I'm a returning BW with a new handle and a new thread. I found out last week (on my BD) that WH had filed for divorce.

I saw my lawyer yesterday. I won't go into details about what we're going to do, but my lawyer said something interesting. He said that the complaint that was filed by WH was very interesting to him because it: 1) didn't contain a proposed split of marital assets (and these complaints usually do), and 2) didn't specify grounds in the fault-based complaint.

Lawyer said it was like they had fired a shot over the bow to provoke a war but didn't try to hit the boat.

Unfortunately, I'm compelled to answer or receive a summary judgment of divorce.

WS is with OW this weekend. (I know this because he's not available to be with DS).

My Plan B and an email I sent about divorce seems to have really ticked WH off.

My Plan B hasn't been very dark during the past week, but it will be from now on. He's the leader of the enemy camp now. But I don't know if it will matter at all to WH. I've been full of despair this week. The only thing that has made me feel better is the half-hearted complaint he filed. But maybe it's all he had to do to provoke a response so that's all he did do. My head swims.

When do I finally throw in the towel? I have no doubt that the affair will end someday. I just don't know if I'm strong enough to wait that long.

Have you exposed? Can you give a little history?

Yes, exposed. Yes, Plan A, then small Plan B, then Plan A, and now Plan B since shortly before the holidays. (I'm the worst Plan B'er ever.)

We've been married more than 3 decades and have four children (3 grown, 1 DS at home).

The PA began in June '10; I found out in August. He moved out at the end of the next month. OW lives a state and 7.5 hours away.

I'm the same as I was in my previous thread--I don't know what to do, but recognize now that there are no magic words or actions by me that will end his affair.

Previous posters on my thread were: Scotty, LG, Peachy, Harmony, and HTLD. Others, too--sorry but I can't name them all.

did you have a different name because this is the only thread available with your name that i can find?

Hey H I recognize you just fine and I am certain that other posters who have been reading for a while will too.

I would say that you should just stick to a deep dark Plan B for a while and make plans when you are not thinking about them emotionally.

Don't make this an easy D and make sure that you protect yourself. He most likely filed to show OW his "commitment." But we won't even think about that. All you need to focus on is getting as dark as possible.

I did wonder where you had run off to. Were you worried about WH finding your thread?

Just do a very dark plan B while your WH does the D.
Dark, only having your attorney asking for what you want for you in a leisurely manner (within guidelines of needed time frames to respond).
Dark, cause......now you know that dark really is the way to go. You live, you learn!

Don't wonder where it will all end up just know that
nothing is written in stone.

Your WH is still caught up in his fantasy. Just stay dark and see with the passage of time what happens with it all.

Sorry you have felt the despair. It is just a given in the situation. We all have felt it and still do here and there.

Human beings are all so much the same....you are human.

Can someone give me a clue? Email or FB? I'm wracking my brain trying to figure this out. It hurts.

PM, I sent you a FB message.

Hey there - I'm glad you are back. BTW, a similar thing happened to me. (X)WH moved out, I went to 100% dark Plan B, and he filed shortly thereafter. I sometimes think he did that at least in part to force me to contact him, either for legal reasons or because I'd be so upset by the divorce petition that I'd be hysterical and call him.

Never happened. WS should be careful what they wish for - they may get it.

Your WH may be doing the same thing. He is still trying to push your buttons and provoke a reaction. If you gave him a Plan B letter, then he knows what he has to do if he wants to speak to you again. Otherwise, maintain radio silence.

Glad you are back.

Thanks for the re-welcome, everyone. I've spent the afternoon visiting with my best friend from seventh grade onward. We can always pick up right where we left off.

Yes, Scotty, I was afraid that he might have found the thread, since I had given him "HNHN". Or maybe I was just in a full blown panic since learning of the divorce complaint. I don't think I really had a problem--I asked the mods to "bury" the thread but instead they deleted it. They have every right to do so, but it makes me sad that they did. I will miss being able to go back and reread my thread and see that I have made progress.

PrincessMeggy, know me yet? Roroma, this is a new name. Mulan, I'm so glad you're here.

My DS is having a hard time dealing with his father filing for divorce. DS told Wh he would only spend the night with him if he refrained from contacting OW while he was there. Wh refused, and so DS refused to spend the night. Gutsy guy, my DS.

Every night I pray for 3 things to happen: that I'm in my WH's dreams and he awakens thinking of me in a positive way, that my children's reaction to his poor choices affects him, and that WH become impotent. If God grants me any of these, I'll be happy.

Got it. Thanks Scotty!

Does WH have an attorney? Sounds like a DIY (do-it-yourself) petition by someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

A rule of thumb in litigation is that if you don't ASK for it (as in the pleading) you don't get it. However, if he has an attorney could be that they just wanted to get it on file to set the clock ticking with the thought to amend it later.

Sounds like your lawyer is on it though.

(((H&G)))

Yes, he does have an attorney. That's what makes it sort of strange. I wonder if OW pressured him so hard to do this that he did a rush job. He has none of our records--I have them all. He even had to lie to me to get my SS# so he could file. I don't think I'll ever forgive him for that one...

H&G, I was advise to pray for angels to appear in front of WH and OW. Even in the room where they sleep. Imagine if THAT happened?

I can ASSURE you that your WH dreams about you. You dream about him right? It is hard to erase 3 decades of memories and your mind tries to make sense of it all. Even the wayward mind can't get rid of you that easily.

Just keep dark and keep your plans moving forward.

Did you come up with a new hobby to start?

Yes this! My DH told me after he came home that he couldn't NOT think about me. When you live with someone that long, it doesn't all just go away with a wish (or even a divorce filing).

As long as the angels had flaming swords of justice, I'd think it would be cool!

I only remember one dream I had about him, but I'm sure I've dreamed about him more than that. I added that request to my prayer list after I read that his true feelings about his choices were locked away in his subconscious because he can't face what he's done. Since the subconscious rules our dreamworlds, it seemed like a simple request for God to handle.

Well, I spent 20+ hours last weekend reading about my state's divorce laws but my attorney assured me he's got that covered, so I'm still in search of a new hobby. I am reading a lot, so I've got something to soothe my frantic mind. And I'm back at work, teaching my socks off. I'm fairly busy all of the time.

I went to the doctor on Wednesday and he's increased my dose of AD and renewed my sleeping pill subscription. I'm good to go!
[/quote]

Thank you for this, PrincessMeggy. It gives me a great deal of comfort.

I was only away from here for 5 days, but I've missed the positive help given to me by everyone here. I had to come back to get more of this from you all. Thanks so much!

Dear Lord. I opened my email to find legal stuff from my lawyer, sent for my approval. I don't approve of doing this, at all, but I have to.

My stomach hurts. I'm taking my sleeping pill and escaping to bed.

So glad to read this! Scot, I too send angels to to my WH & OW, God has a whole army of them you know!

H&G, LOVE your request for impotenence...unfortunatly for us BWs there's VIAGRA!! oh yeah, and CIALIS!! Damn those pharmacutical companies. They can make a pill to end impotenence but not a pill to end infidelity.

Mitzie, in order to get Viagra, he'll at least have to go see a doctor. He's loathe to do that but I guess for her he'd go to an emergency clinic. ;( Maybe the doctor will have him committed for a mental evaluation.....;)

Reading, I didn't mean to skip your post yesterday, but somehow I did. Thanks for your kind words. Yes, I'm human but I wonder about my WH. I think he's become inhuman.

Maybe it's because my doctor doubled my anti-depressants, but I can't find any love for my WH in my heart today. Or maybe it's just because I know he's with OW this weekend. Or, most probably, because of his action of filing a complaint for divorce.

No matter the reason, it makes me sad. I thought I could/would love him forever. He's really knocked that out of me.

Guess it will make being truly dark in Plan B a snap, though. I don't want to see him or speak to him. And, believe me, that's definitely something new.

There have even been some posters that have remained in Plan B even AFTER a D. It's really up to how you feel at the time.

So sorry you're going through this. Listen to your lawyer and whatever advice he gives. Tell him you want him to wait until the last minute to file anything since you wish to drag this out.

Good luck, eggin lady.

I guess I won't know until then but now I feel like "what's the point". I keep trying to do the math (70% of all affairs end...) but I just don't see this ending. He's SO into her, and so NOT into me. It does make Plan B easy, though.

Thanks, HTLD. I did tell my lawyer that--I just hope he listens. I'm glad you figured out who I am; I've valued your advice in the past.

It is just a rollercoaster ride.
You will definitely have ups and downs of what you feel towards him.
That is why sticking to a plan is great.

The point of sticking in plan B, even when you don't see the point is to stay out of the drama of the affair. However long it lasts or doesn't last. You are out of the situation and tending to yourself.

Thanks, reading. I spoke to my sister tonight and she, too, said it will be a rollercoaster ride. She also thinks the increase in the AD dosage is a big blame for the blah feeling I have.

Please keep reminding me that I do need to stay out of the drama. I need to lick my wounds and take care of me.

Just want to add: I spoke to my in-laws this evening. They care about me and support me in all that I do. I love them like they are my own parents. They may someday accept what their son has done because they love him, but I don't think OW will ever be able to be close to them or accepted by them. I will forever be the mother of their grandchildren to them and they value me for that (and lots of other reasons, too).

H&G,
You are lucky to have IL that support you and KNOW what their son is doing is WRONG.

My FIL(WH father) screamed at me on the phone and told me neither he NOR his wife (WH MOTHER)were not involved in our marriage and they certainly were NOT going to be involved in their son's divorce! (divorce? divorce? who said anything about a divorce? WH? who knows). That was the last time I spoke to either of them, two days after Thanksgiving. They have since gone to their winter home in FLA, didn't say goodbye to either of their grandchildren here let alone me. Only spoke to thier son 2xs since Thanksgiving(once was to give him food from the cleaned out fridge & say goodbye). Nice people, huh?

I think I should have PLAN B'd them 20 years ago!

(raises hand)

Sometimes it's the only way.

Mitzie, I know how fortunate I am to have my in-laws. They have always treated me like one of their daughters. My father-in-law has made a point of telling me a few times (before WH went wayward) what a great mother I've been to his grandchildren and that their successes in life are due to the great parenting job that I did. I'll love my in-laws forever.

Mulan, why is maintaining Plan B after a divorce sometimes the only way? Still too hurt and angry to see him? Since my WH has initiated a divorce, I imagine I would feel that way. I thought I could divorce him when I knew I was out of love with him and no longer wanted to reconcile. He has taken that option away from me.

I'm having a difficult day. WH is with OW. It's her birthday. I wonder what she got--I got a divorce complaint filed on my birthday. I know I'm in Plan B and won't call him, but I'm having a bad day. If someone walked up behind me and said "Boo!", I'd jump out of my skin.

I hate wayturds.

I'm sorry you are having a bad day. I know days like today feel overwhelming and like you won't make it, but you will. And you will come out stronger and better for it. I do feel for you, though. Just take it a minute at a time....

Thanks, StillFighting. I'm still struggling, but I'm nearly at the end of my workday. I think I'll make it without losing it in front of my class. Too much stress makes teaching impossible. I've managed to get by today and hope tomorrow will be brighter.

It is so hard to put on a happy face when all you want to do is crawl in a hole and hide. I work at a psychiatric unit and always felt so guilty b/c my life was so good compared to my patients' lives. Now I feel like I'm worse off than them sometimes. It's so hard to help them with their problems when all I really want to say is, "You think you've got it rough? Let me tell you about my husband who walked out on me and our baby?!"
I'm glad you are almost through the day. It may be raining today, but the sun is gonna shine tomorrow! I've always liked that saying.

Oh H&G, I KNOW how you feel. And, having done my stupid slip in Plan B, I actually KNOW what my WH did for OW on her Bday and KNOWING IS WORSE.

Just remember what you are doing and WHY you are doing it and stay on track. You'll get to feel better and better.

You're right--knowing would be worse, much worse. {{{Scotty}}}It's been a day of too many mind movies for me.

I'm staying on track. DS bowls in a tournament this weekend. WH can go on one day and I'll go on the other. Just gotta get DS to tell his dad to pick which day.

NOPE. What you need to do is get your IMs to TELL WH which day. And if you see WHs car, you do what? What if he comes in while you are there? I KNOW that people say that you are not going to go into hiding. Thing is, Plan B IS about hiding. Especially at the beginning of it. I had to make sure that WH didn't know where we were going to be and when. I even had to leave my house a few times when I knew he was coming over to see the kids and he wasn't supposed to. It's all about protecting YOURSELF. That comes above EVERYTHING else, at least for the next while.

Okay, Scotty. I was actually wrong about which weekend--it's the last one of this month. I'll tell my in-laws, who are acting as IMs. My sister was set to be the IM, but WH refuses to have any contact with her since he spoke with her on the phone.

I'm prepared to go to my bedroom and shut the door if he comes over. I've left before when I've known he will be by. But I fear it's all for naught--he doesn't really seem to care if he sees me or not.

Fine by me.

It isn't about HIM wanting to see YOU. It is about protecting yourself. And you never know what an entitled wayward has running around in their heads. He may think, "Why do I have to miss any of DSs bowling, SHE's the one that doesn't want to see me." Or any other amounts of garbage. I just want you to be prepared for every sitch so you won't be unprepared.

If you do see your WH, anytime you are in Plan B, you should smile, ask, "Are you ready to meet my requirements in the letter?" If he answers anything other than yes, you say, "Talk to me when you are." and WALK AWAY.

Scotty, I KNOW it's not about him wanting to see me but I WANT him to want to see me. Silly betrayed spouse thinking, I'm sure.

I understand your last paragraph and have rehearsed it in my mind. I'm not going to speak to him and talked to DS tonight about that. I may have to forgo seeing DS bowl until we get something hammered out in our parenting plan (attorneys get to do this).

It's been an hellacious day. Bad day at work (aforementioned), got back to find homework from my attorney (in an email), and then, just an hour ago, my DD called me with a major problem of her own. I don't want to speak about it here, but my heart is breaking for her.

I did confirm to the attorney that, even though it will cost more, I want to slow this divorce down as much as possible. I'm trying to let my heart catch up with my head. It is probably just a case of postponing the inevitable, but I need time to process this. If I come out of it with any love left for my WH, it will be a surprise to me. At least, that's how I feel tonight.

Okay, if it is silly BS thinking to want your WS to contact you, then I AM SILLY TOO. I used to wish that my WH would drive home. I would hear the phone ring and hope that it would be him. I would log into my email anticipating an email from him. You know what I got? None of that. But it didn't stop me wanting it. I can't tell you when it stopped, I can just tell you that it somehow DID. I guess it is because I stopped thinking about him every other second and was able to start focusing on life without my WH.

This morning, around 530am, I awoke with a sense that my WH was lying in the bed next to me. I was in that in between state of sleep and awake. I actually startled awake and had to look on the other side of the bed to make sure that he wasn't there. Then, I went back to sleep. Only when I awoke a couple of hours later did I realize that today marks 13 months since I entered Plan B. I missed him a little bit more than usual, but I kept on moving with my day.

That's just it sometimes. Some days you are going to just try to get through NC for that minute. Sometimes you will struggle for an hour and other times, you will go to bed realizing that today, you didn't struggle for one second. I thank God every night for the strength He gave me to not contact my WH. Then, in the morning, I pray for the strength again. Even in my dreams, I get mad at myself for breaking Plan B. My mind is made up that THIS is what I need to do and it IS the right thing for ME.

I am sorry that you are dealing with other stressful sitchs. It is like the saying that my dad always had, "When it rains it pours." And I bet in those stressful times, you think about your WH. I know I often do. He was my ROCK. When I confided in him, it took away some of the burden. Now, I needed to find a new rock. I have support all around me, IRL and HERE, but also, I pray. I have faith and I have hope. That is all that gets me to the next step. The next moment. Looking back over the changes I have made in these last 13 months amazes me. I am CERTAIN you will be equally amazed with the changes you will make too. Stay strong.

Oh, Scotty, thanks for this comforting post. You've nailed a lot of what I'm feeling and you haven't made me feel bad for feeling it. Knowing that you've gone through it, too, and come through it is enormously helpful.

I do check my email obsessively, hoping he'll email. I run to the phone like a teenager, hoping that it is him and hoping that it isn't, too. And I run to the door, like a dog, to look out if I hear a car door slam. It just might be him!

I desperately wanted to call WH tonight, to talk to him about our DD. I just kept reminding myself that he left all of us and hasn't tried very often to be in touch with any of his children. If he wanted to know what is happening in our lives, he would make more of an effort to know what is happening with us.

But I missed him. He, too, was my rock. I wish I could count on him again, but that doesn't seem to ever be likely.

Thank goodness for the doubled AD's--I'd be a soggy mass of tears if not for them.

I'm staying strong. Just aching about the whole damn mess.

You are welcome. While it is normal to have these feelings and thoughts, it is also something you must actively try to get rid of to let yourself recover. It is still so new for you and I wouldn't tell you that these feelings are wrong. If you are still doing this in a couple of months, I would suggest that you do something to get unstuck. See, you can get stuck in the quicksand, or you can take the hand that is reaching down helping you up. I have a feeling that you WILL NOT let yourself get stuck.

Not calling your WH when you were hurting was GREAT. It was PROGRESS. Even if it is a small amount at a time, moving forward can never be wrong. Sometimes, you will make a tiny step, and sometimes you will take a giant leap. Just stay focused on your plan and what you are supposed to be doing.

Recovery is a marathon. Right now, you are on the path to personal recovery. There have been MANY who have travelled the path we are now taking. There may be many behind us. Let's do them all proud and keep moving in the right direction.

Very well said!

Okay, I'll watch out for getting stuck. I don't want that, at all. I want to get to a place where I can breathe and live without thinking of him every moment of my day. I can already see progress, aside from yesterday's very bad day.

I ached last night, wanting so much to call, but reminding myself that he's NOT my H, but my WH, did a lot to quiet the urge. That is great progress for me.

I agree with Cabbages--well-stated, Scotty! I'm moving forward and getting on with my personal recovery. I'm a valuable person and I deserve better than the treatment I've gotten. I need to move on.

H&G:

Ok, I get it. You spiked your earlier thread....

I recommend that you find out what the most important days are in the next six months.

WH Birthday.
OW' DD13/4 Birthday.
Anniversaries
Any other dates that are important.

And plan to make sure that certain filings are deleivered that day.

You have been told that MUCH of the divorce process is a physcological process, and if you mess with the head, it works for you. You can rise above all that, if you want. If not, you might as weel have fun. WH is employing these tactics, so do not be afraid to respond in kind.

Have your attorney draw up a response, stipulating to the casue of the seperation, detailing WHAT HE WILL HAVE TO PAY YOU, have the OW served to testify to her actions, and have these served on some of the above days.

Make sure they have as much fun as you had.

Scotty has taken the route of waiting her WH out. And thats cool. She made that choice, difficult as it is, but she arrived at that choice after much thought.

You are earlier into this than Scotty is, and you can make some decisions as well. You can wait and respond to what your WH does, or you can become much more proactive about it.

Your WH has filed. Not a complete filing, but just a start of the process. It seems that you have responded to that, which no matter what, you should always do... PRotect yourself. HE filed the "bare bones" not to END the relationship, but to prove to OW, and to his own PEA-adddled brain that he is allowed to BE WITH HER becasue this "paperwork" is filed.

If he does nothing else, than, he is just cake eating. And you can drag this out long term. OW will keep asking what the status is, and if it isn't moving, then that is a LB'er to her.

Or, you get proactive and hit him between the eyes and hope that it wakes him up, to what he is losing.

Sorry you have to be here. But the support is tremendous. We understand what you are going thru, and help you to survive.

LG

I really didn't think XWH would ever come over to the house, and he didn't - he likes to have people come crawling to him begging for attention. (If he had come over, I would immediately have left. And/or called the cops). I did not and still don't know where he lives, so no problem there.

I shut off the ringers on all the phones. If I needed somebody to call me, I arranged that ahead of time. I blocked my e-mail to the hilts.

That way, I never spent any time hoping for an e-mail or listening for the phone to ring. I went through enough of that kind of torment while we were married, when he would just ignore me and shut off his phone while he was at work or on the road.

Don't put yourself through that kind of daily suffering. Let your IM handle the communication. Take control of this wretched situation by shutting him OFF. If he really wants to get hold of you because he wants to restore the marriage, believe me, he will.

Hi Hope

Thought I weould pop into say hello and see how your Plan B is going. By all accounts it looks like you are doing good girl. I always find the first week or so a relief of them being out of your hair, and then after that it starts to get tougher.

The only thing that concerns me about your thread, which could just because you have a lot going on, is what are you doing for you. I know I beat on about this a lot, and I know when your in it its easier said than done, but please Plan A yourself in someway. It will just enable you to deal with things so much better. Let me know on this ok? It would be good to hear some treats you have lined up.

Are you sleeping better?

Harmony.

All of those dates that I know about (WH's BD, OW's D's BD) happened last fall. I know of no other important dates, except for the "vacation" they took together in June.

My attorney and I are working on this. He's a little surprised that I want to drag it out, but has agreed to follow my wishes.

What do you think would be proactive to do? I'm a little constrained by time lines (must file answer and counter-complaint by the end of the month, etc.). What is a more proactive approach to take? Counter-complaint will cite adultery. I'm going after child support first thing. We're asking either for legal separation or divorce. Everything is in my control, but I don't want to do it. However, I have to act because of the action he took.

Thanks, LG. The support IS tremendous. I haven't spoken to him in nine days which, as everyone who has kept up with me knows, is a huge step forward. I can't even bring myself to do it. I've explained to DS why I won't be at bowling or anywhere else that I could expect to run into his dad. He's supportive and understands what and why I'm doing this.

Mulan, do you have children with your XWH? It makes it extraordinarily difficult to maintain a dark Plan B. I'm patching holes in my plan left and right and sometimes I still forget that I should tell my IM to do the contacting. Most of this is the habit of 32 years of marriage, but NOT TO FEAR everyone--I'm getting past that. I really don't care to speak to him at all.

Harmony! I was afraid you'd given up MB and was sad to think you had. Glad you're back and that you had a great vacation.

I'm making plans to do some things for me. I'll be traveling during our spring break. I'll either go to see my sister or go to Chicago with my daughters. My DS is happy about this as long as he gets to stay with his grandparents and not WH. Next summer, I'm planning to go to Florida (maybe all the way to Key West!). I'll start out by seeing my brother who lives in north Florida, but I'll have to drive past her town to get to him. I may take the long way across the panhandle to get to him so that I'm not tempted to stop off and make national headlines. DS will be with me during the Florida trip and I'd like to get my older DS to go with us.

So, sweet Harmony, see--I am making plans. Too bad having a full time job takes up so much of my time.

Oh, I'm not sleeping so well, but I have my sleeping pills, so I can always get to sleep. Sometimes, though, I'm up at 3 and can't get back to sleep. It's getting better, though.

I just want to clarify something. I didn't choose to wait out my WH, I chose MB all the way.

Excellent Ms. Scotty.

HG, I was fortunate in that both of the kids are adults - youngest was 20 when XWH walked out. But you can certainly use an IM for younger kids - folks here do it all the time. The only IM I ever used was my attorney.

I didn't feel that you've chosen to wait it out either, Scotty. However, you're most fortunate that your WH hasn't file for divorce. (small blessing, I know.) My WH's decision to file after only 3 months of separation has rocked my world. And now I'm forced to answer his divorce complaint and file a counter-complaint. All steps down a road I never wanted to travel.

I see, Mulan. My attorney is doing a lot of this--sorta wish I could discuss or post the counter-complaint we're filing. For the rest of the things that come up, I'm using my ILs. They like me and hate what he's doing.

It is true that my WH didn't file for a D, yet. He could at any time. And when he does, as long as everything is agreed upon, we would be divorced in 31 days. I am prepared for it both emotionally and legally, as I should be. I don't think about why he hasn't filed yet. I do believe it is just laziness on his part. He hasn't even changed his address on anything yet and he's been gone 13 months. I don't forward his mail anymore. I used to send it to the IMs. Now, it is RTS.

Legally, you need to take care of yourself and your child. Emotionally, you aren't ready for this, and that is going to take time. That is where I am "lucky" I guess. I have been given the time to deal with the possibility, although I know that if/when that time comes, I will be a wreck.

Take care.

Scotty:

"Waiting it out" was my shorthand... It IS MB.

I was trying to point out how H& G controls this process. Not the WH. And she can choose to be aggressive, (filing, etc) or to just wait. You are waiting, yes, but you are in the dark, aware of your legal options, and in control of your sitch. It didn't happe in 24 hours, it took some time for you to get there. (And you still slip...) But you are doing well.

