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NewCreation i have been reading this thread all along. I'm not sure if i have an answer from you 3 1/2 yrs out from my dday and my xh moving out, but it has got my interest what you are offering to the BW in your case.
My xh still lives with his OW the last 3 1/2 years they have been together for 4 years now and my 3 year old daughter sees her weekly. There is a lot to my sitch that would be to much to write here right now.
My xh wrote a letter to me once before and i acknowledged it but i did not respond to it. I think at this time if i saw senserity in another person as i do in you I would like that remorse to be shown. As it is the last i had talked to OW she still thinks she did nothing wrong as she wasn't the one married. So i'm not sure if my OW will ever get it, but again there is more my reason for that.
I will say that you did help with the fact that the OW who "won" so to speak can/may see their error. I see alot of FWS on here but they are buy in large are recovering with their spouses. I don't know if i am making sense but you did help me.
Truth can stand on it's own two feet....A lie needs support....FRM
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Wow MB, I am supporting her, and my heart goes out to her, are you serious that you think I am bashing her?
Please re-read my posts and pull up quotes and show me how you came to the conclusion I was bashing her for being here. Oh, ugh, Constant. I read too fast and misunderstood you. I am so sorry. Forgive me, please?  No problem MB 
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I find it troubling that people want this woman to give up her marriage now because of how it started, when many marriages have started when people have unprotected sex out of wedlock, and then go to God as they realize they have to grow up when pregnancy results. But I can understand she put a target on her back coming here. I wonder how many Christians who are here stepped over the line and had sex before marriage, and then realized it was wrong, and went to God for forgivness, and are still encouraged to have a full life and marriage, while getting thier head out of their butt. I wonder if someone like that would be helped, or turned away...
--Snip--
...I think it took a lot of guts coming here, and I hope your post helps others to understand and avoid the foolishness of affairs, and the fallout that you now are experiencing. Seek what God leads you, and don't be dis-heartened. Stick around and read, learn how to help others, and know that is what God would want. Newcreation, did my comments make you feel like I am against you in your present marriage? Because I am for restoration, just to be clear, even though others might not agree with that. I thought the comments quoted above made that clear. But some have misread them, or I worded them wrong.
CP ~
I've read EVERY post... When I read your initial post, I understood EXACTLY what you were saying...
(I heard love, mercy, grace, compassion in your post.)
AND, I agreed with everything you expressed!
Then, I saw some posters who somehow misinterpreted your post!
I decided that they must have either skim-read it without fully understanding it, because I knew if they HAD understood your post, they would not have said what they said!!!
Anyway, I'm just now reading your re-post and thought I'd put my 2-cents worth in...
You done good!
If I don't see you BEFORE ~ Well, I'll see you when we get there! 
"Now is the time for all good MB Veterans to come to the aid of their MB Rookies!"
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If I don't see you BEFORE ~ Well, I'll see you when we get there! Well its all over now, my good friend MB corrected her misreading and apoligized. ((MB)). All I was afraid of really was this woman misunderstanding also, and because I am so longwinded and sometimes seem to beat around the bush making a point,(my kids hate this, and would rather have something taken away when they were young, than to make them think, and listen and reason with me when they had to listen to my lectures, Lol, sorry I knew that game.)...well anyways.. because I am so long winded in my posts, and was straddling the fence for the betrayed who are newly experiencing pain, and seeking retribution emotionally of course. I thought it was my fault anyways. I take that responsibility, its up to me to be clear. This place above all is a healing site, and I look at it as a way God, truth and light can heal all. We have all fallen short. NewC knows this also, and I will support her learning and teaching, now that she has learned why those rules God gives us about life and marriage are so important. May her children never have to know her pain and guilt, or be part of how people spread it to others. This was a problem with my late wife, when she could not show how sin had messed up her life, and she thought they should see her sacrifice for them, and to avoid it for them is the best gift they will never know. What she had given up, was crap, and for them to experiance that was the legacy her Mom left her. Thank you for your kind words, it brought a tear to my eye. I'll see you at that great table on the other side.
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Well its all over now, my good friend MB corrected her misreading and apoligized. ((MB)). All I was afraid of really was this woman misunderstanding also, and because I am so longwinded and sometimes seem to beat around the bush making a point,(my kids hate this, and would rather have something taken away when they were young, than to make them think, and listen and reason with me when they had to listen to my lectures, Lol, sorry I knew that game.)...well anyways.. because I am so long winded in my posts, and was straddling the fence for the betrayed who are newly experiencing pain, and seeking retribution emotionally of course. I thought it was my fault anyways. I take that responsibility, its up to me to be clear. Love ya, Constant! Hugs back to you! (Heck, big group hug for all of us!  ) You're not allowed to take the rap for my fast-reading of your post, I'm not gonna let you! We've all fallen short. Some of us know it, others...it takes them longer. NC, you get it. Your postings struck a chord with me, and that doesn't happen too often, that I feel compassion for someone who could be the OW in my sitch. I feel protective of you because I think your articulate postings contain a huge lesson of insight that we would be foolish to dismiss. "Hate the sin. Love the sinner." I try to remember that but I don't always do very well with it, sigh. In this case, it's not so hard.
