Ms. Writer,

First of all, my god, you are either a saint for your family, and in the eyes of God, or you are just damned unlucky...I think a little of both.

****edit*****

Just please relax on the home situation until you have all the facts. I kind of would wish to hear you post here that your H is taking charge of this and relieving you of some of the stress, but that does not seem to be the case. He needs to champion you and your family now. I guess I wonder if your S16 and your H have any kind of relationship, or if he even respects his dad. The thing about the military school, and subsequent living back home - placing more stress on the family - would have been dealt with early and often by most husbands as well as me. What is your H doing now in regard to shouldering the stress from you and in relating to his son in terms of your family's strife.

Ms. Writer, I feel there is something so disjointed here in terms of you having to bear the burden for your family and express it here. Expressing it is one thing - seeing you post that your hubby has finally taken charge and that you feel relieved and reassured is quite another.

To reassure you that I feel qualified in what I am commenting on - my son arrived yesterday needing a place. Of course it means extra food and all, and it means I won't be able to have Char here this weekend. It also means I care for him, but I am not going to be un-kickass! Had a talk with him last night, and now today he hyped up his response to job search. He not only has a part-time job here at the condo unit in the office, but he went on an interview today for a machinist job and they seem interested.

Just take care Ms. Writer, be assured of my prayers for you and your family,

Tom

Good advice Tom

Praying for ya Writer, following your thread.

Contsant,

Ya know what, the Internet is what it is - an informal but yet impersonal way for people to communicate. But ya know what else, despite the impersonal part of it, if you care for others, the Internet is a tool for expressing that.

We are all real people behind the keyboard. You just seem like a very caring person. Sometimes when I read your posts they seem long winded, but I know now that that is due to your concern.

I just wish that Ms. Writer would do a Clay Matthews! Shake her long hair over the sink and come up fighting! I know she has endured lots. But I don't see her fighting, challenging (i.e. her S16), and insisting.

I care for her too, but she needs to try to find a pict of Clay Matthews and/or let her hair grow longer! That means, make sure the people (teamates/family) around you are wiling to support you, be confident in that they will, and tuck her hair under her helmut and take charge.

Tom

My H is a customer service representative. He works in a call center. He's pretty much done call center work throughout our entire marriage.

Tom, I already have long hair. Not sure how that's going to help though.

Yeah my kids would hate having to listen to a lecture from me, lol, when they got in trouble, you can imagine.

I think, and told my 20 yr. old last night as a matter of fact, that we all need heros and icons to look up to, something that many sports heros have dissapointed me in as I felt the spirit of hard work and teamwork they are supposed to be examples of, serves regular people with everyday jobs, and so many have turned it into a business, or fallen into bad behaviour. I know you agree.

I know Ms Writer has it in her, and her H too, to overcome this crisis, and who is to say this is not part of Gods plan for them, or that the depression that attacks her is not part of a process of change. I am glad for her she has people like you and others level headed and not afraid to support her as she figures out the fight.

Have you ever read about Joshua in the Old Testement writer? He took the promised land and was a great warrior. Know what his secret was? He meditated on the word of God every day and it was his armor for the battle. It was internal, not external armor, where it really counts. I don't know if you read the good book regularly, but time together with H and/or family every morning can strengthen you all and pull you together in spirit. There is nothing stronger than that.

Keep up the good fight ((((Writer)))

He is refering I think to a football player Writer. Correct me if I'm wrong Tom.

Ms. Writer,

I feel I need to apologize because I did not mean anything regarding you or your situation on my last post.

Clay Matthews is a linebacker for the Green Bay Packers, and he simply has this ritual of displaying his long hair (for a guy), for the benefit of the opposition, but you would not want to be in his sights on a football field. Neither would I...*s* It was only my take on humor to attempt to lighten your heart. It is just one of those rituals on his part, but it seems to be one of those superstions that gives an athelete an edge. My comment was meant only to hope you find an edge in what you are going thru.

I hope you and your family are well this Saturday night, and that you can relax with one another and progress.

At this point, I would like to advise to please pay attention to Constant. I say that because he not only seems to have the time to be here but that he also seems to care for people.

Prayers,

Tom

Ms. Writer, by the way..

Everyone, or at least many people, have tugs and pulls and problems confronting families from time to time.

I have declined to have Char here this weekend because I am handling my son here now. He needs attention and encouragement now. Yea she is pi**ed, but I have just so much energy and have limitations. He has a part-time job here now at the complex, but I feel I need to devote my energy and time to him now. He also is awaiting responses from interviews he has been on the last week. God can be omnipresent, I cannot.

Just take care...

Tom

Reminds me of that old Clint Eastwood line from the "Dirty Harry" movies, " A man has got to know his limitations.." Speaking of Icons that is..

Just talking to my 23 yr old Son, 5 mins ago. He is frustrated with his Brother who just turned 20 yesterday, in that he stopped working and is not cleaning up around the house.

The 20 year old is mad at himself and is beating himself up emotionally because of his laziness. The other day he said he wished he had something that made him get up and move.


