We have to be careful about giving false hope...the odds might be close to zero...at some point. However, before they reach zero...it might take years. The A can go on and on, even on plan B. Plan B odds to work to restore the M are very low. Dr. H himself says that once separation happens chances to R the M are very slim...."because out of sight, out of mind" his words.

Plan B is for you. Yes definately cut the grapevine and to all the people who want to tell you about WH say firmly but politely: I am going to stop you right there...I am not interested about what my WH is doing these days. But thank you for your concern.

blessing

Do you think your WH is more interested in the financial aspect then the crypt keeper herself?

I would like to think that there is always hope, that somehow all waywards will snap out of it. I understand Plan B is for you and remove yourself from the drama of the affair, but the slim odds of your spouse coming back makes me sad.

I don't think he says "very low" or "very slim"...I went through Plan B and we are now in a fantastic recovery. There are others here who have had the same experience.

Unfortunately Dr. H is not very optimistic when it comes to spouses being separated and the WS is in an active A. He said that many time in his MB radio and also on the literature.
Yes, there are people who recover after a plan B and it is usually within a certain time frame (6 months maybe a year), but the odds are not very good.
Being realistic is the best way to personal recovery. Hope is just another trap for a future with lots of pain.
blessing

I took the following from the MB website, this is what Dr. H has to say about plan B
In other words, there odds are not so good.
And Dr H stresses this over and over again on the MB radio,,,that the end of the A does not mean M recovery. The WS can easily keep being wayward without showing any sign of repentance

Ditto in another post.

And as we all know we get burned out easily on plan A and very few BS are able to keep a leveled head and their sanity. So some times the last memory we leave the WS is not a very good one...
But of course there are some success stories and many of them are on this forum
Blessing

Well.......following plan A and then plan B are the best chance for recovering marriages.
The plans allow for a betrayed spouse to show their good stuff and then to go dark to move on without adding resentment fuel to the future. The best plans to follow for so very many, many, many reasons.

At least these are solid plans and we can't guarantee they will work but it gives her a much better direction than what she was doing before putting up with all the cake eating.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Time to stop the insanity.

The grapevine is my MIL, who has worked with OW in the past, and ironically same age as OW. She knows OW's family pretty well (but not enough to be friends with any of them). Small town where OW is from and where most of her family resides.

Could be...he has always been impressed by others who have alot of money...if he is choosing that over his family then he belongs with her.

I do understand the odds, but honestly...this is last ditch effort and I really am okay if he never comes back. When I laid down to sleep last night, I was overcome with an emotion that feels a lot like hatred toward him. I know that is probably not good. As he was crying to me the other night, he said he couldn't live with himself if I ended up hating him. As for "out of site, out of mind"...it makes my H crazy NOT to be able to see me, so lets just say with him it's "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

I plan on giving him the letter on either Sunday evening via email OR if he comes to town, I will give it to him Sunday night as he is leaving with a box of his clothing. I just noticed he has a ton of clothing hanging in the garage too that he probably never wears...How should I handle him getting that? I had thought about shipping it to his apartment in LA, but it's a ton of clothing...probably 50-60 shirts.

Before I give Plan B letter, should I tell him to take it out of here?

You will hate him, but eventually you'll reach the opposite of hate, which is indifference.

That's a wonderful place.

There should be an "addendum" to your PBL ~ this lists out the specifics of how PB is to be carried out ~ names your IM, states clearly that ALL communication needs to go through IM, how visitation will work, how finances will work, etc.

In the addendum you can put in there that his clothes will be packed in a box and left ________ for him to come and get ASAP. If he doesn't pick them up they will go to Goodwill by ________date.

Your PBL is a "love letter". Do not muck it up with this stuff. Put it in the addendum.

If possible I think it would be good to see him one more time ~ one last Plan A effort. I also think PBL should be in your own handwriting, with some of your perfume sprayed on it.

Can you get this to him somehow, even if he doesn't come into town?

Addendum on separate sheet of paper?

