Thank you, Susie....I am not attacking OP and I hope she doesnt feel that we are.....

I just think that her forgiveness at this point is between her and God... and as far as the exBW, well, the sin is still being done to her...just because she is remarried and so many years have past...doesnt erase that.

still, there is another thread in MB101 where Mrs Wondering talks about her suggestion that the partners in an affairage separate until both waywards are repentant for the sake of everyone involved. It really resonated with me.

Something about an apology to the xBW feels disingenous to me at this point as well.

As an aside, it's too bad that the ones who aren't in support of NewCreations are being written off as bitter or unforgiving. I don't think that's the case at all.

I mean I would hate to suggest that they separate...but for her to make a true apology to the exBW...well...I think it would make sense...Otherwise, I feel, the apology is a hollow one...

I am gonna check out that thread....




PS....Just another thought...maybe I am just being dumb (wouldnt be the first time)...When you marry an affair partner does that change your OW title to a FOW?..

StillHere .. i think if you read all her posts .. you will discover that she is seperated from her husband currently. At least I am pretty sure i read that somewhere ... too lazy to search for it.

Okay...but unless they are divorced, then they are married...(am I being dumb again?)...Or they still have an "affairage"...If she is going to completely dump this "person" and separate the affairage, when that is done, then and only then is it a good time for the "apology" to the exBS. JMHO....

So if that is the case and I missed it, then ...I apologize...otherwise I stand by my posts..

No, she did not say that they were officially "separated"...but only that they are living in separate households in the same neighborhood and that she was prepared to move back home until she started posting here.

Thats what I thought I read too.....

So are we saying that if someone has an A at some point, marries the person, the BS's remarry, years pass, they repent and face what they did.....the only way to be honorable people is to divorce?

Would it make a difference if the couple gave birth to children during their M? For those who are Christians, does it make a difference if they became Christians AFTER all this happened? Is divorce the only convincing act of remorse?

I am not being sarcastic at all. I am genuinely asking if that is the position of posters. I would also like to know if that is the position of the founder of the site. Because I assume that whatever Dr. Harley would say would be what we would say as well.

My hope is that MelodyLane will come here and post a link from her speed-dial.

In the meantime, I believe that Dr. Harley would first look at the family situation. If there are children from the affairage, I think he would be in favor of treating it like a marriage. If not, no.

Thats not what I am saying.....I am just saying that the apology to the exBS would ring hollow to me otherwise, IMO...I am not saying that she is not remorseful for what she has done...and I believe she should make her peace with God...and I dont think that she needs to divorce her H....But I think at this point an apology to the exBW is not acceptable.

Good point, it can't be erased either, and I can't ever forgive the insult done to me by any OMs my wife might have seduced either.

I also agree it is going to have to be between her and God, and this isn't like a "do-over", where all is forgotten and forgiven, and I don't think God will let her off the hook either.

Just like MB teachs, and recovered marriages know, what they used to take for granted, the love of thier partner, or what they percieved at the time as love, has changed through adultry. That blissful state of entitlement is gone forever, and replaced with the knowledge that they must work to maintain a good relationship.

If she is attempting to "fix" everything and make it all better now, of course that can't be done, but if she is just attempting to be accountable to another to seek peace with God, and not expecting forgiveness from her, then she should do it.

The wisdom of the posters telling her that to them it would be an insult and like rubbing it in thier face I totally understand also, some will feel that way, but others might welcome the confession, we don't know.

She did something despicable and selfish and has been party to the destruction of Gods institution on earth, if she wants to own up to it and take her lumps, its the least she can do.

But I agree the issue mainly resides between her and God, and if the BW and the children will be harmed in any way, she should keep it there.

I don't think anyone who will not call wrong right here to be attacking her, rather helping her. I don't think she beleives she can do anything to fix it, or make it right somehow. I hope it will humble her the rest of her days. But I don't believe she should crawl under a rock and reject forgiveness from God, and she should do what he tells us, to be accountable to those we offend.

There is no fixing this..thats obvious right?

Its really not up to me as a Christian to lay judgement on this woman.....That is in Gods hands...If it were up to me and my bitterness...I dont even recognize this as a legit "marriage"...but it is not up to me....I am just speaking in terms of an apology to the exBS, the subject of the original post....

And self-serving, wishing to be forgiven, right? My take at first also, and maybe so, but everyone who wants anything can be called selfish, when it comes from God.

Maybe I am way off in this, but is not protecting your marriage a selfish pursuit? Are we all not in some way selfish? Don't we fight for what we want and need? Isn't that also for ourselves?

If all good things come from God, then he must be in charge of forgivness too. In this case He will be the only one who she can appeal to for it, us humans just don't have that place anyway, and I don't think we are supposed to either.

ITA.

Especially when the original sin is still being committed....

I mean if I had stolen a car from someone and ask that person for forgiveness while I still drive around in it what is the point...But there is nothing wrong with asking God for forgiveness....

I personally have already posted that I agree with what MrsW said on the other thread about the couple separating until they both are repentant. So far that is what has made the most sense to me. Maybe the OP should just contact the Harleys directly. I don't see really the value in hashing this out here on this forum...since we all obviously aren't going to agree...

I also feel badly for the people who were triggered by the thread but then labeled bitter or unforgiving by some. I have a very close family friend who went through the exact same scenario as the xBW in this thread, but the A happened in '01 or '02. They are D'd and the OW and her WH married. She is still not personally recovered and remains in counseling...I KNOW that this thread would upset her so that's the POV I am coming from...

I still have dreams of putting a .22cal pill in the OMs head, and I would feel justified. But for some reason God prevented this. I imagine because of the children.

LIke I said before, OM did call and opologize, and what was strange, all I could still think about was WW getting sober at the time. But wanting him dead never has gone away, to me hes a worthless piece of human pond-scum, the world will be better off when he dies.

Possibly I have a different perspective because my wife has passed on, and I don't have to know that she is still a messed up and hurtful Wayward out there living large at my expense.

I am about moving on, not about getting married again either, nor am I worried about it. I just come here to help.

At the core of everyone I believe they need to submit to a higher authority and seek understanding to have a good life.

I would never want to be in the place this woman is, and imagine her only comfort will be from God.

OK. posted enough on this thread TTYallL

Wise words SQ

Even before the A was over, I was seeing God's hand in meting out justice.

About two weeks after Dday, WxW informed me that OM was going in to the hospital for prostate cancer surgery (do I have to tell anyone what the side-effects of this are?). This was not a lie, as the GPS I planted showed her spending an entire day and night at the hospital.

OM is a smoker, to boot. One of the last pieces of information I got before going dark in Plan B (and that she had started smoking) was that doctors had spotted something "suspicious" on one of his lungs.

Gee, why do *I* need to plot revenge...?