OM sitch is that they are still "talking", whatever that means. Exposure has been done, nothing left to do there. I am in full court press wooing, as much as WS will allow. When I spoke with Dr. Harley, he recommended this. He said when the BS is the husband, he advises them to actively pursue WS, so that is what I have been doing. I talk to her every day, send her flowers occassionally, invite her on dates (which she occassionaly accepts). I had a rather serious conversation with her yesterday about where we stand. She said "I have noticed the way you have been acting in the last few weeks and it has caused me to think differently about you and our chances of getting back together. I just still don't love you the way a wife should love her husband (ILYBINILWY)." I told her that she is unlikely to feel that way again as long as she is in contact with OM. That is about as far as I can go without unleashing my Taker for a round of LB's.

Cake-eater!

Have you been able to meet SF with her?

You really need to absolutely stop this questioning. You know that as long as she has not moved back into the home and is not working on recovery, she is in the Affair. If above and she is letting you meet her ENs, then you know where you stand, right? You are a corner of triangle.

I believe that you already have had one confrontation with OM. The Vets could help you on this, but maybe you need some more confrontation.

What is the OM sitch?

Look, I know she is in the affair, that is not in question. I also know that she is cake-eating. I discussed all of this with Dr. Harley, and his suggestion was to actively pursue her, continue with Plan A for as long as I can stand it. He says she is clearly addicted, wants to do what she knows is right, but feels unable to break the addiction. Until she is willing to agree to NC, there is not much else to do.

Every time she makes a statement like the above, I do express my disappointment and disapproval, in a kind and loving way. I don't act like I approve of her fence-sitting, I just don't freak out and lose my mind like I once did. I have gotten better at turning her fog babble against her, without making disrespectful judgments. It takes every ounce of self-control I have to do this, and I usually end up spewing these disrespectful judgments to myself on my nightly walks. Whatever it takes to maintain sanity, I guess.

She has made three major steps in the past few weeks by beginning counseling with our church, beginning individual therapy and taking meds for depression. Her interactions with me and her attentiveness to our children have improved dramatically since then.

I have actually had two confrontations with OM, and if I have any more I will likely end up in jail. As much as I would love to put my foot squarely in his behind, I have to think about my children- they need at least one functioning parent.

Damn, you look like you have a plan.

I was just trying to find other avenues for you to help accelerate the death of the A.

I'm here rooting for you.

TD, it sounds like you're doing exactly what Dr. Harley recommended that you do.

I was a cake-eater from July until January, when my A finally "ended." I put ended in quotation marks, because I actually remained in contact with the OM for about another year-and-a-half after I made the decision to stay and work on my M. I justified this because there was an OC in the picture, but I realize now that it was just another form of cake-eating. I wanted my M and the "friendship" of the OM as well.

My point is, the cake-eating can be extremely frustrating. I know, because I lived the other side of it as well for an embarrassingly long time when my H was involved in his A. I didn't have MB to help me through that and I didn't know anything about exposure or other tools I could have used to help end it faster. But you have a plan, and if the steps your wife is taking right now are any indication, it seems to be working. I think the only thing you need to guard against is making sure that you don't stay in Plan A so long that your LB becomes drained and you lose all love for your wife. If that happens, your M probably won't survive this. And yes, you do have to stay functional for your kids. They will thank you for that someday.

Hang in there. You're doing great.

TD, I remember reading Limb's thread and he was advised by SH to talk to his WW about the consequences of her A as part of the stick of Plan A. I don't want you to get right into it without a SOLID plan about what you are going to say and how you will say it so you can avoid any LBs.

Plan A without the stick is Plan Doormat. I just want you to stay on the right side of Plan A. It seems that you have been so far and that is SPECTACULAR. As writer mentioned, just ensure that you don't let your LB balance get too low as you will be unable to recover because YOU won't want to anymore.

So, how have you been destressing? Do you exercise? Go for runs? Play some shoot em up video games? Is there anything that you can do that would also include spending time with the kids?

Do you write your WW an email or text ever day? At the same time? Just a "Hey, hope you have a great day."

Remember, Plan A should be things that you would be willing to do should your WW decide to return to the marriage.

