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She is still eating cake. If there is any contact at all, there is still an affair. She threw you a bone and now you are back right where you were before. Tell her to leave.
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she is cake eating and I suspect all is ready to resume affair as soon as her meal ticket... you .. have been suitably put back into your place. Pat you on the head and rub your tummy.
she will do this as long as you allow it to happen. Its a choice YOU will make.
stuck... women do not respect men who habitually give in to them.... you may be as PC as you like but it was true in my mums day .. heck it was true back in the days ancient Rome.... as it is today.
Her complaints about your exposure are complete rubbish and are intended to put you on the defensive because from past experience during the M she knows this puts her in the driving seat ... so she is doing it again... its very obvious as we read your posts she is very good at manipulating you. sadly you let her do it by inaction.
Stuck take this as an absolute truth ..from a former WW - NOT ONE THING YOU DID OR DID NOT DO CAUSED YOUR WW AFFAIR!!! She CHOSE to do this.. I did and so did EVERY person who had an affair.
NO ONE pretends that what is advised to do is easy.. if it was easy you would not be here would you? Its hard... its frightening at times... it hurts you in the place you feel most vulnerable... but its action you MUST take to have a chance at saving your M.
She is blowing smoke up your you know what on a lot of issues right now. She is busy re-fogging as you sit and watch.
Demand NC,,, demand it for work and outside of work. Stuck I had to give up.. I WANTED to give up ... the career I had which helped allow the circumstances for my affair. WHY? because it would help both my DH and MYSELF in recovering and rebuilding our M. COMPLETE change to another workplace... work industry...people I interacted with ...your wife has to do much the same. WHY does she have to play music with OM? to be blunt again .... that's just crap and you buy into it... and THAT Stuck is manipulation by your WW.
Stuck it may be again a simple question you don't want to face.. her career as it is now or ... YOU
Stuck I think you do have a chance of recovering your M but you NEED to follow the advice you are getting on demanding NC and the consequences - NOT threats - that will follow if NC is not followed... if the NC letter does not go out .... that may be that YOU seek to sell the home.... that YOU look at divorce or separation and get legal advice.
The alternative that you seem to be heading towards right now is that your WW will continue her affair... continue sponging off you .... and you will be willing for that to happen. You do not deserve that Stuck.
PLEASE PLEASE if you simply cannot bring yourself to do as advised to kill this affair go and see a lawyer and protect yourself as much as possible and go for separation and perhaps a divorce.
Do not think your wife will give a tinkers damn about you while in an affair ??? .. she will not. In an affair you are selfish... entitled... a real class A beach!!! She is NOT the woman you married right at this moment.
Its all up to you mostly Stuck... do as advised by the letter or don't ... the results are pretty clear.
remember this about respect ... ACTIONS speak louder than all the grand words in the world. Stuck, yeah what she said, double! 
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I get it...
The first step is really, firmly establishing no-contact. I sent her an e-mail this morning demanding NC from OM. Not in a selfish demand way... but as MB says, in a way that says it's simply too painful and any contact at all is reopening the wound for me, and if we have any hope of healing he needs to be out. Cell number blocked/changed, FB blocked, the band made clear that OM was not to be involved with them at any cost.
This made me very nervous, but now waiting and seeing what she says. We frequently e-mail in the morning, so this is a common way for us to communicate, since phone/in person isn't possible for most of the day.
If she agrees with NC now, the next step is transparency, which is another hill to climb. If she doesn't agree to complete NC, I guess I know where she stands, and I'll have to be ready to enforce the consequence.
Sometimes I feel like I'm faking being strong, while inside I'm a lost little kid. Now's one of those times.
BS: Me, 27
WS: Her, 24
EA: October
PA: 11/22/10
Moved out 12/3/10
Moved back in mid-January.
In tentative recovery. Is that the sun I see, breaking through the fog?
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I just talked to WW. She deleted his phone number and we're in the process of getting his number blocked. She deleted him and blocked him from facebook, and has agreed to go full-NC.
She had a facebook post up that referenced me yesterday, and OM put a snide comment up under it. Apparently this annoyed HER enough (let alone me) to make her realize how cruel it was, and understand why NC had to happen.
I believe she WANTS to try R, but is so unsure it would be successful that she's terrified of...everything. She's a scared individual.
This is a win, but I'm not naive enough to get my hopes up. I need to make sure she sticks with it, and step 2--transparency--is just as important. We are definitely still in the "surviving an affair" mode and not yet to "recovery" mode.
BS: Me, 27
WS: Her, 24
EA: October
PA: 11/22/10
Moved out 12/3/10
Moved back in mid-January.
