You deserve it Scotty.

Not, I gave your question some SERIOUS thought last night. I wrote out a list of things that I would have with THIS marriage, both good and bad, and then I wrote a list of things I would have in a new marriage, also both good and more difficult. I still side with the current marriage as my better option, for now. So, that is where I stand. Continue Plan B, cuz that's where I want to be. Thanx for not letting me get stuck.

This week, DSx2 have only WANTED to talk to Bampot on Monday. They ignored the phone calls on Wed Thurs, and Fri. Bampot always calls them when he is on the way to pick them up. This morning, Bampot called as usual and then DS10 said, "I dunno, I will have to ask." Apparently, Bampot asked if DSx2 could sleep over. DS10 had already asked DS8 and they were excited to sleep over. By law, if we had a custody arrangement, Bampot WOULD get them every other weekend for a sleepover at a MINIMUM. I told them that it was up to them. Also, he is taking them sledding and they brought their GT snowracers with them. I am MAD at this. How do I handle this?

You are mad about the sleepover or them taking their sleds? I think he should have contacted your IM's ahead of time to let you know his plans but as time goes on (if he does not get a cranialrectotomy) you will need to decide if the boys will take some of their stuff from home on outings of if Bampot needs to duplicate what they have at home.

We try to keep whatever OC needs here at home. His mother sends clothes but everything else we provide. I would even be ok with it if she didn't send clothing, I am happy to have a second set here. Either way, I have never expected her to send toys, games whatever and really if this becomes permanent, neither should Bampot. JMHO.

Have you stopped to examine what you are really mad about here?

Many times to feel a bit of control (even though we know a ws has lost control) they try to exert it and do things without going through proper channels.

You're mad because he is trying to get the kids to like him more, and also because he didn't go through proper channels, asking the IM to ask YOU IF he could have the kids and if he could take the sleds. Instead, he did wayward style, and TOLD the kids what HE WOULD BE DOING.

My wxh used to do that all the time. He would ignore what the schedule was, or try to disrupt things. He'd try to get me to send all kinds of stuff with my ds and then after the fact I'd get only about half of it back, which would lead to me having to contact him to get it back (which might have been his goal since I remained in a modified and dark plan B for the most part after the d).

Typical wayward fashion. Tell, dictate, what they are going to do rather than ask.

I'd say this gives a bit of insight into where your ws is mentally right now. Taker still wanting to take take take..

Hang in there Scotty. He cannot do whatever he wants. He has to know that he has a responsibility as a father to have a home where HE provides the necessary things for his children during his scheduled visits.

Why don't waywards ever get that part? Hugs gal.

My thoughts also. Do the Boys know how its supposed to work, or has BP used your desire for them to see thier father against you also?

You should have a talk with the boys and discuss that schedules will not be changed other than with a request thru IM, and that they are not to answer those questions if asked.

Maybe the boys will learn about manipulation through this, poor boys, but at least they will learn about it.

Was that what you were mad at scotty?

I was mad, and still am mad, because he didn't use the IMs. He hasn't used the IMs, to my knowledge, since I switched to an MB IM. I don't even know if the IMs changed. My last IM decided to dictate how Bampot wrote to her, so I switched.

See, what if I said, "No." Then *I* would have disappointed DSx2 since they wanted to sleepover, which was weird because only 1/2 an hour earlier, they didn't even want to go with Bampot today.

The sled thing just annoys me because they belong to THIS house. They belong to MY family. GRRRRRRR. This has also happened before about the sleds. It just irks me that Bampot feels like he still gets benefits of THIS house when he chose to leave it. Months ago, the other time that DSx2 slept at WF's, I got an email about how he had to buy them clothes so they couldn't do what he had planned, blah blah blah.

And a vent about the sleepover coming now. I can guess that there is some reason that he has asked the boys to sleepover tonight and it most likely has NOTHING to do with wanting to spend more time with them. ARGH

So how do I talk to the boys about this without it sounding like I am using the boys to pass messages to Bampot about what he is supposed to do? Also, do I get my IM to send a message about it? Any help is, as always, GREATLY appreciated.

I totally agree with Pep.

I would ask the IM to send this message to Bampot:

"Your wife has asked me to let you know that any future deviation from the usual visitation arrangements should be cleared with your wife prior to the date by sending a message through me instead of asking the boys; otherwise, the visitation will be as previously scheduled and without any deviation."

Kinda reminds me of when we first got an above-ground swimming pool. The neighbor kids and their parents were told right off the bat that there would be NO unsupervised swimming. Then, for the first couple of days, the kids would be at my back door, asking to go swimming. Now, if I was already watching my kids swim, that was fine. However, I quickly realized that they would pester the living daylights out of me if I didn't set some more ground rules. They would start knocking on the door at 7:30 in the morning and knock every 30 minutes!

I finally told them, "I will invite you to go swimming pretty often, but if you knock on my door and ASK to go swimming, the answer will ALWAYS be 'NO'!"

For the next couple of days after that, they would come over, wearing their swimsuits, and hang around my yard. Well, these kids were kind of bad about getting into stuff, so I didn't want them hanging around outside while my kids were inside or gone somewhere. I then told them, "Coming over here in your swimsuits is the same thing as asking to swim, so if you show up in your swimsuits and hang around, you will NOT be invited to swim."

After that, there was no problem!

You need to let Bampot know that trying to use your kids to get what he wants will ALWAYS mean a big, fat "NO"!

As for the boys, just tell them what Pep said about going through the IM.

I DID tell them this morning that this is something that needs to be passed through the email IM and not through THEM. I was caught off guard and they were so excited that I really didn't know how to react. I believe that this WILL happen again, so I want to be prepared.

