Two weeks ago tonight I confronted my WS with the fact that I knew she was having an affair. I did not find this site until a day or two later (did not get to the forum until a day or two ago), so I handled things the best I knew how. First, some background. My WS and I are coming up on our 15th anniversary this year. We have three children, and have only ever had the normal difficulties in our marriage. She met the OP 4 years ago, and I never had a problem with their friendship until recently. She knows him through work, and he lives in a different state. Last summer, she started traveling a lot (monthly for 4-6 days each) with work. I always knew where she was and if he was there as well (minus one occasion). I know my WS very well, and I started picking up subtle changes in her behavior shortly after this traveling started. I discovered a few things along the way that I found suspicious, but she always had a plausible excuse for whatever it was.

Two weeks ago, she started a two-week class with work, about an hour away from our home. They put her up in a hotel because of the long days required and the long commute. The day after she left, I went to the hotel, presented my ID and got a key to my wife�s room. There, I planted a listening device. The following day, I went back and had all of the evidence I needed. Turns out, he was at the same course and they had adjoining rooms, how nice. During the day she kept the adjoining doors closed. That night, when I entered the room, they were open. I waited for them to return, and closed him in his room while I confronted her. Of course she denied all, but that only lasted until presented with the evidence. She then told me everything.

It started 5 months ago as an EA and only recently turned into a PA. A PA that, up to that point, had not been consummated due to his inability to perform (the only reason this matters to me will follow shortly). She gave me all the classic reasons for the A. She said the marriage was most important, but she was confused and she obviously had deep feelings for the OP. She came home that night, but declined to withdraw from the course. They both changed rooms the next day. Over the next few days, we talked often, I saw her once, and she told me about any contact that she had with the OP. On D-day + 3, she allowed him into her room, after saying goodnight to me on the phone, and he managed to overcome his previous �short� comings. This fact hit me harder than the initial discovery.

In the 10 days since then, WS has agreed to NC, and she has communicated this to the OP. She has contacted a counselor and set up an initial appointment for herself, with a joint appointment to follow. The OP had already been looking for a transfer before the confrontation, but until he transfers, she will have to have occasional telephone contact with him. They had their next three trips lined up over the next five months, but they have agreed to alternate who goes on which trip. We have both been reading the steps on MB on overcoming this, and I believe she is committed to working things out.

Onto exposure. I exposed to both our parents. She told some of her close friends and her sister. It gets tricky after that. They are both in the military. If it got out at their WP�s, it would put an end to both of their 20-year careers. In his case, it would most likely land him in military prison due to the fact that he exploited his position to arrange certain trips for himself, under false pretense, just to coincide with her trips. Also due to the fact that he is in a position above her and has power and influence in the direction her career goes. If it were exposed to the OP�s friends or the OPS, it would more than likely work its way into the WP and come back on my WS.

I have read that threats are no good, and it�s better just to expose, but in this case I was thinking it better to contact him and present him with the fact that I have overwhelming evidence. I�d ask him to respect her whishes and end all contact. What do you think of this idea? Also, should it not bother me so much that she slept with him 3 days after the initial confrontation? She says she was still confused at that point, tired of crying all of the time, and gave in to a moment of weakness. I almost walked away from our marriage when I found this out, and she can�t understand how that night (and next afternoon) hurt me so much more than the five-month EA/PA.

In my opinion, the last two weeks have gone just about as well as they could go. Things have been overly civil between us and she has been stricken with grief over what she has done to our family. She has never blamed me for this happening, although I know it was because her emotional needs were not being met.

Sorry for the length of this, but I wanted to get all of the facts out there. I look forward to any and all help that all of you can provide.

JohnW,

How old are your children? I have a lot of thoughts on this but I suspect your W is still lying, most likely to herself. It is not unusual for the WS to not see the damage they have done to the marriage.

I take it from your post that you are set on saving this marriage is that right? How about your W? Given her "confusion" does she really think she wants to be married to you.

I am exmilitary, my father was career. I have a very hard point of view about all of this so take what I say with the knowledge of my bias. People in the military are entrusted with weaponary, the lives of other people, and the responsibility to do hard difficult things when called upon. It takes people of great integrity to do this. Frankly, neither your W nor her OM raise to the level of trust I would expect. He has misused tax payer money for trips that were not required so that he could carry on the affair.

The military should know what sort of man they have put in a position of authority.

As for his "short comings", I have some doubts about that given the "timing" of his cure. I suspect it has been physical longer than your W has admitted.