In tentative recovery. Is that the sun I see, breaking through the fog?
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Stuck its a beginning. An opportunity to talk to the vets here and put together a PLAN for recovery.
No plan = FAILURE.
Can you try to get a session with one of the Harley's? Yes not cheap but I am sure some vets here will be able to confirm that divorce was so so much more expensive. If it has to happen then ok you do it... but don't fail because of few $$
DO NOT settle for words... demand action and CHECK that what is said is done.
Think about what you want in a M. What boundaries should be in place for both of you. There some which are NOT negotiable like no contact with OM for LIFE!!! and so on. Write them down for later discussions with your wife ... hopefully a starter FORMER WW now. We'll see.
Promises are easy to make... harder to keep. A healthy skepticism is ok for now.
what about the band? I would think the band has no interest in excluding OM ... again CHECK what is happening against what is said.
Its the old ok I am willing to trust a bit BUT verify process right now. You just quietly go check what is going on.
do not just accept her back without conditions... talk to the vets here asap.
Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.
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Thanks Aussie.
You're right that divorce is much more expensive than the cost of a session with the Harleys... I'll see if I can get WW on board with that. Do the vets here really think 1 session with the Harleys will be that productive? Seems like the first half of the session would be simply explaining the situation.
Most of the past 2 days has been spent dealing with a death in her family. We haven't crafted the NC letter yet, but there hasn't been any contact for several days... we agreed today would be the day to make NC official. She even said yesterday night that she'd already basically stopped thinking about him, and was pretty surprised how quickly her feelings were changing. That doesn't surprise me, however...she's always thought with her heart and moved FAST from one thing to the next.
She's making an appointment with a counselor today. She admitted yesterday she's legitimately depressed (ya think?!?) and wants help. We're going to make a MC appointment shortly also, within the next week... but we both want her to talk about her feelings with another counselor before MC, so she doesn't end up monopolizing the MC with it.
No plan for transparency yet--I'm hoping a MC will help broach that subject and make her see the value in it, without making her feel controlled or smothered. I've said that trust needs to be earned back, not assumed, so she knows SOMETHING will have to happen. At this point, hearing things from 3rd parties is more effective than her hearing things from me... if I say I need transparency, it sounds like a selfish demand to her. If someone else says it, she thinks "Ok, maybe it really IS important."
That's kind of a problem in itself, but 1 thing at a time.
I haven't decided how to deal with the band yet. They really do like me, and associate with OM so rarely it wouldn't be a problem for me to talk to them about cutting OM off. In addition... they're older, and have dealt with similar situations themselves, so they understand. I'm more concerned about it sucking more points out of the love bank, the way exposure did. Any mention of exposure to her family still sucks points out of the bank. I think I'll wait and ponder the band situation for now.
I am going to make a list of boundaries, and the way I want my M to be post-affair. This will be a good exercise for me.
Here's hoping WW is a future FWW in the making. I'm still not getting ahead of myself though.
BS: Me, 27
WS: Her, 24
EA: October
PA: 11/22/10
Moved out 12/3/10
Moved back in mid-January.
In tentative recovery. Is that the sun I see, breaking through the fog?
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I haven't decided how to deal with the band yet. They really do like me, and associate with OM so rarely it wouldn't be a problem for me to talk to them about cutting OM off. In addition... they're older, and have dealt with similar situations themselves, so they understand. I'm more concerned about it sucking more points out of the love bank, the way exposure did. Any mention of exposure to her family still sucks points out of the bank. I think I'll wait and ponder the band situation for now. Just so I understand: your WW is writing a NC letter, but may still be in contact with OM through working with the band?
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Hey I just caught up on your thread, glad to see some progress - you seemed to disappear there for a while - or maybe I am reading too many threads. Maybe I need more of a challenging personal life LOL
If you are going into recovery its no picnic. I can tell you that, its hard work.
Make sure she keeps up her end of the bargain thats for sure.
Finally, wow was I ever enthusiastic about exposure on your thread or what! I must have been high on adrenaline after doing it...!
FBH,Dad
No half measures, in anything.
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Just so I understand: your WW is writing a NC letter, but may still be in contact with OM through working with the band? No! Incorrect. I should have clarified. There will be no contact. But if I don't bring up the situation to the band and specifically ask for a lifelong ban, there is a SLIGHT risk one of them could raise the concept of working with him at a later date. The good news is WW has no say in scheduling/creating shows, so any risk of contact starts with the other bandmates and not her, and I'd catch wind of it before any contact happened. Either way, I guess I just answered my own question. I gotta talk to the band and make sure they know specifically what needs to happen. @Reynolds--thanks for being involved! You sure were enthusiastic about exposure. And I can firmly say, no matter how angry it made me WW, without exposure my situation would be MUCH worse. I did disappear for a while, but I'm back now. In some ways, I was ashamed I wasn't doing a better job of saving my marriage and didn't want to reveal my inadequacy to the board. I'm over that now... what I am is what I am, and I will do my best to save my marriage.
