Harmony, you're a bit, uh, challenging today, aren't you? You remind me of my DDs.

I did see the doctor about the foot cramps and had blood tests done to rule out a chemical cause (low potassium, chiefly). I think it's dehydration and I'm going to blame the anti-depressant I'm taking. It's known to cause an extremely dry mouth; it makes sense that it would dehydrate other areas. Guess I'll try to drink a big glass of water at bedtime and keep well-hydrated during the day. (That's not so easy as a teacher--my restroom breaks are few and far between!)

Last weekend, I went to the mall. I bought 2 new pairs of pants and a new top. I got my hair cut in a slightly different style. Sunday night I ordered 2 new tops and a pair of shoes; they arrived yesterday. I am trying to treat myself but I'll also confess: I need new clothes because most of my old clothes are too darned big.

Tonight I'm taking DS to our favorite Mexican restaurant.

See, I am trying. Yesterday was just a low day, especially after I received more divorce paperwork from my attorney. I now have a court date for child support and our parenting plan. I still don't want any of this at all.

I'm off to read the goddess thread. Thanks for bumping it for me!

First of all, let me say that I am sick. Cough, snottiness, sneezing, aches and pains, low-grade fever, headache from sinus pressure. I feel terrible.

Now, confession time. I broke Plan B by going to the bowling alley today. My counselor suggested that I go for my son's sake. Of course, lousy Plan B'er that I am, I leaped on that and did it mostly for my own sake. It did make me feel better, not worse, so I'm not sure if I'm sorry I did it.

Before I go on with my story about talking to WH at the bowling alley, it's important to interject with this bit of news. Last week (was it only just a week ago?) I found out that my DD had separated from her husband. They've had trouble for a few months--her H suddenly has serious rage issues. The night they separated he actually hit her (with the full force of his strength) on her upper arm. The police were called; he was escorted from the home. She hasn't seen him since and has only spoken to him once. She is, quite understandably, devastated (Is there a stronger word than that? It seems to be an understatement.)

And, now, back to the story:

Because I was so clearly feeling unwell, WH offered me his seat at the bowling alley--it was way crowded with others watching their kids bowl. We discussed how DS is doing and have a nice we-look-like-we're-happily-married-but-we're-not conversation going on. I ask when he's going to bring DS home tonight (after a visit to younger DD's house). He says that he doesn't know--between 6 and 8 o'clock, and mentions that older DD will be there, too.

I asked him if he knew that older DD was going through a real hard time. He said that he had heard and asked if her H had come home yet. When I told him that he hadn't and that they were probably headed for divorce, WH got a look of absolute guilt on his face. He was so shame-faced that I was surprised. All I've heard from him (on the day I found out about it) about our divorce is that it's for the best--in a manner that shows withdrawl from me and indifference about his actions. His face didn't match what I've heard before. It was quite a revelation.

Later, I told him that DS's grades are in the toilet again. He was shocked--said that DS always tells him that everything is going great. That's what he always tells me, too, I told him. WH wanted to know how long I've known (since I checked online last night) and then WH wanted to know what the reason is.

Really. He has to ask?

I told him that I'm not sure, but DS told one of his teachers that it was because of learning about our divorce.

WH gets another guilty look.

WH said, "That's just an excuse."

I said it must be bothering him if he told someone about it, because DS has only told about 3 people about the problems at home. I also said that most of the missing work occurred during the first week or ten days after he had heard about the divorce.

WH and his guilty look get up and pace back and forth, back and forth. DS comes over to eat some pizza and says he's just about given up on the current game. WH says, "Just like your schoolwork?"

DS looks guilty, then gets up to go bowl and stays away for a while. WH remains guilty-looking for the rest of the time I'm there.

I finally reach the point where I'm feeling so bad that I have to leave and tell DS good-bye. WH tells me good-bye and adds that he hopes I feel better soon. I tell DS to tell the girls "Hi" and WH says "Okay!".

It was surreal. I definitely fed into WH's cake-eating today but I also managed to see some guilt on his face which hasn't been there since the first month after D-Day.