The issue is you need openness and honesty in your marriage. If you get it, can you handle it? I am not encouraging you to run away from what you fear you might hear, heck you have already heard and seen the worst. But, do your best to get yourself on as sound an emotional footing as you can.

One way to do this is to develop a plan to recover your marriage. You will get many good ideas if you start reading Harley's four rules for a good marriage, his articles on love busters, and finally the articles on needs. You need more intel, but you need a plan for this marriage to really recover.

I am sure many others will be posting to you tomorrow so hang in there. The folks here will help you as best they can.

God Bless,

JL

JL,
Thanks for the response. The children are 11, 8 & 3. My WS does indeed see the damage she has done. From the start, her only excuse has been that it was a selfish act and she continued with it as an escape from reality. As I said, she has not yet leveled any blame on me. From our conversations, I take her confusion as this; it was an A that she thought would never be found out. She thought it would end on her terms. Her world was turned upside down when she walked into her hotel room and found me there. She had a love for the OP and she didn't know what to make out of it. All in all, it took her 4 days to dedicate herself to reconciling.

As to the "short" comings; the fact that they had not consummated the relationship prior to D-day is moot. The intent was there. The attempt was there. I believe her reconstruction of the events. She recounted every trip in the last five months, and her story of what happened each night has stayed the same. Also, the recording from two weeks ago clearly places them in bed together attempting to have sex. She never heard the recording, but from my account, she knows I know about specific conversations they had. She thinks I heard everything that was said while they were in bed. She has commented that, if I listen, I will hear them discuss his "short" comings at the end of their encounter. I cannot make that part out. Also, I did a semen test on her panties that I took the day of the confrontation. It came back negative. The panties I tested the next week were positive.

As far as openness and honesty, my WS has not given much voluntary, but when presented with a direct question, I believe she is telling the truth. She has given me a lot of information that has incriminated the two of them. Included in this info, are the facts that would land him in jail. I would have had no idea if she had not provided the information. She has also willingly given up any secret means of communication that they have used. I ask hard questions, and I have gotten a lot of dirty details. I can handle the truth. I want the truth.

I have been reading everything on MB that I can to guide me through this. I have not bought SAA because I believe we can get through this with the insight we both have gained from our readings here. I have bought Fall In Love, Stay In Love, because we both recognize the need to be the best spouse possible for each other.

I appreciate your comments on the military aspect of things, but at this point, I am not willing to throw away the 20 years she has invested in this career.

Thanks for your comments, I look forward to hearing more.

JohnW

JohnW, I don't believe that your WW may be in that much trouble regarding the military unless the OM is married. Is he? If not and he is in a position of authority over her he is in some deep doodoo if you press the issue. Also, I would strongly suggest you get a copy of SAA.

If you've been reading these boards I'm sure you've noticed how strongly the vets here feel about exposure. It needs to happen at work and if the OM is married his BS needs to be told. I can understand your position on your WWs career but really...when it comes right down to it...what's more important? Her career or you and her's marriage.

L4S

L4S, he is married. They are both at a very high rank in the military. She just received a job that gets her to the rank she wants to take into retirement. It starts in two weeks. I do believe that it would surely put an end to her career. As I've said, she has actively sought out information on how best to recover from this. She mentioned on the phone this morning that maybe she should just walk away from the job, because it will be difficult to maintain strict NC. In addition to having business calls to each other, they also need to contact each other to deconflict any trips away from home.

Yes, the marriage is definitely more important than the career. My feeling is that if I put an end to it, it will surely be a road block down our road to recovery. Don't get me wrong, I would most definitely go nuclear if I thought for a second that she would stray again.

Has she written a NC letter to OM that you reveiwed and sent yourself? What other ACTIONS has she taken to ensure NC? IMO this will be very difficult for you if NC is not verified and extraordinary precautions (EPs) are not put in place and waiting for the next time to expose will only nearly guantee a next time.

You said marriage is definitely more important. Are those her words also? Get a copy of SAA. Will you do that? There is much in there that can help your situation that these boards cannot fully cover.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, my friend. I am sorry this has happened to you and glad you are here.

What will happen if you follow through on the plan above, is the OM and your WW will go further underground and your marriage will not recover. What you are doing here is protecting them from the consequences of the affair at the expense of your marriage. The affair will not end until the OM's wife and their commanders are told about the affair.

Just think, the only way you would ever know if they have trips planned together again is if she tells you. You would be relying on the word of a liar and will live in unmitigated hell wondering each and every day.