Last edited by maritalbliss; 02/19/11 06:30 PM.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Wow. What an amazing group of people here! I am overwhelmed by the grace I have been shown in this of all places.
It does occur to me that it is sad that all these great people and all this amazing information doesn't usually come to anyone's attention until after they have been affected by adultery.
Happy weekend everyone!
NC
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NC, have you told your children yet?
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING  Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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I am a BS. WXH has been living with OW for 4 years. In Canada, common law offers the same privaledges and responsibilities as marriage, so consider their relationship to be an affairage. It's been a long time now and I've moved on with my life. I haven't seen or spoken to him in nearly a year and I haven't seen her in much longer than that. I have been rather successful in all aspects and I am very satisfied with my life right now. Consider me to be similar to your H's BW.
The very LAST thing I would want is for OW to appologize to me. As far as I'm concerned, OW is the lowest form of life around. She stole my H and tried to steal my house, my son, my friends - basically my life. She also cheated on her own husband and destroyed her little daughter's family. As far as I'm concerned, she has no redeaming features whatsoever. If she had the nerve to approach me by any means - in person, email, fax, text message, third party - whatever - I would assume her selfishness and sense of entitlement has led her to believe she somehow deserves my forgiveness, too. I would actually feel like she's trying to steal something else from me because, you know, that's what she does.
I don't believe I'll feel differently in 10 years or 20 years. Don't think I'm letting this eat me to the bone or anything. I actually don't think of her much at all if ever. I used to wonder if I'd swerve to miss her if she walked out in front of my car. Now I'm pretty sure I would, but that's because it would p*ss me off if she scratched the paint. ITA with Tabby, POSOW coveted my life and subsequently stole it. She also betrayed her H and destroyed her 3 small kids lives. An apology now, 10 years, or 20 years can never erase the hurt and devastation caused by all of this. NC, I do understand you want to "put things right" but the truth is YOU CAN NEVER MAKE THINGS RIGHT. Also here is a little FYI, my parents divorced when I was in my early 20's due to an A. My dad married his AP and they have been married 20+ years now. I love my father and will spend time with him and my "stepmother"; BUT I WILL NEVER HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR EITHER OF THEM - EVER. So please do not attempt to counsel other marriages, it just sends the wrong message. JMHO
Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10
"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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NC,
The only apology I know of that was ever wasted was an insincere one.
Your apology will not be wasted.
I also want you to know that the Apology Police are not coming. There are no deadlines that you have missed, and you won't be put in Apology Jail if your words are selected imperfectly.
Keep these ideas in mind when you write the letter:
1. In your first sentence, make sure you apologize. Do NOT say, "I WANT to apologize." Say, "I APOLOGIZE." By saying "I want" you place distance between you and the apology. Don't do that.
2. Make sure you apologize at least three times in the letter. Be specific about the apology: you apologize for the pain you caused, for breaking up the family, for failure to take the blame that you should have owned at the time, for viewing her as a non-person and an enemy who stood in the way of your selfish desires; whatever you are apologizing for, be specific.
3. Be careful with use of the words "but" or "however" or "although" in the letter. Make sure that these are NOT used to justify your behavior, or to place an excuse for yourself or your husband after one of these words, or to place blame on her either.
4. Do not say anything about your own pain. It minimizes hers, and the letter is not about your pain.
5. Do tell her that you recognize the destruction you caused.
6. Do tell her that you have remorse and regret. Tell her how this has caused you to change the way you see her, and that you have wanted to apologize for a long time, but did not feel worthy enough to do it, and that you know it does not even begin to restore any of the damage you have caused.
7. Do not ask her for anything. Not even forgiveness. You could tell her that you hope that someday when enough of her pain has moved into the past, that she might find it in her heart to consider a move toward forgiving you, and you understand that this day may never come, as healing may take her a very long time.
8. Do close the letter with a final word of apology, and a committment to her that you will not sin in this way again - against ANYONE. It is the lesson learned and the sincerity of this that can make the apology sincere.
Good luck.
And, for the record, keep a copy for yourself. So that down the line, you can show your kids, and her kids, that people who do the wrong thing can and should own it. And attempt a proper apology and restitution - even if it is "too late", even if it is hard, even if other people think it's for the "wrong reason", even if the color of the moon is in purple retrograde while the grass is blowing from the prairies.................you know.
Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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@ SB ~
A perfectly worded post!
I agree with you...
NC's apology is simply a first step in her process of making amends with BW...
Unless BW is led to receive NC's apology, it may be the only step!
I am hoping that BW, as a Sister in Christ, will allow God to give her a measure of peace that surpasses all comprehension through NC's gesture.
In my understanding of seeking forgiveness from someone you have sinned against,it is more important for the person who is sinned against to be given the opportunity to share with the perpetrator how the sin against "them" made them "feel" than is is for the perpetrator to receive the words, "Yes, I forgive you."
Unless the perpetrator is willing to "hear" the victim's sadness, pain & ANGER regarding an offense, to me, the person seeking the apology/forgiveness is simply attempting to assuage their own guilty conscience!
If BW considers forgiving NC, I hope she will also be given the opportunity to vent ALL of her feelings of bitterness!
BW deserves to address the perpetrator (NC).
BW's xWH should follow NC's lead in this process.
However, it sounds like he is definitely NOT in the same place spiritually!
All NC can do is "her part"... She is NOT responsible/accountable for xWH's choices to have an adulterous relationship with her! (AND/OR his "new" AP!)
Ultimately, xWH is going to stand before Christ "ALONE" and give an account of his life!
We, God's precious children, will be watching from the sidelines!
That is not to say that the rest of us will not have to stand before Christ to give an accounting...
We will...
The question of which "judgment" each person must give an accounting before the throne of Christ is determined by each individual...
1. The Bema Seat of Christ
or
2. The Great White Throne Judgment
"Now is the time for all good MB Veterans to come to the aid of their MB Rookies!"
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@ NC ~
The processes of seeking forgiveness / extending forgiveness are not easy.
Executing these processes causes one to demonstrate much "humility".
First things first:
Examine your "MOTIVES"!
They are either:
1. PURE
or
2. CORRUPT
Ask our Dad to examine your heart... If He says, "Go!"
Well, then,
" G O " ! ! ! ! ! ! !
When I offend (SIN) against someone, I must:
1. Apologize.
2. Ask for forgiveness.
3. Ask the person I sinned against to tell me how my sin made them feel.
When someone sins against me, apologizes and asks me for forgiveness, I must accept their apology and extend forgiveness IF I choose to "be" the person Jesus teaches me to be! Jesus expects me to say:
1. "Thank you for apologizing to me."
2. "Yes, I forgive you."
3. "When you _____________________, it made me feel ____________________... (Fill in the blank ie. sad, mad, frustrated, disappointed, guilty, frightened, hurt, lonely, surprised, disgusted, exasperated, idiotic, jealous, stupid, etc...)
Why is it so difficult to allow someone to tell us how our sin against them made them REALLY FEEL!!!
I think it is because we do NOT like having to suffer the consequences of our poor choices!
I know firsthand that when I encourage someone to "vent" their feelings toward me when I have sinned against them, it helps :
T H E M!!!!
And, helping T H E M is exactly what I should want!
My desire is for the offended person to have a measure of restoration / reconciliation with themselves AND with God!
Even if it means that I must humble myself to complete vulnerability!
Using "two" ears & "one" mouth proportionately is key!
Actually, I have found it better to pull out the duct tape! That really works better...
BW has had years to feel bitterness toward you and xWH to build up! I am truly sad for her...
She deserves an opportunity with you to get that  out!
It doesn't have to be in person... Maybe she will reply to your letter in kind...
I hope so!
You are on the right track, girlfriend in Christ!
God Bless ~
Last edited by LoveIsaChoice4Me; 02/20/11 07:14 PM.
"Now is the time for all good MB Veterans to come to the aid of their MB Rookies!"
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SchoolBus and LoveIsAChoice, you have given good advice IMO.
SB is a lauguage expert of some kind, im sorry, I don't know what the title is of her talent, but it is obviuos in the posts.
I like what was said by both.
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I agree, excellent posts!
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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I think it says quite a bit about this site, and Dr.H., that many have come here, and without advocating the adultry, have helped NC in her own personal recovery.
It speaks volumes about how hating adultry, does not mean hating people. How the tools will work, if they are submitted to. How each persons individual emotional maturity, is the first goal we seek when posting.
I hope this thread helps the BSs out there who are lost and hurt, understand in the end, it is not hate of the WS we preach here, but there actions.
This attitude, is the one that will build trust in restoration, and therefore with the vets here. Raining down fire and brimstone on a repentant, or in the process, repentant individual, must be balanced with guidance.
God, or whatever you call truth and light, freedom and justice, reality and accountability, will allways be served, regaurdless of whether people run away and hide or not.
He also gives a way out of Sin, you will never be tested beyond that point that there is not a way out.
