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Originally Posted by holdingontoit
Some of us do not want to hasten the result. Some of us want to remain married more than we want to be happy. Dr. Harley might well question why someone would want to remain UNhappily married. But there are those of us who do.

Mr. A needs to decide what he wants more.

That begs the question: why would such a person come on a marriage building website? If I don't want to alleviate my toothache, wouldn't I just stay home rather than hanging out in the dentist's waiting room spreading doom and gloom? "hey, folks, you can be like me too!! Miserable and depressed!"

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Mr. A needs to decide what he wants. If he wants a happy marriage, then ML is correct. He should apply the MB system to attempt to rebuild the romantic love in his marriage. This means he should Plan A for a limited period of time. To show his wife he can meet her needs and avoid love busters. Then, if she does not respond positively, he should Plan B.

I am going to suggest that it is going to take much more than that. He has been here for YEARS, after all. When do-it-yourself doesn't work, it might be time to hire a professional. The basic issue in his marriage is one of motivation and that is something the Harley's are very good at.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Oh man, I just mentioned the dance of Anger on markos' thread and came over and read this. I think we all agree on a lot more than what we disagree on. I 100% agree with the goal of restoring the love in the marriage, and I think it's easier, possible again, and more fun when folks stop the obvious LBs.

MrA, what are you doing differently since you've been back here? Any fun plans for the weekend? C'mon and show us how it's done smile


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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
I think we all agree on a lot more than what we disagree on. I 100% agree with the goal of restoring the love in the marriage, and I think it's easier, possible again, and more fun when folks stop the obvious LBs.

I agree! smile Hence Dr Harley's program for eliminating lovebusters.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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That begs the question: why would such a person come on a marriage building website? If I don't want to alleviate my toothache, wouldn't I just stay home rather than hanging out in the dentist's waiting room spreading doom and gloom? "hey, folks, you can be like me too!! Miserable and depressed!"

Hey Melody, this is very negative and unwelcoming. Things are not black or white in life, there are many varient shades of grey. Why should Mr Alias NOT come here to try and get help? He clearly wants to help his marriage, why are you being so militant and unwelcoming here? Aren't "AVERAGE PEOPLE" welcome on this MB board anymore?


I am going to suggest that it is going to take much more than that. He has been for for YEARS, after all. When do-it-yourself doesn't work, it might be time to hire a professional. The basic issue in his marriage is one of motivation and that is something the Harley's are very good at.

Melody, thanks for this, we agree that Harley's ideas are good ones. And this is his site for which you can push the counseling which is good I am sure. But you are starting to sound so negative yourself that you are turning people away from this site. Whatever you are going thru yourself you might want to back off on these folks trying to get some help or at least vent a little so as to have a little clearer view of thier marriages. MB helped me and I never had to go to the counseling though I purchased and read at least 3 of his books.





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Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
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Hey Melody, this is very negative and unwelcoming. Things are not black or white in life, there are many varient shades of grey. Why should Mr Alias NOT come here to try and get help? He clearly wants to help his marriage, why are you being so militant and unwelcoming here? Aren't "AVERAGE PEOPLE" welcome on this MB board anymore?

I agree that MrAlias wants help to save his marriage, otherwise he wouldn't be here! Which is why I asked hold why he would imagine any person would not. That is not "militant" and "unwelcoming." It is a valid question to hold's comment.

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Melody, thanks for this, we agree that Harley's ideas are good ones. And this is his site for which you can push the counseling which is good I am sure. But you are starting to sound so negative yourself that you are turning people away from this site. Whatever you are going thru yourself you might want to back off on these folks trying to get some help or at least vent a little so as to have a little clearer view of thier marriages. MB helped me and I never had to go to the counseling though I purchased and read at least 3 of his books.

Bubbles, I am starting to see a very bad pattern with you. I don't think you want people to get better. You want their marriages to stay sick and crippled. Those of us here with recovered marriages used many Marriage Builders resources, such as the books, counseling services, weekend programs, etc. So doesn't it only stand to reason that we would tell someone whose marriage has not improved in EIGHT YEARS how WE did it? Isn't that what they are here for? To find out how to have a great marriage?

So, why in the world would you call it "negative" when I recommend counseling to a board member who has been here for EIGHT YEARS and still has a bad marriage? crazy Why do you condemn board members for recommending books that saved their own marriages and accuse them of trying to "sell books?" Wouldn't it be MEAN to not refer newcomers to the very services that saved our own marriages?

I can only conclude that you don't want people to get better on a board that is freely provided by Dr Harley for that very purpose. And I think that is mean... and very "negative."



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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p.s. I can't seem to remember a time when you chastised a poster for recommending the book Dances with Anger [for "selling books"], so why is your only issue with recommending Marriage Builders resources?