I wanted H&G to not waffle. To plan B or D? Well, if the other party files you have to do what you ned to do... If the other party does nothing, then you do some other things...

Your stance is proactive. Its a different kind of proactive than H&G, but it is still proactive. And in any case, being proactive is the important part....

H&G should be firm in her Plan B, and make sure she is protected in Plan D.

In H&G's case, I see a WH who is in full realization of how bad off track he is. If H&G hits him with all the legal stuff, and what he is going to lose, I think his inner "good man' surfaces, and he wants to go right. I could be wrong. He is wayward....

If I didn't think there was hope for this M, I would be gone. I could be wrong, like I said, he is wayward, and made his choices. And he may continue to make these same choices. I believe that he is conflicted. And that is H&C only chance.

LG

P.S. Scotty and H&G:

Don't buy any lottery tickets, unless you are ready to split the pot...

LG

He will attempt to break Plan B when he sees the hammer you bring down on him. He won�t be able to believe that you�re coming at him guns blazing, are trying to fleece him financially, and are filing on grounds of adultery.

He�ll be very surprised that you�re being so bold when you�ve been so mild so far. I tell you this because there was shock when I finally grew a set and started fighting back.

Stick to your Plan B. Stay dark. Don�t let him break your resolve.

I wish I felt he was conflicted. I'd like to believe that but he is so deep in the fog of the affair that I don't know if he'll ever come out of it. But still I hope. I do think that the condemnation of his children combined with my dark Plan B will begin to eat at him. And I think that is my best hope for recovery.

Well, he's known for quite a while that I'd come back on him for adultery, but I don't think he's done the numbers and understands the financial costs of what he's doing. He won't be able to retire for years!

I am going to stick to my dark Plan B. I believe that it's my only hope. He has recently said to my sister that he enjoys talking to me. He's always expressed the hope that we could remain friends. (Not very damn likely!) I'm planning on not attending any events that DS has (weekly bowling league, bowling tournaments, even piano recitals!) so that I won't be in contact with him. I finally understand--let OW be everything for him so that he can realize that she's nothing he needs. Or so I hope.

Just remember Plan B is for you, not him. Don't expect anything, it is for you to preserve any love that you have left for him.

Hang in there, you're doing great! Hopefully you can eventually go to your DS's events w/o it affecting you. I would had to have you miss out on things in his life over a fogged out WH!

Best,

Thanks, beginagain. I do know that Plan B is for me, but can't seem to help having expectations. If I had no hopes, I wouldn't have any love either. Not going to DS's events is a way of preserving my love. It's also the best way to give WH a taste of the life of a divorced dad and husband. This will be a very dark Plan B.

I don't buy lottery tickets often, and if I were to win, "I" wouldn't be the one to win, KWIM?

Thanx for better explaining. I misunderstood how you phrased it and I was worried that others may have too. end t/j

H&G(every time I type that I think of Proctor and Gamble P&G).

ITA with you staying away from events that you KNOW that WH would also attend. You are doing the right thing for you. It sucks, but you can't trust anyone else to take care of you but YOU.

Scotty, I'm just glad no one has written HaG. I don't think I could handle that.

GOOD GRAVY THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN FUNNY. HAHAHAHAHA. I may have been the first one to call you H&G so we may have dodged a bullet there.

Scotty, I believe you were the first to write H&G, too. I felt relieved when I saw it.

I've had a very good (dare I say GREAT) day. Schools let out early because of snow. I did something very good for a student. I got some more paperwork from the lawyer (deposition questions for WH)--the legal profession must be responsible for more use of paper than any other. Thirty pages! School has been cancelled for tomorrow! And, finally, I've been reading damnyouautocorrect (note--racy, NSFW) and laughing out loud for the first time since D-Day.

WH called DS and I was not even tempted to answer. Progress!

That is serious progress Hope! You are so strong. How good does it feel to laugh again? Have you tried singing out loud at the top of your voice in the car, that is great. Yes we have all lost it!!

I am 2 weeks Dark, and I am a liking it A LOT.

Its all about RESPECT.

I don't feel so strong today, but I've had too much time to think. Thinking is NOT good! So, since I'm off for a snowday, I'm getting a head start on the laundry and I'll go out in a few minutes to sweep the snow off the deck and clean off my car. Idle hands are the devil's workshop and if I keep busy, then those awful thoughts and doubts will go away.

Are you gonna get a bit of a workout too(other than getting rid of the snow). Lucky bugger getting a snowday. Last week, it snowed 8 inches and all they did was cancel the buses. Today it is FREEZING but SUNNY.

It definitely sucks to have time to think. I am glad that you recognize it and are trying to keep your mind occupied. I do want to remind you that you DO need to grieve. You need to let yourself cry every once in a while. You need to allow yourself to get angry. Punch a pillow and yell everything at your WH that you wish you could say to his face. Let it out.

t/j Harmony, I know right. I told my friends that I sometimes feel like that crazy lady, walking down the street, talking to herself, because sometimes, I AM. end t/j

gotta laugh, poor old Hope, I started that excercise thing and no one is letting you off the hook. So........

Workout? I came in from sweeping the deck and cleaning my car off with my heart pounding while I gasped for breath. I was ready to pass out! BTW, Eight inches of snow would shut down my state for a week. How the heck are students supposed to get to school if they cancel buses?

Telling me to let myself cry is like telling a dark cloud it needs to rain--it happens, whether I want it to or not. I do try to do it when DS is gone or when I'm in the shower. Sometimes I drive down the road, cussing a blue streak at WH for all the pain he has caused and is causing me. My therapist (counselor? I can never decide what to call her.) says I'll continue cycling through the stages of grief for some time to come. She has encouraged me to stay in Plan B (though she doesn't call it that) so that I can begin to heal my heart and WH gets a taste of life on his own as a divorced man. She says (and I'm sure all will agree) that I'm so emotional about everything that's gone on for the past few months, that I need to pull back and take a break from the drama. Sounds so familiar, doesn't it? My therapist has nothing on the caring people here--you all beat her to the punch by a couple of months. Maybe others here will read this and learn from it. You all do know what you're talking about!

I'm going to get a passport and get on a plane to jolly ole England and pummel you!:D You two young ladies need to respect me--I'm old enough to be the mama of both of you!

Seriously, I'll get off the couch soon. I hate walking in my neighborhood (steep hills!). Maybe I'll get to work earlier and walk around the university campus that it's near. When it's warmer than below-freezing every single day.

I am so angry at myself.

WH took DS to dinner and didn't come in the house, as he always has in the past. I was happy! Two hours later, they were still not home. In the past, when I called, WH gave DS the phone to answer. This time he didn't--said "Hello" to which I said "DS, please." He immediately gave DS the phone but I was upset that I spoke to him. I should have just hung up.

That was bad enough but it gets worse.

DS told me they would be home in a few minutes. I told him to tell his dad that he had some mail. DS comes in the house. I had moved the mail by the front door, but he didn't see it. The front door was closed, so I went in that room and gave DS the mail, thinking WH was still in his car. DS opens the door and there stands WH. Darn it all! He said thanks and "Hello, H&G." in a friendly voice. I muttered hello and left the room.

DARK Plan B since Jan. 10 and I flushed it all away twice tonight.

I am so upset with myself.

HG, it's all right. Don't beat yourself up over it. Just learn from it and make better arrangements for next time.

All you did was show yourself how much of a difference Plan B really makes! So, get up and dust yourself off and formulate a plan for what you'll do next time.

It's okay. You're doing great. Really.

Thanks, Mulan. I've calmed down. I will be very careful tomorrow, when WH takes DS to get a haircut and go bowling. Guess I'll hide in my bedroom.

Like I said Hope the most difficult part of Plan B is the attempt of the WS to break it.

Make sure you seal up the gaps so there is no getting in.

Your post the other day made me chuckle so much. You gonna give me and Scotty a good hiding you know!

I'm scared now......

BTW, I think you handled the phone call well.

I don't have children but I have heard that WS use the children to get to the BS.

When they do it that I hear they ask the child is it an emergency and if they say no then just simply say that we have nothing to discuss.

Poor DS. WH picked him up at 8 to go get a haircut. DS refused to eat breakfast with WH (made sure he ate before WH got here). DS told me he didn't want to go to WH's apartment and that he was afraid that WH would take him there--he was taken there last night and saw the photos of SkankyHo that WH now has proudly placed in the living room. DS doesn't want to be with WH at all, but loves him and so goes anyway. DS will be home within half an hour. Before he left, he planned on refusing to eat lunch with his father.

I'll be in my room, playing the clock radio very loudly.

I ordered HNHN and SaA for my kindle. Sometimes I feel stuck where I am, going through a divorce I don't want, and wondering what's the use of hoping? What's the use of Plan B? I cry at times like these.

Today I have wrapped myself in my prayer shawl (gift from older DS's girlfriend, who is currently applying to divinity schools) and prayed and read Mimi's thread and prayed some more.

It's a curiosity of divorce paperwork (to me, at any rate) that all of the things the plaintiff (or counter-plaintiff that I am) asks for are in the form of prayers. Counter-plaintiff prays to be named the primary residential parent, etc.

These aren't my real prayers. I'm asking God to hold WH in His hands and bring him safely through this time. I ask God to reunite us and heal us. I ask God to heal my DS's broken heart. I ask for relief from pain and heartache.

I'm so tired of the pain. I thought I was getting better, but the divorce and last night's Plan B failure have hit me hard.

(((H&G))) Hang in there sweetie. Now you know why it is so important to avoid ALL contact during Plan B. It sets your clock back to almost zero. Contact puts you in danger of losing the remaining love you have for your WH. If it keeps up, you will end up hating your WH. Plan B helps YOU begin to heal, and decide how to carry on your life in the future.

I thought I had really messed up, but I'm feeling a tad better about it. My sister pointed out to me that if WH didn't want to see me, he would have stayed in his truck and sent DS to get the mail. She thinks he's missing talking to me both in person or on the phone. Since DS wants little to do with him and the other kids are civil but curt with him, he's experiencing the loneliness that divorce will bring him. Let's see the cOW meet all of his needs now. I won't try to see him again--I don't want him to get any sort of a fix from seeing me.

You better be shaking in your boots, young lady! I'm now a lean, mean fightin' machine!

I'm hanging in there, princessmeggy. Now I do understand why it's so important to have a DARK Plan B--I think I set the effectiveness back to 11 days ago (the last time I spoke to WH.) I won't do it again.

I did some retail therapy today. I'm now in a size 10; before I was wearing 2X! I really can't complain about the infidelity diet, though I've helped it out with Atkins the past 2 months. I weigh about 20 lbs. more now than I did when I got married 32 years ago. I hope to get back to that number by May.

I also got my hair cut. I'm looking great, except for the turkey wattle that has appeared under my chin in the past week. WTH! I've never had one before and I don't really want one now. I've always thought women who have facelifts (like Joan Rivers) are whack-jobs, but I'm seriously considering it if it doesn't rebound somewhat. My doctor says it will, but my luck hasn't been great lately. (understatement!!!!)

Wondering why WH called our home number and let it ring one time before hanging up...

I would not have answered.

DS was asleep--maybe WH realized that DS wouldn't answer because he probably was still asleep?

I need something to do besides mulling this over for the past hour. Housework, here I come.

Quit wondering. He simply wants his ema validated right now by the kids. He hopes if he is around them enough eventually the shock of his audacious and immoral behavior will become tolerable.

That is also part of the ws handbook. My xwh even went so far as to immediately marry his ow after our divorce, and pretend it wasn't a big deal and just had my little boy over there, around the ow/w like it wasn't a problem. It was.

If your kids don't want to see the ws that was once their dad, then if they're above that age the courts say is the magic age for a child to decide what to do (in our state the magic number floats between 12-15), then they shouldn't have to be around the adulterer. My ds is 12, I have custody, and he does not at all wish to see his wayward dad.

Your wh might also have called out of habit or try to see if he could get you to talk. Another ploy out of the crazy ws handbook is to try to befriend the bs. Yep. Be "friends". Make you accept their behaviors also, because it does two things:
1)it makes their affair become ok with everybody and
2)it makes their conscience less troubled and their soul less bound.

In the wayward mind, if they can just get all parties involved in the affair ok with things it's ok.

My xwh used to call our divorce a "transition". The man never even used the word divorce. Transition sounded less harmful and benign. He tried to sugarcoat and gloss everything over with a fresh coat of lies and smoke and mirrors.

This is why you do a dark dark plan B. To protect yourself from these selfish lies and further abuse. He will have an end to his ema with skankyhola. It's destined to end. That is one thing which is 100 percent usually clear. Even the ones like with my xh which resulted in an affair-age. They're divorcing.

So Hopeandgrace stays good no matter what the foggy wh does. Odds are he'll wake up soon enough. And that's when things become so uncomfortable for them in the rats'nest he shares with skankyhola, knowing she cannot alone fulfill his en's. Eventually the Ws will wake up.

The power is yours. Will you want him when he does wake up and smell the coffee? Keep the power. Keep your sanity. Stay dark! And if the kids don't wanna see him? So what. If they're old enough let it be their call.

Peachy, thanks for the long and insightful reply. My WS has said before that he wants us to be able to remain friends. So not gonna happen!

I'm at the point where I want to email him and tell him that the minute the divorce is final I'll be moving on, dating and looking for the man I deserve.

I won't send that email, but I'm so tempted to do so. Today I'm feeling more rage and less love than I have in a while. I don't know it that's good or bad, it just is what it is.

I found out late last night from DS that he and WH will be going to visit at my younger DD's house next weekend. And my older DD will be there as well. Younger DD invited WS and he wants to take DS along. DS agreed because it will be a chance to see his sisters.

I feel betrayed, again, and I'm ashamed that I do. I know my younger DD, in particular, has really been hurting because of what her father has done. Maybe it's a natural thing to want to see him, but he does not need any reinforcement that what he's doing is acceptable. I'm afraid that's exactly how he'll feel. I want to speak to my DDs about it, but I don't want them to sense that I feel betrayed.

Any advice?

Just spoke to my father-in-law. He told me I should agree to an amicable divorce or I might end things for all time with WH. What the heck? If we get divorced, then I do believe that WH and I will be over for all time. I'm supposed to roll over and wait for a belly scratch?

I love my FiL but this is stupid. I didn't file for divorce, his son did. I don't want a divorce, but I'm compelled to answer and file a counter-complaint. I'm being railroaded into a divorce, but he wants me to BE NICE?!?

I'm just shaking my head.

Your FIL is probably well-intentioned but uninformed. He's like most of society who takes the attitude, "[censored] happens, just get over it and be friends for your children's sake." Buzzzzzzz. Wrong answer. Why would you be friends with someone who has betrayed you in the worst way? I don't know about you, but I don't need friends like that in my life.

Of course you want to answer and counter-file. You're the sane parent here. You NEED to protect your marital assets and insure that you and your children are provided for in every aspect. To agree to an amicable divorce? Why?

Rolling over teaches the children that what their dad has done is okay. It's not. They may be able to try and mend the relationship with their dad and go on about their lives but sooner or later, this will hit them HARD as adults. Heck, it may begin a cycle that he will have to answer to in the end. Sins of the father...

They will look back and see how their mom tried everything possible to restore the marriage and in the end, if it didn't work out, that she refused to allow someone that betrayed them so badly to remain in her life. This is a HEALTHY thing. What's unhealthy is to become bitter, angry and cold about it and teach your children that ALL men do this. That's the beauty of Plan B, although you are sad beyond words, you WILL get better.

Plan B allows you to focus on YOU and figure out what and how to go on (whether it's divorce or reconciliation).

(((H&G)))

My thoughts on the kids and your FIL.

The kids. Let them just do what they do without showing your discomfort. Smile when they smile. Offer arms for hugs when they need comfort. This is tough on them and they need to work out their own issues with dad. You are no longer a referee in the ring. You protect their interests as best as you can but step back from any commentary. Show them you are one amazing mom.

The FIL. He still thinks his son is the man of the house in charge. Don't tell FIL....but......nope. You are in charge now. Be kind to FIL and do not try to explain what you are doing. Listen and say non committal stuff like "I see what you're saying. I can see why you'd think that. Etc."

In plan B, if you are willing to follow it through.....you just do not engage. In the divorce you have your attorney respond to WH's attorney and stay out of the fray. Totally.

Bingo! He did say he would also speak to his son. Not that that will do any good...

I explained to Fil that I must answer and counter in order to preserve my rights. I think he finally began to understand, at least a little bit, by the end. Still, the entire conversation was very upsetting for me. I don't want a divorce.

It's already rocked their worlds. My older three range in age from 25 to 30. They are still in shock about it all; they know I'm trying to save my marriage.

A very dear friend cautioned me about becoming bitter. I'm trying not to--I pray for acceptance and to be able to forgive WH, no matter what the outcome. I'm getting there. Thanks for the post, princessmeggy. It's been calming and reassuring--just what I needed.

Reading, you are so wise and your wisdom even applies to my three adult kids. I'll do it this way.

Okay, I'm going to write these down. I told FiL that I was forced to answer and file a counter suit. He didn't know that. I also told him that if his son would drop his complaint, I'd drop mine. Maybe he'll tell his son that. Maybe.

I was tempted to call WH tonight after speaking to his dad, but I didn't. I couldn't see what it would accomplish that I hadn't already tried to say or do with WH. I'm content to wait for the affair to end and take it from there. My attorney gets some credit for my maintaining Plan B--he said to stop emailing him or talking to him. Okay, lawyer's orders.

Thanks!

And what are we? Chopped liver? J/K

I love your lawyer.

No, not chopped liver, princessmeggy! I did chuckle at your response, though.

I'm in Plan B (finally) because of the combined urging of many of you. My lawyer is just another clarion voice to add to everyone from MB. And my counselor. And my sister....

Everyone I know sees the benefits of what I'm doing. And now I do to.

I should have done it in November.

H&G:

Some interesting stuff going on for you.

WH is trying to "normalize" the process. I like how Peachy said that her WH called it "transition" instead of Divorce.

Always, Always, call it what it is. Divorce, Adultery, Other Woman when confronted with the discussion with other people, (i. e. FIL, MIL, friends, etc)

If they say "No, its xxx, not Divorce!" then just look them in the eye and repeat: No sugar coating, its DIVORCE"

About your WH going to your youngest DD's house next weekend. You can not prevent this, you can not control this, now or even in the future. He is still thier Father, and possibly the Grandfather (I can't remember in your sitch if you are blessed with GC or not...) So, if she invites him to visit, then there is nothing you can do.

They may want him to come by so they may blast him for his bad behavior... We can always hope.

As much as we want to cast wayward spouses as pariah around here, in the real world, everyone just "accepts" after awhile. Life goes on. That is why your friend said not to get "bitter".

Stupid suggestion that. You are "bitter" because somone has HARMED you. And seems unconcerned about that harm. That IS something to be bitter about. Although, not for long. I will not set any guideline for you to pass through this, it will be at the pace you need to go. MB is about working on yourself, and moving that pace as quilckly as you are willing. Recovery on you is the important part. Recovery of the marriage is gravy.

(((H&G)))

LG

Thanks for the comments, LG.

I don't want to become a bitter old lady. I've got issues with what he's done, no doubt, but I want to move on with some grace. If the divorce becomes final, I will not ever take him back (I have my pride). If he comes back before the divorce is final, then we'll see.

I'm wondering (a useless exercise, I know) if WS told his dad that I have refused to file jointly on our tax return. It will cost WH thousands if I don't but that doesn't bother me. It is the future he said he wanted when he filed for divorce. There's no time like the present to prepare for the future.

H&G:

This line:[quote=H&G]I'm wondering (a useless exercise, I know) if WS told his dad that I have refused to file jointly on our tax return.{/quote]

Should be told to your WH by YOU. Don't count on others to carry that message to him.

Do not break Plan B. So how do you tell him? Through your lawyer, or other communication that is impersonal...

LG

LG, WH knows I won't file jointly with him. I told him the week I found out he's divorcing me. He's convinced I'm doing this to punish him, but I just can't find it in my heart to do something for someone who has so callously hurt me. It's like Scotty's tagline says, "My give a damn is broken."

I still don't understand what prompted my FiL to call except as I speculated or perhaps just because he and my MiL are so torn up about what their son is doing to me.

I hate all of this. I signed my Answer and Counter-Complaint tonight. If I hadn't, I'd be divorced next week. It's as if WH has pushed a rock from the top of a mountain when he filed for divorce. The rock of divorce is bouncing down the mountain and gaining momentum every minute. I'm powerless to do anything but play this like a chess game and counter what he does.

I'm sad, angry, bitter, humiliated. I'm tired of all of this and just want the pain to end.

I think he called at the request of his son - just saying....

You might be right Kayla, I hadn't thought of that. Son: "Dad, would you please call H&G and try to talk some sense into her?"

H&G, speculating about all of this is giving your WH more space in your head than he deserves. Block that road in your mind, it leads to nowhere at the moment.

Kayla and princessmeggy, I hadn't thought that he might have asked his dad to call. Makes some sense. I also agree, meggy, that I'm giving him too much of my brain space. I'll try to stop that today.

I forgot to take my AD on time last night and so spent the next few hours crying. I called my sister and she talked me down from the ledge I was on. Love my sister!

I spoke to my DS. We had discussed the divorce before and I told him that I wanted to drag it out. He happily agreed. Last night he said, "You can either jump off the divorce cliff and get it done in a hurry or you can climb down the cliff and take your time. I vote that you climb down." How come my kids are wiser than I am?

Also, spoke to younger DD. She did not invite her dad to visit. WH invited himself. She said she doesn't approve of what he's done and she will correct his thinking whenever it comes up.

I've been reading other threads. How I wish exposure had worked on my WH! It doesn't seem fair that it hasn't. I feel like I'm in a race against time. Can my love win or will their affair outlast my ability to stay in love with him? I wish I had skills at prognostication...I guess if I did I wouldn't be where I am now.

I too wish that exposure had done its job in my case too. Then I think, "It did." See, my WH wanted to move in with OW. They were "just friends" and he would be staying in her "extra bedroom." Then in a few months, they would have announced their "relationship." Their magical love story That wasn't what happened now. My kids know. Anyone else who is influential knows. They didn't wield any of their influence though.

I also worry about losing my love for my WH. When I get those feelings, I try to change my focus onto myself and how I can make my life better. I look around and see what changes I have made to my life already. The small things really do add up.

I have been looking into Stained Glass projects. I think that would be an interesting hobby. Have you come up with one yet?

I'm pretty bummed that his parents, who definitely don't approve, haven't come down harder on him. They gave him old furniture to use in his apartment. They said their piece but don't hammer at him and he definitely needs a hammer!

I try to keep busy, too, but lately I'm wondering if I'll be able to forgive him, even if I love him. He's really done a lot of unforgivable things.

I've thought about doing Stained Glass but I don't like those tiny shards of glass. I'm afraid they'll stick in my fingers--ugh!

I think I'll go back to crocheting. I've always enjoyed making doilies but I've made afghans, too, and once made a great crocheted purse from cording.

I crochet too. My grandma taught me when I was 16. I like to make baby afghans. I need to make 2 of them soon. I am also doing some cross stitching.

Have you ever thought about making some preemie hats and booties and bringing them to your local children's hospital? There is always a need for those kinds of things. I even thought about making baby afghans and sweaters and giving them to the local un-wed mother's home. The Wal*Mart we have here has 1lb bags of mill ends. They are cheaper. I can get a 1lb bag of baby wool for about $6. It's not perfect and I need to cut some pieces off sometimes but it is worth it.

Scotland, I hadn't thought of making baby afghans or hats to donate. I'll look into it. Thanks for the idea.

I'm home for another snowday--3-4 inches have fallen and another inch is expected. It's getting ridiculous. I live in the South and this has not been our typical winter weather pattern for the past 20 years.

I'm worried about how WH fared going to work today. He's got a 30 mile drive to get there. I guess I'll hear if he doesn't make it.

Well, here's a surprise. WH took DS out last night. While they were eating dinner, WH told DS that he wouldn't be pressuring him to spend the night at his apartment any more "for the next month or so".

DS had refused to spend the night with WH because WH refused to not be on the phone with OW while DS was there.

Something to this effect was added to my counter-complaint. I wonder if WH received it yet or if he's finally being a little sensitive to DS's needs. I don't think he's received it (I just signed it Monday evening and he didn't have time to go to his lawyer's office before he picked up DS) and I don't really think he's sensitive to anything lately.

More useless speculation going on here. I think this almost qualifies as a new hobby.

Hiya Hope!



Yup you got it lady!


