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Don't be too happy yet. There are good times, great times, and bad times. I adore the heck out of her, cannot stand it how much I love her. And then, when its not returned, I break down and cry. Rollercoaster is right.

She might not love me back. Might not want to try. She broke my heart. Still broken. And she might break it again.

But there is definitely progress. Good times. We do NOT act like nothing has happened. Its very real. We come back to discuss it and work on MB homework and reading.

Looking forward to vacation. Its 0 degrees here and snowing again. Going to get the family to the beach next weekend!

I pampered myself and bought myself a Color Nook. I deserve it. She said, "I figured you were doing something like that."


Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
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Stretch, it sounds like you may have entered hysterical bonding. From what I understand about that, its a good sign, particularly if started by your wife.
Don't worry about being in love with your wife. You are going to need every bit of that for the marathon down the line. There are lots of days my guage is bouncing on empty, but you try to keep moving.

Tom, not exactly sure what your issue with my post is, but not looking to start an argument with you on someone elses thread. Please believe me when I say I believe it can't all be heavy advice and brow beating on these threads - part of the purpose is to give stretch a support system. He should know and I think he does that I have been his friend here, and always will be here for him. If I feel he needs more advice than I or orthers can give him, I will go get a top flight person for him. Marital is definitely one of those.


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Does Harley ever write or talk about hysterical bonding?


Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
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Looked around and some great old threads for newly betrayed.

Plan A will not work for you if.... (I need to adjust my thinking somewhat)
Inside the Wayward Mind.... (I have heard all of this!)....

So, I learned Dr Harley said Plan A works 15% of the time. Men can typically keep it up for 6 months. Okay, I have expectations and an end date in mind.

Meanwhile, I understand the WW fogbabble. They all say the same things.


Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
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Based on how its going for you, I say you are better than a fifteen percent shot. Just don`t do plan doormat is all. Have your plan, stick to it and don`t give up your boundaries.

Hysterical bonding LOL, have a look in the recovery section, there are a few mentions of it there. Otherwise just google it - just remember to clear the damn browser:)


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Quote
Tom, not exactly sure what your issue with my post is, but not looking to start an argument with you on someone elses thread. Please believe me when I say I believe it can't all be heavy advice and brow beating on these threads - part of the purpose is to give stretch a support system. He should know and I think he does that I have been his friend here, and always will be here for him. If I feel he needs more advice than I or orthers can give him, I will go get a top flight person for him. Marital is definitely one of those.


It would seem tom feels he flies higher than the rest of us around here. 42 years of M is a long time, but I've been m'd 41 and one half years to my W.

Don't get caught up in this non-sence.

Tom, get off your high horse, you look like Napoleon.

All Blessings,
Jerry

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Originally Posted by stretch123
Thanks LNT.

Other people I talk to don't understand our BH group. We are working so hard to win back WW's because we love them. I hear all the time: "You are stronger than me. You are a better man than me. I wouldn't hang in there and do this."

Well, those gents haven't been sitting in our position. Also, quite often, its younger rash men that say that sort of thing to me. I have spent the past six months developing a deeper love for her. But I was frustrated that it wasn't getting all the effects. Little did I know she wasn't giving me a chance to deposit love units while she used vast amounts of energy to maintain this lie and betrayal. Now its very clear.

When she thinks: "Its impossible. Its too late." I am pretty sure what she can't see is that she will need to make the 180. SHe will need to admit to her A being a mistake. To the hurt and deceit. To revisit a lot of her revisionist history. To believe in me and my changes and growth. I have demonstrated so much remorse for mistakes and missing her EN's.

But when she says, "It's too late.." She means:

"Its easier to quit and not believe in my H."
"I am afraid to shatter these big walls and these stories and predjudices that I worked so hard to build in order to allow myself to have an A and defend my terrible actions."
"I will have to drop my baggage about what my husband said or did five years ago that I convinced myself justified my affair and that's uncomfortable."
"I will need to talk to my friends and family and be supportive of my husband, and be honest about our growth and that's going to be a switch in my way of talking to my support group."
"It was easy to make H the bad guy and get their support, encouragement and approval for my A. Now I have to be fair and honest with them. And with my personal therapist."
"Now maybe I have to understand my own responsibility for my depression."
"None of this is easy or fun."
"Now I have to believe in H's remorse and guilt for missing my EN's all those years and believe in the new man."
"Now I have to figure out what I did that maybe missed his EN's."
"This is a lot of hard work."
"It was going to be easier to blame you and just quit."