But if you report the affair to their commanders and to the OM's wife, you will have all those extra eyes watching and can ensure they don't meet again.


You are protecting the guilty party instead of your marriage, your family and the US taxpayer? Can I ask why you protect him, the guilty party, and not the innocent parties? Can I ask whose side you are on, Sir?

This might be one solution, but still the OM's wife will have to be notified so she can protect herself from the OM and your wife.

Affairs thrive and grow on secrecy, John, and this is a new affair. It can be killed dead if you expose it now. Pass up this opportunity and you are likely facing a long term affair. If you help the lovers keep their secret and protect them from any consequences, you are increasing the risk the affair will resume and preventing recovery of your marriage.


The biggest roadblock to your recovery is her career, the affair and your protection of same. Ending her career will not be a roadblock, it IS the roadblock. So is your secrecy.

Here is a radio clip where Dr Harley explains to a BS, whose wayward wife was leaving him because her workplace affair did not end after 2 years, that it is hard to save a marriage when you become an enabler. Please listen to this clip: click here


here

In the radio clip, please note that it was Ron's [BS] failure to expose that led to his wife leaving him. Because he didn't expose the fog was never lifted and the affair RESUMED. This is why affairs don't die when they are kept secret. The fog never lifts so the affairee either resumes that affair or goes onto another affair.

The BEST thing that can happen is that the affair is exposed. This would kill the affair and inject a much needed dose of reality so this doesn't ever happen again. Protect them from the consequences of their actions and you hurt THEM. You increase the likelihood the affair will resume or another affair pursued.

Another thing to consider is that if they are held accountable for their actions by the military, would that be a bad thing or a good thing? If a criminal is forced to face legal penalties for his theft isn't that a good thing? Won't that teach him a much needed lesson that helps him become a better person in the future?

Why would you deprive the OM and your WW of one of the most valuable lessons they could ever receive? That only enables them to go out and do this all again.

If the OM and your W ruin their careers over their adultery, won't the cause be their own actions?

Agree with MelodyLane. I have yet to see a fully successful recovery here on MB where the other person's betrayed spouse was kept in the dark. She has just as much right to know the truth about her life as you do/did. We can help you with a plan that MAY provide the best chance that the OM's betrayed wife doesn't blow this up beyond her family and cause your wife to lose her position...but it's a chance you just have to take. Ideas like...have a personal meeting with the OM's Wife...give her no physical evidence of the affair (maybe you allow her to listen to the recording but don't give her a copy) that she can use to indict or charge your wife and encourage her to not take revenge against your wife's career as THAT would be hurting you and your family (not just your wife). Of course, you can't control OM's wife and that makes this a leap of faith....but fear alone is not a reason to keep the secret and deny OM's wife the right to make informed decisions about her life.

Keeping their secret makes you a co-conspirator against the OM's wife. It brings you into their yuckiness...not away from it. It makes YOU wrong...too. You've got enough problems so why add to it by enabling secrecy.

How would you like it if she did this to you?

Mr. Wondering

No one ever regrets doing the right thing.

Doing the right thing often results in better outcomes.

For example, OM's wife may make the OM retire and move far, far away.

Mr. W

The best thing that could happen to the affairees is that they lose their jobs over this. That would help them learn their lesson so they don't make this mistake again.

That being said, I can't think if a single military exposure where the affairees lost their jobs. Rather they were reprimanded, separated and ORDERED by the commander to never see the affair partner again. It effectively broke up the affair while salvaging their careers and alerted the command to their destructive behavior.

One of the biggest issues I have here is that we have such loose cannons in our military using our tax dollars to carry on like this. People like this need to be controlled and/or removed, NOT PROTECTED. They are loose cannons who should not be in charge of anything.

People like this need to have jobs such as the door greeter at Walmart where they can't harm others. They are not fit to hold military positions.

John, tell his superiors the truth with evidence. Tell his wife right now, dont delay. Tell your wife's family members. Your family members... Also tell your kids what happened... She is in the fog still john.

Its better that om get his career ruined than you get your marriage ruined.

I honestly cant say your wife is telling the truth on his inability to perform... My wife said the same thing. Its a lie! Your wife is a liar and can't be trusted. Install a keylogger and get spyware for her phone.

John,
My ex-wife had 16 years in the Navy and was a cryptology/intelligence CPO with TS/SCI clearance when she started sleeping with her coworker (who worked beneath her). I was advised to expose the affair to the chain of command but I did not for the exact same reasons that you are citing. I claimed it would end her career and she was fully committed to rebuilding the marriage. And she was fully committed to the marriage...for about 12 months until she deployed to kuwait and started sleeping with a new coworker. By not exposing the first time, I protected her from the consequences of her actions and she never really learned about protecting the marriage.