Sooooo, how are you doing? What are your plans to take the focus of what WH is upto? That is the real benefit of Plan B you know, that you have removed yourself from the drama and it no longer matters what they get upto....

So give us the low down and how YOU are doing. I am being nosy now...

Are you sleeping better?
Is the anxiety improving?
Are you going out or withdrawing from friends and family?
Are you excercising and eating well to cope with the trauma you are going through?
Are you feeling better day by day?
Do you need a change of scenery to give yourself a new perspective e.g night/weekend away.

Let us know Hope...

Harmony.

Hi Hope!!

OK I sound like a real old nag, but from what you have said above you need to start taking better care of yourself

Do you know I have never used that icon????

I know you are older than me but I often tell my mother off if she's not looking after number 1!!

OK back to the sleep thing. In my previous thread 'FWW in need of help and hope' I was a right mess. I wasn't sleeping and it was not helping me deal with the situation, I couldn't think straight, everything seemed worse that what it was and it made me feel depressed and anxious.

So it would be good for you to think about having a bit of a routine to improve your sleep quality. For example, I bought a book which was completely 'off subject' to take my mind of things before I went to sleep, I had a hot water bottle with lavender drops, and I had a cup of chamomile tea before bed. All these things gradually started to help me sleep better. So have you a routine, what do you do to improve your sleep? 7-8 hours sleep a night improves your mood, anxiety levels and great for your health and beauty!!

Your anxiety levels sound normal, but the more activity you can do to take your mind off things the better. You need a BREAK from all of this, whats the longest you have gone without thinking about things?

You are mostly withdrawing?? Ok theres another one

I know you have a lot on Hope, and I know its hard, but it is time to get out there and do one thing for me please? LIVE. Not that you want to get revenege but if you do the best revenge ever is to live a successful life. You need to start making plans. How about arranging a dinner party at your house? How about contacting an old friend that you have lost touch with to make a dinner date? Come on Hope it really is your time. Do you really need a man to be happy? You certainly cannot rely on your H to make you happy right now.

Eating habits....well well
You know that this is not good. You really need to have a good diet at the moment more important to help support you with what your going through. It will give you something to focus on, having a good daily diet, you can focus on preparing yourself a lovely evening meal with a nice glass of cheeky vino. Make it a pleasure in the evening and put on some nice music.

I understand about the injuction, is there nothing you can do within 100 miles?? Try and be inventive here Hope, it might just gie you the break you need.

Time to Plan A yourself Hope, I know that a lot of what I have said is off the subject of your M, but unless you are looking after yourself and in tip top shape, you will not be strong enough to deal with the road ahead.

Thinking of you {{{{{Hope}}}}}

Harmony.

I needed (and still need) that 2x4, Harmony. I did make sure I ate a good breakfast this morning. I also ate spaghetti and a buttered slice of Italian bread last night. I think some of my problems lately are due to the fact I've dipped too low on carbs. It's impossible to think clearly without some carbs in your system.

I do have a sleep routine. I take my AD before bed (it makes me sleepy) and take half of an Ambien (Ambien helps you go to sleep for 3-4 hours). Before I drift off, I read a chapter of a fantasy novel I have. The problem is that I wake up at 2 or 3 in the morning either because of anxiety or foot cramps. I've never had foot cramps before and don't really know what causes them. Getting up, walking about, and drinking a big glass of water seems to help end them, but by that point I sometimes have trouble going back to sleep. There's nothing like the wee hours of the morning to unleash the thoughts about WH that I keep at bay most of the time.

This is difficult to answer. Sometimes he's in my thoughts all day long. Other times, it's less but he's not ever gone from my thoughts more than an hour. I don't know what to do about it. Even when I'm busy, he's in my thoughts.

I did begin to get out more, but the snowy weather has ended that. I've even taken HTLD's suggestion and just let it be known that I have a "dinner date" when WH takes DS for the evening. Of course, the dinner date is with a female co-worker, but WH doesn't know that. I think I'm focusing too much on how my actions affect/don't affect WH. I need to get past this.

I don't ever drink (both brother and sister are recovering alcoholics) but I did try to have a nice dinner last night, as much for my DS as for me. Poor kid, he's had a lot of microwaved meals lately. I must do better for him AND me and make eating a meal together a priority.

Okay. I'll work on this

To me, the road ahead is just filled to the brim with bad things. Divorce. Loss of my best friend. Pity from others. I can't stand the thought of the future that's looming ahead. I want to go into hibernation and avoid all of it. But I can't do that and so I soldier on, in my own way. I do need to shake myself (and thanks for your 2x4's!) and get on with it. It's just hard today.

I used to wake up every night (the first four or five months) of plan B at 3 or 4 am
with anxiety, sorrow, etc.
I was surprised when it stopped.
It will stop some day H&G.
Now, I sleep well.
I love and miss my WH but I feel so proud of my self. I have such self-respect (now I really know the meaning of this word....never truly before this) and I have a clear conscious that I am doing all that is in my power to save my marriage.
You will not have pity from others. You will not need to constantly soldier on. Now, yes. Not forever. You will find joy and optimism later in B.
If your divorce goes all the way through......you will have done your best to save the marriage. What a woman. OMG....what a woman! THAT is true, honest beauty. Be proud of the stuff you are dealing with. Stuff you didn't choose and making the most of despite the emotional pain and fear.

Oh, reading! Thank you so much for validating what I'm going through AND giving me an optimistic view of the future. I did so need this.
This made me sob. I don't feel like "what a woman!" I feel like discarded trash. I keep trying to do the right things--Plan A, now Plan B, praying so earnestly to God to save my marriage and make me a better person but everyday it feels like I'm running full speed into a brick wall. I don't know how long I can do this. I'm ready to give up.

There is a point where you'll actually realize you are not discarded trash. Nope.
You will clearly see that the OW is a loser (whether she winds up with the guy or not). No matter what she looks like, her IQ, her anything else. If he stays with her....she is with a guy who left his loyal wife (jerk). If he leaves her she was with a guy who cheated on his loyal wife (jerk). Loser either way.

You need to feel what you are feeling now because it is what any human would feel in the same situation. It feels personal and unique but we are all humans. Anyone who was betrayed by the person they loved,married, built a life with would feel the very same.

You will have a long road but along the way it will get less and less upsetting and you will find that you will learn a lot about yourself and a lot of it is going to turn out to be good stuff. Stuff you didn't have a clear clue about until this situation.

Don't give up. There really isn't anything to gain by doing so and as a matter of fact....it isn't realistic. There is no giving up. You are on this ride and you can't get off. You just get to decide whether to close your eyes on the turns and swoops and whether to scream or not. Screaming wouldn't make the ride stop any sooner though.

Reading, I already believe the OW is a loser and that WH affaired down--big time! Even though she's a tenured professor at a small university, she's a SkankyHo. She targeted him and pursued him with a vengeance. Because of her jealousy, he's no longer "allowed" to call me or be around me at all--even before Plan B. It's this insane jealously that I believe will eventually be the cause of their inevitable breakup. Of course, right now he's so fogged and addicted that he thinks these requests by her are acceptable, even understandable. She's also the impetus behind him filing for divorce. Sometimes I wonder if I dropped Plan B and did some things that she wouldn't approve of, if it would make a difference. I don't know.

I've found out that screaming doesn't help--done quite a bit of it and it didn't help at all. About an hour ago, I got a bunch of divorce stuff in the mail from my lawyer--proposed parenting plan, court date, my answer and complaint. It makes me ill to read it. But I had to leave to take DS to a friend's house and quickly read it before I left. Mistake! It unnerved me.

As I was driving home, I passed a church. On the marquee sign were these words, I think it's a sign from God (pun unavoidable!).

I think God is listening. I don't mean to DJ God, but I wish He'd hurry up.

I will not quit. I will keep trying. After all, as you said, reading, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Bless you, reading. And Harmony, too. You've both made such a difference to my very bad day.

I saw my counselor today. She says, despite my difficulties earlier today, that she can tell I'm getting stronger--perhaps because I don't sob the entire hour with her anymore. She says I need to remember I'm grieving and will continue to grieve for some time to come but that it's okay because it's normal to grieve when something is lost.

She also says that, based on the conversations we've had about WH, she believes the break-up will come eventually because of the enormous pressure the cOW* is putting on him to end contact with his family and to file for divorce. I think she's right and she doesn't ever tell me what I want to hear. She's much more about telling me what I need to hear.

I'm feeling better tonight. Rollercoasters have never been on my top list of carnival rides, but I guess I'd better get used to them.

*cOW: the 'c' has no meaning, I just like calling her a cow.

terribly insulting to the cows, I must say.

Sorry to insult the cows, KaylaAndy. Unlike WH's cOW, they probably have feelings for others and would never steal someone's husband. Still, I like calling her cOW. Or, perhaps, sOW. Any pig lovers out there?

Morning Hope!

C'est moi!!! How you doing today?



Foot cramps can be caused by tiredness, poor diet, fatigue and dehydration. You are clearly not taking care of yourself. Read this link:

Foot cramps

You should be taking care of son, and I am telling you now that preparing lovely evening meals are a nice way of taking your mind of things and gives you and your son all the nutrients you need.

I am looking forward to hearing your 'list' of what social plans you are going to make.

Seriously Hope, why don't you give yourself a target date starting Monday to say for 2 weeks I am really going to look after myself and then see how I feel? You can go out shopping on Saturday buys loads of nice food, treat yourself to a couple of 'relaxing items' such as lavender oil ect...

The reason I am saying all of this is I only started to FEEL better once I started doing ACTIONS to make me feel better. You can sit and wallow or you can get off your booty and LIVE.

I am onto you Hope!!

Take care, Harmony.

Just updated previous post.

Just bumped Goddess thread for you, have a read its hilarious!

Harmony, you're a bit, uh, challenging today, aren't you? You remind me of my DDs.

I did see the doctor about the foot cramps and had blood tests done to rule out a chemical cause (low potassium, chiefly). I think it's dehydration and I'm going to blame the anti-depressant I'm taking. It's known to cause an extremely dry mouth; it makes sense that it would dehydrate other areas. Guess I'll try to drink a big glass of water at bedtime and keep well-hydrated during the day. (That's not so easy as a teacher--my restroom breaks are few and far between!)

Last weekend, I went to the mall. I bought 2 new pairs of pants and a new top. I got my hair cut in a slightly different style. Sunday night I ordered 2 new tops and a pair of shoes; they arrived yesterday. I am trying to treat myself but I'll also confess: I need new clothes because most of my old clothes are too darned big.

Tonight I'm taking DS to our favorite Mexican restaurant.

See, I am trying. Yesterday was just a low day, especially after I received more divorce paperwork from my attorney. I now have a court date for child support and our parenting plan. I still don't want any of this at all.

I'm off to read the goddess thread. Thanks for bumping it for me!

First of all, let me say that I am sick. Cough, snottiness, sneezing, aches and pains, low-grade fever, headache from sinus pressure. I feel terrible.

Now, confession time. I broke Plan B by going to the bowling alley today. My counselor suggested that I go for my son's sake. Of course, lousy Plan B'er that I am, I leaped on that and did it mostly for my own sake. It did make me feel better, not worse, so I'm not sure if I'm sorry I did it.

Before I go on with my story about talking to WH at the bowling alley, it's important to interject with this bit of news. Last week (was it only just a week ago?) I found out that my DD had separated from her husband. They've had trouble for a few months--her H suddenly has serious rage issues. The night they separated he actually hit her (with the full force of his strength) on her upper arm. The police were called; he was escorted from the home. She hasn't seen him since and has only spoken to him once. She is, quite understandably, devastated (Is there a stronger word than that? It seems to be an understatement.)

And, now, back to the story:

Because I was so clearly feeling unwell, WH offered me his seat at the bowling alley--it was way crowded with others watching their kids bowl. We discussed how DS is doing and have a nice we-look-like-we're-happily-married-but-we're-not conversation going on. I ask when he's going to bring DS home tonight (after a visit to younger DD's house). He says that he doesn't know--between 6 and 8 o'clock, and mentions that older DD will be there, too.

I asked him if he knew that older DD was going through a real hard time. He said that he had heard and asked if her H had come home yet. When I told him that he hadn't and that they were probably headed for divorce, WH got a look of absolute guilt on his face. He was so shame-faced that I was surprised. All I've heard from him (on the day I found out about it) about our divorce is that it's for the best--in a manner that shows withdrawl from me and indifference about his actions. His face didn't match what I've heard before. It was quite a revelation.

Later, I told him that DS's grades are in the toilet again. He was shocked--said that DS always tells him that everything is going great. That's what he always tells me, too, I told him. WH wanted to know how long I've known (since I checked online last night) and then WH wanted to know what the reason is.

Really. He has to ask?

I told him that I'm not sure, but DS told one of his teachers that it was because of learning about our divorce.

WH gets another guilty look.

WH said, "That's just an excuse."

I said it must be bothering him if he told someone about it, because DS has only told about 3 people about the problems at home. I also said that most of the missing work occurred during the first week or ten days after he had heard about the divorce.

WH and his guilty look get up and pace back and forth, back and forth. DS comes over to eat some pizza and says he's just about given up on the current game. WH says, "Just like your schoolwork?"

DS looks guilty, then gets up to go bowl and stays away for a while. WH remains guilty-looking for the rest of the time I'm there.

I finally reach the point where I'm feeling so bad that I have to leave and tell DS good-bye. WH tells me good-bye and adds that he hopes I feel better soon. I tell DS to tell the girls "Hi" and WH says "Okay!".

It was surreal. I definitely fed into WH's cake-eating today but I also managed to see some guilt on his face which hasn't been there since the first month after D-Day.

Be kind.

Is guilt better than withdrawl and indifference? What does it mean of he's guilty and ashamed?

Back to Plan B. I promise.

DS just returned home from his outing with WH. As soon as their 75 minute drive began, WH told DS that using the divorce for an excuse for his poor grades was a lie. He said the divorce had nothing to do with it. DS protested that it did and got a 15 minute lecture on how he (DS) was going to end up having nothing in life because he was too lazy to do his work. He was also told he had no integrity because he had been saying he was getting his work done.

DS wanted to spout off that a person who was cheating on his wife had no business talking about integrity, but was fearful of WH's reaction, so he just took it.

The rest of the day, according to DS, was uneventful.

H&G, what did this break in plan B give you? Think about that. I can guarantee that it now sent you into a tailspin. You will want to see your WH again. And if I have learned anything else, the contact you have had with your WH has actually made the A STRONGER. That is one of the main reasons I maintain NC with my WH. I don't want to feed the A.

Your WH is like a drug to you and after you get over your "high" you are going to go really low. It is even more important that you take care of yourself and stay as dark as possible.

Yes, do protect yourself right now.

And it is sad that the ws was not able to take responsibility for how his children are doing. Let him stew now on that and go dark.

Meanwhile YOU interject and let ds know it's ok to show his feelings and to open up to YOU about it. That's what I did with my ds. They have deep feelings and need to process things properly. You just be there for him!

Go dark. Let the affairees stew in their own juices. I do think the one good thing which came from the limited contact was him learning how his affair has hurt his son emotionally and how it affected his school performance.

Go very very dark now. Let that bit of reality sink into the ws. Now is about you! Now is about how you're going to help ds bring up his grades. We went thru this very thing about 2 months ago with my ds and the revelation of his dad (my xwh) getting yet another divorce (from the ow) and fears of ds not being able to see his half sister (6 yrs old) anymore.

Now..what else positive are you going to do for yourself and the kids this weekend?

It sounds like you honestly feel you can penetrate the fog with a lot of these things you are saying/emailing to your WH that you have been posting about for awhile now.

It's not worth it...it's not going to work. What your WH said to your DS on the way home is evidence of that ~ he probably felt guilty for all of two minutes before his foggy justifications kicked in.

Scotty is right, contact just fuels the affair, it doesn't help you in any way shape or form...

I know b/c I was there with a crazy xwh. Every time you contact him it bonds "them vs. you". It's nuts, but that is what happens.

When you leave them alone, they fall apart. I would have fought for my M longer than I did, but when I found out the ow was pregnant, to me it was time to permanently check out of it, it'd gone too far.

Sadly, I was so emotionally checked out by then (one year later) that I didn't know they were fighting like cats and dogs then. At 1.5 years into his marriage to the ow, my xh confided to me (when he showed me the new home he had built, meanwhile I was in financial ruin)and said he wished he could have gone back home to my son and I.

I to this day, remain in a sort of plan B. But when you do let go, they begin fighing amongst themselves. You see, the glue that binds them is stubborness, inability to admit wrongdoings, and that crazy addiction to the affair feeling (the hormones going off in their heads).

When you remove the "them vs. you" feeling, they don't bond as much. There are problems, real ones, and they have to cope with them. And usually one blames the other for the imperfect world that has suddenly set in "affairland". It helps things crumble faster, plus the ws can't get the fix on their bs, thus they miss us more.

In a brief moment, after our D, on a lapse from my plan B (he called and I didn't have anybody else to pick up my ds and he said he was leaving in five minutes), after 1.5 years of basically a very dark plan B followed by our D (only to see me in court, or way way off on other side of soccer field from my son) was the confession he made. I was meeting him at an address near my son's school and didn't know what it was. It was the address for his new home. And when I saw it being built I almost puked right there. But then he took me to the door (I refused to go in)and told me his regret, how they'd been fighting, and how he missed me. He actually asked me out to dinner.

My response was "well you are now MARRIED. I don't date married guys."

Shook me up for over 2 weeks and I had to go dark again permenently.

I've taken my AD and an anti-histamine so I'm pretty groggy. I hope these responses are coherent.

Scotty, considering how long it took for me to get to Plan B, I think only one break in 3 weeks and only 2 breaks in 6 weeks is somewhat miraculous. I don't feel I'm going to go into a tailspin. I don't feel I really did anything to stop or promote the affair. I did let him see a very strong H&G, so that has to be good for me, whether it affects him or not.

Peachy, I'm letting him stew. I do try to encourage DS to talk about what he's feeling and to let his dad know. DS can't quite figure out how to let his dad know what he's feeling without being disrespectful. DS doesn't want to be disrespectful so he's continually struggling with his relationship with his dad.

SusieQ--wow, you've really hurt me.
Susie, I may be the biggest damn fool ever, but I'm doing my best. The most hurtful part of what you've written is "that you have been posting about for a while now". I feel like you've been scoffing at what I've done. I don't really think I can do much, if anything, about WH while he's in the fantasy land of his affair. Yet, I do have hopes and sometimes ramble on here, trying to find a reason to go on. You've taken that away from me now. If you feel that way then surely others do, too.

I said I was going back to plan b and I meant it.

That is not my posting style, especially not to a BS...

I guess my thinking is you need to examine why you have stuggled with Plan B for a while now ~ my feeling is a good part of it is that you feel you can get through to him...based on the communications you have been relaying to us. I am hoping when you understand it doesn't work that way, it will help you stay dark.

I do wish you Plan B success and I am sorry if what I posted seemed hurtful. That wasn't the intent.

Peachy, thank you for this explanation and example. I did know before that it would only make the affair stronger, but I had forgotten why. Yesterday, it just seemed like a good thing to see him. For me. I will admit I did it for me. I'm a great teacher, but a poor student. This plan b stuff is so counter-intuitive to what I want that I do need explanation and examples to help me stay the course. Merely telling me the rule does not seem to suffice.

I'm still not down because I did see him, except for realizing that I've made him stronger in the affair. Definitely my bad.

I didn't see him this morning when he came to take DS to day 2 of the bowling tournament. I was sacked out on the couch. Having taken Benedryl at 5, I was sleeping it off. I did hear him come to the door and ask DS if I was around. DS told him I was resting, and then they left.

I won't see him when he returns DS. I'm back to total blackout.

Thanks for the apology, Susie. I'm sure, now, that I read too much into it. I can only offer my illness and the effects of Benedryl as an excuse for that.

I am back in plan b.

So, your breaking Plan B has given your WH a lovely chance to gaslight your son.


And your son has learned that he just has to swallow it whole. So he did. Your WH put his bootheel on that boy's face and ground the lies right into him.

I am sorry to be so harsh but your son should be protected from this, even if you aren't willing to protect yourself.

What was your response to DS when he told you this??

This is another reason why you do NOT break Plan B. Your WH is certainly feeling very very smug and self-satisfied right now. Your breaking Plan B gave him the perfect opportunity to gaslight both you AND your son, and to blame both you AND your son for the problems HE is causing.

He got off scott-free, took no responsibility, and dumped the whole mess right back on you. Now you and DS are suffering through a whole load of misery AGAIN will WH has happily shed himself of any guilt or responsibility.

HG, you seem to think - or hope - that by breaking Plan B, this will get back to WH's girlfriend and cause lots of trouble and uproar in their relationship. You seem to think this is worth it.

You say you saw "guilt" on your WH's face and that, again, that was worth breaking Plan B.

Did you see the look on your DS's face when he came back from his visit with Daddy Dearest? When he told you what that man had said to him?

Still think it's worth it?

Again, sorry to be so harsh but you are missing the whole point here. Stay OUT of WH's nasty little affair. It does not need any help from you to self-destruct. Your #1 priority should be to protect yourself and protect your DS from any more emotional abuse from from a cheating spouse and a cheating father. And every time you break Plan B, you are only allowing further abuse.

Hope - you still don't get it. When WH sees "a very strong H&G" all he sees is, "Well! She's doing just fine. My walking out didn't do her any damage. I really haven't done anything wrong, so it won't hurt to keep on doing it. And hey - if this thing with OW doesn't work out, maybe H&G will just keep on waiting for me since she's still willing to see me and talk to me and looks Very Strong. Wow, I still DO have the best of both worlds!"

This is why virtually all WS want to be "friends" with their Betrayed Spouses.

He should not see you strong (he'll think the whole situation is okay with you).

He should not see you weak (that's unattractive).

He should not see you AT ALL (because then he'll wonder and be confused and complain to his mistress about Not Seeing His Wife).

DS can state his truth openly and clearly without being rude or disrespectful. You must teach him that, because his father is only going to teach him that truth IS disrespectful if it's something the person doesn't want to hear. That is not true and I'm sure you dont' want your son gaslighted into believing that.

We do not want to take hope away from you, but as is often said around here - Hope Is Not A Plan. And what you are doing, H&G, is seeing what you want to see and Hoping it's real.

It's not. We are just trying to prevent even more emotional abuse for you and your DS. You are both walking right into it but sometimes a person is too close to the fire to see the danger. That's why we are trying to warn you, because we understand that right now you are blind to it.

My response was to tell DS that we both know that his father is not the same person he was a few months ago--that he can't face the facts that he has been less than honorable about his affair--that he thinks everyone will "come around" to accept his fogged-up notions. I told DS that he should refute what his father says and gave him some words with which to do this.

I have to be very careful, though. I do not want it to appear that I am coaching my son to hate or be disrespectful of his father. I validate his feelings but I can't put pressure on him to hammer WH's pelt to the wall with his own words and misguided statements. It's tempting, but not appropriate.

Point made and taken. DS is 15, though, and this was just another example of what he already knows--his father doesn't care about him as much as he cares about OW and will defend OW against all reason. I can't keep DS away from WH and something of this sort always happens when they're together. DS is balking at every turn and WH doesn't understand how DS can hate the OW. WH told DS that "she's nice" and "you'll like her". During the week when I found out about the divorce, I implored WH to be more sensitive to DS's feelings. I could have and should have saved my breath--there has been no real change.

About the 'guilt' that I saw--it was real, it was palpable. Unfortunately, in the hour between that time and the time when WH spoke to DS, WH appears to have justified and rationalized his defenses to the evidence that filing for divorce had had an adverse effect on anyone.

I can and will do Plan B, but I'm unable to protect DS from his wayward father. I'll speak to WH's father and see if he can offer any advice to his son about the effect of his words and actions.

This makes a ton of sense. I really am not stupid, but do need to have things e-x-p-l-a-i-n-e-d to me about Plan B. I'm only seeing it from my side of the fence and now I see why that's so wrong.

Thanks.

Thanks for understanding that I'm not trying to be obstinate but that I am blind to the damage I'm doing. It's so hard, but I'm really trying to do the best that I can.

I will do better. Thanks for the advice and 2x4's. I needed them.

From Pep's thread "Love Bank Units During Plan B":

This really spoke to me, as it has been the cause of many doubts lately. Sometimes I can't help but think, "How can I ever forgive him for what he's done? He shows no remorse for the pain he's caused me, lied to me when sometimes the truth would have served as well as the lie, and been so cold and callous about his choices and in his treatment of me."