I think that sums up what's so frustrating to the WW. Damn these dedicated, committed BH's for their love and devotion! Why don't they just get angry and play the abusive role like I expected them too?!?!

Well said, Stretch!


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Originally Posted by stretch123
So, I learned Dr Harley said Plan A works 15% of the time. Men can typically keep it up for 6 months. Okay, I have expectations and an end date in mind.

I have never understood why Dr. Harley gives a different timeline to men vs. women. Maybe I'm just over-sensitive, but there's NO WAY I could have Plan A'd for 6 months. Maybe having kids makes a difference? I don't know....

Stretch, I hate to say this, but it's important for your to think and decide about whether you want to save this marriage if the affair was physical. Based on the way she's been acting, I feel pretty sure this was a PA. Have you considered that? Will that affect your attempts towards recovery>

Sorry to be negative - I just want to make sure there's no loose ends left in the closet an you begin the real recovery work.

Best wishes, Arpeggi


Formerly ConfuzedHusband
BH
WW (Now XW)
Married 4 years, No children.
EA/PA from 2/2008 to 5/2008.
DDay: 5/17/2008 - Separated 6/1/2008 - Filed 8/3/2008
Divorce final 3/2009.

Now in a committed relationship with a woman of character who loves me so much better and deeper than I ever dreamed possible. I had no idea what I was missing out on and am so grateful God gave me a free "second chance" at love and life.
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It seems this was not PA. Based upon the emails and the conversations with friends.

It was EA. Just as bad though. She wanted PA. She asked him for it. She admitted she wanted to jump into PA if he would agree and spend more time withher. So its pretty awful to think about. She was heartbroken this man would not pursue her. I've seen her more upset about his rejection than about this marriage. All part of the fog. What she did was terrible and she's coming to grips.

I read more about Plan A. I can do 6 months. I am getting stronger every day. Just working on me. I've been thinking about D for only a week or two and it doesn't reduce me to tears every time. She has been thinking about D for at least 2 years. All a fantasy though for her. She will really think about it if/when we hit Plan B.

But perhaps we have a better than 15% chance. It seems that we do.

Mental breakthroughs for me about Plan A:
--Its not about getting my EN's met.
--I cannot force her to commit
--I cannot make her show remorse or be sorry
--I cannot make her forget OM.
--She wonders what Ammends she must make and what she should do to build Trust. That's fine and dandy to think about now. But we won't work on that until we're in recovery. Right now... Plan A.
--She has one foot in / one foot out. I can't force her to decide.
--I am becoming the man, the husband, the father I want to be. So I know I am very lovable and worthy of someone. Hopefully her.
--I am building emotional strength.
--When I am strong enough and feel I have done my best (about six months) I will evaluate if she has commitment. If she has one foot in and one foot out.... Plan B.
--Plan A = see what your Marriage could really be like.
--Plan B = see what your Divorce could really be like.

Last edited by stretch123; 02/28/11 04:57 PM.

Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
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[/quote]
I feel pretty sure this was a PA. Have you considered that? Will that affect your attempts towards recovery>

Sorry to be negative - I just want to make sure there's no loose ends left in the closet an you begin the real recovery work.
[/quote]

I have suspicions there was something else. Possibly further in the past. Still looking into it. Can't have another one holding her back in MC. She gave about 5% to our therapy last year while I was making major breakthroughs and working my butt off on me. All experts agree (not just Harley) if one of you is in an affair and you're trying MC -- you got no chance. Save your $. Our therapist last year actually knew about her A. HE KNEW. And took our money for 9 months. Any professional would have called her and said, "I can't help you. You're not working on this with me and H."

So I could be paranoid about another one in the past -- but I won't be naive. We'll find out. If it happened -- her peeps know about that too.


Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
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How in the heck do you snip those original post quotes. I cannot for the life of me figure that out after all these weeks.


Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,653
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Originally Posted by stretch123
How in the heck do you snip those original post quotes. I cannot for the life of me figure that out after all these weeks.

To break up a quote, do this:

Hit the quote button for your reply. The posters text is shown with [quote=postername] at the beginning and [ /quote] at the end.

