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Uh... Since POSOM has changed the password, how was he supposed to communicate the new one to your WS? Do you fill the waves crashing over this. Can you rephrase? I don't know if I understood. Your WS needs consequences for continuing A.
What are they? You moddle-coddle WS. This FR is going to kill you. Agreed, there have to be consequences. That's been the one thing that has bothered me: that, save for the humiliation with her family, she got to come back without any consequences. My only card left to play is to threaten or file for divorce if contact continues. Honestly, I'm scared to because I think she'd agree to it. That's the one hurdle that I just cannot seem to face.
Me (BH)
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North --
I would keep all of your spying options open.
The affair continues...They had contact YESTERDAY.
And even if you had a great conversation and talked long into the night, she still talked to OM yesterday, and you have no idea the content of her conversations with him.
She is still lying, still in contact with him.
Forgive me for asking -- but have you exposed this on his side of the equation? No, I'm not letting up on the spying. Thanks for the reality check. No, I haven't exposed to any of his side...would take a little research to figure out just who his side is. What about workplace exposure since my W quit her job there because of this? I'm kind of running out of gas here and appreciate whatever input you guys have to things I am missing.
Me (BH)
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Get that research done North.
OM keeps diddling around with your wife because there are no consequences not to. Except for having to delete your voicemails...
Find out everything about him and EXPOSE.
Tell his friends, family, and facebook community. Tell his boss, his co-workers, and his church. Most especially tell his wife or girlfriend.
That is your #1 job today.
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Ok, will start making a list.
As for workplace exposure, the most common letter shown here is for when the two still work together and goes over wasted company resources, etc.
What do you recommend for when they no longer work there? "Hey, my wife quit because she was having an affair with a-hole, thought you'd like to know?" See where I'm getting stuck?
Me (BH)
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Then start with family and friends.
No excuses.
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How is the communication occurring?
Secret email accounts and house phone.
You can monitor email access. keep in place and continue monitoring.
You cannot monitor house phone. Remove phones from home. She has a cell phone.
What other ways can see communicate with OM?
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No, no no, don't get me wrong--I want to tell his coworkers, etc. but could use some advice on what to say in the letter.
So far, I've got four "higher ups" that I can target with it.
Me (BH)
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Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2
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How is the communication occurring?
Secret email accounts and house phone.
You can monitor email access. keep in place and continue monitoring.
You cannot monitor house phone. Remove phones from home. She has a cell phone.
What other ways can see communicate with OM? By cell phone internet. I just spoke with her dad telling him that text/internet have to go from that phone. He's thinking about it.... Other ways she could contact OM-- by her computer (keylogged), house phone or secret phone. She's a SAHM so the kids will defintely put a crimp on travelling to see him.
Me (BH)
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You can put a recorder on your home phone.
You just need to find a jack that you can put the recorder on, that will allow it to be hidden. Plug the recorder into the jack, and the phone into the recorder.
It will pick up the conversation on any line. This way you get both sides of the conversation.
Or put a VAR into the most likely room that she would be having a conversation with OM.
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That works, both phone jacks are behind heavy pieces of furniture. Will google that.
Me (BH)
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The thing is, I coached her on what to say in her first NC note. I know it should have come from her, but I was just hoping that what I said was what she wanted to say.
Well, I learned from that one. I'll broach the NC letter again and thanks for the idea about a handwritten note followed by a pleasant experience. Makes sense.
So, any suggestions for what to say if she responds as she did before-- "Well, what do I say in the letter?" The first time around, that's when I went through a three or four sentence thing that I'd read on here. She typed it up and sent it.
I want her to do the NC letter because she wants to, otherwise it's pointless. Right? Look, a waywards mind is not very clear nor is it focused. She will need some help writing the letter. Dr. Harley suggests something along these lines: [from SAA, pg 58] OM, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my husband and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that "H's NAME" did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay "H's NAME" for the pain I caused him, I will do my best to become the wife he has been missing. I care a great deal for "H's NAME" and my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship. Sincerely, WW I also like this one: (Of course you'll need to correct the gender issues) NC Letter: posted 10/8/10 by schoolbus
OW,
The AFFAIR I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt MY WIFE, AS WELL AS MY CHILDREN, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I HAVE ALREADY BEGUN to work hard to be the best husband that she deserves, AND TO TRY TO MAKE THIS UP TO MY FAMILY WHO ARE DEVASTATED BY OUR THOUGHTLESS AFFAIR.
