More unsavory than sex with another man's wife?

Pep,

I doubt Spike finds having sex with another man's wife unsavory. I would guess that he enjoys banging her as often as he can.

AM

Honesty & honor & integrity are unsavory?

Spike,

Are you currently an honest man with honor and integrity?

AM

Good advice and help all. I am still in the stage where I want some additional analytical assistance.

One of the things I was looking for when I first came to MB was someone with a situation that was somewhat similar to mine. Preferably one with a happy ending. That was long before the affair � so I was not interested in those things. I was arrogant and very judgmental about such things and knew with certainty that would never happen to me � infidelity was not my problem. I was one of those guys that looked at Bill Clinton as a weak and worthless creep. I had always told everyone that there was a very simple way to avoid affairs: Remain unattractive and have no female friends. This was very easy for me based on lifestyle and genetics. In my profession there are very few women and my hobbies are such that I never cross them socially.

With regard to Fog: Perhaps, but I never said that she deserved the affair or that there was any justification for it. I never have justified it. Not to myself, not to the Other Woman, not to her relatives with whom I have spoken to with regard to it.

With regard to the marriage revisionist history, there is none of it. If asked, my wife would probably admit to all of it (she did when we went to the IC thing way back when). She did not immediately cop to any of it or offer it, but when I mentioned it, and the counselor asked about she admitted to it �But�.�.

One thing my wife would say with regard to the marriage history is that the crap all started when I sided with my mom over some issue, but all of the general stuff (the initial threats) started before the event with my mother happened.

This fits in to the thing one of the other posters said with regard to �Nut Job�. She feels that I should support her no matter what she is doing. So if she engages in criminal behavior, I should immediately and totally become complicit in it. I have tried to tell her that that is not love, and I won�t do it.

She has never allowed my kids to spend time with their cousins from my side of the family nor visit their grand parents. Since my dad is dead, and my mother�s health is failing, this should be one point of contention that will end soon.

One other behavioral characteristic that has been VERY puzzling to me, and addresses some of the other posts is she NEVER bad talks me in public. In fact, if you talked to her, and she did not know that I had spoken to you about any of our history, she would tell you that I am the hardest working man she knows. She would also say that I run the house in a calm and orderly manner and have more patience with the kids than she does. She would tell you that I have the patience of job. I have never responded to any of her tirades in kind, and nave never recanted ANYTHING I have ever said to her. I have never said anything to her that was not true or that didn�t need to be said at the moment it was said. I rarely have even defended myself against any of her accusations. Luckily she has never asked me if I was having an affair. The normal �Tell Tale� signs don�t apply to us because of the general nature and tenor of the relationship since the beginning. And since she has taken an inimical posture with all of my friends and family, concealing the affair has not required any extraordinary measures on my part.

Along these lines, when we are out in company, she will complain about going (generally these are friends of mine) and make a big fuss � generally makes me wish I had not agreed to go in the first place. BUT when we get there, she settles in and hangs around me like a normal wife. An outside observer would conclude that she is head over heals in love with me and that as soon as we get home there will be sparks flying. And strangely, this lasts even when we leave. She is sanguine and pleasant throughout the experience. The other day we went to a SuperBowl party and a bunch of women were sitting around asking how she handles me being out of town when I travel. She was telling them how hard it was and how she misses me. One of the women asked if she drives me to the airport and picks me up. She told her that she has offered to do it many times, but since I am such a machine of efficiency, I have streamlined the process and preferred to do it myself. The whole time she is sitting next to me with her hand on my shoulder. I grinned at her because she knew this was BS. Early on, before the kids were in the picture, I would ask her to do just that. I had some fantasy about a joyous reunion. She could not be bothered. Perhaps she was working at the time, but I generally would leave on a Sunday evening and return Friday evening. She could have easily accommodated me, but figured she would be too tired or something.

Someone mentioned something about loud tirades while on a business trip during happy hour. While I don�t go to happy hour, I am a generally sanguine guy that has a profession that truly is my calling. I enjoy my work. I also enjoy (within limits) the normal things a man does in the maintenance of a home and family. Strangely (and one of the reasons I consider this to be one of her more �Nut Job� traits) she begrudges all of this. If I am traveling for work, I have learned to call and tell her how hard it is even though I generally consider the work fun and those I work with to be friends. She seems happier if she thinks I am struggling.

When in rare cases she complains about how much I do around the house I try to explain to her that cutting the grass, shoveling the snow, cutting the firewood, repairing the furnace, installing the water softener, and rebuilding the shower take a lot of my time � AND maintaining the business that buys the TVs and cars she needs, is a lot of work that should be credited to my account if we are going to be honest about tracking the division of labor around the house. To these she has repeatedly stated that they don�t count because I enjoy doing them so much. They are not considered work to her. To this, I state that if there were any way we could trade roles, and I could wash the clothes, drive the kids to school, walk the dog (take her to the dog park where all her friends are), and sweep the floors � and stay home with the kids all the time, rather than traveling all over Tinbcuktoo and doing the other things I do, I would trade in a heartbeat.

The problem with this (and I sense she recognizes it and these complaints have generally stopped) is that if I displayed pleasure in these tasks, she would begrudge them. If she thinks cutting the grass is so much fun, she should try it. I would never begrudge her the enjoyment.

Another ridiculously long post.

You know Spike, I'm noticing a big inclination on your part to word things to suit you and to dress up a tawdry situation.

This 'unsavory' word is one of them. Picking dog poop out of your tennis shoe tread is 'unsavory.' Touching under your seat and finding someone's wad of gum is 'unsavory.'

Destroying another man's world is 'devastating.' Oh, wait! You were talking about YOUR emotions! Got it!

In THAT case, I would suggest that you switch out the word 'tawdry' and replace it thusly:

Spike, have you ever heard the phrase "He damned her with faint praise"? That's every inch what you're doing here.

I would like to see your wife come here to tell us her story. I know that won't happen right now, because you're busy keeping your secret world intact.

When it is no longer all about you and your girlfriend, and you man up and confess this to your wife to give her a chance to contribute to an honest marriage, please tell her we are here waiting for her.

Spike, did you notice that in your latest post, exactly 2 short paragraphs are about your A, and everything else is about all of the things that are wrong with your wife?

It doesn't matter if you're coming right out and saying your wife deserved to be cheated on or not. Your attitude speaks volumes. It's a form of justification to point out all of the things that are wrong with your wife and marriage. That's what foggy waywards do.

And I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but this OW of yours is no friend, old or otherwise. Any woman who would sleep with a married man, with no regards for his wife or children, isn't a friend.

I once thought I was. One thing I have learned is that Honesty and Integrity require Honesty and Integrity, not just natural avoidance of hazard. It's very easy for an unattractive rogue in the constant company of men to avoid encomberances with Other Women.

It is clear that sooner than later, I will be forced to develop something that looks like Honesty and Integrity.

Yeah, I also noticed that he is spending much of his posts explaining why his behavior is dictated by the actions of others.

Spike, your affair is all on you ~ it has nothing to do with your W. If you aren't going NC, it is on YOU, not because of something you can or cannot get OW to do.

Time to take responsibility for your OWN actions.

" And I hate to be the one to inform you of this, but this OW of yours is no friend, old or otherwise. Any woman who would sleep with a married man, with no regards for his wife or children, isn't a friend. "

I considered this as well. None of it makes any sense.

Just a comment:

The "constant company of men to avoid encomberances with Other Women" is called a boundry or extraordinary precaution. It is one of the things responsible people do to avoid affairs.

AM

The matter of how horrible your W is is getting rather old and frankly, annoying. EVERY person who has ever had an A re-writes the marital history.

If it's truly as bad as you say, why in the world do you even want to attempt to save the M? I think you are trying to convince us AND yourself that your M is truly horrible because that is subconsciously helping you to justify your A. Please stop this, your excuses are not helping matters.


Do you mean a recovered and better marriage? If that is what you want, there are lots of us here. We've been in recovery for almost 4 years now and most times are M is better than it's ever been. I know for a fact that my H is in-love with me and wants to spend the majority of his free time with me.

You are making excuses and over-thinking ending your A. You cannot begin to work on the M while the A is still continuing. You are smart enough to know that, yet too weak to do what needs to be done. That is a bad combination.

Please man-up and end this godforsaken affair TODAY.

What doesn't make any sense?

It makes perfect sense. Your OW doesn't really care about you or your family. If she did, she wouldn't have been sleeping with you for the past 3 years.

We should make a rule on the forum that you're not allowed to whine about your spouse until you've already broken off all contact with your affair partner. It would save us a lot of pointless, boring hours skimming through meaningless drivel.

Spike,
Isn't what you are doing now, what you did all the early years, you just kept that list of errors your wife has made and let those things steer your thoughts, you could easily justify any behavior of yours as having a good reason.....that she didn't care any way.......
You have a long past that can't be changed now, no matter how many reasons you come up with........
I say just start over, stop the affair and really throw yourself into the marriage, be honest and say what you want, fix what is wrong, act the way you always imagined your marriage would be............there is a saying around here, when things are tough, fake it until you make it, your actions will eventually have feelings attached to them. Do all the things you wanted to do for your wife, have the marriage you wanted, the way you really wanted to act.......Forget the lists, no one is perfect, if you really love her then really show her.......
Think of all the good that could come out of that, I have never had a very loving relationship with my husband, he had an affair and now I have to say that we have found the love we should have always had, it's because his attitude towards me has really changed, he also had a list a mile long, things he thought I did wrong. He now just accepts me for who I am............He shows me he loves me and he isn't afraid to say it any longer........he now sees the value of a good relationship and connection.
You can have this too, fix things on your side of the street, your wife will notice, you could both fall back in love .......

Objective One Accomplished: I care again, and I am actively ashamed of myself. Hard medicine.

Books Ordered:

Affair has to end, and I have to deal with the fallout.

OW will recover. Her husband loves her.

Wife will deal with whatever happens.

When are you going to end the A?

A timeline is needed. Fridays are always good days because then all affair partners/spouses have the weekend to have meltdowns and spend 48 hours together trying to figure out what to do.

TODAY is a good Friday to do this.

May I tweak your To-Do List a bit?

- Affair has to end, and I have to deal with the fallout. Phone call to OWH confessing A. Immediate NC with OW.

- Confession of affair to BW. Beg for forgivenss and help BW deal with the fallout (it's not about you, Spike, you foggy half-wit! Sorry, I mean, you foggy spouse, you.

- NC letter to OW, to be read by BW, approved by her, and mailed by her.

- Books ordered and read. Questions brought to the MB board for answers.

- Tell BW about MB and let her know that the posters there are waiting to help her deal with this tragedy.

That should get you started.

Spike, has your W ever asked you if you're having an affair?

Has she ever asked you questions suspecting something's up?

Does she think you have a friendship with this OW/old friend of yours ... that you two correspond on a friendly basis?

What do you think your W thinks or knows?