Can you point to a single post where you ever chastised a poster for recommending that book?

Or is it ONLY Marriage Builders books that you take issue with?

Isn't it because you don't want people to get help here? You would rather they listen to your own "expertise."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I want people to get better and have happy marriages.
I love the Harley books. I have never ever said a single thing bad about them. I have not read "Dance of Anger" so I know nothing about it, are you reccomending I read it or something?

Why do you think I do not like the Harley books? I LOVE them. Are you nutz?

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Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
I want people to get better and have happy marriages.

I don't believe that you want people to get better when you call me "negative" for telling a man who has been here for EIGHT YEARS that he needs to try the counseling. You clearly have another agenda. [maybe handjobs? sick ]

But you didn't answer my question. I want to know why it would be "negative" to tell a man whose marriage is in trouble that he should try the counseling services here. Can you answer that?

Some of your objections lead me to believe that you are under the impression that posting on this board is a substitute for professional help only because it is free. Let me disabuse you of that notion. Chatting on a forum is no substitute for professional help. You and I are unqualified to save marriages. Our best thinking screwed up our marriages. That is why I continually refer to Dr Harley. He is the professional, not me, not you. But I don't think you realize that.

You have a lot of nerve to come on Dr Harley's board as a guest and chastise board members who recommend his services. That is very disrespectful.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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I love the Harley books and love the fact he is counseling people and helping them. I have never and would never think of chastising him. I chastise you a little maybe for unwittingly "turning people off" of his counseling services by your militant attitudes. Harley is great and so are the books, etc.

If you make this board seem unwelcoming, like with MA when you accused him of not wanting to save his marriage and then chastised him for being here 8 years without signing up for the counseling,, then who will want the counseling?

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"Chatting on a forum is no substitute for professional help. You and I are unqualified to save marriages."

I agree with you 100% on this fact!

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Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
I love the Harley books and love the fact he is counseling people and helping them. I have never and would never think of chastising him. I chastise you a little maybe for unwittengly "turning people off" of his counseling services by your militant attitudes. Harley is great and so are the books, etc.

Well, Bubbles, your approach turns me [and many others] off immensely, so I guess we are even. grin My goal is not to turn you on, though, but to help people have what I have: a great marriage. If you are "turned off" by that, it is your problem, not mine. smile

I would question the agenda of anyone who is "turned off" when we recommend the same services that saved our own marriages. We would be remiss if we didn't. I don't give a rip about the opinion of such people.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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OK. I hear ya.

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Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
I love the Harley books and love the fact he is counseling people and helping them. I have never and would never think of chastising him. I chastise you a little maybe for unwittingly "turning people off" of his counseling services by your militant attitudes. Harley is great and so are the books, etc.

If you make this board seem unwelcoming, like with MA when you accused him of not wanting to save his marriage and then chastised him for being here 8 years without signing up for the counseling,, then who will want the counseling?
Bubbles, I went back and re-read this thread and can find no post where MelodyLane is chastising Mr.A about not getting MB counseling. She is strongly urging that he avail himself of this counseling because it works.

Mr. A's wife is not in love with him. And YOU'RE telling him to direct her to give him hand jobs? doh2 That's going to help her to fall in love with him how??


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Again, I am not a professional. I hear ya. But it is good I probed at the problem by asking that since he answered me and now we know more about the problems and the fact it is not all because she does not enjoy sex. Narrowing down a problem is not usually such a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Mr. A's wife is not in love with him. And YOU'RE telling him to direct her to give him hand jobs? doh2 That's going to help her to fall in love with him how??

This is why it is obvious to me that Bubbles doesn't want people to get better. She has her own agenda that has nothing to do with Marriage Builders. She gives ridiculous "advice" ["hand jobs"] that has nothing to do with Marriage Builders and then attacks board members for suggesting legitimate MB resources. crazy


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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attacks board members for suggesting legitimate MB resources

Totally untrue.

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I am a human being. Yet I do not feel welcome here though I use the Harley books, tapes and have followed the advice in my own marriage.

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Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
attacks board members for suggesting legitimate MB resources

Totally untrue.

Yes, you do.

And I am still awaiting your answer to my question that I have asked three times. I want to know why it would be "negative" to tell a man whose marriage is in trouble [for EIGHT YEARS] that he should try the counseling services here.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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If I do not feel welcome here because some (possibly errant) words of advice I gave are attacked and clearly I am not allowed to give ANY advice, then more so of other posters. They will not feel welcome here either. You dont see Mr Alias coming back to post anytime soon. Just my observations...

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Originally Posted by Bubbles4U
I am a human being. Yet I do not feel welcome here though I use the Harley books, tapes and have followed the advice in my own marriage.

Yet you would deny that same thing to others.... crazy What kind of person does that? The books helped you but you chastise board members for recommending those same books?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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