Last edited by StuckWaiting; 01/27/11 03:24 PM. Reason: To clarify quotes.
BS: Me, 27
WS: Her, 24
EA: October
PA: 11/22/10
Moved out 12/3/10
Moved back in mid-January.
In tentative recovery. Is that the sun I see, breaking through the fog?
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Stuck everyone who has commented on the forum who has spoken to one of the Harley's said they did more in one session than many MC's did in 4 or 5. As I understand the process they go straight to the issues at hand ... none of the when you were 12 years old and so on and so forth. perhaps others can comment on their experiences for you. Do I think it is useful? YES YES It took some time for me to go to counseling and it made it so much harder to get to the meaty issues. YOUR WIFE needs what Harley's can give her... so may you. OK set a date for the NC letter... a few days for family grieving is ok ... DON'T let it go..very important ... there are NC templates here you can use..ask people for them. She writes it perhaps based on some examples you get from here..no gushy stuff from her to OM .... YOU approve it and YOU send it off... or she can go with you to post it. DON'T rely on her to send it by herself .... if she wants to do that ...red flag  she probably wouldn't send it. MC and individual counseling are entirely different animals that's why I suggest Harleys for MC they are the adultery experts ...most MC dont know how to save marriages with cheating in it. Most seem to want to prepare you for D. But your choice how you do this. Read the article about choosing a good MC on this site here How to choose a good MC Stuck DO NOT try to educate your wife .. it comes across as lecturing and is a big LB for her ... and right now anything you say anyway is treated as BS .. no not "betrayed spouse" the other stuff!! or at the best with suspicion... that's also why a GOOD MC is so important. From personal experience when our MC said something it really hit me... not so much when family said the same. The band issue .... very simple Stuck ... you want the affair to continue or flare up again??? then let the issue go "for now". I think from your info that you could talk to the band and if its just not possible to exclude OM then it IS going to be choice for your WW to make ... YOU or the BAND. That is a consequence of her actions it is not your fault... its her's. NC for life means BLOODY NC FOR LIFE!!!! Do not let her talk you into anything else. Stuck you have a tendency to excuse and make allowances for your WW ... this is dangerous for your M. It comes from a habit of avoiding conflict with her. This is another reason for a GOOD MC. A GOOD MC will show you how to disagree and argue fairly ... its not easy I can tell you ... I had to learn and so do you and your WW. The other danger is that you will "settle" for crumbs from your WW ... don't you dare!! Look how quickly some positive signs from your WW happened when you insisted on a few respectful boundaries!!! Ok so not all was achieved.. but remember it was skirmish in a war.. you aim to win the war. you have a great opportunity right now ... GET a Harley involved now... set it up and talk to your WW saying its the MC you wish to use as they have fantastic results ... if your ww is serious she will be ok with any good MC so why not the Harleys???
Last edited by aussieswife; 01/27/11 02:20 PM. Reason: can't spell
Life may feel as if you are constantly getting kicked on a daily basis, living is about picking yourself up each day and going on and on and on regardless.
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Seems like the first half of the session would be simply explaining the situation. In our experience, my H emailed a letter to Steve Harley before speaking on the phone to him to fill him in on our issues.
FBW in recovery
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BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING  Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2469318&page=1I don't think you are ready to be on the recovery board yet, IMVHO. You are NO WHERE NEAR recovery yet. There are still MANY red flags in your sitch than just the fact that your WW will not give up FB and would NEVER give up her music career. You also mentioned on your "recovery" thread that she went out on a girl's night out on Saturday and although you were against it, you didn't stop her from going. How do you KNOW she didn't contact OM? How do you KNOW that she was where she said she was? How do you KNOW there isn't a NEW OM?