We as humans, and accoutable to God, must be brave enough to tell the truth, but yet we are limited in our perspective.
1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
"Hate the sin, not the sinner" as another poster so aptley stated above, is the reason the vets here post, and lay out the ugly truth, and 2x4 both the betrayed and the betrayer. The wise ones show a light and a path back, they know nobody wants thier marriage condemed to a life of sadness and sorrow, and they will not follow a path of slavery. God doesn't want that either.
Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Galatians 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Romans 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
This whole verse really talks a lot about the Law. But this post is long enough, so I'll end with.
Romans 7:21-25
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
So to me that means we will never be or act perfect, and are still subject to our human frame, with all the mistakes, bad judgements, and selfish pursuits of what we call happiness.
Thank God for the death of his Son, the only perfect one in all areas of the law, that died because of our perceptions of what was right.
This has meant peace for me, and even more encouragement to follow God, trusting His wisdom over my experience.
That is what I see MB to represent also, that truth will set you free.
Me 56 Former BS Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years. 4 children DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4 Me former BS DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr DSs 26 and 23 Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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3. Be careful with use of the words "but" or "however" or "although" in the letter. Make sure that these are NOT used to justify your behavior, or to place an excuse for yourself or your husband after one of these words, or to place blame on her either. Any statement you begin which leads to one of these words should be thoroughly thought out before it is committed to writing. Most things that would be modified with these words lack sincerity.
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Last edited by LoveIsaChoice4Me; 02/21/11 08:25 AM.
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Just a little question though.....Dont blast me but....How can she apologize for something that she is still doing....I would like an apology from my OW if she stopped screwing my WH...but how can she apologize if she is still perpetrating...." I am so sorry for helping to destroy yours and your childs family...I am still with your WH...but I am sorry for the pain I caused and continue to cause you an your family. I am gonna continue to do it but...I am sorry." This is what I would hear....
I am just confused how it will be a true apology...
Last edited by stillhere8126; 02/21/11 10:50 AM. Reason: clarify
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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Go to confession, make your peace with God....But I truly feel apologizing to exBW just makes no sense at this point...
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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@ NC ~
The processes of seeking forgiveness / extending forgiveness are not easy.
Executing these processes causes one to demonstrate much "humility".
First things first:
Examine your "MOTIVES"!
They are either:
1. PURE
or
2. CORRUPT
Ask our Dad to examine your heart... If He says, "Go!"
Well, then,
" G O " ! ! ! ! ! ! !
When I offend (SIN) against someone, I must:
1. Apologize.
2. Ask for forgiveness.
3. Ask the person I sinned against to tell me how my sin made them feel.
When someone sins against me, apologizes and asks me for forgiveness, I must accept their apology and extend forgiveness IF I choose to "be" the person Jesus teaches me to be! Jesus expects me to say:
1. "Thank you for apologizing to me."
2. "Yes, I forgive you."
3. "When you _____________________, it made me feel ____________________... (Fill in the blank ie. sad, mad, frustrated, disappointed, guilty, frightened, hurt, lonely, surprised, disgusted, exasperated, idiotic, jealous, stupid, etc...)
Why is it so difficult to allow someone to tell us how our sin against them made them REALLY FEEL!!!
I think it is because we do NOT like having to suffer the consequences of our poor choices!
I know firsthand that when I encourage someone to "vent" their feelings toward me when I have sinned against them, it helps :
T H E M!!!!
And, helping T H E M is exactly what I should want!
My desire is for the offended person to have a measure of restoration / reconciliation with themselves AND with God!
Even if it means that I must humble myself to complete vulnerability!
Using "two" ears & "one" mouth proportionately is key!
Actually, I have found it better to pull out the duct tape! That really works better...
BW has had years to feel bitterness toward you and xWH to build up! I am truly sad for her...
She deserves an opportunity with you to get that out!
It doesn't have to be in person... Maybe she will reply to your letter in kind...
I hope so!
You are on the right track, girlfriend in Christ!
God Bless ~
How about the part where....You stop committing the sin!!!
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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I agree with you, still.
Am I attacking the OP? No. Do I think she SOUNDS sincere? Yes!
But if there is anything that I have learned here...talk is cheap and actions are what you need to look at.
The underpinings of Dr Harley's whole philosophy is that until there is NC in place...waywards stay "foggy". So even if NewCreation is 100% out of the fog (which I am not convinced of yet) just the fact that she is in her WH's life would mean HE most likely would remain foggy. Which as far as I am concerned she confirmed in the other thread. It does not sound like he is repentent and it doesn't sound like he is interested in making amends to his children or his xBW. And just her continued marriage to the WH still pains the xBW from what has been posted. This bothers me. Sorry.
Last edited by SusieQ; 02/21/11 11:32 AM.
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