I would be interested to hear if anyone else has encountered this thing that my WS keeps saying to me- "I feel like you think of me as your possession."

She has said this to me on several occassions (of course, never before she was wayward). I just don't understand it at all.

Any FWW out there ever feel this way?

Is this just more fog-babble?

Wish I could help you, but I never said that during my A, and I don't recall ever feeling that way.

Have you asked her to explain what she means by this?

I think I can address that because I remember saying something like that. Not sure what your marriage was like preA. I know my husband had a lot of IB (read he was never home). When he would refer to me it was often with the phrase "and the kids."
As, my DW....and the kids are coming later. or I have to go see DW...and the kids.

When he discovered my A and behaved as if he was jealous I felt that it was more the behavior of a two year old who is content playing with his little red car until another child picks up little blue car...now the boy must have little blue car as it is his FAVORITE.

His anger soon turned to hurt and pain and I really got to see the extent of what I had done so the 2 year old analogy was way off; however, when I ask about his excessive IB, he states he just thought he could enjoy all the things he liked and still come home to have me and the kids there so he could enjoy that too. He had no idea how I had put my life on hold to accomodate him....until I stopped.

I'm not saying you were like that at all but that is some of the thoughts that went through my head as far as being a possession.

This sounds like a cop out. She is making up leverage why she should leave you.

The fact is, we belong to our spouses. We are not two but one. Hollywood thinks differently to this. They say we are independent, and magically we each make the other happy.

In business we say: under promise and over perform. Hollywood attempts to do this the other way round. So why so many film star divorces?

Yes Writer1, I have asked, and she always replies, "I don't know, it's just how I feel."

TDB, here's my take from a BS point of view:

This is just more fog babble from waywards way of thinking. You see the problem is when waywards first get into an A they feel entitled. This entitlement makes them feel that no one can tell them what to do. They get pretty comfortable with this if the A goes on secretly long enough. They begin to re-write your marriage history and discover to their amazement that their BS has ALWAYS been controlling and possesive. Then they get discovered. The BS takes steps to break up the A like "you need to stop seeing or talking to OP. At this point they've already previously decided you're controlling and now...well that just proves it because they'll say something like:

"I can hang out with whoever I want to and you don't have anything to say about it. You can't control me, I don't have to divulge anything to you. What do you think, you own me or something? I'm not your possession!"

And there you have the answer to your question. JMHO

TD - You may or may not have done anything to deserve that 'label', but I think it shows insecurity and/or fear on her part. I don't recall your thread, but my WW used to refer to herself as the 'hired help' and she would say that marriage is 'legalized prostitution.' Both of those things still get under my skin, because I feel marriage is a partnership. I may be out earning a paycheck so that we can enjoy a certain lifestyle, but her raising our DS was probably MORE important to me. I can get another job, but my options with a child are much more limited.

IMHO, she owns her feelings, but you should/might be able to influence them over time. Lord knows I've tried that with my WW with limited success.

TD, what do YOU do when your WW says that? How do you react and how do you feel? It's obviously something that you think about long after she has said it. How many times has she said it to you? What were the two of you discussing when she said it? Just trying to see if you can figure this out.

Is this not just fog-babble rationalization? I mean I am all for you meeting her needs and treating her right. If there is a root then by all means get to it?

I would try to drill down on it. Can you get her to do the ENQ? That might help too...my wife just completed hers.

Reynolds, I would be cautious about this as TD's WW is still in an ACTIVE A and pointing her to ENQ may lead her HERE. He is trying to figure out a wayward and it is a mission in crazy. I wanted to get TD to a place where he could think about it more the way it is, that way when the next fog-babble saying is thrown out there, TD can recognize it for what it is.

Wow, lots of interesting insights. WS has said lots of hurtful things to me since the A has been going on, but this is the one that really has me scratching my head. WS is very physically attractive. In fact, she is usually the most beautiful woman in the room. However, she has also always been beautiful on the inside too. She has always been very humble and has never been obsessive about her looks.

I have never felt that I objectified her. Through 20+ years of marriage and four children, we both have run the entire spectrum physically, with weight gain and loss, and I have never felt that either of us have treated the other any differently. Prior to the A, I thought we had about the best partnership that any married couple could have.

WS was a stay-at-home mom for most of our marriage, so perhaps she lost a bit of her individual identity. She returned to the workforce to teach, which she loved. She sacrificed that job to help me start a business, which she now says she resented.

I have always been proud that she is my wife, but I have never felt this to be "possessive".

I did pour on the Plan A when I discovered the A, even when it was just an EA, and even before I knew what Plan A is. Some of the other related things that she says are "Why haven't you been doing this for the past 20 years?" and "You don't really mean all of this, you are just trying to get me to stay or come back." (Typical fog-babble, I know.)

The thing about WS now is that she is entirely focused on herself. She is obssessed with fitness, looks, youth, fashion and body image now. She has always been conscious of looking good, but not like this. DD18 complains that WS is always comparing herself to her, saying things like "I can wear your clothes now" and "I am smaller than you". She says she feels like she has lost her mother and gained an obnoxious sister. In fact, direct quote from DD18- "I feel like my mother has died, and has been replaced by a teenager."