Then take out the text you don't want to quote and then type /quote but put /quote in brackets [ ] to end it.

To post another quote segment, put [quote=postername] at the beginning and [/quote ] at the end (without the space between e and ].

It's kind of hard to type it because the program wants to put my response in a quote box.


Me (BH)
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Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2

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Originally Posted by Northwood8900
To break up a quote, do this:

got it hopefully


Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
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WW fogbabble:

"I can't remember a time I ever liked being his wife"
"This marriage has always been hard"
"We stopped having fun. When we first dated he was fun. I don't remember any fun in the marriage."
"I knew something was wrong from the beginning."

We met our personal MC therapist today, I pointed out that she says all these things about our history... tons of stories about how it never worked, never fun, all bad memories. He looked at her and said with a straight face yet poking fun at her, "Well of course you had to do that. You really needed to work hard to tell yourself all those stories."


Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
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Careful with that Stretch. Before I found MB, I went to counselling, and the MC spent two sessions working over my wife. I got off scott free..any issues I caused were minor. And the affair plowed right through that. Waywards can't reasoned with, bartered with, convinced or reformed in MC.

Nice vidication, I am just saying don't make more of it than what it was. If it does reach her great, but I doubt it.


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I know. MC is often really bad. I did my homework this time and made sure this guy was good. I asked him to be what Harley said: A Motivator, A Coach, Have a Plan, Prepare us for Emotional Stress. He has been all those things.

First MC was incompetant, unprofessional, unethical boob.

It helps her to hear someone else be tough. But I agree, I wonder how much is in one ear and out the other. She was faking it in MC for a year before exposure. Lying is easy and natural. Hearing what she wants to hear can be easy and natural too.


Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
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Thats exactly the problem. My wife told the counsellor that it was over blah blah blah I want to work on it blah blah blah.

That lasted about two weeks.

But it seemed like a very positive conversation, we all agreed, we were all headed the same way.

In the end the only thing that ended the affair was plan A and exposure. Now if I could only get us recovered, we'd be all set.


FBH,Dad
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Originally Posted by Tom2010
Hey Reynolds, there is no honor or pride or humor in attempting to create a 'BH Clubhouse' for solace in regard to my interpretation of MB. I realize the tee hee in terms of salving betrayal wounds and relieving the stress, but it doesn't work with me. I think Stretch needs much more than you and Bliss have offered very recently.

So, maybe either be prepared to offer up LONG-TERM marital experience and success or shorter-term expertise and counseling training.

Stretch: I realize that you need the committment from your WW at this time. The thing I think you are going to have to realize is that to gain that, you are going to have to show your patience for a long time. It seems unfair. It's a risk, but the only person who can decide if it that risk is acceptable is you.

Tom
I'm not sure how I missed this or I would have addressed it sooner.

Oh, now Tom, simmer down. naughty The stress a betrayed spouse endures is incomprehensible, and the emotional pain of reclaiming a marriage from an affair is almost more than some people can handle at times. That is when a little levity goes a long way toward supporting a BS emotionally.

One of the tools that can be a Godsend to a BS is humor. It is especially useful when the poster offering the humor has become a friend of the BS in question. Humor can be a lifeline.



D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Thank you MB.
I am only 3 weeks past exposure day and finally regaining some composure and emotional stability. Humor is good. Levity. Taking a vacation. Exercise. EN's with wife including OH, CO, FC, and SF!!!

But it gets heavy. The fog is just starting to lift for her. This will be a marathon. I've got about 5 more months that I can stick with Plan A.


Me: 43
ExWW: 44
Married 16yrs. 4 children

EA (ExWW): May-Nov 2009 + Aug-Dec 2010
D-DAY JAN 30, 2011
Exposure: FEB 7, 2011
Contact Again: Apr 25, 2011
Divorce Final Sept 2012

"I want to be married and stay married. Now I uunderstand the kind of marriage I want and we all deserve. But I also know it takes two to want to Build that Marriage."
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Hey hi....

I just get a little disgusted with the half-hearted efforts presented by some of the BH's on here. I.E., if ya want to play for the Packers (win your W back) you better get your butt and your mind in gear! And, if Reyonolds is really serious about his M, would you not think he would risk his own thread?

That is all..

Tom

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