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Scotty, I've had a few moments of happiness since my birthday. They always come as a complete surprise but I take them in and realize that I'm getting better.

Yesterday's difficulties with everything just hit me broadside. It hurt like a fresh, new pain instead of the one I carry with me at all times.

Although I had mentally prepared myself so well for Valentine's Day, I had a big let-down yesterday. Darned faint-but-eager hopes....

I remember your promise, and I believe it. I've just got to get through my "first" of each of the holidays.

I think I'll manage St. Patrick's Day with no problems. wink


"Your future isn't sealed. Nothing bad is going to happen. You just put everything in God's hands and in the meanwhile, do all you can do as a woman to protect yourself and your finances and family. That's what your job is to do now and let God deal with the wayward. Trust me...you do not have to lift a finger. HE will deal with the wayward."
Quotable words from peachyisback
“Sometimes you don’t get where you want to go, but you get much further than you were before.” Tiffany on Top Chef
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Mitzie, I've got to go to work, but it's nice to know that our WHs are very similar. I thought I was going crazy when I listened to the fogged up statements coming from WH's mouth. Ditto that all he said was negative.

He even told me that the past 20 years were the worst years of his life--that he had wasted those years by staying with me and the kids. frown


"Your future isn't sealed. Nothing bad is going to happen. You just put everything in God's hands and in the meanwhile, do all you can do as a woman to protect yourself and your finances and family. That's what your job is to do now and let God deal with the wayward. Trust me...you do not have to lift a finger. HE will deal with the wayward."
Quotable words from peachyisback
“Sometimes you don’t get where you want to go, but you get much further than you were before.” Tiffany on Top Chef
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H&G - WOW! So far I've only gotten 'I really, really hate you.' That 20 years statement is brutal. Sending my support, hang in there!


BS(me)- 45
WW - 41
D-day 1 - (PA) 01/2011
DS - 6
Exposure: early 02/2011
Started Plan B - 7/11
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H&G:

Something I learned around here.... Those past hurts, and slights, and blah, blah, blah?

Those are the things that unravel the fabric of the marriage.

Flamingo can list for you all the awful things I did 20 years ago. Things well before the M, before DS's birth, before and during the A.

Oh, yeah, SHE tried to talk about it. It came out as nagging, or coniptions when she would explode in frustration. Over whatever it is. I have my little touchstones as well.

When she did this, or that, just like you got from your WH. When you enter into an A, and start sliding deeper and deeper, it is real easy to look for ALL the points of divergence in the marriage.

And you start poishing, and protecting those hurts, and resentments, and before long, you are deep into a relationship with someone else, because you are so seperated from this person you are married too. Things may have appeared great to you. And if you had asked your spouse, you may have gotten the answer that "Everything was FINE." It wasn't. He couldn't talk about what was wrong, becasue he didn't have the tools to discuss, nor did the spouse have the tools to deal with that critisism.

MB gave us those tools. That is why I am interested in your sitch. You described what the two years prior to the A was like in your M. You were out taking care of everything EXCEPT your H. Sure, this worked for years. But.....OW showed up.

It evolved slowly, or quickly. It doesn't matter. He was feeling left behind in the marriage, and an afterthought. Was this intentional on your part? No. Did you make a choice to have an affair to fix it? No. He did. He could have choose to look up a website, and decide to do things different too.

So, when you get the list of gievences from your WH, and some may dismiss it as just marital re-writes, it isn't always. Sometimes, it is a look into the things that he should have told you about back then. You two should have addressed some of these things. So that you learned better tools for avoiding problems that start small and grow larger.

Much of this is water under the bridge. And you can't fight his perception of things NOW, (Look at all the bad things you did to him!) by stating look how many wonderful things we did do. It isn't computing to him, right now.

THAT is what MB taught me and Flamingo. I learned a whole lot more from here to. It is unfortunate that not all waywards can have the epipany moments like I had. And then continued on the path. (I would have liked to find this place 12 years ago...)

He is tearing you down now, to make himself look better for having an A. Blaming YOU for his choices. You can listen to the specific items, and maybe, address them, if you would like to. If you reconcile, it is a place to start a new style of conversation between you.

I still think your WH is redeemable. But he has to make the choice to come home.

(((H&G)))

LG

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LG--I'll post a longer reply tonight, but for now I'll just say, "Bingo. You've nailed it."

Thanks. smile


"Your future isn't sealed. Nothing bad is going to happen. You just put everything in God's hands and in the meanwhile, do all you can do as a woman to protect yourself and your finances and family. That's what your job is to do now and let God deal with the wayward. Trust me...you do not have to lift a finger. HE will deal with the wayward."
Quotable words from peachyisback
“Sometimes you don’t get where you want to go, but you get much further than you were before.” Tiffany on Top Chef
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Originally Posted by lousygolfer
H&G:

Something I learned around here.... Those past hurts, and slights, and blah, blah, blah?