Scotty, what I usually say when she says this is "I really don't understand how you could feel that way. What have I done to cause you to feel that way?" She never has an answer. She has probably said it to me two or three times, usually when we are having a serious discussion about the A. I have never reacted angrily or anything, just with disbelief and bewilderment. It makes me feel bad, because I love her so much, and I have always treated her with respect.

Thank you all for your comments.

"She never has an answer. She has probably said it to me two or three times, usually when we are having a serious discussion about the A."

Did you read my post TDB? This is fog babble. She's rewriting your marriage history. At one time pre A she probably felt that the same behavior was team work or protection. Once the A got started and she became more and more self centered, as you so adequately described, the mind set changes to your being controlling, possessive and jealous. You are not allowing and/or disapproving of her behavior. The statement she gave you was "I feel that you think I'm a possesion" right?

It's not about you, it's about her and only her so don't feel that you are or have been doing anything that would make her say that. Fog bableonia!!!

TD, if there's some way you could get your wife to read this letter, without telling her where it came from so that she won't find this site, that would be awesome:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...at&Number=2478315&gonew=1#UNREAD

You may want to have your MIL or someone else give it to her, or send it to her anonymously, since she'd probably be more receptive to it if it didn't come from you.

But I definitely think she needs to read it.

Having some behavioral problems with DD18. WS found out that she was involved in some unsavory activities over the weekend. We went to talk with her together. I warned WS that DD18 may say some hurtful things to her. As expected, DD18 lashed out at her mother about the A. She was actually quite respectful about it, but did bring up the A, POSOM, and the destruction of our family. This affected WS tremendously. Afterwards, she was very emotional. We had a good talk, but she is still resistant to reconciling. Says she doesn't feel that she can come home and be miserable. I said I don't want you to come home until you can make a commitment to me and our kids.

I called her later in the afternoon and she is crying uncontrollably. She says she knows she has ruined everything. I say let's fix it. She says she's not sure how. She was so distraught that I was worried about her, so I sent MIL over to check on her. They have a brief talk, in which she tells MIL "I know what I have to do." She emails me later last night and tells me that she is going out of town for a few days.

I call her this morning to see how she is doing. She says she is going to her sister's over the weekend to think things through. She says she has broken off the A and asked POSOM to leave her alone. She is going to make some changes in her life. She wants to spend more time with the kids, and she will let me know how that is going to be when she returns. She says this in a very demanding way, and I react badly. We argue about this for awhile (lovebuster, I know).

After the call, I feel terrible about the way I reacted to her demands. After all, if she truly is breaking it off with POSOM (and believe me, I know this is 50/50), I should be happy about that, shouldn't I? I call her back and tell her that I am sorry for the way I reacted. I was wrong and she was right. She is trying to make some positive changes in her life, and I support that. I am happy that she wants to take a more active role with the kids, and I will work with her in any way that I can.

She says, "I know that you want me to come home, but I just can't right now. Maybe I will feel differently later. I am just trying to do something to make things better. I am doing what I feel I can live with right now."

We have a very long, meaningful conversation.

Do I think this guarantees NC? Of course not. (In fact, I am painfully aware that this could be "weekend with POSOM". Not much I can do about that, though.)Do I think it's a start? Yes, I do.

Is it possible that the children are going to be the catalyst for breaking through the fog? I think so.

Again, I am not confident, or even optimistic. But I am hopeful- hopeful that the fog will begin to lift, and the person who was once my wife will come back to herself.

Baby steps. Keep your fingers crossed.

TD - I swear your WW is my WW's lost sister. It sounds like you may have some baby steps to look forward to in the near future. Like you, I think my DS is the key to the ultimate decision in my case - just like your kids. I present an optimistic exterior to my WW, but inside I'm struggling with a range of emotions. It feels like an endurance race and I just need to outlast her anger and bitterness. That's easier said than done.

Your WW is rebuilding the dike with the kids. I don't believe she's ending the A. I believe she's going to try to make people believe she has in order to get back in good graces with her children.

Make sure your requirements for recovery are solid. Make sure she doesn't try to change up any agreements you have concerning the kids.

Sounds promising TD, I just hope its not a set up for another let down. Its definately a long long road. My WW has said similar things, such as she knows she messed up and she just can't be with me right now, but she has never even mentioned ending her A with the POSOM.

Keep the faith. At least it sounds as if some fog has lifted. Even if its only temporary, its a start.

Andy,

I completely understand the range of emotions. Extremely hard to Plan A effectively when you have so much going on inside.

So much easier said than done.

MB, you may be right. If she tries this though, it will backfire in a big way.

Requirements for recovery are rock solid (in fact, I reaffirmed them to her yesterday).

I have been through this false/temporary recovery before, and I know it sucks. Her previous record for NC is 3 weeks, so we'll see.

I have zero expectations.

Good. Stay firm with her. I think the guilt of her infidelity, as reflected in her children's eyes, is getting to her. This is the part that bothers me: