Well, stretch, here is Dr Harley's advice. You should read the two sources and decide for yourself which you prefer. However, be aware that you cannot pick the parts of Marriage Builders that appeal to you or that you find easy, reject other parts where you can find contradictory and yet comforting advice from "experts' with unproven track records (like your wife's therapist), and then expect to end up with the kind of successful marriage that many people here have.

Should an affair be revealed?

I have been letting you in on some clues to infidelity when a spouse is unwilling to be truthful. But there are a few, of course, who are honest enough to tell their spouses about an affair without being confronted. Guilt sometimes sets in right after the first sexual encounter, and it continues to build as one lie is added to another. Depression follows guilt and it's not unusual for a wayward spouse to even consider suicide as a way to escape the nightmare he or she has created. As an act of desperation, honesty is sometimes seized as a last resort, often in an effort to relieve the feelings of guilt.

From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.

Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

The Policy of Radical Honesty is one of two rules you must follow to protect your spouse from your self-centered behavior, which includes affairs. The other rule is the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). If you were to be completely honest with you spouse, and you were to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, an affair would be impossible, unless for some reason your spouse wanted you to have one.

If you knew that your affair would be discovered -- that right after having sex with your co-worker, your spouse were to find out about it -- you would probably not go through with it. And if you were honest enough with your spouse so that YOU would be the one to tell him or her what you did, your honesty would be a huge reason to avoid any affair.

How the victimized spouse should respond to the revelation of an affair is a subject of a later column. I do not have the space to treat it here. But a spouse is twice victimized when he or she is lied to about an affair. Truth is far easier to handle than lies.

Some affairs, those like the husbands of R.J. and M.S., are discovered by their spouses. But as R.J. and M.S. have seen, knowing about an affair is only the first step toward recovery.

Full article here.

Yeah. No kidding. We need to have an agreement (POJA) in marriage.
Talking to my sisters this morning -- they could care less if their husbands use porn or go to a strip club and get aroused and over excited. They said they couldn't care less.

On the other hand, they agreed about "don't tell." One sister said to her husband, "If you had a one night stand I would rather not know."

Anyway, what my wife did was long term, emotional, of the heart, required a lot of premeditation, and she still can not let go.

I have not seen porn or a strip club since last summer

That sister may come to regret telling her husband that one day.

Hang in there stretch, you are doing fine.

Sometimes I cannot breathe. I am paranoid when she leaves the house... normal?

She gives us 6 months (maybe 2 years) for her to see a glimmer of hope. You see, I am in the position that she was ready to leave the marriage. And still is. So I need to do all the work on ME. The affair was because her EN's were not met. Also, ejector seat out of the marriage, also depression and mid-life crisis.

But she has been brutally angry with me for years and my emotional inventory tells me I have plenty to regret. (not the affair... but tons leading up to that.)

Her remorse and apology has not kicked in yet. She is in a hole. Fighting it. Does not yet grasp what she has done. My heart is exploding. She is still numb.

Meanwhile - You continue Plan A ans be meeting those EN's you've missed all these years!

You're going to be on this wild ride for a bit. Make sure you're getting as much rest and exercise as you can.

Stretch, you are damn right thats normal. You wife is following the textbook, and you need to be working the plan as hard as you can.

Just breath. You are in control as long as you stay on plan. Feels better than doing nothing doesn't it?

Stay strong

Stretch - hang in there bro! I'm in the same place as you, wrestling with the same demons. My WW shows no remorse about what she did, she's more concerned about how the exposure put people in her family 'in the middle'.

Try to stay strong!

She is reeling and needs a safe place to fall. We are talking a lot. We are making progress. It hurts that she is not more remorseful and ashamed and guilty and apologetic. Really hurts.

She told our counsellor today... "I left the marriage." I mean, she really, really checked out. Walking around like it was just too much and it was over. She just hung around for the four children. She is working on this with me. HEr head is thinking 6months? Maybe 2 years? And then stop and check...

She also says, "I am very sorry for your hurt." and "I know you want me to be more remorseful and sorry." But the fact is, she just is not. She seems numb. She has been living with this secret and processing it for so long.

Its hard not to be really angry. Sometimes, when I can barely breathe, its okay isn't it to just show the hurt and pain. Not be angry, but let her see my agony. I am calmer today. Last night I cried for about 5 hours.

Hello Stretch,

Have been looking in on your thread off and on to see what you would do.

"She is an amazing woman." Please delete that and get real - she is not at all amazing - My wife is - your ww is Not! We have been married for 42 years!

"She gives us 6 months (maybe 2 years) for her to see a glimmer of hope."

I would give a wife like that 1 Hour and 45 minuties to leave the home before I took my kids, left the house, and left her isolated and alone! You don't think that can be done, or don't think it is koshier? Well, if I was in your shoes the woman would watch me leave - with our kids!

There is one thing about saving a marriage as the vets advise here, and rightly so. It is quite another to cowtow to someone like this. I am sorry, but I have too much pride to ever do that.

There have been many many betrayed husbands on here over the last year, and most of them dont take advice, don't act proactively, just disappear, and of course they most likely lost their woman, probably lost their family, and are too ashamed to come back here!

Don't be one of those.

Tom

Tom, sorry. I cannot see your POV.
And its kinda confusing. Walk Out.... but don't be one of those men that lose their wife and family.... contradiction.

Anyway. I know her. I love her. And she is amazing. And I did not see it for years. I am sorry.

Feeling okay tonight. I think its all the crying. Cried hard all evening last night and went to sleep okay. Cried a few times today. The first half hour of our marriage session and then started to feel better. Then quite a bit tonight.

I know its a rollercoaster. Just on a steady straight right now. Expect the climbs, dips, dives and turns to come and haunt me.

We are talking. A lot. Working on ground rules. We need to quit when we've gone too long. She does not want to feel like she is fighting me or that she gets exhausted or trapped in the conversation.

Anyway, for tonight, I am breathing.

Saw a really low number on the scale this monring. Silver lining... lost more than a few pounds. Pants don't fit.

Its eating me up with the suspicion that another shoe will drop. Look back at our conversation about should it be revealed or not. My W believes in the Mira K. book about not revealing just for her own guilt. Keep it quiet so I won't get hurt.
But we'll never be completely faithful that way. If she insists on this way of thinking, I am afraid I will someday break my vow. Its death to the marriage by a thousand tiny cuts.

Her #4 EN btw ... O&H

I am so suspicious right now that there is more !

Polygraph. Schedule one.

You watch yourself very carefully. You would easily spiral into your own issues.

stretch,

Sometimes the truth trickles out. In my sitch it was that way. I hated it.

You need to make her feel safe when you two talk. No more marathons. Read my rules for talking. I will find them and bump it.

SB

Perhaps when the fog clears. Things were pretty lovey around her last night and this morning and most of today. She got back from her therapist, from her mom, and had a call with her brother and she was distant and silent.

As she decides to come back to the marriage, and the fog clears and the remorse kicks in... perhaps she will understand the commitment to O&H.

Good advice to make it safe to talk. No marathons. She requested time tonight.

I was good for half the day. Then cried from 4:30 to 9:30.
She said her therapist did ask how I am doing. Her explanation:
"He is pretty busted up. Can't sleep. Can't eat. Hyperventilating. Looking for a promise she cannot give right now. Its not fair on him because he is doing the work, wants to save the marriage. The cheater is not on her knees begging. The betrayed one is."

So there is recognition.

I goota believe in the philosophy of Plan A. And that her fog will slowly clear and she will find remorse and guilt and a commitment to our marriage. This could take 6 months?

Anyone have an experience? May I take a poll? How long did it take your WS offender to make that 180?

Clearly she is still in emotional shock. This radically changes the way she was fighting for a year and a half to maintain the lies and work through this all alone.

Well, I consider myself one of the lucky ones....NC started in late October, and my FWW is 100% back in the M. About 30 days after NC, she started coming out of the fog. Of course, I pulled a 180 too, and began being the husband she wanted and needed.

I am working extremely hard on pulling my own 180.
NC is not there yet. I mean, she has not tried to email him since Christmas. But felt a huge urge to do so a couple weeks ago. (the evening of DDay). I knew something was off and woke me up and told me to go snoop the secret email address.

So she still has OM in her brain. I read a lot from Harley about how she has to get rid of that. And how to. Before we can recover.

So in your "lucky case" Establish NC and then 30 days. She still needs to remove him from her mind.

After complete NC, your W will begin to de-tox. My W would have strong emotional flashbacks when something reminded her of the OM. She would literally be in tears over these flashbacks. It's no different than the physical withdrawal from an addictive drug.

Without NC, the de-tox will never happen.