Because of the terrible offense to my WIFE and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. DO NOT EVER contact me in any way at any time. THE FUTURE OF MY FAMILY DOES NOT INCLUDE YOU, AND THIS MEANS NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES.
My spouse has all the details of our relationship and she will also be told of any attempts at contact. I AM ASHAMED OF MY BEHAVIOR WITH YOU. I CANNOT BELIEVE I TURNED MY EYES AWAY FROM MY LOVE FOR MY WIFE, FOR EVEN A MOMENT, AND I PLAN TO SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE SHOWING HER THE MAN I KNOW SHE DESERVES.
WH
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Uh... Your WS needs consequences for continuing A.
What are they? You moddle-coddle WS. This FR is going to kill you. Do not punish your wife! Plan A is an attempt to bring your wife out of the affair and back into a SAFE marriage. Punish her and you will effectively kill all the deposits you are working hard to make. Exposure is an effective tool - it's not a punishment.... so focus here, OK!
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Do not punish your wife!
Plan A is an attempt to bring your wife out of the affair and back into a SAFE marriage. Punish her and you will effectively kill all the deposits you are working hard to make.
Exposure is an effective tool - it's not a punishment.... so focus here, OK! "Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover. "
Pulling off a great Plan A is a journey of self-control guided by YOUR Giver ....
Remember the goal of Plan A is to make yourself an attractive alternative to the other person ... the third party interloper.
This requires you to hush your Taker ... at least for a time .... telling your Taker :
"Hush now. I know you want to take charge and protect me from hurt. And you will be given that chance, but I must allow my Giver sufficient time to make sure I am once again attractive to WS."
.... and for awhile ... your Taker is able to hush ... but there comes a time when your Taker will just overwhelm your Giver ... in an effort to protect you from further hurt.
Look for the internal warning signs that your Taker is going to smash your Plan A efforts to smithereens and love-bust that cake-eating-so-and-so ......
signs the end of Plan A is near
>you have mental lovebusting conversations telling off your WS .... and now they are starting to become out-loud when you are alone ... like the shower or driving in traffic ... it's almost time
>you are weeping more not less
>You cannot eat or sleep
>You think you are going crazy
>You begin to say to yourself:
"Is this guy/gal REALLY worth it?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now my friend ... it is time for you to get your Plan B ducks lined up.
Don't wait until you are 100% fed up ... get Plan B ready-to-go .... before you completely surrender your Plan A to your Taker
It is tempting to think of your Giver as "the good guy" and your Taker as "the bad guy" ... but you'd be incorrect!
Both exist because both are necessary
Your Taker cannot be "the bad guy" ... because your Taker loves and protects YOU
The effective Plan A'er can stand aside as the natural consequences of adultery happen.
But, do not be the executioner who kills your WW's love bank balance.
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Ok, will start making a list.
As for workplace exposure, the most common letter shown here is for when the two still work together and goes over wasted company resources, etc.
What do you recommend for when they no longer work there? "Hey, my wife quit because she was having an affair with a-hole, thought you'd like to know?" See where I'm getting stuck? Sending an exposure letter to the workplace is only good if they work together. Don't waste your time on that. I would like to know why you haven't exposed to OM's side. That should have been one of the first things you did! OM has suffered NO consequences for this A except for the occasional poodle-yapping at his ankles (your texts, which you can guarantee he deleted after reading the first sentence or two.) Texting him might make YOU feel better, but likely does little to discourage him. Especially when he just got done talking to his girlfriend (your WW.) You need to put together that NC letter and expose this to his side. Also, you need to sit a little higher in the saddle, North. It is very unlikely that your WW is going to want to divorce you if you set the bar high. But I suspect she senses your fear of what she might do (hell, I can smell it all the way over here.) Let her know that there will NOT be two men in this relationship!