I think Plan B is going to be easy for him, he has avoided me like the plague since our last convo where he was crying. (Mon) night. I just find it so weird how he can't go 5 minutes without talking to OW, but can go DAYS without talking to me. I just honestly want to give up some days and just write out an "It's over" letter and there will NEVER be any chance for reconciliation, goodbye!

I think my case is extreme...I have a super hard-headed, arrogant, wants to be in control always, WH. I'm just venting here, don't worry...still going Plan B/dark and Exposure letter....just really really disliking this person he has become more and more. He even avoids his children, especially DD15...he avoids her more than the other because he knows or I should say, he feels how she feels about what he's doing.

One thing I do know, my girls are really bonding with me during this time. Even my little rebellious 14 year old has been very good lately, straight A's (well both really). I told her yesterday to do a chore, and she didn't even give me a fight like she normally does..she just did it. I noticed though that the 14 year old keeps questioning how I feel about her father. She wanted me to buy him something tonight at the store, not from her, but from me...and I said with no real emotion, just flat out.."no" and she looked at me and said "why, you don't like dad anymore?" I never know what to say anymore, so I just kind of ignored it and changed the subject.

That's all for tonight,,, just writing out some things on my mind. My stomach feels all tied in knots...talk to you all tomorrow. Still compiling my letters.

She doesn't know, does she? The 14 year old.

Tell her. Let her know what is going on. Let her know you need to protect yourself from his hurt.

Any communication regarding your WH personal items should be emailed to your WH by your IM.

Send the Plan B letter and let your IM contact your WH regarding his stuff that needs to be dealt with.

Unfortunately your love bank is very low, and that is understandable considering the amount of time your WH has been cake eating. This is destroying the love you have for your WH.

You have been like a cork bobbing in the sea with no direction. Look at it this way: you "think" in one hand and spit in the other, what will you get? You cannot read your WH's mind. Do not assume that you can. Do not let your fear define you. Do not underestimate the needs that you have been fulfilling for your WH or how much he will or will not miss that if you have no contact with him. You need a PLAN.

You have been given a lot of direction here, and have gotten the very best advice.

You are very close to Plan FU because your love bank is in the red because your WH has had his cake and eat it too for a very long time.

This is why people are suggesting that you give one last Plan A moment before Plan B.

Please follow Plan A and Plan B. I know it is scary, but MB principles really work. Plan A is not about relationship talk or pressuring your WH for all information. It is about showing your WH how GOOD you and the marriage can be (with no expectations) before you go to plan B. I know that the Harley's recommend a female BS Plan A no longer than a few weeks at most, and this cake eating has been going on for 2 years!

I think it would be in your best interest to schedule an appointment with the Harley's.

This way you will get the professional help you really need if you want to save your marriage. The Harley's have saved so many marriages and are worth the money that you will spend. I cannot tell you how much this will help you, only you can make that decision.

Investing $200 or so in counseling from MB is MUCH less expensive than a divorce.

Best wishes!

Yes, put all of the logistics in an addendum/separate letter.

Do you have your IM lined up? Has she read the IM Intermediary Training thread here? This is really important.

Oh yes she knows. Not sure if it was this forum or the other where I mentioned he has taken my 14 year old and and OW to the movies once. Actually it was supposed to be a father daughter movie (think it was Toy Story 3) and he didn't tell my daughter, and just picked up OW on the way to the movies.

The 2nd time daughter met OW was last summer, when we were fighting horribly over him and OW and he wanted to see his youngest daughter (cause older one would have nothing to do with him) and he took youngest over to OW's house to go swimming for the day.

I agree with you, all of you. I am definitely doing what I have discussed with you all. Where in the schedule of what's to come, should I implement the exposure emails...after Plan A and before Plan B? Or after Plan A and same day as Plan B?

And I think I know the answer to this one, but all of these Plans before Costa Rica trip? Costa Rica trip is March 22nd.

Also, WH sounds like he is undecided about Costa Rica trip because he knows it's the icing on the cake for all of us..me, his children, his family etc. I really think the silence that is going on between us right now, is his trying to make some decisions about his life and OW.