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I just want to be clear one more time...
I WILL NOT ASK FOR HELP FOR MY MARRIAGE ON THESE BOARDS.
If I post it will only be about my continuing efforts towards growing in Christ and warning others about what adultery causes. I may update on my sitch with the BW if an update happens, and I will gladly answer any questions asked of me. But... I WILL NOT ask for marriage advice here. I do understand why and how that would be offensive. That is graceful, and at the same time, sad. I am going to have to say that I can no longer participate in your thread, as I simply don't have the conscience to watch the suffering of the sick and dying and stand here with my hands on my hips. I hope the books and articles from here lead you where you want to go. I don't understand. You think she should not be here? Personally even though she triggered me on my own thread about my ds and his stupid father I STILL think she has value to add to the boards. She isn't like the guy on 101 a few weeks ago who wanted help with his affairage...he said all sorts of wayward crap.
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And as for the bank robber analogy, I have a couple of responses.
First you are talking about earthly law, the laws of man. Not the laws of God. If you murder someone you can't bring that person back to life and return them to the family you took them from. God can still forgive you. Yes, there would be jail time on earth but there are no earthly laws about remarriage or affairage so my concern is with Godly law.
Second again I think to the many scriptures reminding us that it is through our faith and not our works that we will enter into His Kingdom. Any attempt to return my husband to his BW whether she wanted him or not, or even to live the rest of my days alone would be my human efforts. My WORKS. My works are not what God requires. He requires my faith. And my faith is an exciting work in progress!!
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What if the bank robber spent the money on bubble gum that he chewed all up?....What if he decides to pay the money back only to discover that a new government has taken over and his currency is worthless? Then he gets a job and STILL has to RE-PAY THE MONEY. That is part of the consequence. The bank isn't going to just let him skip on out of there with a "oh, the money's been chewed up? I guess we're just SOL then!". Noooo...he must find a way to re-pay the bank. What if the bank robber has a stroke and is paralyzed and can't work? What then? Oh but he really enjoyed all that bubble gum back in the day. Seriously, some wrongs just cannot be righted in our imperfect state. But in her case the wrong CAN be righted. You are giving scenarios that are not pertinent to this situation. The situations you mention are different. This is not.
Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. 
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The way I interpret the Bible....The BW and WH are bound together forever...and if there is infidelity then the betrayed can divorce the Wayward and not have to act as a spouse should, but cannot remarry....Both are not supposed to remarry. That is just my interpretation....Only death can be a reason to remarry. Hey still, sorry to see you are sick,(your avatar) I can't see that people who are not willing to submit to God first, can even understand what marriage is in the first place. Again it is to take care of someone in the way which God does, and a challenge in that light also. Agreed, that people learn as they go along, and that adultry is just one of the pitfalls possibly endured in a marriage, along with as we have all learned through DH Hs help, the many forms of selfishness we take on in the marriage. I just don't agree with "marriage at any cost", and seperation or D is IMO a viable reason to leave someone who is abuseing you, adultry being the most painful, but certainly not the only abuse. I want to encourage you to seek what is peaceable between you and God, and be blessed by His presence in your life. Of course it is your choice whether to get married again, don't let mans interpretation of Old Testement Law take away form the Grace bestowed upon us from Christ. Like ML says, "The only thing worse than not keeping a promise is keeping a bad promise" You are free to find someone who will keep a good one at any time. I also dont believe in M at any cost....but as for my interpretation of the Bible...We get one shot at it (unless your spouse dies)...I wish I could see it otherwise.... I have Gods gift of a gorgeous, wonderful little boy...So I am not alone in life...I can live with that...
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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Second again I think to the many scriptures reminding us that it is through our faith and not our works that we will enter into His Kingdom James 2:20: "...that faith without works, is dead." Personally I would not be willing to take chances. I would want to make sure all of my bases were covered and that I had repented to the fullness of possibility. I would sure hate to find out I didn't do enough, when it was too late.
Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks.
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Second again I think to the many scriptures reminding us that it is through our faith and not our works that we will enter into His Kingdom James 2:20: "...that faith without works, is dead." Personally I would not be willing to take chances. I would want to make sure all of my bases were covered and that I had repented to the fullness of possibility. I would sure hate to find out I didn't do enough, when it was too late. ITA
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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Oh boy, here we go again. sigh.. What always happens with affairages is board members express their disgust and horror at the thought of being put in a position of helping an affair. They envision their OWN WS' coming on the board with his OW and asking for help with his affair. It is like asking the rape victims to render aide to the rapist.