And then I quash those thoughts because I want to love the man I was married to for 32 years--the funny, warm man who would sing silly songs when he was happy. And I try like the dickens to hang on to what I felt before.

But I feel that slipping away, and it saddens me greatly. If I can't hang onto the love, then there's no reason to hang on at all. Or is this just a temporary phenomenon, where the love is in the bank, waiting for when it's needed?

H&G:

You are dealing with a WAYWARD. He is no longer that H you knew for 32 years.

He thinks so. But he isn't.

Talk more to your DS. He KNOWS there is something terribly wrong in this world. He just gets blasted by his father every time he discusses it.

(((H&G)))

SFB

LG, thanks for commenting on my thread again. I was afraid that you'd given up hope for the recovery of my marriage, since you previously said you'd quit posting when you thought all chances of recovery were gone. Please let me know when you do think so. I value your opinion.
I think the problem is that I think so, but he isn't. Being around him is like being around a zombie--looks the same but OH MY--not the same person at all. I think it's time to reiterate, I'm back in the dark--no contact yesterday or today and no real desire to, either. That's what zombies do--kill the urge to contact them.

I do talk constantly with my DS--it's sad and not fair to him, but we're all that we have right now. Today, I'm the mean parent--he's back in the Stone Age as far as technology goes, until his grades improve. Divorcing parents or not, someone with an IQ in the 140s should be able to do his work.

Um, what does SFB mean?

Thanks again, LG.

H&G:

I happen to be a Plan A guy. I can help thru that. I understand that, and how it works. I also understand the mind of the wayward, having been one. Some threads have dynamics in them that strike me as having something I can relate to.

Yours does. So, I keep watch.

I am not a Plan B guy. Not much help there.

If your H returns, because the A is over, and the D hasn't happened, and he realizes "WTFHIBD!" and comes back, I will have more...

You get to fight the battle of the school work. WH DOES NOT CARE. His actions show it, and when confronted with HOW his actions are effecting someone else, he denies that it has ANY role in this.

That is wayward mentality.

Your DS16 is at an important age, and everything that is important to him has been shattered. BTDT. When I was 12-13 years old, and then I visited that on my son at 12 or 13. My M did not end, and we ended up with a much stronger M. But the effect of my A stained many years and parts of my family. I still find areas that need to be cleaned out and disinfected 6 years later....

Do not worry about being the mean parent. Your the ONLY parent. Yes, children grades are effected by the parents issues, however.... They are still responsible for what is going on. If you have to spend more time with him, and insure that things are moving along, then that is what a caring parent does. When his grades get back on track, then you monitor, and be ready to do what needs to be done.

You are the ONLY ONE who is going to do this.

Sorry. WH is no longer responsible. And he will get worse. Alot worse.

LG

Hiya Hope!!

Sooo appart from WH how are things going? What actions are you taking to improve your state of mind?

Hows your foot cramps coming along?



When are you off to the shops to get yourself some sexy new clothes?

You said you were going to come back to me on your 'trip' to get out of town for a few days...

I'm waiting

PS. As you agreed earlier, your WH has similiarities to mine. There is no reasoning with them or getting them on board, they are wayward, and then there is just plain old them. So save your breath, stay dark. You don't need his psycho babble in your life.

I'm almost willing to go back to Plan A, but realize the utter futility of that. Do keep watch and jump in whenever you can contribute.

LG, what was the turning point for you? Did the affair run its course? How long were you active in your affair?

This is so much of a 180 degree turn from where he was a few months ago that it's hard to wrap my mind around. But you're absolutely right--he does not care at all.

I'm really unhappy to read that last bit, but I do believe it's true. It's hard to handle and it will be hard to forgive. How does anyone recover a marriage with a WS? The resentment must be HUGE.

Hiya, sweet Harmony! I still go to counseling and speak to my sister daily (and she, poor thing, does have other things to do but she is so there for me right now.) Both of these things are to help me improve my state of mind. Believe it or not, my counselor says I've gotten much stronger. My sister provides advice and makes me laugh.

My foot cramps are doing okay--I just have to make sure that I hydrate myself really well before bedtime.

My new clothes are sexy-ish. A bit of cleavage with some of the tops and the pants are, for now, well-fitting. I'm not a dress-wearing gal--only wear them to weddings. I guess I could get a dress, to wear to court, with some nice heels. I'll have to think about it.

Harmony, I need to see what happens with the court date before I make any extended out-of-town plans. DS and I will probably go to see DD1 this weekend or have her come here and go and see a movie together.

I was not a dress wearing gal either H&G.....but they don't say men are skirt-chasers for nothing. Get some dresses to wear! (Just so you are feeling the power of the leg and hem for yourself if no one else!)

Well, reading, it sounds like a project my daughters would love to be involved in, so I guess I'll at least try some dresses on. They are so NOT my style, but you're right--men are skirt-chasers.

I am not a skirt and dress girl. And I really didn't own any heals. Guess what I own now? 2 dresses, 1 skirt and 2 pairs of heals. I also have a problem with buying jeans now too. I lost 85lbs and I could fit into jeans again.

What colour are your toenails?(I remember when Neak asked me that.)

What color are my toenails? Um, toe-colored?

I do polish them in the summer (pink or rose) when I wear sandals, but it's too much bother from Oct. through April.

I have been shaving my legs, though. And plucking eyebrows and chin (and, shhh!, mustache!). Menopause ain't for sissies.

BTW, Scottie--congratulations on losing 85 lbs! No wonder you've gained so much personal confidence.

I've lost 62 and am just 21 pounds from weighing what I did on my wedding day. Funny how that's become a goal for me....

Tell me about it, I'm part Italian.

Polish those toes girly. And what about new underthings? Did you buy any new ones? Are they cute? If not, you really should.

Actually, it has NOTHING to do with the weight. How much I weigh doesn't make me who I am. I have friends whom I adore. I am a good friend to them. I am a good mother(could still do better though), and I was a loyal wife. My confidence didn't take much of a hit from the affair either, isn't that weird? I am pretty secure in who I am. I KNOW I can be better and I am learning more about how to be better everyday. My self-confidence hasn't been tied to my looks for a long time. There were times when my WH would say, "How do I know you aren't cheating on me?" I would say, "Come on, I am fat, who would want me?" He would say, "Well, I do." That, along with other things, convinced me that it didn't matter what I looked like.

I also remember the first thing that my mom said to me when she saw OW. "Scotty, it can't be her, she's fat." I said, "It doesn't matter though, does it?"

I did think, for a short time, that OW was better than me in some ways. I am CERTAIN now that that is NOT true. KWIM?

I've definitely been making myself feel good by buying new underthings--pretty, sexy underthings. Besides, I've lost so much that my drawers would be hitting the floor if I hadn't gotten smaller ones! (I hope they call panties or knickers "drawers" in other parts of the world. )

We do call them "drawers" as well. We are pretty "Americanized" up here. Especially since I live "over the ditch" from the States. What about gotchies? HEHEHEHE I LOVE saying "gotchies" and I know all about those falling down. I call it, "Wardrobe malfunctions." There have been times that I was at work, and if I had been wearing a skirt, I no longer would have had underwear on.

So you gonna paint your tonails tomorrow?

Scottie, are you tag-teaming with Harmony to improve me? LOL! I guess I'll paint my toenails tomorrow, although no one but me and the good Lord will see them. Actually, I'll probably wait until Thursday because I have to take Mom to the grocery tomorrow, after my appointment with my counselor.

I didn't know what gotchies were but I looked it up online. We don't have enough Poles around here for that to have become part of our lexicon. It's a cute-sounding name, though. I can see why you'd like to say it.

I had a rough day at work today. There are one or two boys in my class who seem determined to see if they can make me make national headlines because of their consistent poor behavior. The worst is that they give me an attitude about it. Pray that I make it without tweaking their heads off of their bodies tomorrow.

That is a prayer I CAN add to my nightly one for sure. You got school tomorrow? We may have our FIRST snow day in 2 years tomorrow. And it is because we are expecting 30cm(12"). We just had a PD Day yesterday.

H&G:

This:


What was the turning point? Exposure of the A. It had continued for 4.5 years. And it had run many courses. I was horrible to Flamingo that first year, and during the entire time. I just never realized how bad I was to her till the A was over. And I played both sides really well, I thought, at the time. Compartamentalization....

No Plan A for you....Plan B is working, as much as it can. The rest is up to your WH.

LG

Yep, we had school. The big snowstorm missed us entirely--we had a couple of inches of rain from it. It looks like this will be the first week of school since the week Dec. 6 when we will actually have a 5-day work week. I like working only 3 days a week!

Scottie, I'm learning a lot from reading your thread and the thread Pep started about your situation. To say it's been enlightening is an understatement.

Thanks for answering my somewhat impertinent question. I appreciate your candor.

I agree--no Plan A for me--I wore it out. Plan B it is.

Since you are learning things from me, did you pick out a colour for your toenails yet? Are you finger nails painted too? I don't like to do them in the same colour, I find it too boring.

And we DID get our snow day. That snow is so HEAVY too. It was really hard to shovel and it seems that my wish for the magical shovelling fairy hasn't been granted. BUT they actually plowed the street, which means there is MORE HEAVY snow on my sidewalk. Maybe it's all a dream and I am living in SoCal or something. HAHAHAHA okay, maybe not. Besides, I don't even know WHERE SoCal IS.

I'm guessing that your toenails aren't the same color as your fingernails and not that you have ten different colors on your hands. That would definitely NOT be boring.

I'm still looking for the housecleaning fairy--she's a no-show around here. And I don't even have a snow shovel--I just sweep it away with a push broom.

SoCal is southern California--LA and San Diego and places like that. Not that I've ever been there--it's a long way from the southern US. And now I'm wondering if the folks from Sacramento are from NoCal....

Oh, before I take Mom to the grocery--I have some rose nail polish. I hope that's good enough for me and the good Lord. No one else will see them.

Nope, not 10 different colours, that's something I did when I was younger but us grownups need to appear more dignified. Silver on the toes with red or blue or purple on my fingers depending on the mood.

Rose nail polish will do just fine. Remember, you said you would do it tomorrow.

H&G,
Its
Norcal

HAHAHA I figured that NoCal was wrong, because that's where the rest of us live.

Thanks, reading. I learned something new today.

Is there a middle California? TN is divided into West TN, East TN, and Middle TN. I live in Middle TN.

LOL, Scottie--It's true. Everyone else lives in NoCal.

Central Cal

Mostly the regions are referred to as SoCal and NorCal though......

In limey land we call em knickers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So a you feeling a little better than a week ago Hope??

I'm feeling much better, in all ways. I'm taking care of me and I'll soon put polish on my toenails so Scottie doesn't come way south and do it herself.

Harmony, I've been reading your thread, but haven't had time to reply. I wish my Plan B had worked to the point that my WH would come to my house, sober or drunk, to talk to me. I understand your POV, but for some of us that would be a dream come true. Take your time and think, think, think before you act. Love you!

Thanks, reading!

I am so pleased you are starting to feel a little better Hope. It makes me happy as I know how awful it feels to be in 'that place'. Promise me that you will make 'self care' a core boundary for you. That way each week you will start to feel an improvement. Only you can create that change in feeling.



I know how you feel, I remember the early days here when WH did not want to know me and I would read other threads where WH would want to make contact and think, if only!

Its just so strange that when I feel soo much better and actually back to my old self, that he all of a sudden wants to know again! I think they have a sixth sense. I also think its true that when they know that you are doing just fine without them, and are happy and moving on that they do a 360.

So there you go.

Your right I need to think before I act.

But Harmony, your old self is who he fell in love with in the first place.

You wrote on my thread not to mess with me..well waaaaay back(20+years I'm talking)I was no one's doormat. I don't know what happened, I don't think any of us on this board do. We live and we 'feel' the same, but when something tragic happens (like a death or A) it jumpstarts our soul. We wake up. OH MY GOSH! THIS ISN'T ME...WHERE AM I?

Hope, find yourself...your in there...take care of yourself, like Harmony said.

Hi there Hope - Where are youuuuuuuu? Waiting for answers to my questions. Damn I am so impatient.



Slight T/J going on....

Mitzie - you are joining me right up where Plan B should be, finding yourself again, gaining your self-respect and loving yourself!!!

Hope is working towards joining us in our recovery .......

Quote of the Day for Hope:

Johnny Cash: Aw, June, love's more important than the tour.
June Carter: Is that right?
Johnny Cash: Yes, it is.
June Carter: Well, then start loving yourself, so we can go back to work.

Get to work Hope.

Hi, Harmony and Mitzie. I'm around, just had a busy night last night. My DD needed me, in my full capacity as her mom. Then I spoke with my sister, who has become a life coach for me. She's a Buddhist and spoke to me for some time about right actions and intentions.

WH came by to take DS to dinner and I stayed dark.

Unfortunately, toenails didn't get polished. I will try to do that tonight.

Interesting religion: Buddhism. I took a history of religion class(I think that's what it was called)and we touched upon it(Buddhism). What I got out of class, and this seems to be true of ALL religions, is that before we can know life we must first know self, especially true in Buddhist teaching. I'm sure your sister gave you great advice,most sisters do, as they know us like no other

You paint those toenails girl! Feel good about yourself everytime you look at those tootsies

My feel good therapy is perfume. Expensive perfume, unfortunatly. But I'll tell ya, nothing lifts my spirits higher than spritzin' on some 'parfum d'jour' after my morning shower. I haven't walked through a Macy's, Nordstoms, Sephora without walking out with a bottle of something. I was going to throw WH's favorite away, but I tucked it back of my 'unmentionables' drawer...just for 'someday'.

Good you stayed dark when WH stopped by.

You should go buy yourself some perfume, something cheap maybe, something you KNOW he won't like, something sooooo NOT you and next time he's expected over to pick up DS, spray it ALL around the house.

It'll drive him crazy wondering WHY and WHO your wearing it for.

Of course it's childish and you'll have to air your house out after he leaves,(even in single digit weather) but c'mon, a girl can have a LITTLE fun can't she??

Not to sound too sensitive but you know this was an affairage right? I am sensitive to these "relationships" as a BS. I have figured out that if I stopped watching TV and movies because someone had an affair, or if I stopped listening to musicians who had affairs, I would probably watch and read almost NOTHING.

Hope, I am waiting for those toes to be painted

Here's a Wikipedia page about Johnny's first wife
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_Liberto

Scotty, I understand how you feel about affairages--I happened to have liked Angelina and Brad, but now, not so much. I'm from TN and there are some songs by Johnny Cash that make me get a catch in my throat, but I don't like what he and June Carter did.

Reading, did you catch the last line of your link? John Carter Cash, speaking of the harsh portrayal of Johnny's first wife in the movie about Johnny and June Carter, said the point of the movie was to portray their "romance". Yuck. Affairs are not romances.

There's lots of folks that now make me squeamish. Some I can watch, some I cannot. I used to really enjoy watching Tiger Woods play golf, but now I can't stand him.

Oh, BTW--Scotty, Harmony, and anyone else interested: MY FEET ARE COLD! My toenails are polished, but MY FEET ARE COLD. I hate having cold feet. Of course, my toenails do look nice.

WOOOHOOOO Toenails are ROSY.

I liked Angelina BEFORE she became Brad's OW. Now, I DON'T LIKE THEM ONE BIT. They used to say that they didn't have an affair, then Angelina told someone during an interview that not all children have a movie where their parents fell in love. That was Mr and Mrs Smith. She's just a HORRIBLE human being and I believe that she does those "good things" to 1.get over her guilt, and 2.to try to make people forget what she did. I'm not forgetting.

I can't watch Frasier anymore because of that TURD Kelsey Grammer. I don't watch David Letterman anymore either. JLo, TURD. Julia Roberts, TURDx2. And when I heard that it was possible that Sandra Bullock and Ryan Reynolds were dating, I was gonna get REALLY angry. I would have actually written to Sandra and told her about my disgust. I don't watch golf so I didn't have a problem not liking Tiger

Feet still cold?

I totally agree about Kelsey Grammer--YUCK! I've been a big fan of the Real Housewives but didn't watch the RHOBH until, by chance, I caught the episode where Camille spoke about his affair. Everything she felt, every action she took (not telling anyone) mirrored what I have been through. I will never watch Kelsey Grammer again. And I totally agree with you about the other "celebrities" you have mentioned. I'm not watching them, either.

My feet have warmed up--I put on thick socks and my houseshoes. I used a quick drying polish, so I hope I haven't ruined my pretty ROSY toenails.

I'm kinda fearful of what you and Harmony will come up with next on your "H&G Improvement Plan".

I don't think Sandra did it btw. but the biggest turd in hollywood is the female Kelsey Grammar(and equally as fugly), Leann Whines!

She's the biggest turd in hollywood!

Hey, Peachy! I read your post about Strivectin on the goddess thread. I just ordered some of the neck cream from Amazon. I hope it works--losing a ton of weight has left me with a bad case of old lady neck. I've never had this problem before.

I also ordered some deep wrinkle cream for the parentheses that are now bracketing my mouth.

I spent about $85.

If either of the creams work (please, God, let the neck cream work!!!!) then I won't mind the expense.

I spoke to my mother-in-law for 90 minutes last night. Hardly any of it was about WH--we spoke about family, teaching, etc. Then she said, "WH's car is gone. I guess he's in GA."

I explained to her that I am out of contact with WH and she agreed that that was best for me. (I haven't really had to use them to send messages to WH--there's been nothing to send him that DS or attorney couldn't communicate.) I told her my intention to drag out the divorce for at least a year and she agreed with it.

I've been praying and thinking a lot and decided to go ahead and file jointly with WH. I know filing the taxes as married and separate is a prime opportunity for revenge, but it's not what I want to do. I don't think it will have any effect on his feelings; I just realize that I was behaving with some malice about that. The money of it doesn't matter--it's all in the same marital pot, to be divided between us when the divorce becomes final. I just want to, despite feeling that he's treated me poorly, to be able to say that I handled this with some grace. My MiL will tell WH. I'll give my tax info to her so she can give it to him.

GA gal here who doesn't mind applying the "stick" of plan A now and then to help out a friend! Lol! We don't want skankella giving us GA gals a bad name!

Wish I knew where she lived..wouldn't it be nice if her neighbors got interesting notifications like "the woman living next door to you is a skank and sleeps with married men".?

Wishing out loud...but heck I got errands to run! Getting nails done today and then going to gym. I do hope that strivectin works. If it does, I'm buying the large tube! Anything to avoid a shot. I hate needles and don't exactly like the idea of botox (not yet anyway);)

Unleash your hot goddess self HnG!!!

Well, Peachy, I do know her exact address..... Unfortunately, she lives at least 2.5 hours from you. I don't think she gives all Georgians a bad name--after all, she's originally from TN. It would be great if you could make her run farther south, say to Florida. My brother (a biker) lives in Jax and he'd love to meet her.

I actually paid for the 2-day delivery of the strivectin. Yep--I'm that desperate! I've got high hopes!

Oh geez. She is originally from TN (damn it so am I). Now she's trying to give good southern gals a bad name! Expanding her hoterritory!

Oh yea, she is in s. ga right?

And yea, I'd loooove to meet her too

I'm just scared of needles. I want a non-needle solution to those teeny stress lines I got about 7 years ago from a crazy divorce from a wayward! lmao!

It's funny. i actually went about four years ago to see a plastic surgeon to get him too look at the fine lines on my forehead. He said they were "stress lines" and asked me what great stress had I recently endured? he said they were not aging lines, but indeed from stress and all they needed were 5 little shots.

I held off and the stress lines got a bit better (most of time you can't see them much) but I know theyr'e there and want em' gone!

Had a patient who sold me on stivectin. I saw her twice, on two occaions six months apart and she told me she was going to get rid of her wrinkes and had started trying that stuff. I saw her for a clinical follow up procedure six months later to check her gallbladder, and her skin was amazing! The lady was over 55 too. What a transformation. I didn't pull the trigger on the strivectin b/c it was rather expensive, but wish I had done it then.

H&G:

I will disagree with you about the tax filing.

He is the one showing MALICE to you by leaving, and carrying on with the OW.

One of the results of that choice is that he gets to suffer the consequences of that choice. ANd that might mean a larger tax bill becasue of it.

In my practice, I used to say that the IRS should not benefit from your marital difficulties. They will in this case. But that is HIS choice.

You can file seperately, and later, file jointly, if required by the divorce decree. Dollars to donuts, you are the one that is going to lose proportionatly more money than your WH.

Just my take. You can do what you feel is right. But HE is the wrong one here. Not you. He is the one that should show some grace. HE should feel some of the pain of his actions. And he understands the pocketbook. He doesn't care AT ALL about your emotions, but he is pretty darn concerned about his checkbook...

Sucks either way. I get that. But you ARE making it easier for him.

Tell your MIL/IM that you consulted with your new tax advisor and he told you to NOT file with WH.

LG

LG, I'm still considering your response. I don't know if I can go back on what I said.

If there is such a thing as the fog of divorce, I think I'm in it. I just can't seem to care about the money or winning this one. I guess I've been beaten down by his decision to file. It has been the ultimate love buster for me.

I'm working very hard to improve myself, the only person that I know who will be here for the rest of my life. I don't want to be a vengeful person. I don't want to act with malice. I'm working toward acting with indifference. This is very hard for me.

I don't know what this means, long term, for me and WH. When I said that his filing was the ultimate love buster for me, I have in my mind that it has done something irreparable to our relationship. In its own way, it hurt more than the discovery of the affair or our separation.

So I'm being a turtle and pulling my head in on this for a while. I'm going to let the tax matter rest (not give paperwork to ILs) and waiting until closer to the deadline before taking any action.

One thing about myself that I have learned is that I change my mind nearly daily.

More thinking going on, LG.

I don't believe he filed for divorce or left me or had the affair because he felt malicious. I believe he has done all of the things he's done because he's a foggy wayward.

It doesn't mean his actions haven't hurt me. It means, unfortunately, that his actions weren't personal.

That's "unfortunately" because if his actions were personally directed at me then we'd be in a state of conflict, not a state of withdrawal.

He's just doing whatever he has to do to get his addiction fix. OW put enormous pressure on him to leave me, so he did. OW put enormous pressure on him to file, so he did.

I don't think he'll be able to stay long term with someone who has been emotionally blackmailing him to get what she wants, but I could be wrong. Lord knows, I've been wrong for months.

But this is where I have hope. And I'm going to behave with grace. (See what I did there?)

And this is why it's important to devise and follow YOUR plan. Also, posting HERE to get others to weigh in and help when your emotions want to take over.

I agree, Scotty, but I'm not clear and need to ask: Are you saying that I should have asked before deciding to file jointly with WH? It was something I personally wrestled with because of my own tendency to cut people out of my life who have hurt me.

I spent the 7 years before my father died not seeing him because I wasn't speaking to my mother.

I've only recently regained the company of my sister after spending 2 years estranged from her. We've only had contact about 5 years out of the last 20.

I currently have a co-worker I cannot speak to--she threatened to sue me. She's crazy as a loon and I choose to not be inflicted by her craziness anymore.

I'm trying really hard to overcome my "duck and cover (or cower)" pattern of life.

I want to have more grace and stop doing things that will ensure the other person won't want to have anything with me. To me, that's what filing separately was doing. I wanted to piss him off and, by golly, show him what divorce was about. Because he had hurt me and I was going to show him.

I'm better than that and better than him.

I don't need to behave that way.

I can't advise you on which way to file because in Canada, it is done differently. I don't know which way would be legal and which way would get you more money, so I can just say that whatever you choose is what's best for you and leave the advice to that on the shoulders of the ones who know.

I was just saying that the fact that day to day, you can change what you feel like, that instead of going on emotions, it is IMPORTANT to stick to a plan.

I wasn't saying that you were currently doing anything wrong, just to stick to your plans.

Whew! I thought I had stepped in it again.

I'm doing the plan. I'm all about the plan.

H&G, exactly why YOU need to take CONTROL of YOUR situation. Lord knows I'm not one to tell ANYONE what to do-I'm in the same boat as you-however, who's to say that 'foggy' brained WH of yours isn't going to take the income tax money and take POSOW on a vacation, or help her fix her car, or buy her a diamond necklace? You know, I filed married-seperate. Not out of revenge(well...okay a tiny, tiny bit of revenge, but c'mon...he abandoned his whole family!)but because affairs are fueled by money(lust and lies and deceit don't really cost a lot :/)and why should I help him fuel his affair? No money for girlfriend? I see girlfriend finding someone who does have money...bye, bye trampy ho!


Again ,why would you help him get his fix?if he was hooked on heroin instead of hergroin, would you buy him a needle and say "go ahead honey, make yourself happy"? Of course not!