I seem to be all over the place with this post cuz I just thought of something else that would be a part of the stick for Plan A. You can stil state your boundaries as long as you do them without committing any Love Busters. For example, "I will not accept a marriage where you have a boyfriend, want a cookie?"

Thanks, CK- I'm always looking for alternate ways to attack this.

Writer1, you are absolutely right- the cake-eating is extremely frustrating. I am very sensitive to the fact that my LB balance could become depleted. Dr. Harley warned me about that as well. I have tried very hard to look at this almost as an illness- WS is sick with the fog of an affair, and it is affecting her moods, her actions, and especially her words almost like a brain tumor. I do get angry at times, but I don't feel my love for her slipping yet.

Scotty, I actually had a talk about the consequences of the A with WS yesterday. I was able to pull that off in a calm and rational manner, stating my position very matter-of-factly, without becoming too emotional. That is something I've been working on, and I seem to be getting better at it. I actually asked her yesterday "where do you see this leading?". She replied, "I don't know, I just don't know."

I actually communicate with WS every day. We talk by phone every day, and exchange several emails a day. In the last couple of weeks, she has actually initiated some of these, which is a change. In the past, she would only initiate contact to check on getting the kids. She actually had dinner with us at home twice last week, and on one of those occasions, I noticed her sitting there at her normal place at the dinner table, surrounded by her children, crying. She tried to hide it, but I saw it. I asked her about it later and she said, "It's just hard not being here with them." I said, "That is a problem that can be fixed." She said, "I know, I'm just not ready yet." Baby steps, I guess.

My main de-stressers are: prayer, doing things with my children, and taking my nightly walk. I live out in the country on the family farm, so each night I take a long walk, where I am able to be totally alone. This is my time to cry, talk to myself, say things that I would like to say to WS, and just generally de-compress. It may seem crazy, but it works for me. Also, I can't tell you how much coming to this forum helps me. It is just so comforting to see that WS' do all say the same things, do the same things, and that it is possible for them to come around.

As I have said before, I am not confident or even optimisitic, just hopeful- and that hope, along with my love for my wife and children, are what keep me going, even in the face of the thickest wayward fog.

Yes all the WSs are all the same and the more threads I read the more predictable they become. But its not easy when she used to be your wife - i know.

Hang in there TD, glad to see you're still around - that is if you and I are still having to fight this fight.

Your right Reynolds, they're all the same. Sometimes when WS says something that makes me think there is no hope, I come on here and find a thread where another WS said exactly the same thing, and then somewhere down the road, the fog lifted, and they were able to reconcile. That has kept me from giving up so many times.

How are things going with you?

Not to hijack, but I don�t have a thread. After I exposed my Ws affair fell apart. OM had proposed to his girlfriend, and threw my W under the bus to save that. So she been coming back around. I would like to say we are in recovery, but there are still tough days. I talked to Steve and he gave me some action items which I have been chasing hard. He�d like to talk to her, but shes pushing back on that. So I am kind of recovering, but we aren�t at full speed yet. Its frustrating, it tries your patience. But it�s a marathon. She has seen the MB site, not fully bought in yet. Shes trying in other ways.. I am just doing my best just like you.

Its funny because we see guys on here � and it seems like BH threads are all I read � that don�t pursue hard, or expose, or fight back and those are the ones that don�t make it. The ones that do are like us. They do all those things. So I have a good feeling about you two. Actually you, me and one other guy I think are a lot alike, and on the same path. I just got lucky and my exposure was dramatic. You two are having to earn it a little more.

I think the key for all of us and what keeps me up at night, is recovery. Making it stick, nailing the execution of it, making it permanent. I like action items � do this do that. None of this applying principles stuff. That I can�t relate to.

Anyway, enough hijack. I am glad you are still here and doing OK.

Reynolds, I am glad things are working out for you. Dr. Harley also told me that the best shot I have is for OM to break it off. Other than that, he said I could be in for a long ride. He also said that he feels that we have an excellent shot at recovery, if we could ever break WS away from OM.

I also get frustrated that there is not more than I can actually do. I like action, not theory.