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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I would like to know why you haven't exposed to OM's side. That should have been one of the first things you did! OM has suffered NO consequences for this A except for the occasional poodle-yapping at his ankles (your texts, which you can guarantee he deleted after reading the first sentence or two.) Texting him might make YOU feel better, but likely does little to discourage him. Especially when he just got done talking to his girlfriend (your WW.) I didn't expose to his side because: 1. I didn't know anyone of his side 2. It was easier to just do my wife's side 3. I thought that #2 would be sufficient and let my guard down. You need to put together that NC letter and expose this to his side.
Also, you need to sit a little higher in the saddle, North. It is very unlikely that your WW is going to want to divorce you if you set the bar high. But I suspect she senses your fear of what she might do (hell, I can smell it all the way over here.) Let her know that there will NOT be two men in this relationship! I have the names of, I believe, a sister and his mother and father. Facebook is turning up a bust, but he's 38 so maybe he never got involved in it. I really want to find his ex-wife (have her maiden name) but I'm not sure why I want to talk to her. Maybe to just get their history, what she knows of his family, I don't know---that might backfire but it's a separate issue from the letters to his sister and parents. As for sitting higher on the horse, yep, you smell pretty good and your impression is correct. Not really having a solution to that right now (hopefully will have one this afternoon), what did you mean when you said It is very unlikely that your WW is going to want to divorce you if you set the bar high.or are you trying to subtly  say that women don't respect weenies?
Me (BH)
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Thanks Pepper and Papa for the reminder. Right now, it seems, I'm walking a line between doing a doormat Plan A and...well, who knows. Not wanting to screw this up sometimes gets me overwhelmed, got to get out of that.
Me (BH)
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I didn't expose to his side because:
1. I didn't know anyone of his side
2. It was easier to just do my wife's side
3. I thought that #2 would be sufficient and let my guard down. Oy vey! Where is my 12" Catholic School nun's ruler, so I can smack your hand!  Okay, No. 1: you've been on this site long enough to know that there are many, many ways to get info on OM'S family. Here's one, right off the top of my head: www.intelius.comGoogle his name and you'll get associated names, with ages. Look for people who are 20-35 years older than OM. Those are probably his parents. Look for a female who is close in age. That's probably his wife. Look for males or females within 3-5 years of him with the same last name. Those are probably sibs. You can get more info on each name by googling each name individually. Geez Louise, North. No. 2. It was easier to just do your wife's side. Okay. Promise me you will pay it forward and chastize any poster on here who says this in the future. Pinky-swear, North. I mean it. No. 3. You didn't let your guard down. You just didn't finish. Exposure is like the winter storm we just had. It covers everyone!
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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"It is very unlikely that your WW is going to want to divorce you if you set the bar high."
or are you trying to subtly say that women don't respect weenies? I'm saying that if your WW wanted out, she would have been gone by now. She's not going to pack her bags and head home to her mama because you're insisting upon complete fidelity. But remember: she is watching you through her foggy lenses. What does she see? A man who is taking decisive action to protect his marriage, or a man who is tentatively fumbling along, trying not to offend anyone? So yeah, since you mentioned it: Women don't respect weenies! Make your stand and make it a solid one. And don't finish your requirement sentences with "if that's alright with you, dear." Ish!
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Okay, No. 1: you've been on this site long enough to know that there are many, many ways to get info on OM'S family. Here's one, right off the top of my head: www.intelius.comGoogle his name and you'll get associated names, with ages. Look for people who are 20-35 years older than OM. Those are probably his parents. Look for a female who is close in age. That's probably his wife. Look for males or females within 3-5 years of him with the same last name. Those are probably sibs. You can get more info on each name by googling each name individually. Geez Louise, North. Busted. But in about twenty minutes I got the names and addresses of three relatives so I'm ready to go on them. I'll post a letter, let y'all take a look. No. 2. It was easier to just do your wife's side. Okay. Promise me you will pay it forward and chastize any poster on here who says this in the future. Pinky-swear, North. I mean it. Yeah, I pinky-swear and am usually critical of those that are wishy-washy. A double-standard, I guess. No. 3. You didn't let your guard down. You just didn't finish. Exposure is like the winter storm we just had. It covers everyone! Well, we don't get snow down here that often, but I'll take your word for it. Yes, I didn't finish the exposure and am now seeing the results of that.
Me (BH)
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