee football game 5 years ago. He has NEVEr ONCE mentioned her name to me in 8 years and she does not accompany him to his moms house where he usually keeps the boys every other weekend. It is like she doesn't exist. And he doesn't wear his wedding ring while he is back here on those weekends. STRANGE. Is it common for an XH not to ever mention OW (whom he married) to the BS?

Oh, yeah. He is DYING inside because he married her and she has gained, but you have lost weight and are looking GOOD.

If your WXH is a narcissist, he sees the woman he is with as being an extension of himself. That's the reason he gets so bent out of shape about the appearance of his current wife.


I don't know about if he marries her, but when my WstbXH started to tell me that he was in a "relationship" with another woman, he wouldn't confirm that it was the OW until I pressed him about it. I finally had to ask him specifically if it was "The Running Woman" before he would admit to it. I don't think he said her name at the time, and has not mentioned her again to me.

No problem - that's because I spent a lot of time looking into regarding XWH, and it all fit.

In his case, though, it didn't really manifest until we'd been together for some 10-12 years and he started climbing the corporate ladder and getting to be a huge bigshot in the workplace.

Dr. Drew Pinsky has a book on Acquired Narcissism - that's when it shows up later in life, after some big success hits like becoming a celebrity. Well, "regular" people can be celebrities too, within their own worlds, and XWH was completely unprepared to handle it - so he fell for it.

Go to the amazon.com site and search under Dr. Drew. You will see the book, and you can read some excerpts.

Oh wow..sooo explains a lot about my X too. I know he was humble when we met as teenagers. But all that changed when OW starting paying lots of attention to him. He all of a sudden became hyper aware of his good looks. Then all of my faults became abundently clear to him. He also had lots of mirror time, flexing his muscles. Lol!!!

yes, XW has undiagnosed Narcissistic PD. Refuses to follow doctor's orders after operations, doesn't have to, has a job where her credentials can't be questioned, teaching, and used to criticise me all the time, that was after she became a mom, and that allowed her to be better than males. . .

the kids were hers. . . she made them. .

ugh. . . i fell for it in the beginning because nothing was her fault. . . i believed the stories. . . and the entitlement at the time of divorce was unbelievable. . .

wiftty

Wiffty your XW and my XH could be long lost twins.

In my case WXH, OW, and I are all teachers. THEY work in the same school. I am in a different system. WXH told me when we were married and the A was in full swing that he was a "grown man who wasn't going to be questioned like a child" whenever i would ask where he was going, what time he was going to be home, etc. He was denying A but I found proof in form of love emails. Apparently they both were dissatisfied with their respective spouses. Anyway divorces were filed and the rest is history. Now, though, She doesn't come around to XIL'S when the boys visit him over there (mostly everytime they visit their dad it is at XIL house because they live near me and X lives an hour away. So she spends these weekends alone (so we assume). As stated before he has recently been trying to talk to me a lot on these weekends. I cannot figure out if he is just making conversation or if something is up. I have no desire to be "buddies" with him.

Btw this is his weekend. Gonna try the fullblown NC. Curious to see what he will do ...wonder if there will be contact initiated by him again.

Or not.

I'm cynical. I figure that if she had an A once, she'll do it again.

Hence my "so we assume".

In situations like this, all I can see is the referree blowing the whistle and us going to our own corners to heal and grow.