Not much to report. We have been having some issues with DD18. She has chronic kidney stones, and we are concerned about her use of prescription meds. She has started seeing an addiction counselor, and WS has gone with her for her first couple of sessions. WS is very sensitive about the affect that her A and our separation are having on DD18. She says repeatedly, "her problems were going on long before ours, and I am not going to let her blame me for this." (Guilt). DD18 said the counselor spent a good part of their session questioning WS about her situation. Of course, WS is seeing her own therapist now also. This past Sunday after church, DD18 was with WS, and she said WS was very emotional, crying, etc. (She had become very emotional at the end of church, crying, holding my hand.) She made a comment to DD18 that has intrigued me. She said "I guess I am just running away from my problems, because that is what I do- I run away." I have never said anything like this to WS. (I have thought it a thousand times, but never said it.) I'm just not sure where that is coming from. I wonder if that has come up in her therapy sessions?

This sounds like something that would be discussed in therapy. And when you really look at it, it is clear that it is psycho-babble and makes absolutely NO SENSE.

Your WW piled a whole heap on problems on herself when she chose to have an affair. So I can't see where she can say she's running 'away' from her problems. She's just trading one set of 'problems' for another and damaging a lot of people while she does it.

I agree- trading one set of problems for a worse set of problems. It is interesting that she acknowledges that she is running away from her responsibilities with the children, though. I think it sounds like something from therapy too.

When I talked with Dr. Harley, he said he feels that she knows what she needs to do, and really wants to do it, but she is clearly addicted. I think that's true.

Is she seeing a therapist through LDS social services?

The reason I ask is because I saw a couple of different therapists for IC during my A, and the LDS ones were quite supportive of my staying in the marriage, whereas the non-LDS ones seemed more geared towards helping me "find myself" and "figure out what I really wanted." They wanted to help me explore my "true" feelings and figure out if I really wanted to be with my H, or if I wanted to leave and be with the OM.

Obviously, this 2nd type of counselor is a very bad person to be seeing if you're a foggy wayward involved in an active affair. The last person on earth who knows how they really feel or what they really want is an active wayward. Apparently, some (perhaps many) IC's didn't get that memo.

No, not an LDS therapist, nor referred through LDS services. I tried to get her to go that route, as did our Stake President. She resisted counseling for the longest time, and our family doc is the only one who has been able to convince her to go. When I suggested it back in August, WS said "I may go to counseling, but I will NEVER taked meds."

Right after New Years, MIL felt a strong prompting to write her a letter. She wrote her a 6-page letter, very powerful. That was on a Thursday. The following Sunday, she began counseling with our Stake President. The week after that, she had an appt. with our family physician, with whom she decided to share her situation. Family doc prescribed anti-D meds and insisted that she begin therapy for depression. WS called me that afternoon and shared that with me, which blew me away. I had an appt. with the same family doc the next day. She told me she had spoken with WS about our situation, wanted to know if I needed any help. I told her I was okay, but I wanted to thank her for convincing WS to go to therapy and for prescribing meds. I told her I had been begging her since August. She said "She is clearly depressed and confused about what she wants, and I was very firm in my request."

The period around Christmas and New Years were just terrible, but ever since these developments, she has been like a different person- almost like her old self. Her interactions with me and the children have improved dramatically. I'm not sure if it's the counseling with the Stake President, the therapy, or the meds, but I suspect it is a combination of all of these.

I also have mixed feelings about the therapist, because I know that there is no guarantee about what sort of advice she is getting.

Obviously, there isn't much you can do about it at this point except hope that she has a good therapist who is supportive of your marriage and able to see through all of the wayward fogbabble.

Getting your wife to agree to marriage counseling through LDS social services would be a fantastic next step. They may (or may not) be familiar with Dr. Harley's program, but they would definitely support saving the marriage, and I think that Dr. Harley's principles are very much in-line with the counseling generally provided through LDS social services, at least in my experience.

I agree. I will definitely suggest that.

Does anyone else find that Valentine's day particularly sucks for a BS? It is particularly sucky for me, as POSOM considers it their "anniversary", since it is the first time he contacted WS by phone. (I think I just threw up a little.)

My "suckometer" is reading "sucks alot" (if any of you have seen the stop smoking/nicotine gum ads).