The only real reason why MB principles don't work on some people is because they are the ones wayward and cheating....

Good luck my friend.

We have lost chris, he is not the same guy who came here for help, his waywardness stole him.

God I wish i could go back in time and shake the heck outta myself for making this very same mistake.

Reynolds, Look at the way that people have treated ACTIVE waywards on this board and tell me WHY we need to be any different with Chris. He is a wayward and treating him with kid gloves is NOT going to help him, or those children.

Will he run? That's up to him. But I can guarantee, if and when he realizes that he IS wayward and he would like some help, he will know where he can come.

Reynolds, the very worst thing that we could do is enable his fogged out thinking in order to cajole him to stay.

@Reynolds - think of Waywards as addicts. They behave in remarkably similar (if not indistinguishable) ways. Cajoling, or "going soft" on an addict will only hurt them, because in their disease they will mistake your softness for moral wiggle room in their life. Addicts and Waywards need hard, tough, absolutes.

If they're not ready for that reality, then they will not recover until they change. Dr. Harley is quite clear on this (I'm sure MelodyLane has the passage on speed-dial)

If you guys can tell me what I'm doing that I haven't already admitted I will admit to being a wayward. I've admitted to having an emotional need of COMMUNICATION met by another female. I didn't deny it. I did however state that the conversations were laid out for my wife in full details and that I am not getting close to her. She came to ME for relationship advice, not the other way around. I have provided her the best insight I have and even encouraged her to seek legal help. Ultimately it's her choice to do so. We're going on over 4 days now of no communication and it's not bothering me at all. Why? Because I don't care.

The difference in conversation now versus when I first came here are different because I'm being told I'm going to cheat when I'm taking every precaution to ensure nothing happens: Full disclosure to my wife, boundaries, etc. My wife is accepting and enforcing these boundaries too. You guys are throwing me under the bus for something my wife is okay with. So why do you think I'm going to give in on something that is creating no issues between my wife and I? She has friends and so do I. As long as we respect the boundaries set forth there are no issues.

I just called out my wife for texting someone she said she wasn't going to text. She apologized and we moved on. I enforced the barrier and that was it. She does the same thing to me.

And what makes you say that a brief 2 month relationship with this girl while my wife and I were separated caused us issues? Was it the part where I told you I dumped her in a split second when my wife wanted me back? Was it the part where I dumped her in a split second to be closer to my child? Was it the part where I dumped her in a split second to be there, provide, support, and nourish my wife and child unlike my father did for me?

Once again, show me how I am wayward and I will admit it.

Chris,
I think a lot of people think of it won't happen to me, I have control of the situation, this is exactly how my husband had his affair one of his employees called him for advice on her marital problems, he became her sounding board because they worked together and he gave her legal advice and support, of course she cried and he felt sorry for her, and that led to them becoming to close sharing to much as friends.......I know you think it won't happen........but why take the chance having friendships like that, especially if you are getting something out of it, a little more each time and before you know it is something it never has been........the vets are worried that you can't handle it, affairs happen slowly and are slowly justified......
This is just to dangerous for your marriage, no contact with this woman is a must..........why take the chance.
The vets are just trying to be tough on you to stop you from making a mistake you will regret, there are lot of people here regretting a lot of things. don't be one of them

I agree with you that people are just trying to give me good advice and prevent me from making a mistake; however, the only prosecution is an assumption--people telling me it's going to happen because it happened to them or because they did it themselves. That's fine--I appreciate the honesty, but I'm not you and I'm not your wayward spouses. I have respected the boundaries set forth by my wife and me, and I have done it for 12 years. If I was going to cheat I would have done it 3 years ago when my wife was telling every tom, [censored], and harry that she wanted to screw them. But I didn't.

I came here and admitted this was happening and that I was preventing it from progressing because I wanted the information to be out there for you guys who were helping me, not because I wanted to spend 10 days defending myself. If no one can trust that I am not going to let this go any further than casual conversation then we are just going to have to agree to disagree because we will never see eye to eye.

Well I believe you and I do think that not everyone cheats and can respect the boundaries in a marriage, I know that because I am one of them, I have had offers in the past myself and have been in situations where it could have happened....but I know myself best just like you, that is just something that I couldn't do.........
You are young still so the mistake we all have made here to trust to much especially if you have been married a long time like me, I should have kept a closer eye on the phone calls, the evenings away from home, his changes towards me.
But I foolishly trusted him thinking he could never cross those lines. I would suggest you stay on this site and learn all you can about having a great marriage and how to communicate and show affection and love.........being pro active is a good thing..........I wish I had done that.........I think in any relationship we get caught up in our own world and forget we still have a job to do, to feed the marriage and relationship........it can't ever be taken for granted........

That's my intentions: To get great advice on how to show my wife the affection and love she deserves, to communicate with her better, and to avoid love busters. I have gotten a lot of great advice here and a lot of it is being put to use in the recovery of my marriage. For that I am thankful

FTR, It is not just the EN of conversation being met. Your OW is a Damsel In Distress. She is also meeting your EN of admiration, making you feel like the Hero especially in comparison to her abusive, mean, crappy H. My FWH's OW was a damsel in distress. I almost felt sorry for her when my H explained her problems with her abusive fiance to me, but when I got here, I was sickened to realize this is a VERY common way that men slip into affairs here...(they don't even realize this is the reason why it feels so good to be the shoulder to cry on for the OW!)


There are no precautions being taken here. You have already allowed the OW to meet intimate emotional needs, make big LB$ deposits and have crossed into fogland, evidenced by the fact that you are UNWILLING to give the OW up.


Chris, do you know how utterly ridiculous this sounds? Your W is wayward herself, has a history of violating boundaries and knows nothing about extraordinary precautions. Would your defend driving drunk by telling us an alcoholic has advised you that this is OK?

Susie I appreciate the advice but I've already said I'm done defending myself. We will all agree to disagree and leave it be.

I cannot help you save your marriage if you refuses to end your own affair, or enact safeguards to protect your marriage and depend on your'will'.

You'll never be able to get the marriage you want if you persist in this kind of behavior. What you are doing is no different than what your wife is doing, and it is hurtful and destructive, and will make recovery all the harder.

Foglation = I refuse to give up the OW so stop bringing it up.

That's an affair.


That doesn't make it not an affair. That just means you are living in an open marriage.

You have POJAed bad boundaries for your marriage. It doesn't matter how much the two of you agree enthusiastically if what you agree to is a bad idea. You can enthusiastically agree to pot use, drunkenness, or swinging, and that still doesn't make it a good idea for your marriage!

What you have is an affair without dishonesty and independent behavior. That's less common, but not unheard of. That's what swingers do. And they all say just what you are saying: as long as we stick to these boundaries, everything is okay.

I think the vets are worried about the fact that he is in an emotional affair, now.

Exactly!

If you really don't care, why keep the relationship?


You are not taking every precaution. You are still in contact with the woman whom you allowed to meet an intimate emotional need.

Ditto what Susie, Markos, PM and Prisca have said.

Chris, you make your own choices, but until you END YOUR AFFAIR, I am unable to help you.

Call the Harleys or even write to the radio show and ask for advice.

I hope for the best but I have my own personal boundary to enforce. I will not help someone stay wayward.