Those are the things that unravel the fabric of the marriage.

Flamingo can list for you all the awful things I did 20 years ago. Things well before the M, before DS's birth, before and during the A.

Oh, yeah, SHE tried to talk about it. It came out as nagging, or coniptions when she would explode in frustration. Over whatever it is. I have my little touchstones as well.

When she did this, or that, just like you got from your WH. When you enter into an A, and start sliding deeper and deeper, it is real easy to look for ALL the points of divergence in the marriage.

And you start poishing, and protecting those hurts, and resentments, and before long, you are deep into a relationship with someone else, because you are so seperated from this person you are married too. Things may have appeared great to you. And if you had asked your spouse, you may have gotten the answer that "Everything was FINE." It wasn't. He couldn't talk about what was wrong, becasue he didn't have the tools to discuss, nor did the spouse have the tools to deal with that critisism.
I think your comments are very astute. That's exactly what happened with me and my WH and exactly the way it happened.

I would ask him what was wrong and he would say "Nothing." I would try, but without him also trying it was like being Sisyphus--I never accomplished anything.

Originally Posted by lousygolfer
MB gave us those tools. That is why I am interested in your sitch. You described what the two years prior to the A was like in your M. You were out taking care of everything EXCEPT your H. Sure, this worked for years. But.....OW showed up.

It evolved slowly, or quickly. It doesn't matter. He was feeling left behind in the marriage, and an afterthought. Was this intentional on your part? No. Did you make a choice to have an affair to fix it? No. He did. He could have choose to look up a website, and decide to do things different too.

So, when you get the list of gievences from your WH, and some may dismiss it as just marital re-writes, it isn't always. Sometimes, it is a look into the things that he should have told you about back then. You two should have addressed some of these things. So that you learned better tools for avoiding problems that start small and grow larger.

Much of this is water under the bridge. And you can't fight his perception of things NOW, (Look at all the bad things you did to him!) by stating look how many wonderful things we did do. It isn't computing to him, right now.
Now, when confronted with the enormous hurt he has caused me, he always says, "I didn't think you loved me. I didn't think you would care."

If that's true, why did he lie to me? Why did he go to extremes to cover up the affair? Why is he defensive? He has allowed her to put many words in his mouth and many ideas about our marriage into his head.

He has gunny-sacked all of the hurts from 32 years of marriage. It seems nothing is too far back to drag out to justify his actions.

It's all rather unfair.

Originally Posted by lousygolfer
THAT is what MB taught me and Flamingo. I learned a whole lot more from here to. It is unfortunate that not all waywards can have the epipany moments like I had. And then continued on the path. (I would have liked to find this place 12 years ago...)

He is tearing you down now, to make himself look better for having an A. Blaming YOU for his choices. You can listen to the specific items, and maybe, address them, if you would like to. If you reconcile, it is a place to start a new style of conversation between you.

I still think your WH is redeemable. But he has to make the choice to come home.

(((H&G)))

LG

I don't know if he'll ever make that choice, although he has dangled that when speaking to me, my sister, his parents, etc. (The old "someday, I may be back and we'll just be out a few thousand dollars for the divorce" statement.)

I think he's mightily afraid that he has made a poor choice, but he's so deep in his fog he may never come out of it. (Although, rationally, if he knows at some level that this is a mistake, I have a legitimate reason for hope.)

My counselor told me today that although she thinks it's highly likely the affair will end, she doesn't see me being able to go back to him. She says my hurt is too deep to ever forgive him.

I don't know about that. I believe that MB will give us all of the tools to recover our love and marriage.


"Your future isn't sealed. Nothing bad is going to happen. You just put everything in God's hands and in the meanwhile, do all you can do as a woman to protect yourself and your finances and family. That's what your job is to do now and let God deal with the wayward. Trust me...you do not have to lift a finger. HE will deal with the wayward."
Quotable words from peachyisback
“Sometimes you don’t get where you want to go, but you get much further than you were before.” Tiffany on Top Chef
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Forgot to mention: he emailed me today. Just a one sentence query of whether I'm going to see any of DS's teachers tomorrow during conferences.

I did not answer and deleted it.

Seriously, does he think I'd go with him?
crazy

I hadn't blocked him from my email because he never emails me. (Just like he never parks on the side of the building where DS bowls. . .)

He keeps surprising me. I've blocked him now.


"Your future isn't sealed. Nothing bad is going to happen. You just put everything in God's hands and in the meanwhile, do all you can do as a woman to protect yourself and your finances and family. That's what your job is to do now and let God deal with the wayward. Trust me...you do not have to lift a finger. HE will deal with the wayward."
Quotable words from peachyisback
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You read it though, right? Expect a low soon.