Seriously, what kind of person does that to others? I will tell you who. An affairee who has very little empathy and lots and lots of selfishness.
What happens next is the BS's and recovered WS' object to this outrage and then THEY are pounced upon and called "hard hearted," etc, etc, etc. The tables are turned and they are suddenly the bad guys for objecting to the equivalent of the rapist seeking aide from rape victims.
All the while, the affairee sits back and watches the fist fight with a smug grin on her face.
Lets not go there. NewCreation, you seem like a nice, sincere person. I don't profess to have the answer to the question of sin, but I do know where this is going to go. It is a board distraction and very, very upsetting and galling to most posters here.
The result will be that you don't get any help but will upset and outrage many good folks who have had to deal with LOTS and LOTS of upset and heartbreak in their lives.
So why not show some empathy here and call the Harleys directly? Get help in a one on one setting. That is the best way to ensure you get help and avoids all this drama.
What do you say?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I just want to be clear one more time...
I WILL NOT ASK FOR HELP FOR MY MARRIAGE ON THESE BOARDS.
If I post it will only be about my continuing efforts towards growing in Christ and warning others about what adultery causes. I may update on my sitch with the BW if an update happens, and I will gladly answer any questions asked of me. But... I WILL NOT ask for marriage advice here. I do understand why and how that would be offensive. That is graceful, and at the same time, sad. I am going to have to say that I can no longer participate in your thread, as I simply don't have the conscience to watch the suffering of the sick and dying and stand here with my hands on my hips. I hope the books and articles from here lead you where you want to go. I don't understand. You think she should not be here? Personally even though she triggered me on my own thread about my ds and his stupid father I STILL think she has value to add to the boards. She isn't like the guy on 101 a few weeks ago who wanted help with his affairage...he said all sorts of wayward crap. No, I just wish there were more here for her than her value to others. I do wish there was some hope and healing for her. I think the full passage you quoted carries the weight even better; 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, �Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,� but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, �You have faith; I have deeds.�
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that�and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, �Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,�[e] and he was called God�s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. Feelings follow action, right?
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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I think that God will use me and those will be my works. Works of His choosing. This is not a decision I have taken lightly. It is not a decision I came to out of convenience. I have been ready and resolved to follow through with divorce if that was the path God made clear to me. I do not feel that it is. I feel a peace in my heart today that I have not felt in years and I believe that is God giving my answer. That is God telling me I am forgiven.
I understand that may not make some people happy. I am sure that the human in us would prefer to think that those who have wronged us and caused us pain only get to suffer and pay. Thankfully God doesn't meet out justice the way we would. I for one am glad. I think we all should be. I think if we all got what we really deserved even the best of us would be in big trouble. I am thankful for grace.
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Okay MelodyLane. You all here have helped me in my repentance and healing process. If my leaving returns the favor in any small way then I will go.
I am sorry to go, but I understand why.
Signing off!
NewCreation
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I am extremely happy that you have peace in your heart....and I am only expressing my interpretations....I hope that you do not think I am condeming you....Your relationship with GOD is betw you and he...it has NOTHING to do with me or what I think....I was only trying to judge my sitch....I wish you continued peace...
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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NC, that would be a true demonstration of empathy and Christian compassion.
God Bless!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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..Right ~ adultery is GROUNDS for D but it is not MANDATORY to D if adultery is involved... Agreed, then it because the hardness of our hearts that God gave us the right to D right? Does that mean that we should remain in a awful marriage if there is no adultry? If someone is emotionally twisted or physically abusive and will not seek any help from anybody? I am asking a question also, because my alcoholic wife, who was also a professing Christian, who knew the Bible dot and tittle way better than me, also used it against me with the Law of it. I am reminded of the words from a Pastor I know, "The Bible, the only book that kills people" So staying and covering her sins was the right thing to do? Or did I condemn her to a life of addiction and denial by staying around and being her doormat? My spirit told me I was abused, but my legalism kept me there, as well as my love for the children, and the hope it would come to an end. But I assumed the rank of a marytr, and even though it might have saved the children from a worse fate, the sacfifice I am certain did not send them a positive message about God and marriage. I did it to myself of course, on that point God is reaching me slowly. But it brings me back to my main question. What is more important, our relationship with God, and obedience to him, or our percieved sacrifices to him? It has set me somewhat free, to realize Christ made the only pure and accepted sacrifice to God, and that mine would not satisfy the Law of God.
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NC, I am not going to give you marriage advice.
