Any movement on the moving back in to marital home front?

No movement on that front, but some interesting things that make me think she is still conflicted. She is in the process of signing up for benefits at her new job- she has added me to the dental, vision, etc. She has not changed her permanent address on any of her personal accounts. She just doesn't seem to want to make a clean break yet.

I don't know if you saw this in my thread, but I actually spoke with Dr. Harley on the radio show. He advised me to continue with Plan A for as long as I can, and to actually step up my efforts. He said that he advises female BS to lay back and let the WS come to them, but he advises male BS to actively pursue the WS and show them that they are willing to fight for the marriage.

This sort of changed my direction, as I had started to sort of fall back and let her come to me. I am now trying to follow Dr. Harley's advice and step up the Plan A. He says that I should be prepared for her to continue to cake-eat for some time, but that if the addiction can ever be broken, he feels that chances for recovery are great.

I don't know what will happen, but I do feel that the counseling, meds and church counseling are all huge steps for WS. I also can foresee these things causing tremendous conflict for her and for OM. WS told me two weeks ago that the Stake President (church leader she is meeting with) had given her several things to accomplish before her next meeting with him. She said "they are going to be very hard for me to do, but I am going to do them." The only one of these she has shared with me has to do with her reaching out to her father, who has had little to no contact with WS since the A. That will be a big one for her.

I also believe that eventually he will ask her to cease all contact with OM (if he hasn't already). Her next session is tonight, so we'll see.

How are the kids and you doing?

I know that Plan A for you must be tough. It might seem that you are almost there, but just short.

I do have a question. What are the conditions that your WS must meet in order for YOU to personally try to work Recovery?

We are doing okay. DD18 and DD15 are still resentful, especially DD15, who refuses to go to WS' house. DS10 and DD11 are very clingy. DD11 spends alot of time with my mother. DS10 told MIL the other day- "I think my mommy hates my daddy." MIL confronted WS about that. She said WS was very emotional and said she knows the children are suffering.

Plan A is tough, but the analogy I like best is the one about throwing rocks into a stream. That is how I am approaching this, just not expecting alot of apparent results, but believing that things are happening beneath the surface.

WS' best friend, who has been completely supportive of me & the kids, went over last week and had a heart-to-heart with WS. She told me she asked WS- "You say you have been unhappy for some time, so I have a question for you- are you happy now?" WS replied, "No, I am at the lowest point of my life." Friend says, "And how happy have you been since the A has been going on?" WS replied, "Not happy at all." Friend says- "You need to go home and at least give your husband a chance." WS says, "I know you're right." Friend said for the first time since this started, WS actually opened up to her and talked to her as a friend. (She has been avoiding her like the plague, as she knows that she is adamantly opposed to the A.) Friend told her that the counseling & the meds were not going to "fix" her, but they would hopefully allow her to think clearly and make good decisions. WS said, "That is what I am hoping for."

Dr. Harley says she is clearly addicted, and clearly knows that what she is doing is wrong. He also said that if she would admit her true feelings, she would say that she really wants to be in love with her husband and be married to the father of her children, but the pull of the addiction is controlling her right now.


My conditions for recovery are basically that WS will have to agree that she and I will follow MB principles- NC for life, EP's, POJA, total transparency, etc.

I don't think I can survive a false recovery, and I can't do this again.

Hey nice to see you helping new arrivals cope. I got told being pretty new and still in the fight adds credibility and I think thats true.

Had dinner with DD18 and DD15 last night. Invited WS to join us, and she accepted. She had her next counseling session with our church leader last night. I ran into her at the church just before her meeting and we were able to spend a few minutes together alone. She was very emotional. I told her that I really miss her. She cried. She is so conflicted. Talked to her briefly this morning and she said the session went well, but that's all she would say. All 4 kids are going over to her place tonight. This will be the first time DD15 has been over there in awhile. We'll see how it goes. All alone tonight- just got to keep on keeping on. Hope everyone has a good weekend.