Me too. But they don't care that they are being emotionally blackmailed. All they know is skanko hung the moon and the stars dance in her eyes, and oh, her kisses...like heaven

Mitzie, I appreciate your thoughts. Truly. But we're not going to get a refund. We will owe money. I would have gotten a refund by filing separately but his salary and overtime mean that we owe money every year. And I don't need the refund. I've got a wad and a half of our money in my bank account. He can't touch it.

As far as funding his affair, he's got plenty of money. He earns enough to do whatever he wants every month and he had a very healthy balance in his credit union account when we separated 4 months ago.

Our mortgage is paid off. We don't owe a dime to anyone.

I will get satisfaction when/if the divorce becomes final. I should get alimony for life and half or more of our assets and half of his retirement. I'll start getting child support next month.

Money is the least of our worries. The very least.

I wish my MiL hadn't told me that WH is in GA. It's been on my mind all weekend. I'd much rather not have known (and did tell her so).

Weekends are the worst, anyway. I can't wait to go back to work tomorrow which is sad because I'm really dissatisfied with my job.

I'm staying dark.

H&G,
I can understand where you're comming from. It seems when I am work that is the only time I'm not consumed with what has happened the last 3 months.(Dear Lord, it's only been 3 months?! Seems like FOREVER!)

Stay strong.

P.S. money isn't the issue, take a stand girl, keep your footing...file seperately...because eventually it WILL be about money. It always come down to money...there is power in money...men seem to know this better than women...(Trumps marriage didn't have money problems,Tiger Woods marriage didn't have money problems, Kelsey Grammars marriage didn't have money problems and the list goes on and on)Sorry, went off on a rant there...just don't want you feel...like you've played like an old fiddle... )

Mitzie

Thanks for the positive thoughts, Mitzie. I hope your day is a good one.

H&G:

Back in the office.

And for these reason alone, you need to file seperately:

Let him PAY IT. He will understand THAT.

If you reconcile you can amend the return, and get the extra $$ back. In up to three years. So, don't worry about it.

Your description of how you felt when he filed is heart-breaking. And your description of how you cut other people out of your life, becasue they treated you wrong....

Then you say, you don't want to be this way. Someone who removes awful people from thier life....

You should ALWAYS remove awful people from your life to the extent that you can. You are in Plan B. File seperately. Who cares if WH is upset. And has to pay MORE. He has no problem with you feeling pain right now. It may not be "malious" on his part. He would tell you that he "just sort of ended up in this new relationship" and how "You had ignored him for years," and how "OW is more like what he really wanted anyway" Nothing malious about any of that...

Just sounds like the first 4-5 chapters of "His Needs, Her Needs". No, he didn't set out to hurt YOU, but he has, and continues to do so, so allow him to feel the pain of HIS DECISIONS. This does NOT make you a lesser person because you want to "not be vindictive". Your not being vindictive. He has filed to divorce you. To BE AWAY from you. So, let him BE AWAY.

And one of these tangible, direct points of showing that HIS DECISION have ramifications is in the additional taxes HE HAS TO PAY because he LEFT YOU.

And, yes, you told your MIL that you would file jointly... So What. He said that he wouldn't go outside the marriage. You are allowed to change you mind. Like I said. Say that your tax accountant told you NOT to file with him.

Let me give you another scenario....

You file jointly with him. There is a balance due of say, $2,000. The address on the return is your home address. (Obviously, right?) What is HIS ADDRESS? And then, he doesn't pay the balance due... Well, he just thinks because you have the house, and the toys in the house, and your DS who you are poisioning against him... H&G can just pay that balance...

Later, who do you think the IRS comes looking for? You? or Him? He of No Fixed Address? And, since you filed joint, you CAN'T ESCAPE his liability. Your stuck. Extreme? No, I don't think so. BTDT. Had that exact sitch last year... The runaway spouse couldn't believe that they should pay all those extra taxes, that they had been letting the other spouse pay with thier extra withholdings...

Your WH is wayward. Fog-bound. The likelyhood of this A blowing up, and your husband exiting the fog is high. Your description of how OW "pressures" him to make these decisions, that WILL wear off.. And maybe, just maybe, he comes back. But, this A stuff makes your WH's thinking whacked. (How are your thought patterns right now? and your trying to do the RIGHT things...) And you are no longer dealing with the guy who would NEVER let the IRS not get paid...

(((H&G)))

LG

DITTO WHAT LG SAID.

((((H&G)))) from me too

You're very convincing, LG. I understand your advice. It's nice to know the return can be amended if we reconcile.

This is the most convincing part of your argument and it's the reason I originally had for filing separately. I'm not sure why I changed my mind, except for feeling it was right for me to be the better person. So far, I haven't won any points being the better person, so maybe my second thoughts about it are really screwed up.

I think this message might actually penetrate the mile-thick cranium of my tightwad WH.

I will cite you as my "tax account". I just hope he doesn't ask for your name.

Another key point made--I am no longer able to trust any words that come from his mouth. He lied to get my SS# in order to be able to file for divorce. This is what made filing for the divorce such a huge love-buster for me--he deliberately mislead me and played on my helpful nature in order to file for divorce from me. I'm so ashamed that it was so easy for him to do this to me.

(((H&G)))

LG

Thanks, LG. I had forgotten that you are a tax person (CPA?). I should have asked before I opened my big mouth to my MiL. I don't think I'll have any problem taking my offer back. If he doesn't like it, I'll put it on the scale against his lies, cheating, separation, and filing for divorce and see if he then understands why he's not trustworthy or deserving of compassion from me.

H&G:

Yes, I am one of those "tax people". A CPA.

If you need a source, you can reach me at richsteve2005 at yahoo dot com.

He is the one doing all the attacking. Don't be afraid to protect yourself.

(((H&G)))

LG

LG,
As you probably read, I filed married seperate AND claimed kids as dependents (heehee.!! WH cried "I SUPPORTED THEM ALL YEAR", too bad ). Also did NOT itemize (again, heehee)

Q: If I am to understand this correctly, my WH can only take standard deduction of $5800 and his tax bracket jumps up + %?
So if his tax on his income was on the tax table(M file sep) was...for example $9200, does the tax go like this $9200 + the %(whatever it is for filing married seperate). Or is that already incorporated into the tax table

Just hoping it works that way cuz...WH will owe even MORE! Either way Mr. Moneyhungry will have to pay.

THANKS LG

Thanks, LG. I written your email address down, if you'd like to edit it out.

H&G:

It was part of my sig line for a long time. I will edit, however.

LG

Mitzie:

Your WH's tax bracket doesn't change just because he is Married-Filing Seperate. The "breaks" in brackets just come sooner in MFS status vs Joint. The 15% tax bracket starts with taxable income at $16,701 vs $8,351 for MFS.

So, if your WH gross W-2 was say, $75,000. He could deduct from that, $5,800 for the standard deduction, and $3,700 for his personal exemption. Taxable income is $65,500. His tax on that amount as Joint would be $8,994 and as MFS $12,569.

If you two put your income together and put in the kids, and all the other things, the tax might drop WAY down. So, MFS is quite punishing from a tax stand point.

The divorce decree will usually stipulate how the tax filings are supposed to go up to the point of dissolution. You can amend MFS to Joint. You CAN NOT amend Joint to MFS.

If you have alot of income from your job (I am not familar with your sitch), and alot of itemized deductions, than your decree will probably ask to file amended returns to get the refunds back. You can insist on a split of the refund, as well. It is NOT all his.

LG

Another snow day.

I have a pair of lucky snowman socks. Whenever I wear them, the actual snow fall exceeds the forecast amount.

Yesterday, when I left for work (wearing lucky socks), the forecast was for less than 1 inch of snow.

We got 5 inches of snow.

Schools didn't release until it had been snowing for an hour. I left for home an hour later, dumping my 6 remaining students on the principal, who was in the cafeteria with the rest of the students.

My 10 minute drive home took 45 minutes.

By the time I got home, my driveway was impassable. I managed to get my car onto the very end of the driveway but no further.

It took some elementary students 4 hours to get home.

Snow if forecast again for tomorrow. We're supposed to get an inch.

I'm wearing my lucky socks again because I'll do anything for a day off.

I don't know why I like snowdays so much when they've generally proven so hard for me to get through. There's too much time for introspection and too much time spent reading this board.

I'm wondering if I've done everything I can to get my WH back. Logically, I think I have but today this is the hamster in my head, furiously spinning the wheel of my thoughts.

Have I done everything? She has about 50 people on her FB that I haven't notified. Would it do any good to do it now? They are mostly co-workers or people who work under her or students.

I can't notify any of WH's co-workers. I have an injunction prohibiting me from doing anything that damages his employment or even attempting to do anything.

And, if I do expose to more of her FB connections, I wonder what the fall-out will be for me personally? WH is sure to scream bloody hell about it, although he didn't so much the last time--until 2 months later when he said I had NO business contacting her boss. Fat lot of good it did.

So, thoughts? Suggestions? Prayers?

This is the letter I would send:

Plan B, do nothing.

As much as you WANT to, and boy do I understand how much you WANT to, DO NOT DO ANYTHING.

You did everything you could. Don't look back on it now and second guess yourself. I had MANY of these thoughts, and sometimes still do, but I remember what someone said to me once, "That is evil talking into your ear trying to convince you to do something that would harm you." So instead, I pray and ask for clarity. I ask to be kept on the right path. I usually feel a release of those feelings of doubt after that. Know that you are NOT alone. We have all had, and sometimes continue to havem those feelings. Not acting on those feelings is what is BEST for YOU. So KUDOS.

So, now you see why it is so important to find yourself some new hobbies to occupy your mind.

BTW, what "contact" did you have? What set these thoughts into motion?

I haven't had contact with WH. Maybe it's because LG and Mitzie have been posting about filing separately. Maybe it's because I've had too much time on my hands today. Maybe it's knowing that Valentine's Day is less than a week away.

You're right--I need a hobby besides obsessing about WH and OW. Maybe I need to quit reading others' threads and seeing the success they're having with exposure. Maybe I need to see my counselor and get my head focused.

I guess I'll shelve the additional exposure plan. I thought it would make a fine Valentine's Day gift for them.

I put "contact" because it is not only DIRECT contact that you need to worry about. If you figure out where and why you started to have those thoughts, you can learn how to avoid them. Oh yea, V-day is next Monday eh? I almost forgot. Okay, not really. But I didn't think about it like I did last year.

H&G:

You could send roses (without a card) to SkankyHo for V-D. Walk in, pay cash, so you can't be traced. Use another address, not your own..

When she thanks your husband for them, he will say, "What flowers?" And he will think, who is sending YOU folowers?

No, not worth the money... Unless they were dead and shriveled ones...

You have an injunction that YOU can't talk to his employer? You can not tell his employer the truth? Scary that. Throw an injunction at him for the following:

1. Blood test. You have reason to believe that he had SF with a known loose woman, and then he had unprotected SF with you. And you want to have medical proof that HE is NOT infecting you, nor your children, and grandchildren. And not just for STDS, Throw in head lice, the flu, and whatever else is commonly transmitted by trash.

2. Bar him from your home. HE has MOVED OUT. He is not allowed to cross the sidewalk, or curb. If he is picking up DS, he can not enter even the driveway.

3. Contact with your employer. You have reason to beleive that he may tamper with your employer-employee relationship.

4. Something else that sliped my mind. Think about WHY he got an injuction against you, and then hit him in similar spots.

And YES, you did everything you could to save this marriage. You STILL ARE. Plan B doesn't mean you have STOPPED TRYING. It means that the pain that HE CAUSES you in greater than the LOVE that you still have for him, and YOU want to protect that.

If he is gone? Then he is GONE. If he realizes that this D thing isn't going to be sweetness and light, than maybe, he comes home and asks for your forgiveness. Your doingthe right thing.

Tell me ONE THING that he has done to make this right?

Pretty short list I bet.

Compare THAT list to yours.

So, you HAVE done EVERYTHING you should.

The rest is up to him.

(((H&G)))

LG

LG, the injunctions are standard statutory injunctions, applying to both parties upon filing of a petition for divorce. This is a state law. It says "Neither party has asked for these injunctions, or stated any reason why they are necessary".

Both parties are restrained and enjoined from:
1. Transferring, assigning, borrowing against, concealing or in any way dissipating or disposing of, without the consent of the other party or an order of the court, any marital property.

2. This part is long, but basically neither of us can cancel or modify any insurance policy (life, health, homeowners, auto, etc.) This includes any change in beneficiary status.

3. Harassing, threatening, assaulting or abusing the other AND from making disparaging remarks about the other to or in the presence of any children of the parties OR to either party's employer.

4. Basically it says we can't hide, destroy, or spoil any evidence electronically stored or on computer hard drives.

5. No relocating outside of TN or more than 100 miles from the marital home.


I do like the idea of sending her flowers for Valentine's Day. Maybe just a simple rose....OOOH! I could send her super-sized pajamas!!! Like 3XXX! It would totally be worth the money!!!!!!

Wonderful points, LG. He has done nothing but move out "for you, because I'm hurting you too much by staying."

He's a jerk. Thanks for talking me back from the ledge.

So, let me get this right. Your WH filed for divorce and that stated above is STANDARD divorce policy in your state?

Is your state a no fault state? If YOU don't do anything(like sign papers) how long until your state issues a D decree?

WHat happens if either party breaks one of the injuctions? Do you need an attorney to stop them or can you go to court yourself?

Lots of questions I know, but holy cow, if you can get him thrown in jail for breaking any of the above, without a lawyer, that's one for your side.

I've got to tell you I don't think EXPOSING and telling WH employer is either disparaging or harassing, or threatening. Its telling the TRUTH H&G. The TRUTH.

Yes, it is standard divorce policy in my state. I was surprised when I read it, too.

We're a fault state, but filing for "irreconciable differences" is treated as no fault IF both parties are in agreement. If I hadn't counter-filed, we could have been divorced after 30 days. Now that I've counter-filed, it will take much longer, especially since I instructed my attorney to make it take as long as possible.

The injunctions can be stopped if both parties are in agreement to stop them (something I won't agree to do) or if by court order. The court has no reason to stop them, either. If either party breaks an injunction, it is punishable by fine or imprisonment or both.

Definitely it's a plus for my side. I think the reason our state legislature made this a law was to prevent jerk spouses from ripping off innocent spouses. It's a good law.

Well, I agree but I'm not willing to put it to the test. His employer will find out soon enough as part of my attorney's actions.

I spoke to my attorney today. He said I won't have to take a parenting class unless WH insists on it and then I'll just have to do it to make the divorce final.

He received info that shows my estimate of WH's income was off by $10,000 and will amend the child support request to reflect the new amount.

I have until the week before our 3/14 court date to finalize my monthly expense statement, so that temporary alimony can be awarded. I'm having a lot of fun doing this--upgraded my cell phone plan and cable plan. I'm thinking that I need at least $600/month for my new wardrobe. Etc. My attorney reiterated that I have an excellent case to get alimony for life, half of all assets, and half of his retirement.

My attorney won't depose my WH for a few months (purposely dragging out the process per my request). He agreed today that he will also, per my request, depose the OW. Hotdog!

One injunction I have added to the child parenting plan is that neither party will have contact with a party of the opposite sex in the presence of our DS, to include telephone conversations.

The attorney said that it was fine with him if I filed separately. The attorney agreed--if he wants to be divorced there's no time like the present for him to experience paying all of the taxes his salary will entail. He confirmed it could be amended up to 3 years in the future, if ever we reconcile (although that's looking more and more doubtful.) I don't know if I will owe some amount or get a refund, but I don't care either way.

Through his mother, WH now knows I won't file jointly. He's not happy about it but I don't give a good golly darn.

More snow yesterday, 3 inches on top of the 5 inches we got on Monday. The roads are impassable because of the low temps (5 degrees F here this morning.)

And I worried about WH making it home from work last night. His job is nearly 30 miles away, over hilly country roads. But I didn't call him.

However, my MiL called to ask about my DDs--she wanted to know if they were safely at home. Both were, but it took my son-in-law 5 hours to make it home from his job. He works less than 10 miles from their home.

MiL told me WH made it home in about 2 hours, so that worry is over. I know I shouldn't be worried, but the habits of 32 years are hard to break.

WH is accusing me of punishing him for refusing to file jointly. He hasn't even told MiL that he has sued me for divorce; she learned of that from me. She agrees that he has provided me with no reason to do this for him (lying, cheating, separating, filing) and that I shouldn't file jointly. It's nice to have her on my side.

However, today (and most days, to tell the truth) I feel despair. I've tried to do all that is possible to save my marriage and I truly feel like I have failed. Divorce, although months away, feels inevitable.

It makes me ineffably sad.

You know why you feel this way today, right? Its because of the "contact" you had yesterday. It started with you thinking about your WH's safety. Then, your MIL called and she talked to you about your WH. You need to stop the cycle. You are now abusing yourself by keeping this going in your head. Whatcha gotta do? Only talk to your MIL about things involving your children and YOU. Don't let her talk to you about your WH. Tell her that it hurts you to hear about your WH because IT DOES.

As you know, I have been in Plan B for about 14 months. Even having someone say, "I saw your WH walking down XX street last month," sends me in a tailspin. First, I have adrenaline pumping through my body, my heart beats faster, my palms get sweaty and my stomach turns. After that passes, I start to feel better but I start thinking about what I did or didn't do. What I could have done, what I should have done. My thoughts become almost obsessive and destructive. The best thing to get me out of this, other than a swift kick in the rear, keeping BUSY.

So, this now brings me to my old question, come up with any new hobbies yet?

I understand. It's difficult to overcome because I do love and care about him and I want to know about him. I need to remind myself that he doesn't ask about me and didn't even call yesterday to check on DS. So darned hard to accept that I'm nothing to him.

I don't know if it's helpful or not to know that you're having some of the same difficulties after 14 months of plan B--I keep hoping I will become numb to what he's doing but it hasn't happened yet.

Regarding hobbies, I've found one. I'm resurrecting my old love of origami. I just ordered some paper and 2 books. I have a few sheets of paper still and a book here at home. It's very engrossing and leaves little room for thought while I'm doing it. Combining that with reading and cleaning, I think I will be busy enough.

I do have a short bookshelf that I'm going to put together this afternoon. It will hold all of DS's gaming systems and the Blu-Ray and cable box. Currently, they're sitting on the floor.

DS and I put together the bookshelf and he moved all of the gaming systems and TV stuff over to it. It looks nice and it was great to have his help with it.

Then the mail came and another envelope from my attorney.

I hate getting mail from my attorney--it's like a punch to the gut from WH each time.

This was WH's Answer to my Counter-Complaint. He admits to adultery but denies moving out to "pursue an adulterous relationship with his paramour". Oh, really? Even when he left to go to her 4 days after he moved out?

He admits that child support is needed, but denies my request for arrearage (from the day he moved out) payments.

He totally denies that I need temporary and permanent spousal support and demands strict proof thereof. Well, that's coming so, WH, beware of what you wish for!

And his defense? That I condoned his misconduct by continuing marital cohabitation and martial (misspelled on paperwork) relations. The misspelling made me laugh but the defense is one that has worried me for quite a while.

I read a magazine article written by a TN attorney who said that condonation is the BEST defense when someone sues for adultery. WH and I did have marital relations (and martial ones!) during the period of time between D-Day and the next time he went to her, but not after. I've been worried sick about this.

I called my attorney so that he could tell me AGAIN that this is a standard defense and that I have nothing to worry about. We are still married and he's continuing the affair, so he's guilty of adultery. Period. Big sigh of relief from me.

So my fun day (putting bookshelf together with DS) rapidly became a bad day, but calling my lawyer helped me get some needed perspective. Of course, I'll get billed for the call but that's not important. Peace of mind is!

Origami eh? I have ALWAYS been interested in it but haven't done any and I have actually been thinking about doing some of it too. Good to know that it occupies your mind.

Great work putting together the bookcase. Be PROUD of it.

About feeling this way even 14 months in, it's only when I hear something about my WH, which is quite rare(except from the kiddos but I am getting used to that and I tend to ask them not to tell me full details about things). That was my way of showing you that you need to keep yourself in the dark as much as possible. The times BETWEEN hearing about my WH is BLISS. It really does get better. I PROMISE.

Scotty, we (DS and I) are ridiculously proud of that bookcase. I think it proved to both of us that we will, regardless of the future, be okay.

Okay--I'm holding you to your promise! I very much do want it to get better. I will remain as dark as humanly possible. I'm tired of feeling sad and need to move on to whatever the future gives me.

Thanks for always being here for me, Scotty. I don't know what I'd do without your support and kicks to the seat of my pants. You're the best.

I need to admit something, Instead of reading, ".....KICKS to the seat of my pants," I read, "....KISS to the seat..." and had to re-read it. HAHAHAHAHA I DON'T kiss ANYONE'S butt.

NP hun, I am paying it forward. And you can hold me to that promise. If you follow MB, stay DARK and follow Plan B, I PROMISE that you will feel better in a year. If you don't, I will give you my IRL address and you can KICK MY AZZ. I am CONFIDENT that my butt will be safe.

If I could, I'd give you a hug. A "Thanks for everything" hug. Consider it done.

WH is taking DS bowling tomorrow--a surprise to me since I thought he'd be out of town, being Valentine's weekend and all.

I have to pick DS up at the bowling alley to take him to a piano theory test since the timing of the latter won't permit me to wait until he is returned home. I'll wait in my car in the parking lot, so exposure to WH should be minimal.

I don't think I have a way around this. WH won't agree to not being at the bowling alley even if I take DS. I'm not confident he will take DS to the piano theory test, so I must do it.

Suggestions?

LG:
Last year, WH and I had a combined total income of $K. This year, it will be a few thousand less than that. I don't understand why my wages are less on my W-2 than I actually earned, but it shows that I earned about $K and that he earned $K. Since I'll be filing separately, what can I expect my taxes to be? His?

My FICA withholding was $. I'll claim DS. Can I claim the standard deduction?

I would have IM ask him to take ds to the piano theory test.

I understand you aren't confident he'll do it but you must practice releasing control of what he does. If he does take him....awesome!....if he doesn't....find a way to recoup the situation somehow, someway.

That is what I would do (and I often face similar situations and dilemmas with three children with my WH).

Is there a different parking lot, close by, but unseen from the bowling alley where your DS can walk to and meet you? This way, you won't need to worry about WH seeing you and you seeing WH.

Reading, IM's aren't available. It can't be rescheduled because this is a rescheduled test (DS was sick last weekend).

Scotty, there's no parking lot nearby as the bowling alley is off by itself. There is a small parking lot on the side of the building and a larger one in front. I could park on the side and tell DS to exit by the side door. WH doesn't park there.

Do what you need to to stay as dark as possible. Is there someone who can bring DS to you? I am worried that WH will try to follow your DS, and I hate to put your DS in the middle like that.

Scotty, DS is 15 and I don't think he'd go for having someone walk him out. I don't think WH will follow him, but if he does I'll just roll up my window, turn the Beatles on full blast, and turn my head.

I didn't mean someone who could walk him out, I meant someone who could drive him to a different parking lot where you could be waiting.

And why the heck would your window be open anyways? Wouldn't it be COLD? HEHEHEHE

Will you have a talk with your DS and rehearse how this should go down and what he should do and why?

I don't know anyone there well enough to arrange a drop-off ride for DS. I'm an "older" parent, having had DS when I was 38. Most of the other parents are at least a dozen years younger than me.

I don't know why my window would be down--ha ha! I guess I'd roll it down to say hi to DS...but UP to avoid WH.

Yep, DS knows why and how. He's okay with it.

Okay, sorry about all of this. I am just one of those people who has anxiety when I don't have a plan. I think I then transfer that onto other people, lemme know if I am annoying you. I like to figure out all of the angles, my responses to them and then I am okay to deal with ANYTHING.

So, on the topic of Origami, how bout this?

You're not bugging me, Scotty. It helps to have someone think through all of the potential pitfalls.

A thousand paper cranes? And my wish will get granted? Okay, I'm on it! But I've got to order more paper--a lot more paper!

I guess it's no worse than using the Magic Eight Ball app on my cell phone and shaking it to get the answer I want. Silly thing to do, but somehow I find it comforting when I get anxious.

When I was growing up, any decision that needed to be made by my parents, including the one to get married, was made by flipping a coin. I still use that one with my DSx2. When they need to decide which one is going to play video games first, they flip a coin. So 1000 Origami cranes, why not? Okay, j/k. I think the real benefit of making those cranes is the power of positive thinking which is why I have my vision/dream board.