Be kind.

Is guilt better than withdrawl and indifference? What does it mean of he's guilty and ashamed?

Back to Plan B. I promise.

DS just returned home from his outing with WH. As soon as their 75 minute drive began, WH told DS that using the divorce for an excuse for his poor grades was a lie. He said the divorce had nothing to do with it. DS protested that it did and got a 15 minute lecture on how he (DS) was going to end up having nothing in life because he was too lazy to do his work. He was also told he had no integrity because he had been saying he was getting his work done.

DS wanted to spout off that a person who was cheating on his wife had no business talking about integrity, but was fearful of WH's reaction, so he just took it.

The rest of the day, according to DS, was uneventful.

H&G, what did this break in plan B give you? Think about that. I can guarantee that it now sent you into a tailspin. You will want to see your WH again. And if I have learned anything else, the contact you have had with your WH has actually made the A STRONGER. That is one of the main reasons I maintain NC with my WH. I don't want to feed the A.

Your WH is like a drug to you and after you get over your "high" you are going to go really low. It is even more important that you take care of yourself and stay as dark as possible.

Yes, do protect yourself right now.

And it is sad that the ws was not able to take responsibility for how his children are doing. Let him stew now on that and go dark.

Meanwhile YOU interject and let ds know it's ok to show his feelings and to open up to YOU about it. That's what I did with my ds. They have deep feelings and need to process things properly. You just be there for him!

Go dark. Let the affairees stew in their own juices. I do think the one good thing which came from the limited contact was him learning how his affair has hurt his son emotionally and how it affected his school performance.

Go very very dark now. Let that bit of reality sink into the ws. Now is about you! Now is about how you're going to help ds bring up his grades. We went thru this very thing about 2 months ago with my ds and the revelation of his dad (my xwh) getting yet another divorce (from the ow) and fears of ds not being able to see his half sister (6 yrs old) anymore.

Now..what else positive are you going to do for yourself and the kids this weekend?

It sounds like you honestly feel you can penetrate the fog with a lot of these things you are saying/emailing to your WH that you have been posting about for awhile now.

It's not worth it...it's not going to work. What your WH said to your DS on the way home is evidence of that ~ he probably felt guilty for all of two minutes before his foggy justifications kicked in.

Scotty is right, contact just fuels the affair, it doesn't help you in any way shape or form...

I know b/c I was there with a crazy xwh. Every time you contact him it bonds "them vs. you". It's nuts, but that is what happens.

When you leave them alone, they fall apart. I would have fought for my M longer than I did, but when I found out the ow was pregnant, to me it was time to permanently check out of it, it'd gone too far.

Sadly, I was so emotionally checked out by then (one year later) that I didn't know they were fighting like cats and dogs then. At 1.5 years into his marriage to the ow, my xh confided to me (when he showed me the new home he had built, meanwhile I was in financial ruin)and said he wished he could have gone back home to my son and I.

I to this day, remain in a sort of plan B. But when you do let go, they begin fighing amongst themselves. You see, the glue that binds them is stubborness, inability to admit wrongdoings, and that crazy addiction to the affair feeling (the hormones going off in their heads).

When you remove the "them vs. you" feeling, they don't bond as much. There are problems, real ones, and they have to cope with them. And usually one blames the other for the imperfect world that has suddenly set in "affairland". It helps things crumble faster, plus the ws can't get the fix on their bs, thus they miss us more.

In a brief moment, after our D, on a lapse from my plan B (he called and I didn't have anybody else to pick up my ds and he said he was leaving in five minutes), after 1.5 years of basically a very dark plan B followed by our D (only to see me in court, or way way off on other side of soccer field from my son) was the confession he made. I was meeting him at an address near my son's school and didn't know what it was. It was the address for his new home. And when I saw it being built I almost puked right there. But then he took me to the door (I refused to go in)and told me his regret, how they'd been fighting, and how he missed me. He actually asked me out to dinner.

My response was "well you are now MARRIED. I don't date married guys."