WS agreed to join us for dinner at home on Monday night. Twice during dinner I notice her crying. I think the scene of the whole family around the dinner table was too much for her. DD18 & DD15 are still reluctant to go over to her apt. to visit, in fact DD15 flatly refuses. Last night when she came to pick up DD11 & DS10, she agreed to have dinner with us again. DD11 & DS10 initially refused to go home with her, but later changed their mind. This is the first time they have been reluctant to go. When she brought them home, DD11 came in the house, but not DS10. I went out to check on him and he was still in the car with WS. He was crying uncontrollably. WS waved me off, so I went back inside. DS10 came in a few minutes later, visibly upset. I went outside to talk with WS, and she said he is upset with her because she won't come home. She was also crying. I said "I'm sorry, but the children are suffering." She said, "I know, and it is my fault." I said "I am ready for you and I to fix this, and I am ready to forgive you and show you the kind of husband and father that I can be, whenever you are ready to make a commitment to me and our children." She said "I know" and continued to cry. I said "I am willing to help you in any way that you will let me." She said, "I know, but I don't feel good about asking you for help." I said, "You shouldn't feel unworthy of my help." She said, "What makes you think I feel that way." I said, "Because I have known you for 25 years, and I am looking in your eyes right now, and all I see is pain and guilt. Am I wrong?" She said, "No." I went inside and my little fellow was lying on his bed crying. I asked him what had happened, and he said he was talking to his mom about things and she said, "You know that I love you and your daddy very much." (She hasn't said that to me in a very long time, but that's another story.)
DS10 replies, "Well if you love us so much, why won't you come home?" WS says, "I don't know, but I am trying." I emailed her at work this morning and asked her how things were going- her reply, "It's okay, it's not great, but it's okay." How she can stand this, I will never know. I am hopeful that the fog will begin to lift. I have no expectations. I am not confident, or even optimistic. I am just hopeful.

There is nothing like looking at heartbreak in the eyes of a child to really cut through fog. I only hope your WW is able to see that.

I feel like crying, just thinking of your little guy crying on his bed.

Your wife is being very stubborn and she thinks she can do all this all by her self...one thing I learn in leadership skills is...you can not do it all yourself!!

I saw a sign that said..."If I had to do it all over again, I would have gotten HELP!!"

That was on a desk of a very powerful man.

He is his the apple of her eye. If anyone can cut through the fog, he can.

You are right, she is stubborn, but in the past few weeks, she has agreed to: (1) Counseling with our church leader, (2) Individual counseling for depression with a therapist, and (3) Anti-depressants (which she told me back in August that she would NEVER take.

Baby steps I know, but steps nonetheless.

What is going on? Let it out. Are you frustrated with the progress. How is your taker?

I am actually doing pretty well. Obviously, I would like for things to be moving more quickly, but she has taken some major steps, and the difference in her demeanor is astounding.

My taker is pretty well under control. I take him on a walk every night and let him out of his cage. I live out in the country, and I go for a long walk each night. I use this time to pray and cry and let my emotions run free, out of sight of my children. If I need to exercise my taker, that's when I do it.

I have gotten alot better about keeping him under control around WS. I guess a real turning point for me where that is concerned was my chat with Dr. Harley on the radio show. I was a little conflicted about whether to continue Plan A or proceed to a dark Plan B. He gave me very clear instructions to continue in Plan A for as long as I could keep it up. He said that when the BS is the husband, he advises them to actively pursue the WS and let them know that he is fighting for the relationship. When the BS is the wife, he advises them to step back and not pursue.

I am trying to be very good to WS, while still letting her know my boundaries.

TD,
As a FWH I can see the struggle your WW is going through yet at the same time it appears your consistency in meeting her needs and your never say die attitude appears to be working.
Keep up the good work. Your efforts will not be in vein.
Look at it as the extra mile/(s), the bottom of 9th and you're down by 10, 4th and 15 and you want to punt...no matter what, YOU NEVER QUIT.
Looking forward to hearing your success story.
I am,
Nit2WinHer

Total, how are your plan A efforts going? Is there any tweaking that you need to do? Is there anything that you need help with? Any way to also use that stick of plan A? Strike while the iron is hot.

Scotty, Plan A seems to be going reasonably well. Not sure what else I can do relative to the stick. I am open to suggestions.

What are your boundaries? Is she crossing them?

The only real boundary she is crossing is that she is still in contact with OM, but not much I can do about that.

What is the OM sitch?

I'm thinking you maybe need to reevaluate targets for Exposure again.

Have you tried to full court press wooing?

I'm trying to find what Harley recommends you to be wooing amount?