Listen to your wife's words. She didn't have any real problems with the marriage and thought you would never find out about this. If you protect her now, I can practically guarantee you that she will eventually do it again. Besides, there is also the moral issue of informing the other man's spouse about the damage inflicting on her by your wife. If she had found out, would you not have wanted her to tell you? So if you don't tell her, you are a hypocrite.

Expose the affair and let the military do what they must. I think that they will not end your wife's career over this. If she is as high ranking as you say, she likely has a congressional appointment to her rank, which are generally not taken away. And MelodyLane said it very well. To not expose, you are protecting a criminal at the expense of the victim and the taxpayers.

I hope you choose the right thing to do.

L4S, I did not see her NC demand. She told me what it said, but it's just her word. I do believe it. She has also told me that prior to her giving the NC, he offered ways for them to stay in touch (phone cards, calls at work) that would be kept secret. She declined. I will go get SAA today. If I can't find it at a bookstore, I will download it from Amazon.

Melody, I listened to the clip. I guess the problem I have is this; the advice I'm receiving seems to say that there is only one way to handle an affair and you must use 100% of that method or you're doomed. In the clip, the caller has a wife that is in an ongoing affair that she refuses to leave. The BS is enabling the A by not taking the steps necessary to end it. From the reading I've done so far, exposure, plan A and plan B are all means to get the WS to come back to the marriage. Who's to say that the exposure we've had already has not accomplished this? Maybe it's just my wishful thinking, but I do think that she was brought back to reality.

I read through the board and I see all of these stories of how hard it is to get your WS back to the marriage. All indications, thus far, say that she knows what she did was wrong, she never wants it to happen again, and our marriage and family are the most important things to her. People seem to think that a marriage can overcome anything. In some cases, that's true. We obviously had troubles in our marriage, or I would not be here today. In working on our problems, I have to ensure that we are both happy and fulfilled in life, or I might find myself back here in a couple of years explaining D-day #2. If her career is to end, I want it to be by her choice, not because I blew it out of the water. I don't feel that the A was my fault, but I do feel that it's my job to see that it doesn't happen again.


I�m sure you�ve read Harley�s opinion on affairs. That we are all wired for them, and are but a step away from having one. The fact that they are in the military makes them no different. My WS is still a human being and she struggles with the same dilemmas as everyone else. Everyone thinks the military should be held to a higher standard. It�s hard to hold over 1.5 million Americans to a higher standard.


I�ve seen several! We had one at my base, just this past year. In many cases the member is allowed to stay in the military, but they never overcome the damage done to their career. They are often sent to court martial, and the outcome of that is usually a reduction in rank and a file that follows them around and prevents them from ever recovering.

I�ll write more after I get something to eat. Thanks for all the advice.
John

It really doesn't matter. It didn't make it less hurtful to know they weren't successful. I am 100% confident that what I heard on the recording was not sex. My evidence and her story line up. I also know that they did indeed have sex twice after the confrontation. She has provided those details. That's the part that bothers me the most.

John, ask her to write a no contact letter anyway. Waywards lie and I know you don't want to think of your WW as being capable of that. I guarantee most BS felt that way during a false recovery.

What is your plan to recover your marraige while WW and OM still work together? Chances are you'll find that pretty difficult to answer.

Absolutely! And to make sure that they are held to a higher standard there is the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), this is extra-constitutional law that is applicable to the Armed Services.

The OM and your WS took an oath to uphold the Constitution. By breaking their vows to marriage they are breaking their oaths they took.

L4S, I'll get her to do the letter. It makes sense. I know full well she is capable of still lying to me. One of my favorite sayings is "Trust, but verify". I don't yet trust her, so that'll make verification twice as important.

Some more background on her job. She is in the reserves, about ready to retire. She is about to be promoted to E-9, the highest enlisted rank. It's a part time job, but it culminates a lifetime career. Her job is a big part of who she is, and she's very good at it. As far as them working together, they are geographically separated. They would not have to see each other when she works. As I've said, there would be phone and email contact between them. He is currently looking for a job that would not necessitate them being in contact. He was already searching prior to the discovery of the A. I know because she has been friends with him for 4 years, and I've always known where he was, and what plans he had for the future.

John, why are you okay with this?

Just answer that. Why?