Shook me up for over 2 weeks and I had to go dark again permenently.

I've taken my AD and an anti-histamine so I'm pretty groggy. I hope these responses are coherent.

Scotty, considering how long it took for me to get to Plan B, I think only one break in 3 weeks and only 2 breaks in 6 weeks is somewhat miraculous. I don't feel I'm going to go into a tailspin. I don't feel I really did anything to stop or promote the affair. I did let him see a very strong H&G, so that has to be good for me, whether it affects him or not.

Peachy, I'm letting him stew. I do try to encourage DS to talk about what he's feeling and to let his dad know. DS can't quite figure out how to let his dad know what he's feeling without being disrespectful. DS doesn't want to be disrespectful so he's continually struggling with his relationship with his dad.

SusieQ--wow, you've really hurt me.
Susie, I may be the biggest damn fool ever, but I'm doing my best. The most hurtful part of what you've written is "that you have been posting about for a while now". I feel like you've been scoffing at what I've done. I don't really think I can do much, if anything, about WH while he's in the fantasy land of his affair. Yet, I do have hopes and sometimes ramble on here, trying to find a reason to go on. You've taken that away from me now. If you feel that way then surely others do, too.

I said I was going back to plan b and I meant it.

That is not my posting style, especially not to a BS...

I guess my thinking is you need to examine why you have stuggled with Plan B for a while now ~ my feeling is a good part of it is that you feel you can get through to him...based on the communications you have been relaying to us. I am hoping when you understand it doesn't work that way, it will help you stay dark.

I do wish you Plan B success and I am sorry if what I posted seemed hurtful. That wasn't the intent.

Peachy, thank you for this explanation and example. I did know before that it would only make the affair stronger, but I had forgotten why. Yesterday, it just seemed like a good thing to see him. For me. I will admit I did it for me. I'm a great teacher, but a poor student. This plan b stuff is so counter-intuitive to what I want that I do need explanation and examples to help me stay the course. Merely telling me the rule does not seem to suffice.

I'm still not down because I did see him, except for realizing that I've made him stronger in the affair. Definitely my bad.

I didn't see him this morning when he came to take DS to day 2 of the bowling tournament. I was sacked out on the couch. Having taken Benedryl at 5, I was sleeping it off. I did hear him come to the door and ask DS if I was around. DS told him I was resting, and then they left.

I won't see him when he returns DS. I'm back to total blackout.

Thanks for the apology, Susie. I'm sure, now, that I read too much into it. I can only offer my illness and the effects of Benedryl as an excuse for that.

I am back in plan b.

So, your breaking Plan B has given your WH a lovely chance to gaslight your son.


And your son has learned that he just has to swallow it whole. So he did. Your WH put his bootheel on that boy's face and ground the lies right into him.

I am sorry to be so harsh but your son should be protected from this, even if you aren't willing to protect yourself.

What was your response to DS when he told you this??

This is another reason why you do NOT break Plan B. Your WH is certainly feeling very very smug and self-satisfied right now. Your breaking Plan B gave him the perfect opportunity to gaslight both you AND your son, and to blame both you AND your son for the problems HE is causing.

He got off scott-free, took no responsibility, and dumped the whole mess right back on you. Now you and DS are suffering through a whole load of misery AGAIN will WH has happily shed himself of any guilt or responsibility.

HG, you seem to think - or hope - that by breaking Plan B, this will get back to WH's girlfriend and cause lots of trouble and uproar in their relationship. You seem to think this is worth it.

You say you saw "guilt" on your WH's face and that, again, that was worth breaking Plan B.

Did you see the look on your DS's face when he came back from his visit with Daddy Dearest? When he told you what that man had said to him?

Still think it's worth it?

Again, sorry to be so harsh but you are missing the whole point here. Stay OUT of WH's nasty little affair. It does not need any help from you to self-destruct. Your #1 priority should be to protect yourself and protect your DS from any more emotional abuse from from a cheating spouse and a cheating father. And every time you break Plan B, you are only allowing further abuse.