Anyway,I think that the side door is perfect to park near so ds can go out and get in your car. Hopefully WH won't follow him out the door to see you. You could park with the rear of your car facing the door so if he does peek out....he gets no glimse of you.

Good idea, reading. I hope it doesn't involve backing into a parking space. I am so not good at that!

Scotty, tell me more about your vision/dream board. My IC is working hard on getting me to visualize a positive future without WH. So is my sister. Your vision/dream board sounds like something I need to do.

H&G

I have a dream board. It is basically a collection of things you want, or need, or hope for. It helps you visualize it and reflect and think on things. I use my fridge doors...not creative but it works for me.

Back in early 2009 I wanted to go on a cruise for the following years' vacation. I beleive this is when the books, 'the secret' and 'the law of attraction' were popular. I didn't really buy what either was selling, to a point.

They both, at the basic core, were what Norman Vincent Peale wrote about decades earlier. THE POWER OF POSITIVE THINKING.
I was positive I wanted to go on that cruise. I wasn't working at the time, my husband does not beleive in wasting money on something as dumb(his words) as vactions(I still made sure we took one somewhere every year though), I was back in college and cruises are pretty expensive.

I cut out pictures of cruise ships, and vacation spots(Lots of palm trees, beaches, ocean scenes, words like vacation & family and stuff) and put them all over the fridge. I reflected on those pictures EVERY day. My kids thought I was insane. negative WH said "never gonna happen". I applied for jobs everywhere, started looking at cruise prices and dates to go. I got that job, I booked that cruise(somehow I had won the lottery that year and was able to put the down payment down on it...THAT was freaky cuz I hardly ever play the lottery!)and spring of 2010 we went on our family cruise vacation. It was awesome. Not just because of the places we went, but because I had done it. By myself. I paid for the whole thing, I booked and scheduled cars and planes and I was proud of myself.

Now on my fridge I have words like POWER, SERENTIY, PEACE, QUIET, STILL. I think I need to add some pictures, but I'm not sure of what. I still don't know what I want...does that make sense?

I want WH home. I don't want him home. I'm glad he's gone. I'm sad he's gone. I miss him. I don't miss him. I hate what he's done. I don't hate him. I love him. I hate him. I'm happy. I'm miserable. I'm doing it on my own. I don't like to be alone. I enjoy my alone time...and it goes on and on, back and forth.

Maybe if YOU make your vision board, you can share it with us. Scotland, you too.

Help us organize our thought process.

[tj]
@mitzie -

Try this:

I want Husband home. I don't want WS home. I'm glad WS is gone. I'm sad Husband is gone. I miss Husband. I don't miss WS. I hate what WS has done. I don't hate Husband. I love Husband. I hate WS. I'm happy. I'm miserable. I'm doing it on my own. I don't like to be alone. I enjoy my alone time...and it goes on and on, back and forth.

Also maybe you could separate the things that you can control from the things you can't control? Also you could try to be more specific about the happy things and the sad things?
[/tj]

H&G,

Since your sister is a practicing Bhuddist has she spoken to you about the karmic past foward rule? Perhaps you could ask her about this if she hasn't.

Christianity doesn't support ANY of the other major relious beliefs but it is an interesting theory.

Let me know your thoughts on it if you talk to her about it.

H&G:

I hope that the bowling/Piano test went ok. THis Plan B stuff of avoiding WS is tough. Becasue of sitchs like this. You will get better at it. If the WS is intent on breaking it, then there is nothing you can do sometimes. They WILL seek you out sometimes...

But that is on them.

As for your tax return... I see a refund of $3372 or $2272 if you can't qualify for the child tax credit.
Hubby will be more difficult, Any idea what his withholding amount is?
You state that the house is paid off, so your deductions are limited in TN. So the standard deduction should be available to both of you.
Where can I send my bill

(((H&G)))

LG

It didn't go well. For the first time ever, he parked where I told DS I would park. He was on the far end, on the left. I parked on the other end, on the right. My car was facing away from the building. I would stick my head out of my window every few minutes to see if DS was coming. One time, I stuck my head out to see WH, standing outside by the door. Evidently WH was looking at me because he waved. I ducked back in faster than a gopher ducks back into its hole, but it made me sick that he had that opportunity. He didn't come over to the car; DS finally came out about 15 minutes later.

DS scored a superior on his piano tests (Terms & Signs, Written Theory, Transposition, and Sight Reading). For this reason, it was worth allowing a little crack in my Plan B.

Wow, LG, I didn't even know about the child tax credit. I think I'll qualify.

WH claims married and one. I think he does claim the standard deduction every year, so I will, too.

LG, I'll happily send you my contact info if you like and it won't offend your wife. I believe in paying for expert advice and since I haven't personally touched a tax form except to sign it since I was 20 years old, I'd be happy to pay for yours. I realize you were making a joke, but I'm serious about this.

Thank you so much for your help. I truly appreciate it.

I've spoken to my sister about karma--that WH will get his karma in this life or the next, but that he's not mine to punish because that's bad karma for me. She said his karma may be to be unhappy for the rest of his life or to lose his job and family because of his actions.

I haven't discussed the karmic past forward rule, but I did just google it. It sounds fascinating if I am his love from a past life. If it's OW, then it's a crock.

I'll ask her about it. I'll let you know what she says.

Too bad about the parking and him waving but it happens.
We do our very best to avoid it and it happens.

As the book Surviving An Affair mentions on page 88:

___If there is accidental contact between the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse, the betrayed spouse should avoid angry outbursts, disrespect and demands.


Alas....you arranged to pick ds up where you believed with your heart and soul WH would not be and .....voila.....oops.

Just keep trying your best to avoid him.

If you run into him....no lovebusting.

Thanks, reading, for your comments--they've helped me feel better about it. I wonder if it was "disrespect" to not acknowledge his wave? Oh, that's silly--if I had waved back, he might have come over. I need to stop thinking so much!

There will be no angry outbursts, love busting, or demands. I don't want to speak to him at all. We go to court next month for child custody and spousal support. I don't want to see him before then or talk to him. What are we going to discuss? How he thinks I'm not entitled to spousal support? That will only lead to angry outbursts by each of us. Just not willing to go there with him right now.

Oh, meant to add that I have fine-tuned my pick-up instructions for DS. I will pick him up wherever his dad doesn't park. If WH parks in the side lot, I'll be in the front lot, etc.

I should have thought of this before, but at least I have a plan now.

There you go, a plan that YOU came up with to fix this hole in your Plan B.

My "dream" board was actually made BEFORE I found MB but AFTER the ILYBNILWY speech. I drew the pics with pencil crayons. I drew pictures of:
- 4 circles, in the favourite colours of DSx2, WH and myself, surrounded in a heart with a smile over top and all of the hearts are connected to each other(represents the four of us together, surrounded by love and HAPPY)
- a couch(I needed a new one, my Mom bought me 2 in the summer)
- a Dark blue Santa Fe(it's my FAV vehicle ATM, and WH owns one, HE TOOK MYYYYYYY CAR ARGH)
- a pool table(I have ALWAYS wanted one)
- green hills with a plane over top(supposed to represent Scotland, since I want to go there)
- Mickey Mouse(I want to take the kiddos there someday soon)
- a sunset over water(I want to travel somewhere where I can watch the sunset over water since I never have seen that before)
- a roller coaster(I hadn't been on a roller coaster in YEARS because of my weight and I was able to go on one with DS8 last June)
- a scale with my intended weight goal(don't ask because I am not telling )
- a school with the word "job" in it (because I would LOVE to work in a school)
- a graduation hat with a smiley face(because I want to go back to school and graduate from College or University)

I wrote 2014 on the top corner of the page too. I was thinking that would be the deadline to achieve these things. I hope between Mitzie and I, we have given you some ideas for your own dream board. BTW, I put mine on my bathroom wall, because I figured I would look at it at least twice a day.

Mitzie and Scotland, thanks for the ideas about the dream board. I've already got a few things I can put on one when I make it:

I want to go to Key West--I'd like to drive there with one or more of my kids.

I'll definitely put the word "RETIREMENT" on there--I recently found out that I can retire in 3 years; I could retire next year but need to have the health insurance for three years to be able to get it in retirement. I've always been on WH's policy and can't get on my job's plan until August.

I want a pet--small dog or a cat, but will wait for summer to do that. Mostly, I want a tuxedo (black and white) cat.

Well, that's all off the top of my head. I need to think about the future, but not tonight. Too painful.

It can be a fluid board, in that you can ADD to it as you think of new things you want for YOURSELF.

Thanks, Scotty. This one sentence means a lot to me. I thought I had it all figured out ahead of time, but there was a hole. I'm proud that I figured out a way to fix it.

Fixing that hole is so necessary--that one glimpse of WH has made me anxious and sad all over again. I need to have a good cry, but DS is here and I don't want him to see me crying. I'll weep myself to sleep later.

Peachy, the Strivectin neck cream is working--I can tell a difference after 5 days. The deep wrinkle filler just arrived today, so I'll let you know if I notice any difference there.

The neck cream is supposed to affect a real change; after about a month of using it twice a day, supposedly I can drop down to a maintenance plan of every other day.

The deep wrinkle cream just says to "reapply as necessary". I don't think that $50 tube will last very long.....;)

We've been there. I LOVE it there. As a matter of fact I would love to retire there. It pretty pricy though. Key West people think there chain of islands is it's own country(they tried to cecede from U.S. a while back)and thus it's like another world there. Put a picture of a conch shell on your board too...that's what they are 'The Republic of Conch'.


. Had one of these the other day. Cried so hard and so much that I woke up and my eyes were swollen! But, I did feel much better.

I always see this in Macy's and wondered if it worked. I have a deep brow line. My GF husband is a DR & gives 'the tox', but @ $375-450 a pop, waaay to expensive. $50 seems doable. I'm gonna give it a shot. Thanks guys.

Mitzie, how cool is it that you've been to Key West! I will put a conch shell on my dream board.

It's amazing how therapeutic a good cry can be. It lets it all out and then we're able to move on (at least for a few days).

I'll let you know how the deep wrinkle filler works. It's worth a shot--botox is so pricey!

I hope you have a Sunday filled with peace.

I don't believe in horoscopes, but read them anyway. Look at today's:

Sagittarius (WH)--You love someone with the kind of intensity and passion that you wish was bestowed upon you. But wait--is it possible that it is and just not by the person you think?

Capricorn (me)--You are very curious about your current company and will be inclined to prod for answers. But if you relax a bit, they will be forthcoming with all the information you want to know.

It must be true--it's in the stars!

Wh is a Capricorn!!! I hope it IS true!

Scotty,


I went to Scotland and England on a tour about 4 yrs ago. It was all inclusive, and the cost was quite reasonable! A friend and I went for 12 days, and we stayed in London for the first three days and saw all the sights there. Then, the tour co. took us by bus all up through England, into Scotland, and back down through England again and back to London. It was absolutely fabulous. We saw everything, everywhere, that we could dream of. We met Dukes and Duchesses, we toured castles, saw Shakespeare's birth home, it was fantastic.

And by going with an organized tour group, it kept the cost down and we got great discounts via the travel agency we booked with by booking and paying in advance.

That "dream" of yours can be a reality - start by going to the travel agency and talking to somebody there. You might be shocked at the prices of these tours! I was! We have hundreds of pictures of our time there, and we had a great time. My girlfriend and I had a once-in-a-lifetime trip. No kids, nobody else, and it was fantastic.

Do this for yourself. It is one thing that is no longer on my dream board. My H and put up a new dream destination, Alaska, and did that one too! Now that we have that one checked off....it has been replaced with a new trip destination, and that WILL HAPPEN!

Get the goal price up there by that photo, and put away just a little at a time. You CAN DO IT!

Thanx SB, I will look into it. And if I have no friends who are able to go, I will just need to go on my own. I KNOW I will get there, hey I put it on my dream board.

Scotty:

It would be a wonderful trip. We spent 10 days in Nova Scotia in 2002, and it was great. I have also been to England. Thank the Air Force for that.

Did not get to Scotland. But I will...

What's up H&G?

LG

I would like to go to Scotland--my father's great-great- (maybe one more great) grandfather came to North Carolina from Scotland in 1805. However, I'm afraid to fly (airplanes=metal tubes hurtling people toward their deaths!) so I don't guess I'll ever get there.

LG, nothing much is up. I've had a day of doing the necessary-but-mundane. I went grocery shopping. I did the laundry. I sat and sat and thought and thought about my DH--the husband I had before last year.

He wasn't good about special days on the calendar. I long ago gave him a permanent pardon for my birthday, Valentine's Day, Mothers' Day, and our anniversary. He worked long hours, on a swing shift for the first 20 years of our marriage, and keeping up with dates was impossible for him. He always more than made up for it at Christmas.

If I asked for towels, he bought me the finest towels he could fine. I would get multiple gifts--jewelry, new cell phone, portable dvd player when they were new and very expensive. He bought me everything I could have desired. He loved me.

I hope OW appreciates him and his generous nature. He no longer works a swing shift and he's probably sent her flowers for tomorrow. He sent me flowers a grand total of three times during our 32 years together.

I hate my wayward husband. I miss my dear husband.

And that's what's been going on.

You know H&G, the more you talk, the more we and our WH's sound alike. My WH used to give me presents and then there came a time when he no longer did, and when I asked he said, "I already have you." I replied with, "Yea, but it doesn't mean you will KEEP me." We both let our DH's off too easily. This is something we need to fix about ourselves for our next marriage(either with our current H or a new one, if that's what we wish.

Now, as far as that trip to Scotland, maybe WE can go together? We could bring some other BW's from MB and have a GRAND OLD TIME. We could even visit the MBers on that side of the pond. It would be AWESOME. Do I have a date? Remember, I haven't had a date for a LONNNNGGGG time and I dunno if I can take the rejection.

You're right, this is something we definitely need to work on. I often think that if I had valued myself more, he would have also.

I haven't had a date since 1978 (you were 3!) so thanks for asking me. I'd love to go with a group of MBer's or just with you. We could look up Harmony and see what's going on since she's woefully lax about posting her update.

Not that I am CERTAIN, but one of two possibilities are most likely with Harmony not posting(you reading this Harm?) She is either going completely AGAINST what she has learned at MB and doesn't want to get dinged for it, or she needed to take a break from MB to process her own stuff. I am hoping for the second one as it would serve her best.

Now, there are a few things you will fond out about your vision/dream board(how's that coming BTW/). The first is that you may start to consciously decide on things based on your dream board. That's a GOOD thing, it's what you want. The other thing you will discover, and this one is completely AWESOME about it, is that you will find that you are getting things checked off of your dream board and you didn't DO anything to achieve it. Like Mitz winning the lottery and being able to pay for her cruise. Some things, they will seem to just "happen" to you. And then, you will also learn how to focus on the positives that you receive that AREN'T on your board. Believe me, it is GREAT.

About the dream board--I'm going to pick up some supplies from my classroom (shhhh!) and get to work on it this week. I like doing things like this (drawing, pasting, etc.) and I'm looking forward to it.

About Harmony--I agree with you. I'm hoping it's the latter, too.

So far, so good for today. It may be another matter later, but for now I'm doing okay .

H&G:

Flamingo doesn't like to fly either. So getting to Scotland would be a problem.... We would FLY over, then take the QE2 ship back. So, no worrying about the flight back...

Also, 5 years ago, we had to fly, so we got new wills, and life insurance, and other things, so she was no longer worried, as MUCH, about the trip. If the plane crashed, then DS18 would be taken care of, no matter what.

The new security procedures are revolting to her now, so, not much traveling by plane now. We are going to Bermuda via Crise Ship in September, however!

A thought for you: You sat around, and thought and thought about H. Time to make plans for your weekend, to fill up that time. You need to visit your grandchildren more often, for example.

Start your Dream board. We have one also. Every Jan 1st, we put what we would like to accomplish on it. And carry over the prior years, or update, and add new, as required. It interesting to review the past years, and what we have accomplished.

LG

LG, I wish I had grandkids, but none so far.

It sounds like you do a Dream board for each year or do you carry over things from year to year?

I brought home some supplies and will work on mine tonight. I'll fill it up completely as time goes on.

I'm going to take my mother and son to eat at our favorite Mexican restaurant. Happy Valentine's Day to US.

It's up to you what you want to do with the dream board. I still have the same one, and it was the first one I had made. I was thinking about updating it as well. I need to make a bigger one, I have more dreams now.

And about planes, they are actually quite safe. I was more afraid in a 747 than I was in a Cessna. I was an Air Cadet and I learned all about planes. The plane could lose both wings and it would be possible to still land it. You won't catch me in a helicopter though. Even physics doesn't explain how they fly.

Scotty, I was born on and have always lived near a large military reservation where helicopters were the primary form of transport. I'm totally used to the whop-whop of the blades as they fly over my house. Helicopters seem normal to me.

Airplanes? Scary! When they lost a plane in the Everglades of Florida--buried so thick in the muck of the swamp that it was never seen again--I became fearful of airplanes. Not for me--I will need Xanax to ever get on one.

You will have Xanax and ME. I live in Niagara Falls and kinda near the helicopter landing pad for the tourist helicopters, so I see A LOT of helicopters all summer long. All it takes is one SMALL nick in the blade and that puppy comes crashing DOWN.

So, if this is too personal you don't need to answer, but what did you put on your dream board? BTW, what colour are your toes? HEHEHEHE

Scotty, maybe I should put Niagara Falls on my dream board.

I'm going for long term and short term dreams. I'm definitely going to Florida this summer but only as far as Jacksonville to see my brother. I'll also go to Kansas to see my sister and spend some time with her. Long term dreams--Scotland (may need to start taking the Xanax NOW!), retirement, and a new car (WH gave me the one I have for our 30th anniversary. It's nice, but tainted.) The car may actually be a short term dream. However, it's in WH's name, and I'd need to get him to sign the title over to me.

I spoke to my sister this evening. She's flying in to be here with me next month during the custody/support hearing. I am so grateful for this! I *can* do anything, but it will be so helpful to have her here by my side.

My toenails are still rose. Am I supposed to change it or something?

Nope, you don't NEED to change those tootsies, just wanted to make sure you were maintaining them.

Niagara Falls is beautiful all year round but I LOVE it in the winter. In the summer, there are a lot of places to go hiking. I live close enough to the falls that in the summer, I can hear them with my bedroom window open.

It's been a rough day but for no particular reason.

I did do something positive, though. I finally mailed in my re-certification application. I don't know why it has taken me months to do it except that with the rest of my life is in limbo, I haven't seemed to care about my career.

Ironic, since I'll need a job if the divorce is finalized for the first time since my 30-year-old was born.

Having a teaching job has been nice and it enabled us to save money for our retirement. We saved money on our older 3 kids college tuition fees because I am a public school teacher. I've enjoyed having the same vacation days as my kids (still do, with younger DS).

But all of that seems so unimportant now. I feel as if I'd have been more of the wife DH wanted if I'd stayed home as a full time wife and mother. He said something about this before he moved out.

This makes no sense because OW is a college professor, and she's never been a housewife.

He also resents that I was able to complete college in my 30s while he had to work. Funny, I never heard any of this until OW filled his head with nonsense. Besides that, he earns 3x my salary without a degree, so what does it really matter?

Somewhere, yesterday, I read about the things WS's bring up to justify their affairs. Maybe this is why I've had a bad day--I've been remembering lots of baffling things he has said to me since D-day.

The worst was that I said something about my sex drive being lower, and that's just the way it's going to be (didn't, BTW) 30 years ago, and he says he's never forgotten it. First of all, no one should be held accountable for something said 30 years ago. Secondly, I never said that or anything like it.

So, what the heck? How can anyone dispute faulty memories? I know it's supposed to be the rewiring of a wayward's brain to accept their moral failures and offer a justification for their actions, but does their accurate memory ever come back?

Is it bouncing around somewhere in their cranium, resurfacing during dreams and off-guard moments? Or will they always believe the incredible notions they've adopted?

Bottom line. We didn't meet a couple emotional needs and they were vulnerable to affairs.
It wasn't whether you worked or didn't. It wasn't if you said one thing or another sometime over the years. It was the day in, day out meeting of all five of their most important emotional needs.
Rest assured, OP does not meet all five either. Nope. The wayward just found someone to meet the ones we didn't and mistake it for love. Cause we met the other needs. When we are not there....the needs the OP doesn't meet won't be met and the gap will allow for more dissatisfaction/cheating/whatever.

Do not even start with your career/lack of career, how much you traveled/didn't travel, comments you made about sex drives/or not.

Bottom line=five needs met.

Now we all know. Now we are smart beyond smart.

I've been told this many times before, but I still need to see it in print. Thank you for this.

I guess I'll believe it if he ever tries to contact me. He hasn't and that's sad and scary to me.

I wonder if his new need to call the kids is because he can no longer hear about them from me?

I think I'm obsessing too much today. Time to take DS to his piano lesson.

H&G, today is like any other day in Plan B, a day to process what has happened to you. Why one day/moment is harder or different than the rest lies in what stage you are in in that moment, and that can change frequently. Let it happen. Don't get stuck but don't avoid it either. You need to get through this. Everyone has different times it takes for their own healing, and none of those timetables are wrong.

Focus on taking that next step. When it is really bad, just focus on getting through that moment and KNOW that the next moment, you could be smiling. Remember that. Remember that it doesn't matter what you did before, it's what you do TODAY and TOMORROW that counts.

Remember when I PROMISED that if you stuck to MB and the plans, you would feel better in a year? How do you think I can PROMISE that(since I don't take promises lightly)? It's because I feel better. I feel better than I have IN YEARS. I KNOW who I am. I KNOW what I want. I AM PROUD of who I will become. I don't feel that way every moment, but I do most of the time now. I need to look back at my thread and my journal to remember the pain I went through because I sometimes forget. And the further into this I get, the less I remember. Weird huh?

I remember a couple of days after I started Plan B. I was so sad. I took the kids to the falls to watch the Olympic torch arrive. I remember listening to the Black Eyed Peas song, "I got a feeling." I remember that I smiled. I "caught" myself enjoying a moment in life, and I was shocked and I even felt a little guilty. I didn't think I would feel happy ever again. But I DO. And now, the good days, they come around more often and they seem to outweigh the bad ones.

H&G, let me tell you, I think we are living paralell lives!

WH also told me "things I did and said that he remembers...FROM 20 YEARS AGO!!" and he asked me WHY I did them and WHY I said them.
Honest to goodness. I was dumbfounded to say the least. PLUS all the things he remembered were NEGATIVE things. Not things like the first Valentines we shared together I tied about 40 valentine baloons on his truck, or all the cards I'd send him (we lived about 25 miles apart and didn't see each other everyday), nooooo he has to remember that back in 1990...YOU did this blah, blah, blah and YOU said this blah, blah, blah. Plus, some of things he said were mixed up with OTHER things that happened back then but in his head they all happened at the same time.

Granted my WH IS an alcoholic and that does wack-out your brain, but nothing at all that he's ever done compared to that. Not even the 1st A. When he was in A#1 it was all about what I hadn't done in the past year...so I KNOW it's not about what I did or didn't do because for the last 3 years I HAVE been doing those negative things he didn't like. That's probably why this time around he had to go back 20 years,there was nothing to criticise about me now.

Please don't take it personal. Yeah it hurts because they sound so truthful when they say it, and in their minds' eye it is the truth...as they see it. Not reality. Nothing in their mind speaks of reality. It's justification for their guilt they feel. I'm sure of it.

HOW could anyone be so selfish and how can someone just erase 20 years of life and start over, like the last 20, er... 46 years of his life never happened? And the tiny bit of memories that do weep in are delusional and misconstrued.

I also wonder if they ever regain the TRUE memories. I hope so.

Scotty, I've had a few moments of happiness since my birthday. They always come as a complete surprise but I take them in and realize that I'm getting better.

Yesterday's difficulties with everything just hit me broadside. It hurt like a fresh, new pain instead of the one I carry with me at all times.

Although I had mentally prepared myself so well for Valentine's Day, I had a big let-down yesterday. Darned faint-but-eager hopes....

I remember your promise, and I believe it. I've just got to get through my "first" of each of the holidays.

I think I'll manage St. Patrick's Day with no problems.

Mitzie, I've got to go to work, but it's nice to know that our WHs are very similar. I thought I was going crazy when I listened to the fogged up statements coming from WH's mouth. Ditto that all he said was negative.

He even told me that the past 20 years were the worst years of his life--that he had wasted those years by staying with me and the kids.

H&G - WOW! So far I've only gotten 'I really, really hate you.' That 20 years statement is brutal. Sending my support, hang in there!

H&G:

Something I learned around here.... Those past hurts, and slights, and blah, blah, blah?