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2469318&page=1I don't think you are ready to be on the recovery board yet, IMVHO. You are NO WHERE NEAR recovery yet. There are still MANY red flags in your sitch than just the fact that your WW will not give up FB and would NEVER give up her music career. You also mentioned on your "recovery" thread that she went out on a girl's night out on Saturday and although you were against it, you didn't stop her from going. How do you KNOW she didn't contact OM? How do you KNOW that she was where she said she was? How do you KNOW there isn't a NEW OM? I suppose you're right, in many ways. I'm frankly exhausted right now--I've spent years trying to defend her music career. The A did not happen because of her music career, it happened because she was selfish, entitled, with too much time on her hands and terrible/nonexistent boundaries. No, I didn't stop her from going out on Saturday. I checked all our phone records, she hasn't had any contact with OM for weeks, I am fairly certain of this and 99% certain she did not meet up with him Saturday. But I guess I can't "know." Nor can I "know" if she's with another OM (but that would blow my mind beyond belief). But how can I ever "know"? Unless I put a GPS in her car (and even then I won't "know" because they never met at his house, they met elsewhere). She could say she's just at the store, or the mall, or whatever parking lot they're in. I don't even want to think about these details now, honestly. Despite whatever transparency I implement, she could STILL find ways to sneak around if she REALLY wanted. I'm pretty exhausted. And now I'm kind of upset thinking about the affair, too. Sigh. She's meeting me after work so we can go out--I'm going to try to get my head in a better place so I can plan A some more, instead of belaboring her about the affair.
BS: Me, 27
WS: Her, 24
EA: October
PA: 11/22/10
Moved out 12/3/10
Moved back in mid-January.
In tentative recovery. Is that the sun I see, breaking through the fog?
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Stuck,
As the betrayed spouse, we have to take responsibility for our own boundary enforcement. What are your boundaries right now? It doesn't sound like you have any...
You needed to set the bar for what you expected from your W in this R once the A ended.
If she won't do what is in the Requirements for Recovery, my recommendation always is to call the coaching center to see if they can get the WS on board. If that too fails, you really need to look at Plan B. You can't just keep Plan A'ing indefinitely...
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This was posted to Andy. I really think this applies to your sitch, Stuck. ...the best Valentines gift you can give to your wife is standing up for your marriage and setting conditions. Rewarding a spouse for marriage wrecking, destructive behavior is what has led you to this terrible place. Your wife has behaved destructively - with your endorsement. For example, her going out like a single woman and carrying on opposite sex friendships has been a disaster to your marriage.
So, instead of giving her roses, how about demonstrating that you REALLY CARE for your marriage by setting some conditions that are designed to protect your marrriage from a repeat and ensure it recovers? That would be the most caring and loving act you could give her.
SEt her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you are no longer willing to live like this. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:
1. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle
2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc
3. no more opposite sex friendships
4. complete honesty about her affair
5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage
Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on your her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.
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Susie, this is very very good advice. I'm going to think about how to present this to her. It does feel like every conversation we have about our relationship is withdrawing LB$ but... this needs to happen. I am very sad this morning, and part of it is thinking about the lack of consequences for her A, and the sheer cruelty of it all, and her reluctance to meet key conditions for recovery. I clearly can't live like this for an extended period of time.
Rough morning. Thanks for the post.
BS: Me, 27
WS: Her, 24
EA: October
PA: 11/22/10
Moved out 12/3/10
Moved back in mid-January.
In tentative recovery. Is that the sun I see, breaking through the fog?
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Its tough Stuck when they say WWs can't be brought to heel like WHs. Its more sales and plan A, and the ladies are lucky cause they get to kick the crap out of WHs...lucky being a relative term here I guess.
Hang in there.
FBH,Dad
No half measures, in anything.
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So... I'm going to provide a fuller update in a few minutes, but first I want some opinions. I'm really pretty amped up and anxious right now.
WW has gone NC with OM for the past few weeks--we've done everything but changed phone numbers and e-mail addresses. So, OM sends her an e-mail that says "Happy Valentine's Day baby, I miss you, do you miss me?" over the weekend. She has been transparent, and I do not believe she did anything to prompt this.
Understanding that my own failure to change e-mail address/phone numbers yet led to this, I finally called up OM and yelled at him. Told him to stay the F away from my wife, that if he EVER contacts her again things will get more ugly than he can imagine. And hung up.
Now, of course, he's calling me incessantly and sending me all kinds of texts telling me threats "aren't cool" and lying about how he e-mailed her and such.
So 1. obviously I'm changing e-mail addresses and phone numbers now.
And 2. Was this the right thing to do? I'll admit I feel better, like I stood up for my family, but I'm also having doubts from the babble this guy is texting me incessantly.
BS: Me, 27
WS: Her, 24
EA: October
PA: 11/22/10
Moved out 12/3/10
Moved back in mid-January.
In tentative recovery. Is that the sun I see, breaking through the fog?
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Yes, Stuck, I think you did just fine by calling out that POSOM. I'm sure it was a bit of a downer for him to be looking for his fix, and her husband responds! Nice. Now get those emails and cell phone numbers changed!!! Chop-chop! Today! What were you thinking, Stuck?? 
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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