Hope - you still don't get it. When WH sees "a very strong H&G" all he sees is, "Well! She's doing just fine. My walking out didn't do her any damage. I really haven't done anything wrong, so it won't hurt to keep on doing it. And hey - if this thing with OW doesn't work out, maybe H&G will just keep on waiting for me since she's still willing to see me and talk to me and looks Very Strong. Wow, I still DO have the best of both worlds!"

This is why virtually all WS want to be "friends" with their Betrayed Spouses.

He should not see you strong (he'll think the whole situation is okay with you).

He should not see you weak (that's unattractive).

He should not see you AT ALL (because then he'll wonder and be confused and complain to his mistress about Not Seeing His Wife).

DS can state his truth openly and clearly without being rude or disrespectful. You must teach him that, because his father is only going to teach him that truth IS disrespectful if it's something the person doesn't want to hear. That is not true and I'm sure you dont' want your son gaslighted into believing that.

We do not want to take hope away from you, but as is often said around here - Hope Is Not A Plan. And what you are doing, H&G, is seeing what you want to see and Hoping it's real.

It's not. We are just trying to prevent even more emotional abuse for you and your DS. You are both walking right into it but sometimes a person is too close to the fire to see the danger. That's why we are trying to warn you, because we understand that right now you are blind to it.

My response was to tell DS that we both know that his father is not the same person he was a few months ago--that he can't face the facts that he has been less than honorable about his affair--that he thinks everyone will "come around" to accept his fogged-up notions. I told DS that he should refute what his father says and gave him some words with which to do this.

I have to be very careful, though. I do not want it to appear that I am coaching my son to hate or be disrespectful of his father. I validate his feelings but I can't put pressure on him to hammer WH's pelt to the wall with his own words and misguided statements. It's tempting, but not appropriate.

Point made and taken. DS is 15, though, and this was just another example of what he already knows--his father doesn't care about him as much as he cares about OW and will defend OW against all reason. I can't keep DS away from WH and something of this sort always happens when they're together. DS is balking at every turn and WH doesn't understand how DS can hate the OW. WH told DS that "she's nice" and "you'll like her". During the week when I found out about the divorce, I implored WH to be more sensitive to DS's feelings. I could have and should have saved my breath--there has been no real change.

About the 'guilt' that I saw--it was real, it was palpable. Unfortunately, in the hour between that time and the time when WH spoke to DS, WH appears to have justified and rationalized his defenses to the evidence that filing for divorce had had an adverse effect on anyone.

I can and will do Plan B, but I'm unable to protect DS from his wayward father. I'll speak to WH's father and see if he can offer any advice to his son about the effect of his words and actions.

This makes a ton of sense. I really am not stupid, but do need to have things e-x-p-l-a-i-n-e-d to me about Plan B. I'm only seeing it from my side of the fence and now I see why that's so wrong.

Thanks.

Thanks for understanding that I'm not trying to be obstinate but that I am blind to the damage I'm doing. It's so hard, but I'm really trying to do the best that I can.

I will do better. Thanks for the advice and 2x4's. I needed them.

From Pep's thread "Love Bank Units During Plan B":

This really spoke to me, as it has been the cause of many doubts lately. Sometimes I can't help but think, "How can I ever forgive him for what he's done? He shows no remorse for the pain he's caused me, lied to me when sometimes the truth would have served as well as the lie, and been so cold and callous about his choices and in his treatment of me."

And then I quash those thoughts because I want to love the man I was married to for 32 years--the funny, warm man who would sing silly songs when he was happy. And I try like the dickens to hang on to what I felt before.

But I feel that slipping away, and it saddens me greatly. If I can't hang onto the love, then there's no reason to hang on at all. Or is this just a temporary phenomenon, where the love is in the bank, waiting for when it's needed?

H&G:

You are dealing with a WAYWARD. He is no longer that H you knew for 32 years.

He thinks so. But he isn't.

Talk more to your DS. He KNOWS there is something terribly wrong in this world. He just gets blasted by his father every time he discusses it.

(((H&G)))

SFB