Those are the things that unravel the fabric of the marriage.

Flamingo can list for you all the awful things I did 20 years ago. Things well before the M, before DS's birth, before and during the A.

Oh, yeah, SHE tried to talk about it. It came out as nagging, or coniptions when she would explode in frustration. Over whatever it is. I have my little touchstones as well.

When she did this, or that, just like you got from your WH. When you enter into an A, and start sliding deeper and deeper, it is real easy to look for ALL the points of divergence in the marriage.

And you start poishing, and protecting those hurts, and resentments, and before long, you are deep into a relationship with someone else, because you are so seperated from this person you are married too. Things may have appeared great to you. And if you had asked your spouse, you may have gotten the answer that "Everything was FINE." It wasn't. He couldn't talk about what was wrong, becasue he didn't have the tools to discuss, nor did the spouse have the tools to deal with that critisism.

MB gave us those tools. That is why I am interested in your sitch. You described what the two years prior to the A was like in your M. You were out taking care of everything EXCEPT your H. Sure, this worked for years. But.....OW showed up.

It evolved slowly, or quickly. It doesn't matter. He was feeling left behind in the marriage, and an afterthought. Was this intentional on your part? No. Did you make a choice to have an affair to fix it? No. He did. He could have choose to look up a website, and decide to do things different too.

So, when you get the list of gievences from your WH, and some may dismiss it as just marital re-writes, it isn't always. Sometimes, it is a look into the things that he should have told you about back then. You two should have addressed some of these things. So that you learned better tools for avoiding problems that start small and grow larger.

Much of this is water under the bridge. And you can't fight his perception of things NOW, (Look at all the bad things you did to him!) by stating look how many wonderful things we did do. It isn't computing to him, right now.

THAT is what MB taught me and Flamingo. I learned a whole lot more from here to. It is unfortunate that not all waywards can have the epipany moments like I had. And then continued on the path. (I would have liked to find this place 12 years ago...)

He is tearing you down now, to make himself look better for having an A. Blaming YOU for his choices. You can listen to the specific items, and maybe, address them, if you would like to. If you reconcile, it is a place to start a new style of conversation between you.

I still think your WH is redeemable. But he has to make the choice to come home.

(((H&G)))

LG

LG--I'll post a longer reply tonight, but for now I'll just say, "Bingo. You've nailed it."

Thanks.

I think your comments are very astute. That's exactly what happened with me and my WH and exactly the way it happened.

I would ask him what was wrong and he would say "Nothing." I would try, but without him also trying it was like being Sisyphus--I never accomplished anything.

Now, when confronted with the enormous hurt he has caused me, he always says, "I didn't think you loved me. I didn't think you would care."

If that's true, why did he lie to me? Why did he go to extremes to cover up the affair? Why is he defensive? He has allowed her to put many words in his mouth and many ideas about our marriage into his head.

He has gunny-sacked all of the hurts from 32 years of marriage. It seems nothing is too far back to drag out to justify his actions.

It's all rather unfair.


I don't know if he'll ever make that choice, although he has dangled that when speaking to me, my sister, his parents, etc. (The old "someday, I may be back and we'll just be out a few thousand dollars for the divorce" statement.)

I think he's mightily afraid that he has made a poor choice, but he's so deep in his fog he may never come out of it. (Although, rationally, if he knows at some level that this is a mistake, I have a legitimate reason for hope.)

My counselor told me today that although she thinks it's highly likely the affair will end, she doesn't see me being able to go back to him. She says my hurt is too deep to ever forgive him.

I don't know about that. I believe that MB will give us all of the tools to recover our love and marriage.

Forgot to mention: he emailed me today. Just a one sentence query of whether I'm going to see any of DS's teachers tomorrow during conferences.

I did not answer and deleted it.

Seriously, does he think I'd go with him?


I hadn't blocked him from my email because he never emails me. (Just like he never parks on the side of the building where DS bowls. . .)

He keeps surprising me. I've blocked him now.

You read it though, right? Expect a low soon.

Be honest with yourself, how did you feel when you saw he emailed you?

Honestly, I felt sick to my stomach. It was in the reading pane on my email because it was the most recent one received.

I need to go to the conferences, but don't want to run into WH there. The thought makes me ill. I will no longer pretend to be happy in front of others; I will ask him to leave if he tries to join a conference with me. If he won't, then I'll just get up and go.

If he wants to be a single parent, then it's about time he faced the reality of single parenting.

I do not have to pretend to be friends with my abuser.

And that's how I feel tonight.

H&G:

YOU GO GIRL!!!

And really, would you be friends with an adulterer? Didn't think so.

H&G:

The more you pull away, the more he gets in contact?

Parks close by.
Waves.
Sends an email.

All of them saying, "H&G, are you there? am I still important to you?"

Stay dim. This is on him.

Need any help with the tax return?

LG

I am trying to not read too much into his actions, but it does seem positive.

I have one quick question about my taxes--must I claim the three thousand dollars he gave for household bills last year?

No.

H&G,

Oh, don't fool yourself sister, he's a missin' Hope & Glory alright.

Let him stew. (add some fine wine and a pinch of salt while you're at it)

He's losing you and he KNOWS it, but how to get you back? I don't think WS have a clue and that scares them and confuses them.

I went to parent-teacher conferences to find out how DS is doing. Suffice it to say that he's back in the technological Stone Age--no games or laptop until he's back to passing all subjects.

Sigh.

No sign of WH at the conferences. A good thing!

When I got home, I checked my email and found one from my attorney. He forwarded to me the interrogatories WH's attorney sent him. Thirty-one pages of questions. For what reason do I have to list every lie I've told my husband? I haven't lied to my husband, except when I went on my initial consultation with my attorney. I told him I had an after-school meeting. I also have to list all of the lies my WH has told me. That will be quite a book....

I've got to get all of the financial documents for the previous 10 years together and present them to WH's attorney in an ordered manner.

I've got to provide proof from any source available for any or all of the questions--I'll be contacting my work, my doctors, my counselor, etc.

And I've got all of 30 days to get it done.

It's overwhelming.

Divorce is not for sissies.

H&G:

Nice of your attorney to just shuffle that pile of crap on to you.

Call his lazy butt up and tell him to TELL YOU what you need to provide.

A 31 page list of EVERYTHING does NOT need to be provided by you.

You can DECLINE any particular request and THEY have to ask the judge to support thier request for that info.

And what did your attorney send HIM For discovery? Is thier a summons for OW? A request for phone logs? Credit Card receipts? Cell phone pictures?

Two, yes TWO, can play the game.

I never heard the "every lie I have told you line" You answer, "I only ever lied in the bedroom, by saying that the SF was anything beyond ordinary" "He liked when I told him he was powerful and a wonderful lover" "So, I told him that"

Or, you just say, "I never lied to you"

And when they depose you, they will ask you that question again, you will say "I never lied to him" and then they will ask you about every lie that he can remember. And ask you to state "that was a lie". Over and over again.

So you have to depose him first. Actually, second, after you depose OW. Then you can ask him about ALL HIS LIES. Could be fun.

No, its not. Its BRUTAL. Marriage is for love, Divorce is for pain. Unrelenting and brutal pain.

Administered using the court system to give it the patina of justice.

You have to have a nice sit down with your lawyer. Find out EXACTLY what you will be required to answer in discovery. Don't call ANYONE till you have something more than an email from your attorney.

LG

LG--good questions! My attorney told me to answer any of the questions that I can, but clearly I can't answer some of them. For instance, I don't know of any expert witnesses that may be called to testify.

My WH had to complete a similar discovery document, but without the questions about lying and some of the other stuff that I have to. It somewhat appears to me that they are trying to find out how strong our case is against him--having to list all of the instances of his lies and vacations in the past year. The list boggles my mind!

I also have to list all of my negative aspects as a parent (difficult--like one of those darned employment interview questions--"What is the most negative thing about you as a worker?") and all of my positive aspects. Ditto for WH--I have to do the same about him. That promises to be a lot of fun.

My attorney will send discovery questions to Dumpy (OW--my WH calls her "Dumplin'".) She will be deposed and will (keep your fingers crossed!) have to testify in court.

My attorney has requested all cell phone logs and emails from the past year. He has previously told me that he will subpoena my WH's employer for the records, since WH will probably not be able to provide these logs (cell phone and email are provided by his employer.)

I have all credit card records, current until the last month he lived with me. He has been asked to provide all such records, but only has records for the last 5 months.

I will contact my attorney and ask him what specifically I should answer and what specific records I should provide. I've learned that what is stated in these legal docs isn't necessarily what will be sufficient to answer the request.

I'm not going to be calling anyone or doing anything but giving my interrogatories to my attorney to vet before they are sent to WH's attorney.

I don't know how much input my attorney will welcome from me regarding who is deposed first, but I will definitely discuss it with him. My attorney did tell me that, per my request for a slow divorce, he wouldn't depose WH for a couple of months after our March court date.

Thanks for having my back, LG--you always give me a lot to think about!

H&G:

This line:

You want to slow DOWN the divorce, buty ou wnat the PAINFUL stuff to happen first...

Ask for an early date to depose them. Specifically, ask for OW to be deposed FIRST, then WH. They will insist on doing you early as well, tell them that they filed first, so, you want to find out why first.

LG

Sigh.

I received another fat packet of papers from my attorney today--this time, it was WH's Answers to my Interrogatories and request for production of documents. Fun reading, especially the part where, when asked to state and describe each incident in which he has made a false statement to or about his spouse, he answered, "Offensive and objectionable question and I do not understand this question."

Really?

He also said that asking him to name OW and list all dates of encounters and all monies spent on her was objectionable and offensive. That's okay--I'll provide my attorney with this information (except what he's spent on her since he moved out.)

LG, I'll email my attorney this weekend to clear up how far back I need to go with the financial records and ask some other pertinent questions. I just haven't had time to sit and think and write the email.

The cover letter from my attorney that was with today's document stack asked that I complete the questions and provide all financial documentation within 10 days. Oy.

H&G:

What did I tell you. "objectionable and offensive" IS his answer to all those questions.

Your answers can be short and to the point as well.

Sorry you have to go though this.

LG

HopeandGrace, welcome to my world. I've been in the legal field for most of my adult life. As far as the request for production, you either have the documents or you don't. No one will expect you to create docs or to go out of your way (i.e., locating stuff from way back.)

If you don't have them, then say so. Your attorney can object on the basis of the requests being unduly burdensome, harassing or overly broad, and a whole host of other objections.

As for the rogs and the "every lie" question, I don't think I've ever seen that question either and I've seen some CRAZY requests. An objection could be made on the basis that the request is solely for the purposes of harassment and lack of specificity.

Caution: Both of you can object all day long. HOWEVAH, there may come a time where either of you are called before the Judge who can ORDER both of you to answer them (within reason).

Just do your best and let your attorney protect you.

Princessmeggy, unfortunately I have records going back to 1999. I'm going to ask my attorney if I can submit 5 years' worth--it will be tons of copying just for that much.

I've answered all of the "fun" questions about WH and myself in the interrogatories; today I have to do the financial questions.

LG, it's not going to be a problem stating that I never lie because I don't. WH even commented on this last summer to my mother and in December to my sister. If he has a list of lies that I've purportedly stated, I can easily refute them.

For all responses to the interrogatories concerning myself, I have been brief and to-the-point. For responses concerning WH, I've been elaborate--as the document asks me to do.

Gotta take DS bowling...

Thanks for your responses Meggy and Lousy Golfer.

I totally bailed on gathering the paperwork yesterday. I just didn't want to do it. I've got to buckle down and do it today.

WH is probably with Dumpy in GA but, surprisingly, he called DS yesterday to ask about how his bowling had gone.

He hasn't made contact with anyone while with Dumpy for more than 3 months; he normally would have waited until Monday to contact DS.

I wonder if this is a sign that Plan B is working? I'm trying very hard to not give too much credence to his actions, but it does make me wonder if everything is okay in fantasy land.

My lawyer just emailed a response back--three years should be sufficient. That's only about 12 to 15 inches of files to go through.

Whew.

This is what I get for being married to an anal-must-save-every-receipt husband.

The jerk.

H&G, don't get caught up in thinking about where WH is and who he is with, and ESPECIALLY about WHY he called DS. It could be that he is getting comfortable in his "new life: and it could be that OW was out for a walk, it could be that WH didn't know what day it was. Who knows? And, WHO CARES? Not YOU. You are a Plan B goddess.

I can understand why you would NOT want to do any of the paperwork, you took your time, now buckle down. When you need to cry, cry. Also, post here. Then when you are done, do something SPECTACULAR for yourself. Maybe you could go get a mani? a pedi? A new outfit? Do something that will make you feel good.

LOL--I thought it said "Maybe you could go get a man!

I started sputtering "But, but...." and then read it more closely.

Thanks for always having some common sense advice for me, Scotty. I truly don't know what I'd do without you.

I'm off to finish the job.

Pshaw. I'm a Plan B novice, but I'm getting there. You, however, truly are a Plan B goddess. You're a constant source of admiration, even when you have a minor lapse, because you always address it and move forward.

I've just spent 3 hours downloading and printing bank statements and locating other documents. I'm about a third of the way through with assembling all requested documents.

Keeping a calendar of the times WH has contacted or seen DS will be to my advantage. He saw him only 7 times in January and, so far this month, only 3 times. Waywards are lousy parents. Of course, I have to submit a copy of my calendar, too. Yuck. In some parts, it's rather personal....

I guess it's because I've spent so much time going through our records, but WH is much on my mind today. I hope I spend as much time in his mind as he does in mine.

Yeah, I know, I've got to stop thinking about him--just can't today.

(((H&G)))

It's normal to think about him when you are going through your past on paper, as you are today. What I would wish for you is that you realize the benefits of a dark Plan B and why it is so important NOT to see, or hear about your WH in the future. This should help you in those dark times that may lay ahead.

Also, make sure you take care of yourself and pamper yourself afterwards.

Scotty, my Plan B has been impeccably dark for 3 weeks. I'm rather proud of myself. I shopped online tonight and ordered myself a wrap-dress, new shoes, a cute scarf, and a beautiful purple top--there's my reward!

I've spent the past 3 hours working seriously hard at completing the interrogatories and request for documents. UGH--it's taking forever and I even cheated by looking at WH's answers (same basic info on bank accounts, etc.)

I think I'll be lucky to be done with this by Thursday night. I want to get it to my attorney by Friday.

I'm so glad I'm not an attorney. This stuff makes me want to bang my head on the kitchen table. If anyone reading this thinks he/she may be divorced in the near future, get all of your ducks in a row now while you have the leisure time to do it.

Woo Ha!

on the dress.............way to go girl!

Discovery (what you're doing now with the paperwork) IS a pain in the backside. Once you complete it, your attorney (more like his paralegal/legal assistant) gets to go through it all and edit, add objections, etc. Welcome to my world.

Good job on staying dark and treating yourself. I think the ROGS alone are worth some new jewelry!

Reading, I'm thinking this dress would look nice in court--it can either be skanky or churchy depending on how it is wrapped.

Meggy, I'm totally with you on getting new jewelry for completing these ROGS! I NEED either a new bracelet or a new ring. I'll probably get a bracelet; I haven't been able to make myself remove my wedding band yet. I'm still married even if my WH thinks he isn't.

I just hope whomever edits the ROGS doesn't remove OW's name and place of work. I want her name to appear as often as possible.

There ya go! Treat yourself.

As for the ROGS, your attorney works for you. Unless he gives you an absolutely convincing reason why you should NOT name OW, then you can insist that it stays. (Caveat: listen to your attorney because you ARE paying him for his advice.) You'll be the one signing the "verification" that the answers are true and to the best of your knowledge. And remember, whatever you "answer" is as good as testimony and can be used to impeach your live testimony when the time comes.

Well, Meggy, that last line is just plain scary. I'm a very non-confrontational person and can't stand the thought of being cross-examined.

The ROGS do ask me to name any person or persons either I or my spouse has had an extramarital relationship with and provide dates of all meetings, etc. WH refused to answer a similar question, stating that since he has admitted to having an extramarital affair that it was objectionable and offensive. That's okay, honey, I took care of it for you!

I hate the entire divorce process. I don't want to do this at all.

I know you do, we all do. It's nasty business and it hurts like heck. It is necessary though to protect you. A lot of people have walked before you. I was within days of my divorce being finalized when I nonsuited it. I thought I was going to be divorced. I hated the whole thing too. It was so sad.

((HopeandGrace))

H&G don't worry about not being able to take off your wedding ring yet. I didn't take mine off until last summer, my WH had been living with OW for more than 6 months at that time. I am also still married, although the ring has been removed(it was a step I needed to take at the time). I replaced the wedding band with a family ring containing two birthstones, one for each child. It's a ring that has 2 heart shaped stones and DSx2 names are engraved on the sides. I needed something there because it felt weird not to have a ring on that finger after so many years. I can't imagine what it is like for someone who has been married for so much longer.

Good job on the new duds. Accessorize, Accessorize, Accessorize.

PrincessMeggy, I'm ever hopeful that the judge will dismiss WH's complaints and then I can non-suit mine.

Ridiculous hope, but there it is.

Pardon me whilst I ramble.

I've got to unburden to someone and I've bugged the pee out of my sister lately.

I've found out that I need to work until I'm 60 in order to be able to have medical insurance after I retire. I could retire earlier if I had 20 years of employment. Of course, my 20th year will be the year I turn 60. With the economy the way it is, I don't dare retire earlier and try to find a job with health benefits.

This is so infuriating--I would be able to retire if my dumb-headed WH wasn't divorcing me. If he wasn't involved in an affair. If the karma bus wasn't repeatedly running over me and backing up over me to run over me again.

I'm so afraid for my future. It looms ahead and overshadows my life. Alone. Working at a job that is more than I can handle right now. Alone. Unhappy. Alone. I'm 54 years old and I'm in love with a man who doesn't love me anymore.

WH called tonight. I picked up the phone and took it to my son to answer. WH never asks about me. He has moved on. Why can't I?

Is there any hope? I can't find any tonight.

Talk about low swoop of the roller coaster,

the karma bus isn't running over you unless you did something we don't know about.

You are just having to re-direct until you find the new course.

It is too bad you wanted to retire earlier and feel you can't...perhaps something will come up in the next couple of years to fix that in your favor. Being 60 is the new 40? Okay?

Now, you aren't getting older, you're getting better (remember that saying).

You ARE moving on. You WILL get through this situation. You WILL do fine if you keep with the plan.

You know what? Probably when you least expect it, you will see that things are in your favor in life (vs WH's). For sure, you will continue to discover your strength and grace. Continue to work to understand that it all turns good down your road.

Well you talk about being able to retire and darn it, I can't even figure out what I want to be because being a cashier in a retail store is NOT the job I want to retire from. I want a CAREER.

My WH doesn't really ask about me either, at least if you ask DS10, which I had in the past. But, I have overheard what DS10 said to WH and he didn't HAVE to ask because DS10 TOLD him EVERYTHING. When I asked DS10 why, he said, "I talk about the fun things." How could I argue with that? I dunno, so I didn't. You don;t know if WH thinks about you or not.

Now, I want you to understand and realize something. You feel this way TODAY because......and this is a BEAUT, because what have you been doing for the past 3 days? That's right, you have been thinking about your WH. It's to be expected and the reason you need to take extra care of yourself after you do something like this.

So, grieve, get through this, and lean on whoever you need to. I am CERTAIN that although you feel like a burden to your sister, she doesn't feel that way.

I can give you a virtual hug, but nothing helps like the real thing.

Also, I wanna tell you, I am actually thinking about us going to Scotland together. I would LOVE that. I am excited about something in my FUTURE, and YOU helped with that. Thank you

Reading, I worry about the karma bus not because of something I've done in my current life but because I've had a terrible life. Maybe I was Hitler in a past life to merit what my present life has been. Silly, but everything seems to be spiraling out of control and so far from my wishes that karma seems the only explanation.

I guess it's pity party time. Makes me wonder what's the use of taking AD's if I can still hurt this much.

I've got to go to work. It will be, as they all are, a long day.

Hiya Hope

I have been missing you! Sorry to hear you are having such a tough time, its not always going to be like that you know? Not unless you want it to be, and I doubt that very much.



I know that feeling, when you feel as though you have chewed someones ear off relentlessly, but your sister loves you and I am sure wants to help you, so don't feel as though you are a burden! You would do the same right?



Hope - the future is scary - I am scared - I am so frightened about leaving my home - where do i go what do i do?

I can relate to how you are feeling.

There are many more thoughts that go through my head, but you have to get some control over it.

You cannot put your happiness in someone else's hands, particularly someone that is toxic in your life right now.

You are responsible for your own happiness.

It sounds to me as though you are having a low day, as your previous post was more positive.

I am thinking of you, and way to go on the wrap dress!

Do you drive to work? Wack your favourite tune on as high as you can and sing out loud!

Go easy on yourself, you are going through a tough time, all your feelings are normal.

Thinking of you today!! Your going to be ok and your doing well girl!!!

{{{{{{{{{Hope}}}}}}}}}}}

HAHAHA I thought it said man too!!!

Okay then, if it IS karma from a previous life....maybe you are near the end of your paying the piper.

Your long days are so very normal at the point of the plan you are in.

Obviously, having to deal with D paperwork is going to even make it rougher BUT keep as dark as you can and that is the BEST path to going out of the despair zone.

The first few months is the worse. You have to work through everything over and over and over again in your mind and spirit to get to a good place. You read the MB books constantly (I did), the threads that inspire you to have focus, find ways to sleep, work, have your life create joy.

It takes a while to release the illusion of control, to learn to be still, to learn to refocus to ourselves.

If your WH comes back sooner vs later, you will be filled with joy but have less skills developed from the time with yourself. I think that there are pluses to both outcomes (short plan B vs long plan B). Just accept that either will work FOR you.

Meanwhile. Talk with your physician about the ADs regularly to revisit how they are helping you cope.

Scotland, Reading, and Harmony--a BIG hug of thanks to you all (or y'all as we say in the South). Thanks for the support--I made it through the day. I still feel gutted--just absolutely gutted, but I made it.

I've called my doc to see about increasing my ADs. I'll never make it through court without an increase.

I think I'm perhaps the most ill-suited person ever for what has happened to me and my life. I've done everything I can to be a stronger person--go to an IC, take ADs, Ambien, etc.--but I'm still just as messed up and just as devastated as I was when I learned about this in August.

I wonder if I'm just hurting myself by staying in Plan B and if I should just give it all up for Plan D. I think staying in Plan B gives me false hope that the future will be any different from the way it seems to be going. It seems like it's written in stone somewhere that this is my fate: to be divorced.

Please, I'm not trying to abandon Plan B. I have no intention of doing that. I'm just as far down as I've been in a long while and feel that everything is filled with futility. Why care if I talk to him or not? It won't change anything.

No 2x4s, please. I can't take it today.

Your going to be ok Hope. You really are.

You can do this, you are a strong woman.

Cry if you need to cry.

We are all behind you, right with you.

No 2 x 4 s. We are all just hear for you.

Ditto.

There is nothing wrong from you. Going thru the D motions and all the paperwork makes you want to be like an ostrich and stick your head in the sand and hope it all goes away. Been there, done that.

What I'd do is set aside maybe an hour a day to deal with the interrogatories and info and then do something fun and reward yourself for taking good care of you.

Right now it's hard. But when the paperwork is don, it will be ok and feel normal sort of once again.

Fwiw, I think there's hope. Heck the only reason my sitch ended up in a remained divorce was b/c the ow was pregnant and it was too much for me. I do not think your wh will be happy and if he does anything STOOPID with the ow, he will probably end whatever it is quickly and regret what he might do.

Heck, even my xh on the 2nd anniv of our divorce or close to it, wished he could have come home. I seriously wanted no part of him, especially since then he was married.

And you are going to be happy! Hear me sweetie! You ARE GOING TO BE HAPPY!

God has a plan. He gave you MB and strength and love. That's powerful stuff. And we can't guess what HE will do wonderfully for you and what all wonderful things are ahead. You must simply trust. for me, it was divorce and recovery of ME and to become the sole parent of my child. In due time, God had me meet THE RIGHT man, at the right time, after my heart healed and we're the family God wanted for me all along. My son is overjoyed too.

There's another friend of mine who recovered his M here. He became divorced and remarried his wife almost two years ago. They are happily remarried and it's been such a lovely blessing to know them all.

Your future isn't sealed. Nothing bad is going to happen. You just put everything in God's hands and in the meanwhile, do all you can do as a woman to protect yourself and your finances and family. That's what your job is to do now and let God deal with the wayward. Trust me...you do not have to lift a finger. HE will deal with the wayward.

I saw that happen and everything evil my xh and the ow (women) did 100 percent unravel and fall down and crumble over a period of five years. I also saw during five years, God turn me into a beautiful changed butterfly and stronger and more loving mom and woman than I could have ever become, had I not endured the greatest trials of my life.

I am going to tell you this and listen close
you are NOT ill suited for this happening in your life AND however you felt and feel now
WE ALL FELT THE SAME

We all wondered if plan D was preferable to plan B.

My summation from my experience so far

Plan B is best even IF you follow the path of plan D too.

Plan B protects your heart and soul and creates the ability to recover your own life.

You go into it and stay into it indefinitely (until the affair ends or you have minimal love for H and are completely indifferent to his affair or forever to avoid being part of the affair scenario)

Believe me when I say that you are just where any of us would be in your same situation. There are variances to each marriage and affair and the path but we betrayed all feel those crap-o feelings and plan B is the best tonic even if you must grieve until you stop grieving.

Thanks to you all. You have given me such comfort, such support. What would I do without you.

Harmony, I've so missed you. Thanks for being here.

Peachy, I've added part of your post to my signature. BTW, the Stravectin Neck Cream is working! I'm not-so-wild about the stuff for facial creases.

Reading, you continually wow me with your words of wisdom. You are always succinctly on-target with what you say.

Big hugs to all of you. You've done good today!

H&G, I want to echo what my fellow posters have already said and tell you something else.

I am in Plan B. I have been in Plan B for more than 14 months. I had MANY days in the beginning where people were telling me that I was "strong" and a "superstar." I didn't feel that way. I felt defeated and torn down. Notice how i said "felt?" I don't feel that way anymore. I sometimes feel sad, but I am stronger than I was. I owe it ALL to this place and to the MB plans.

It's okay to feel defeated and sad. It's okay to question what you want to do. What happens when you feel that way? What do YOU do? I would routinely think about ending Plan B, even talking to WH again(I know, right?). I would even fantasize about what I would say, what he would say. Then, I would be still and pray. I would ask for the RIGHT path. Then, I would be at peace knowing that I AM doing the right thing. I AM on the right path.

H and G, I would most strongly urge you not to "choose" between Plan B and Plan D. If you must go through a divorce, you will need Plan B more than ever.

You will not have WH/XWH rubbing the divorce and his girlfriend in your face in a sick attempt to normalize the situation.

You will not have to listen to his offers to be "friends" with you.

You will not have to see him and be set back to square one every time you do.

As I always say: "Plan B - it ain't just for married folks anymore."

Seriously - just stay right where you are and keep the darkness for now. If and When WH ever turns into H, he'll find a way to turn on the light. But you do NOT want him unless and until he does.

I've read and reread your posts, gals, and I'm no longer in free fall. I've hit a level patch and I soon hope to be chugging back upward like the Little Engine Who Could.

There's a lot of comfort for me in reading these thoughts, the SAME thoughts, expressed in 5 or 6 or 7 different voices. It validates what I'm going through and doing and feeling.

I guess I'm trying to say that when I reached my lowest point, you all pulled together to get me out of the abyss.

Thank you from the bottom of my broken heart. Love MB and love the personal support I've gotten here.

Y'all rock!

Very pleased your feeling better Hope, you made it through a dark day and came out on top.

You rock lady!

It was nothing. Just paying it forward.

I've had a much better day today.

My doctor's nurse called back and I'm to double my AD starting tonight. I'll have to go see him next month.

I went to see my IC and she helped me, too. I think this downward spiral began last week when she said that she did believe that WS would break up with Dumpy sooner or later, but didn't believe that I would be able to recover my marriage with him because of my anger.

We talked a lot about him and about how he's possessed by an alien. His words are not his own--they're Dumpy's words. I explained to her that this was how I knew I could recover our relationship: I know he's not himself at this time. He looks like my husband and his voice sounds like my husband but he is definitely NOT my husband.

My IC understood what I was getting at. She changed her position on the possibility of recovery.

I also told her how the forum I participate in--Marriage Builders--really helped me yesterday. She thought it was great that I've found another avenue of support.

All in all, it was a great day when compared to yesterday. I'm not going to work on the interrogatories tonight. I'll suck it up and get it all done this weekend. I need an emotional break from it all.

Thanks again to all of you for your support. You really helped and made a difference yesterday.

Even DrH says that he can't tell you which marriage will survive and which one won't. I don't suppose your IC is better at this than DrH.

So, what have you done in the past couple of days to take care of yourself? Did you exercise(channeling a bit of Harmony )? Did you do anything to help yourself heal?

Scotty, yesterday I just gave way to the tears. I cried and cried. Today, I didn't get home until past 5--I was here (but not seen) when WH picked DS to take him to dinner. I'm not sure why I included that tidbit, except to say I stayed strong and didn't cry or seek out WH.

One thing that was a real positive today was that class pictures were taken. Unlike the past few years when I would try my darnedest to hide behind a student, this year I stood proud. When I saw a small proof of the picture, I was amazed at how good I looked. Losing 65 pounds has really made a difference, and I'm only 7 pounds away from my goal weight of 160. Not a bad weight for someone 5'8" tall.

My sister called--we haven't been in contact the past few days because of her work schedule. I think if she'd been available to prop me up, I wouldn't have bottomed out as low as I did.

From the Info I Didn't Ask for But Got Anyway Department: When DS returned from dinner with his dad he said that WH told him he wants to spend more time with him. DS didn't comment. WH said he guessed DS hates his guts. DS said he didn't hate him but he hates this whole situation. WH said he guessed anyone would hate it.

End of conversation.

Effect on me? None at all.

The increase in AD has hit me hard. I'm so tired and fuzzy-headed today.

At least I'm not crying......

Let the physician know. You might get good advice on how to deal with the dosage (maybe they will recommend you take it down a notch or something).

Reading, thanks for the suggestion. I was just complaining and pretty out of it at school today. I told my students that I had taken a anti-histamine and it had made me very tired. I should have stayed home.

I went through the same thing when I first began taking Celexa and with my last dosage increase. The fatigue abates after 3-4 days. I've just got to stick it out.

HnG:
It is that way when you get on an antidepressant. I remember when I was on lexapro during the D, and I felt zoned out. I remember one day feeling that if a giant meteor was hurtling towards my little spot on the earth, that I'd feel like.."oh well." Literally my emotions felt numbed.

Then after a week or so, things got better. I didn't cry and didn't get as emotional. Just be kind to yourself during this adjustment phase.

What I think you need is a goddess-cation (vacation for goddess).

I learned a fun trick that helped me when I was flat broke as a single mom with no family in my area and first did this about five years ago and again three years ago (it was right before I met my dh).

I learned how to save lots of $ and how to almost manipulate priceline a bit. Two sites (both free and volunteers who use the ideas post there and you just learn the way to bid) called biddingfortravel.com and betterbidding.com helped me learn how to squeeze a 4 or 5* hotel for a song! I even did this last weekend and booked a trip for all of us to go to Orlando during spring break. Let's just say dh was amazed at what I was able to afford and the gorgeous place we're going has made him a believer!

I think you need a little change of scenery, a good book (I read like mad when I was in the midst of what I called the "port of indecision" aka limboland). I read every single book by Jimmy Buffett (mental vacations and tons of fun), all the Harry Potter books with my ds, and Christian devotional books.

You need to find something fun to focus on right now in the mist of the stuff that is going on. You cannot control the wayward. Let Go do that. You can control HnG, who is an amazing woman

And you are doing something wonderful for yourself by recognizing that you were in pain, got on the right meds, saw a doctor, are working on yourself, and all that's needed is something added that can be an event to look forward too.

Hint: last weekend when I looked on that site before I booked our trip, there were several posters who got luxury 4* resorts for less than 45$ a night. Seriously! Now is the time to also do a little something more for HnG.

Hugs to you all. And fwiw, I got three lovely trips in the past and would use some of the small bonuses I'd get at work to pay for a trip for my child and I. Those were some of the greatest and happiest memories I have ever had. Those little events made for my child and I to make it through the tougher days, I can tell ya!

Now how is the strivectin workin' for ya? It's going well for me. I am working my tushie off right now trying to get 15 off! That and on the skin right now. What have you done wonderfully for YOU today HnG?

I have been working on taking care of myself. I called my in-laws tonight and my sister, too. That doesn't seem like much but to be able to speak to my in-laws and not cry is an amazing thing. It's also important for me to keep connected with the people who care about me and support me--it's not as easy to feel sorry for myself when I know I have dear people like my in-laws. My FiL is actually coming over tomorrow to see about fixing a dripping pipe. His son should do it but he told DS to "call a plumber" when he told him about it.

And I got my new clothes in the mail. The purple top fits beautifully and I adore the new scarf--rayon made from bamboo in a lovely navy and white striped design. However, I'm not wild about the wrap dress. It looks like something Rhoda Morgenstern would have worn in the 70s--at least it does on me.

Peachy, I don't think I'll be traveling until the summer but I'll definitely use your recommended sites. I do plan to spend more time in Nashville, visiting my girls and taking DS to the Frist Museum and other places. And I'm going to shop for more new clothes. I need some so badly.

The Strivectin neck cream is working really well, but I'm not wild about the deep crease cream. It's not a long term solution--it lasts a few hours and then you "reapply as necessary". Not easy to do at work. I've had great results from Olay Total Effects. I can see a big difference and I've only been using it for 2 weeks. It's a lot cheaper than the Strivectin, too.

One event that is coming up is the court hearing. Thankfully, my sister is coming to be with me at court--she's flying in from Kansas. I am beyond humbled that she would do this for me.

I'm way tired so I'm heading off to bed. Tomorrow, I'm filing my taxes and getting a haircut. Sunday, I'm buying some new tops at the mall. I'm good at spending money.

Make sure you LOVE what you buy. When you LOVE what you are wearing, it shows.

Take care of yourself. BTW, isn't it time to change your toenail colour?

So true! The wrap dress is okay but I don't love it. LOL--My older DD suggested I get a white dress like the one Lindsay Lohan wore to court. I don't know if I can rock a mini dress...

Yes, definitely. I just need to get some polish remover and a new color. I'm thinking blue....

I only buy clothes I can try on nowadays. If they don't go "POW" in the dressing room, I skip them.
Dress-wise, I find that I have to try on all the colors a dress comes in and each size to see if one looks hot on me.
Maybe, return the dress and get to some stores to try, try, try some! Take your dd!
Have fun!
Accept no less than beautiful you.

Thanks for the advice, Reading. Color does make a difference, doesn't it? I keep thinking I'd like something navy but I'll be sure to check out all of the colors available.

If I'm brave, I'll get both daughters to help me shop at the same time. I don't know though--they can be kinda pushy. Just like Scotty......

I filed my taxes and I'm getting back more than $3700! LG--your figures were right on but I also get to claim the educator's credit and since we didn't get $250 from the government last year, I got $400 this year. I'm not sure I understand that part, but what-the-hey. Also got the $1000 child tax credit.

Of course, this all goes into the general marital funds but he's gonna have to pay so that makes it all right in my book.

Me pushy?

I think it woul be great for you to take your DDs with you. I used to tell my mom that I wanted to take her out to get some clothes. She worked with older people and tended to dress older than she actually was. Now, she has changed a bit, but I would still LOVE to get her a makeover.

Scotty, you're either pushy or you are inexplicably obsessed with my toe nails.

I was just kidding--no real offense intended.

I did tend to dress older, too, but my DDs took care of that by inviting themselves along as I shopped and picking out clothes for me. Sort of a role-reversal going on....

You got me, I AM obsessed with your toenails. HEHEHEHE

I wasn't offended in the least. Actually, what I am doing is paying it forward. I am trying to remember what others were advising me when I was at the beginning of Plan B and I thought that I would try to impart that "wisdom." Read my thread, you will see that I was asked about MY toenails too.

BTW, my favourite colour is BLUE. I must have 10 different shades of blue nail polish. My fav one right now is a metallic silver one though. I bought some hair bling(tinsel that you put in your hair) off of Ebay. I just need to get some into my hair. I gotta thank Pep for that one.

I have read your thread, but it's time for a rereading. It's good wisdom that you're paying forward. I can see the benefit of taking care of myself and making myself number one (except for my DS). I'll look for the silver polish.

I already have some hair bling--lovely silver threads (unkind folks call it "gray"). For someone 54, I have an amazing lack of gray hair--95% of my head is still dark brown.

And that's all of the bragging for tonight.

I am 19 years younger than you, and I am CERTAIN, that if I didn't dye my hair brown, I would have about 50% grey. My mom likes to make fun of me because I have more grey hairs than she does. Although, my dad is 51 and he has WHITE hair now. I guess that's what I have to look forward to.

Scotty, a few days ago you wrote:

I went back to school to finish my college degree when I was 36, switching my major from biology (what was I thinking!) to education. I did have a husband then who was working full time so it wasn't a financial burden, but I was also the mom of 3 kids aged 7-12. Studying was time consuming. I also had our youngest (surprise!) when I was 38. That made it take even longer to finish up, but I finally graduated and got my first teaching job when I was 40.

You're clearly very bright and have excellent writing skills. Look into taking on-line classes and knock your core requirements out of the way (assuming it works the same way in Canada). Even if it takes you until you're 40 to graduate and get that new career, you'll have something you can be proud of--an education! No one can take it away from you, and you'll provide an outstanding example of perseverance for your boys. And besides all that--you're going to turn 40 (or a younger or older age) any way. Why not do it with a degree and a career?

Have you checked to see if you're eligible for any grants? Canada must have something like that to enable folks to get a college education.....

I have been thinking about where to go to find out what I can do, financially. The only problem is, I don't know WHAT I want to do. I am at the point in my life, where I want to KNOW what I want to do so I don't waste any time, or money.

I would LOVE to be a teacher, but it's hard to get a FT job in teaching here. I actually know a teacher who is still a sub after more than 6 years. It would also take me a long time until I graduate, even if I do some of it online.

I think you have given me a mission. I need to get my butt in gear. I am NOT getting any younger you know? HEHEHEHEHE

No, you're not getting any younger, but think of us 50-somethings who would love to be 40 again!

If I had to do it again, I think I would have been happier being a nurse instead of a teacher. There's lots of employment options--hospitals, doctors' offices, home health care, nursing homes, schools, etc. Even LPNs (licensed practical nurses) have good career choices and they have about half the education of an RN (registered nurse).

Best of all? Nurses don't have to grade homework or deal with unreasonable parents.

I'm a healthcare pro too, and can attest to what HnG said! Except we do deal with crabby patients sometimes though and sometimes I am on call.

But all in all, it's a good job! Love it!

I am in a specialty profession within the medical field and have been doing it for almost 15 years, minus the 3 I was at home with my son and working with the xh (aka skunk ape).

I love clothes from NY and Co. You can always order them online, they are true to size, and they offer amazing online coupons and savings when you join their customer reward program.

Like last week I got a 40 off 100 coupon.

That stuff is amazing! I also sign up for all the macys' and other designer places customer reward programs too. Get on their mailing lists and when you really want to go shopping, you can do so without feeling guilty!

Fwiw, I tried something new gals. I quit having the overlay put on my nails and dropped the whole french manicure thing. I think color is coming back (see the mags) and went and got a manicure and pedi today.

On my nails, my salon uses OPI gel nail color. It's a bit more expensive than regular color, but it stays on for a solid two weeks, they use the uv dryer for the coats, and it won't fade, chip, and your nails stay super super strong. Plus I love color!

It's worth it. I got a tricked out manicure and a pedi with the sugar scrub and hot stone massage and treatment on the feet for about $50 today. Try the OPI gel polish!

Oh, WOW, Peachy! I've never shopped at NY & Co--the prices are great! I've got to find my tape measure or buy a new one because I need to be sure of my new size. I made the mistake of getting a retractable one and DS thought it was a dandy toy. I keep forgetting he's ONLY 15! I haven't seen it since he walked off with it.

I'll check out Macy's tomorrow. The Fatigue Monster is attacking again.

I must confess--I've only had one manicure and that was for older DD's wedding about 18 months ago. I've never had a pedicure. Guess it's time I splurged, especially since Scotty is so obsessed with my toes.

The AD's are working great--I'm in that numb-to-the-asteroid-coming phase that I needed to get to.

Although I seem to be obsessed with YOUR toes, I myself DO NOT do the pedi. Nope. Uh-uh. Not gonna happen.

OPI colours ARE great.

Nurse, nope. I don't have the stomach for it. You should have seen me cleaning up after DS8 and the flu this week.

Well, Scotty, my DD is a nurse and she hasn't got a stomach for it either--unless she has her scrubs on. Those scrubs are like her Cape of Power. She can take care of some pretty gross things while wearing it. Like dirty diapers, you can get used to it.

IMPORTANT TOE UPDATE FOR YOU: I bought some OPI silver polish today and some BLUE (that's how bluey-blue it is) that's made by Essie (?). I'll take care of my toes tomorrow.

I also bought 4 tops (white, brown and teal, white and navy floral print, gray), a navy sweater, and 3 pairs of pants (black, navy, and brown).

You, my friend, are a plan B goddess. I am in AWE. Is there a bowing down smiley somewhere?

Still don't know about being a PB goddess, but I'm a good shopper!

Scotty, do you have an aversion to people touching your feet? I'm asking because you said

I'm with you on that. I don't ever want a facial either because I can't stand to have someone touching my face.

No touching my feet. AND I am EXTREMELY ticklish. I HATE it.

I have only allowed someone to give me a MANIIIIII(made sure I put more "i" so you guys don't mistake it for MAN again) and cut and dye my hair. I guess I have a lot more to experience in life, eh?

Sorry, it still looks like man--just has a lot of exclamation marks!

Maybe some of us (ME!) need to update our eye glass prescriptions.

Yep--you need lots of life experiences. You have a lot to look forward to!

What with all the toe-talk I forgot to mention that my in-laws came over yesterday. They brought by my birthday card (yep--8 weeks late, but that's okay) and FiL checked on the leaking pipe downstairs. He'll come by later this week to fix it and the dripping outside faucet.

I hope he tells WH that he's doing what WH should be doing.

After that, my in-laws invited DS and me to go eat pizza with them. We had a great time--caught up on family news and just enjoyed ourselves. I'm so lucky to have them in my life.

The in-laws just left. They came by this evening and my FiL fixed the leaky pipe in about 10 minutes.

I wanted to ask them to tell WH that FiL had fixed the leak, but DS was around and I didn't think it would be polite to say something about his dad when he was sitting there. I do hope they say something to WH, though.

My FiL was aghast that WH had told my older DS to call a plumber when DS told WH about the leaky pipe at Christmas. This family never calls a plumber or repair man for anything. Ever. It's against the way they were raised. My WH was raised that way. I've never called a plumber or air conditioning repair man or an electrician, etc. WH knows how to repair anything and used to really enjoy doing it.

Next weekend, FiL will install the wall mount for my flat screen TV. I paid over a hundred bucks for the wall mount bracket because WH promised last November that he would install it for me. Of course, like many promises he made (um, marriage vows!), he reneged on that.

It will be nice to finally have it installed. Thank goodness for my in-laws!

I am glad that you didn't tell FIL to say something, Plan B my dear. Plan B.

You didn't expect your WH to come and fix the leaky pipe did you? If your FIL didn't come and fix it, you really should have called a plumber, or tried to do it yourself.

I know how much it sucks to not have your WH around to fix things anymore. It's awful when the one person you were so used to counting on, just doesn't exist anymore, at least for you.

I have had to learn how to take care of things myself. It helps if you think of them as if they had died. You would be grieving, as you have been through all of this, but you would need to rely on yourself only.

Plan B isn't only about NC, it's a state of mind, and there are definitely some steps that need to be taken to get you on that path.

No, I didn't expect WH to come and fix it--I just want my in-laws to say something to SHAME my WH. They won't even have to do it in a shaming way; just mentioning it to WH might give him some guilt. But, mindful of Plan B, I won't ask or tell anyone to say something.

Somethings I've learned to do myself, but it does hurt that my once attentive husband is now my WH. It makes the divorce seem inevitable and that still hurts like heck.

What steps do you recommend? A brain transplant might help. Seriously, I'm trying very hard to put my pain and longing for my WH on the back burner of my brain. However, it still rears its ugly head when I least expect it. I'm doing as much as I can think of to get past the pain and move on with my life. I'm accepting that I will someday be happy, marriage recovery or not.

I don't know what else to do.

When I see things that I may suggest, I will let you know.

Recovery, personal or marital, is a marathon, not a sprint. As long as you are moving in the right direction, with one foot in front of the other, you are doing the right things.

Even if your FIL said something to your WH, it might not bring on guilt or shame. He is a wayturd afterall. You also Plan B with no expectations.

I gotta admit - I LOVE pedi's; you should also check out China Glaze - they have some great colors as well. Caribbean Temptation is my fave.
Of course I have to ask; Scotty, why are you obsessed with H&G's toes?

SHHHHHHHHH Don't tell. It's because she has ELEVEN of them. It's a SECRET though.

It is a marathon. Took me several years before I was the old me. But then again I am never really the old me. A better, stronger, more loving me. A woman who walked thru fire for her son, stood up to the lies and a rich, evil guy, and channeled David and took on Goliath and won, with a little help from faith.

And a few lovely people from MB who also believed in me.

I beg your pardon?


Too funny!

I think the thing that keeps me going is the people I've met here. You, peachy, and Scotty and a few others have really helped me believe in my own strengths and accept that sometimes it's okay to falter but it's not okay to give up.

I need new athletic shoes--over my soon-to-be-blue toenails. I'm in a marathon.

Hugs to everyone!

Nice, very nice. I hope I can get there as well - work in progress...

I am sick (tummy woes--wondering if I got it from Scotty!) and also sick and tired of photocopying requested documents. It's become a part-time job.

I TOLD Scotty to spray her keyboard down with Lysol before she got online!

Well, I kept her pretty distracted with my eleventh toe...

I am laffing so hard I can't see. I forgot that I wrote that. I hope it gave you a good chuckle and when you re-read your thread, it should do so again.

H&G, I am sorry you feel down today. I hope it helped, a little.

I have been on a roll all day. I have been laffing and laffing. My sides are killing me. THIS is what you have to look forward to and I told you that I promised you WILL get there.

Did you venture over to the rant thread? It seems that we have been having a bit of fun over there today. A lot of laffs.

My prescription for you is a FUNNY movie. You need a good laff.

Your joke made me LOL, too. It was quite a surprise and a welcome one at that because my poor tum-tum has been giving me fits. It's not good to feel like running to the restroom when you have a class of fourth graders in front of you. Thank goodness I keep Imodium in my desk...

One of the great pleasures I get from talking to my sister is that we can become hysterical together. We take the smallest of ideas and just riff with it--last week we were talking about the excess skin I have from losing so much weight. We ended up with the idea to create a mini-me and decided we'd name it after WH because it, too, would be brainless. We've always, way back to when we were just little kids, been able to be silly together.

I do need to see a funny movie. DS is going to a friend's house to watch a Monty Python marathon on Saturday. Maybe I should tag along (LIKE he'd let me!). It does mean that I'll get to hear DS quote from MP movies for the next month but that won't be as bad as the last time he saw Airplane. If I hear "What's your vector, Victor?" one more time....

I did read the rant thread and found it very amusing. Years ago, WH and I played bridge in competitions. There was a regional tournament in Nashville and we played against several Canadians. We could always pick them out--the accent gave them away everytime. Do you say "ah-boot" for "ah-bout"? Do you add "eh?" to the end of your sentences?

It reminds me that last year WH, DS, and I watched our favorite Olympic sport together every evening--curling! We didn't understand much about it, but it was a lot of fun to watch.

So, to fully answer your first question: yes, you did help--a lot! My stomach is still roiling, but I've got more Imodium around here somewhere...

Apparently, I say a-boot, although I don't hear it. And yes, I have been known to add "eh" at the end of my sentences, even on here(I have edited most out before I post though). My cousin, who lives in Milwaukee(my mom was born there) makes fun of me ALL of the time. He even had to ask what "pop" was. Apparently, he calls it "soda."

I CALL AIRPLANE. I think you should watch Airplane WITH DS15, wouldn't that be MARVELOUS? I need to find that movie. My DS10 would LOVE it. HAHAHAHA

I just recently got all of the monty python movies off of ebay. I figured it was time for DS10 to watch them. He thought they were funny and wanted to watch them a few times.

Sorry you are feeling sick. This flu kicked my family's butt. My friend's families got off with the 24 hour thing. It's been YEARS since this family had a bad flu outbreak, so I guess it was time.