You bet your boots it will. Are you all puckered to say "NO!!!!!!!!"? Good, then you're ready.

Sorta a T/J, but I can relate to what LC went thru, and also say BP is acting like the kids she dealt with also.

I would contact your current IMs, and have them contact BP, as suggested. They should be the heavys as to the rules. His using the inside and tender emotions of you and the boys desire for contact to fit his whims is manipulative. He does not have that place anymore, you are not taking care of his children for his convienience, you have a right to structuring your life even if he does not respect how you feel, and wants to drag your heart around, at his convienience.

Once the rules are established clearly, you can have a discussion with the boys, and do not be afraid to tell them how this upsets you. Its part of the greater lesson of why also, that they might not understand right now fully, but will need to in the future, that..

There is more to the marriage commitment than skirting the rules, and more deeper emotional needs that both parties must attend to, than food and shelter. Those are a given to anyone who loves you, and a priveledge to supply, not a proof of love.

I know this will be hard to show little kids, but you have allready taught them this and they do understand it Scotty we all know. Now maybe them following the rules so you will get the proper respect you deserve, and need, for yourself, will help you heal, as you seem to be the only one who knows this between you and BP.

You are rebuilding your life also, and nowhere does it say you cannot have a structure that prevents this kind of manipulation. The boys do not see the manipulation as the cruelty it is to you yet, and you need to establish boundaries that protect you also. BP has caused this by his actions, you do not have to take it, you are raising them to understand cosequences, and the consqeunces to his actions have hurt thier Mom and thier relationship with thier Dad. You didn't bring this on, you have done verything to prevent it and reconcile.

Prayers for ya Scotty Rocks

The boys are home safe and sound and they had a good time over there. Is it wrong that I am mad about that a bit? I am HAPPY for my kids, mad that they didn't give Bampot a hard time. This lovely weekend will most likely feed into Bampot's idea that the kids are fine and that everything is okay, that what he did isn't wrong(the A and leaving). Why is it that when they go there on the regular days, they DO give Bampot a hard time, but this weekend they were on their best behaviour? I guess it is because it was something different and that I raised my children to behave at some else's house. Sorry guys, just venting. Don't really care one once about what Bampot thinks about this, I KNOW that ALL of this is WRONG WRONG WRONG. Grrrrrrrr

I WILL have the talk with DSx2 about any future sleepovers. I will need to calm down a bit first though. I don't want to say something I may regret. Once something is out there, you can't take it back.

That's one thing I admire about you. You are very measured and deliberate. You don't just react; you stop and plan what you should do and how you should handle each obstacle.

Scotty,
I UNDERSTAND how the boys having a good time is a source of frustration for you; its good that you stop and plan how to approach each situation.
YOU never want to be the one that spouts anything bad about the other parent. The immediate results are not apparent - but the long term results are. (I have been dealing with stepchildren and waywards behavior - indirectly at first - for a very long time)
I think that had the boys behaved or misbehaved would not have been enough to tell BP that they are not "just fine". Had they misbehaved it would have been blamed on probably one of several factors; "they are boys", "they are at that age", or potentially you - "their mother is brainwashing them".
The waywards behavior or the A is never the culprit in the waywards eyes.
JMHO
But for you always being the "great mom" and the point of stability for them is what will have the most lasting results for you and for those boys. Be glad for your boys sake that they did have a nice weekend with their father.
And again I know how much that statement hurts. But I always look at what is in their best interest, no matter how much it may hurt me.
{{{{Scotty}}}}
Now to add to that; BP should not be allowed to deviate from protocol and the established schedule.

Absolutly not, and again I think BPs ability to circumvent the rules hurts you too, and might be holding back your own personal recovery.

The boys will only be as healthy as the healthiest parent IMO, and you are that one by far.

I don't see where using an authority outside of the way BP wants to play this is hurting anyone, or makes you a bad guy. Thats what it seems he is counting on in these communications thru the kids. Again you are supposed to bear all the burden and cater to all needs, even from the Biggest kid, BP himself.

The rules from the standpoint of normal IM communication should be something to respect for everyones emotional health, he is breaking those rules, and thats my point.

Ok I said enough, if nobody else chimes in it will have to stay the way it is, I'm not trying to cause trouble for BP or have him see the boys less, and it is beginning to sound like I am.

Just keep being that awesome Mom Scotty

Sorry I couldn't respond last night, my internet has been going out again.

I had the talk with DSx2 this morning. In a nutshell, I told them that I made a mistake for letting them sleepover on Saturday night because Bampot didn't use the IMs. I told them that I will NOT be making that mistake again. I told them that I am not opposed to them spending more time with their father, he just needs to follow the rules and when rules aren't followed, the answer will ALWAYS be, "No." I think they understand.

I did find out the reason for the sleepover on THIS weekend(as I KNEW I would). Bampot and OW took "the kids" to a french winter carnival yesterday and they left at 750am to have breakfast there. It is the same carnival that they attended last year. Selfish reasons for a sleepover, geez who woulda thought?

I had a LOL moment too(well not really LOL as it had to be done in my head but I DEFINITELY found it funny as H3ll). DS8 told me that he was having trouble sleeping. He was hungry. So, he woke Bampot up to get some food, at 5AM. HAHAHAHAHAHA DS10 complained that they were BOTH hungry all weekend because Bampot keeps telling them that he doesn't have a lot of food. It's not like he starves them, so it isn't really something that needs to be addressed with Bampot, just shows how much of a turd someone who USED to be a GREAT father, becomes when they become wayward.

On another note, when I asked DSx2 if they want to sleepover on a regular basis, they QUICKLY said, "NO." Guess we will keep the schedule the way that it is.

Well of course lol. Can't stop thinking now can we?

Good news Scotty Rocks