But I hope that you know that God's Word explicitly states that we are saved by grace through faith, and that if you have repented of sin and places your faith in Christ as your Lord and savior based on what He did on the cross, you are NOT going to hell.
Once again I have "fallen out of favor" (big deal), but calling into question your salvation is a very personal attack and one that I assume would not be tolerated if it were known.
It's a very fine line. Sometimes one word can be enough to change a person's entire view. But the God who created me knows I have repented, and the man that I betrayed in the spring of 2006 knows I have repented and has fully forgiven me. People who do not have a myopic view of me know who I am. I pray that you can have that same confidence.
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Okay MelodyLane. You all here have helped me in my repentance and healing process. If my leaving returns the favor in any small way then I will go.
I am sorry to go, but I understand why.
Signing off!
NewCreation I didn't say you needed to GO...I simply said that it would be a disaster if you asked for help for your affairage here. I think you have a lot to offer those who think that the grass is greener in affairages. You seem sincerely remorseful which is certainly a breath of fresh air.
Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks.
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What if the bank robber spent the money on bubble gum that he chewed all up?....What if he decides to pay the money back only to discover that a new government has taken over and his currency is worthless? Then he gets a job and STILL has to RE-PAY THE MONEY. That is part of the consequence. The bank isn't going to just let him skip on out of there with a "oh, the money's been chewed up? I guess we're just SOL then!". Noooo...he must find a way to re-pay the bank. What if the bank robber has a stroke and is paralyzed and can't work? What then? Oh but he really enjoyed all that bubble gum back in the day. Seriously, some wrongs just cannot be righted in our imperfect state. But in her case the wrong CAN be righted. You are giving scenarios that are not pertinent to this situation. The situations you mention are different. This is not. You came up with the bank robber story not me. This wrong CANNOT be righted! The BW has remarried and doesn't want him back. A new vow/marriage has been made with NC and her husband and that needs to be honoroed if possible.
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..Right ~ adultery is GROUNDS for D but it is not MANDATORY to D if adultery is involved... Agreed, then it because the hardness of our hearts that God gave us the right to D right? Does that mean that we should remain in a awful marriage if there is no adultry? If someone is emotionally twisted or physically abusive and will not seek any help from anybody? I am asking a question also, because my alcoholic wife, who was also a professing Christian, who knew the Bible dot and tittle way better than me, also used it against me with the Law of it. I am reminded of the words from a Pastor I know, "The Bible, the only book that kills people" So staying and covering her sins was the right thing to do? Or did I condemn her to a life of addiction and denial by staying around and being her doormat? My spirit told me I was abused, but my legalism kept me there, as well as my love for the children, and the hope it would come to an end. But I assumed the rank of a marytr, and even though it might have saved the children from a worse fate, the sacfifice I am certain did not send them a positive message about God and marriage. I did it to myself of course, on that point God is reaching me slowly. But it brings me back to my main question. What is more important, our relationship with God, and obedience to him, or our percieved sacrifices to him? It has set me somewhat free, to realize Christ made the only pure and accepted sacrifice to God, and that mine would not satisfy the Law of God. I personally dont think that God wants anyone to stay in an abusive marriage...its tough to reconcile that with the Bible...Here is something I found interesting on that subject. spousal abuse and divorce
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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People who do not have a myopic view of me know who I am. Good grief luri, are you talking about us here? WE have a "myopic view" of you? Do you realize that in just about every single post of yours, you somehow bring up how horribly you are treated here? Or maybe just in the world? You could be a real asset to this board, luri, if you dropped the defensiveness. You seem truly remorseful but it gets old how every.single.one.of.your.posts complains about how poorly others see you. Please think about this. Please just be an asset to the board and quit feeling so attacked. NO ONE is attacking you.
Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks.
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A new vow/marriage has been made with NC and her husband and that needs to be honoroed if possible. So the bank robber has made a vow to never rob another bank but is still spending the money from the first bank??? THAT is repentance? We're going to have to agree to disagree, this is going nowhere. I do not agree with your interpretations of the bible and you don't agree with mine.
Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks.
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I mean abuse has many angles....I dont think that God would want you to stay married if your spouse was a believer in God and suddenly became a satan worshipper or murderer...etc...
You need to separate yourself from that evil...and that what I think that website and its Bible references are pointing out...again, just my opinion....
BW me-41 WH -39 DS - 9 married 12 Yrs together(?) 18 yrs when A discovered DDay aug 2007 found MB dec 2007 Moved out april 2008 still seeing OW Plan B Okay I fixed the ages, it was looking screwy.
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