Be honest with yourself, how did you feel when you saw he emailed you?


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

“Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.”
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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Honestly, I felt sick to my stomach. It was in the reading pane on my email because it was the most recent one received.

I need to go to the conferences, but don't want to run into WH there. The thought makes me ill. I will no longer pretend to be happy in front of others; I will ask him to leave if he tries to join a conference with me. If he won't, then I'll just get up and go.

If he wants to be a single parent, then it's about time he faced the reality of single parenting.

I do not have to pretend to be friends with my abuser.

And that's how I feel tonight.


"Your future isn't sealed. Nothing bad is going to happen. You just put everything in God's hands and in the meanwhile, do all you can do as a woman to protect yourself and your finances and family. That's what your job is to do now and let God deal with the wayward. Trust me...you do not have to lift a finger. HE will deal with the wayward."
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Originally Posted by HopeandGrace
I do not have to pretend to be friends with my abuser.

And that's how I feel tonight.

H&G:

YOU GO GIRL!!!

And really, would you be friends with an adulterer? Didn't think so.


BS/ME 47 Met on blind date
WH 46(Alcoholic,drugs?)
DS1:18 DS2:15
1st A EA9/07 PA10/07 NC11/07
2nd A EA/PA-10/2010
Found out- 11/20/2010
He moved out-1/1/2011 same apt.cmplx as OW(&her kids)
PlanB-1/1/11(broken)
NEW PB-2/11 Taking it one day at a time


There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who say to God, "Thy will be done" and those to whom God says, "Alright then, have it your way." ~C .S.Lewis


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H&G:

The more you pull away, the more he gets in contact?

Parks close by.
Waves.
Sends an email.

All of them saying, "H&G, are you there? am I still important to you?"

Stay dim. This is on him.

Need any help with the tax return?

LG

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Originally Posted by lousygolfer
H&G:

The more you pull away, the more he gets in contact?

Parks close by.
Waves.
Sends an email.

All of them saying, "H&G, are you there? am I still important to you?"

Stay dim. This is on him.

Need any help with the tax return?

LG
I am trying to not read too much into his actions, but it does seem positive.

I have one quick question about my taxes--must I claim the three thousand dollars he gave for household bills last year?


"Your future isn't sealed. Nothing bad is going to happen. You just put everything in God's hands and in the meanwhile, do all you can do as a woman to protect yourself and your finances and family. That's what your job is to do now and let God deal with the wayward. Trust me...you do not have to lift a finger. HE will deal with the wayward."
Quotable words from peachyisback
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No.

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H&G,

Oh, don't fool yourself sister, he's a missin' Hope & Glory alright.

Let him stew. (add some fine wine and a pinch of salt while you're at it)

He's losing you and he KNOWS it, but how to get you back? I don't think WS have a clue and that scares them and confuses them.



BS/ME 47 Met on blind date
WH 46(Alcoholic,drugs?)
DS1:18 DS2:15
1st A EA9/07 PA10/07 NC11/07
2nd A EA/PA-10/2010
Found out- 11/20/2010
He moved out-1/1/2011 same apt.cmplx as OW(&her kids)
PlanB-1/1/11(broken)
NEW PB-2/11 Taking it one day at a time


There are two kinds of people in the world: Those who say to God, "Thy will be done" and those to whom God says, "Alright then, have it your way." ~C .S.Lewis


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I went to parent-teacher conferences to find out how DS is doing. Suffice it to say that he's back in the technological Stone Age--no games or laptop until he's back to passing all subjects.

Sigh.

No sign of WH at the conferences. A good thing! smile

When I got home, I checked my email and found one from my attorney. He forwarded to me the interrogatories WH's attorney sent him. Thirty-one pages of questions. For what reason do I have to list every lie I've told my husband? I haven't lied to my husband, except when I went on my initial consultation with my attorney. I told him I had an after-school meeting. I also have to list all of the lies my WH has told me. That will be quite a book....

I've got to get all of the financial documents for the previous 10 years together and present them to WH's attorney in an ordered manner.

I've got to provide proof from any source available for any or all of the questions--I'll be contacting my work, my doctors, my counselor, etc.

And I've got all of 30 days to get it done.

It's overwhelming.

Divorce is not for sissies.


"Your future isn't sealed. Nothing bad is going to happen. You just put everything in God's hands and in the meanwhile, do all you can do as a woman to protect yourself and your finances and family. That's what your job is to do now and let God deal with the wayward. Trust me...you do not have to lift a finger. HE will deal with the wayward."
Quotable words from peachyisback
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H&G:

Nice of your attorney to just shuffle that pile of crap on to you.

Call his lazy butt up and tell him to TELL YOU what you need to provide.

A 31 page list of EVERYTHING does NOT need to be provided by you.

You can DECLINE any particular request and THEY have to ask the judge to support thier request for that info.

And what did your attorney send HIM For discovery? Is thier a summons for OW? A request for phone logs? Credit Card receipts? Cell phone pictures?

Two, yes TWO, can play the game.

I never heard the "every lie I have told you line" You answer, "I only ever lied in the bedroom, by saying that the SF was anything beyond ordinary" "He liked when I told him he was powerful and a wonderful lover" "So, I told him that"

Or, you just say, "I never lied to you"

And when they depose you, they will ask you that question again, you will say "I never lied to him" and then they will ask you about every lie that he can remember. And ask you to state "that was a lie". Over and over again.

So you have to depose him first. Actually, second, after you depose OW. Then you can ask him about ALL HIS LIES. Could be fun.

No, its not. Its BRUTAL. Marriage is for love, Divorce is for pain. Unrelenting and brutal pain.

Administered using the court system to give it the patina of justice.

You have to have a nice sit down with your lawyer. Find out EXACTLY what you will be required to answer in discovery. Don't call ANYONE till you have something more than an email from your attorney.

LG


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LG--good questions! My attorney told me to answer any of the questions that I can, but clearly I can't answer some of them. For instance, I don't know of any expert witnesses that may be called to testify.

My WH had to complete a similar discovery document, but without the questions about lying and some of the other stuff that I have to. It somewhat appears to me that they are trying to find out how strong our case is against him--having to list all of the instances of his lies and vacations in the past year. The list boggles my mind!

I also have to list all of my negative aspects as a parent (difficult--like one of those darned employment interview questions--"What is the most negative thing about you as a worker?") and all of my positive aspects. Ditto for WH--I have to do the same about him. That promises to be a lot of fun. wink

My attorney will send discovery questions to Dumpy (OW--my WH calls her "Dumplin'".) puke She will be deposed and will (keep your fingers crossed!) have to testify in court. laugh

My attorney has requested all cell phone logs and emails from the past year. He has previously told me that he will subpoena my WH's employer for the records, since WH will probably not be able to provide these logs (cell phone and email are provided by his employer.)

I have all credit card records, current until the last month he lived with me. He has been asked to provide all such records, but only has records for the last 5 months.

I will contact my attorney and ask him what specifically I should answer and what specific records I should provide. I've learned that what is stated in these legal docs isn't necessarily what will be sufficient to answer the request.

I'm not going to be calling anyone or doing anything but giving my interrogatories to my attorney to vet before they are sent to WH's attorney.

I don't know how much input my attorney will welcome from me regarding who is deposed first, but I will definitely discuss it with him. My attorney did tell me that, per my request for a slow divorce, he wouldn't depose WH for a couple of months after our March court date.

Thanks for having my back, LG--you always give me a lot to think about!



"Your future isn't sealed. Nothing bad is going to happen. You just put everything in God's hands and in the meanwhile, do all you can do as a woman to protect yourself and your finances and family. That's what your job is to do now and let God deal with the wayward. Trust me...you do not have to lift a finger. HE will deal with the wayward."
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H&G:

This line:
Originally Posted by H&G
My attorney did tell me that, per my request for a slow divorce, he wouldn't depose WH for a couple of months after our March court date.

You want to slow DOWN the divorce, buty ou wnat the PAINFUL stuff to happen first...

Ask for an early date to depose them. Specifically, ask for OW to be deposed FIRST, then WH. They will insist on doing you early as well, tell them that they filed first, so, you want to find out why first.

LG


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Sigh.

I received another fat packet of papers from my attorney today--this time, it was WH's Answers to my Interrogatories and request for production of documents. Fun reading, especially the part where, when asked to state and describe each incident in which he has made a false statement to or about his spouse, he answered, "Offensive and objectionable question and I do not understand this question."

Really?

He also said that asking him to name OW and list all dates of encounters and all monies spent on her was objectionable and offensive. That's okay--I'll provide my attorney with this information (except what he's spent on her since he moved out.)

LG, I'll email my attorney this weekend to clear up how far back I need to go with the financial records and ask some other pertinent questions. I just haven't had time to sit and think and write the email.

The cover letter from my attorney that was with today's document stack asked that I complete the questions and provide all financial documentation within 10 days. Oy.


"Your future isn't sealed. Nothing bad is going to happen. You just put everything in God's hands and in the meanwhile, do all you can do as a woman to protect yourself and your finances and family. That's what your job is to do now and let God deal with the wayward. Trust me...you do not have to lift a finger. HE will deal with the wayward."
Quotable words from peachyisback
“Sometimes you don’t get where you want to go, but you get much further than you were before.” Tiffany on Top Chef
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H&G:

What did I tell you. "objectionable and offensive" IS his answer to all those questions.

Your answers can be short and to the point as well.

Sorry you have to go though this.

LG

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