These are both good things, but because I will not clean up after them anymore, the house stays dirty. I want to move out and let 20 year old fend for himself in his own place, but I also want to be close to them. My 23 yr old has a good job and is able to take care of himself. My dd lives with her H, but my 20 year old is not independant enough or confident enough to survive on his own yet.

The world has a way of forcing us to grow up, and as soon as I am sure my 20 year old will respond positively to the challange, and be the grown-up I know he is inside, I am considering moving back to my home state to take care of my aging Mom for awhile.

After the 10 years of a crazy household my kids had to endure, and the almost two years after my wifes death, we have had a chance to search ourselves and decompress a lot of the emotions that drove us, and come to grips with the plain truth that we are in charge of our lives, and our future and our attitudes are in our hands.

My goal has allways been for my childrens independance from thier parents. They have known this all thier lives. At some point they will be alone with themselves, and I want them to like who they see in the mirror every morning, shake off the bullcrap, and live to the highest standard they can. I told them someday, when my stewardship over thier lives had ended, they still have a Heavenly father to lean on. I had hoped I could emulate Him while I was alive and healthy for them, and I answered to Him, and it is He who I respect above anyone else.

To me that is freedom, and that is the best gift you can give. IMO. The emotional attachment to people can limit us to seeing things clearly, and can sometimes get in Gods way. Do I really think that my plan for thier lives is better than Gods?

So glad you are staying strong for your son Tom, I am sure Char knows and trusts your wisdom.

God Bless

I just did an update here.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...flat&Number=2477037&#Post2477037
Take a look

Ugh! I am so ANGRY!

My son started his sexual offenders therapy last night. He called me halfway through hysterical and in tears because the leader of the group threw him out after my son refused to admit to his "crime." A veteran group member came out while I was on the phone with my son and basically told us that my son would have to admit to the rape (whether he did it or not) and then make up a convincing story to go along with it, or his lack of cooperation would be reported to his probation officer and he would likely be sent to prison.

So, I had to tell my son to go back into that room, lie, and make up a story about something that never happened just to keep him out of jail. He has 99 of these meetings left to go to. 99 more times he has to lie and admit to doing something he never did, and keep his story straight so no one figures out that he's lying.

I was so MAD last night that I just sat in bed until 2 a.m. and cried. I wanted to hit something. I wanted to smash something. All I feel is rage. This nightmare is never going to end. This is going to affect my son, my entire family, for the rest of our lives. All because a girl lied, now we have to live that lie everyday.

I hate lying. It is the thing I find most ugly in this world. Lies have caused so much hurt and pain in my life. And now I have to tell my son that he has to lie. How can I teach him about O&H when I have to tell him to lie? How will he ever become an honest man if he has to live a lie?

I don't even know what to do with all of this anger. How can our "justice" system force people to be dishonest or go to jail? I don't even know how to live in a country that operates under a system like that anymore.

Help! I am just so mad.

I can't help, writer. I just want to say that I am very sorry to hear this.

Writer, I am really sorry to hear about that, it sounds awful. I encourage you to call and speak to one of the group leaders or the probation officer or your attorney. This is so preposterous that it sounds like you either misunderstood what the group member told you, the group member either gave you misinformation or misunderstood himself, or your son is in the wrong place. If he's in the wrong place, you or your attorney can help him find an approved program that's a better fit, right?

There are plenty of ways to truthfully answer "why are you here," without blaming others, if that is what they are looking for. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I remember it, he was a teen who slept with an underage girl that for whatever reason thought she had not given consent. But in going to this class he is learning when and with who relations are appropriate, and when they aren't.

writer, I am so sorry this injustice is being inflicted upon your son. It does not have to be the end of the world, though. It is tragic enough that he has to deal with injustice, it would be more tragic if he allowed it to wreck his life and destroy his attitude. He cannot give an unjust legal system control over his attitude and outlook on life.

Put aside your rage and help this boy deal with his attitude, writer. Tell him that life is not fair but that does not mean you roll over and die. Rather you roll with the punches and move forward. WHAT DOES NOT KILL YOU WILL MAKE YOU STRONGER. So, tell him to stand up and just take it. Do not allow this to tear him down, writer.

I understand what is going on here, and what the court system has done is lump kids like yours in with rapists and other sexual offenders. So this group does not distinguish.

The courts do the same thing with drinking offenses. They will send some silly kid who got an MIP to a CLOSED AA meeting full of chronic alcoholics. What I always do in those instances is send the kids to another room, give them some brochures to read for the entire duration of the meeting and then sign their paper. I DO NOT allow them to attend a closed AA meeting [a violation of the group's anonymity] or treat them as I would an alcoholic.

So please help your boy suck it up and move forward, writer.

My God it sounds surreal, like something out of Gotham city.

I go along with what Mels said, he can't let this own him. Again he is faced with a corrupt system, and from what I know about these things, if you have admitted to it once, or end up in the system, you are considered guilty.

The counsellors beleive they are doing this for his own good, just as the vets here use the 2x4s to bring people around to MB principles. Once in the program all are considered guilty, and they are trying to help.

Like Mel said also, they put hard core sickos in with minor offenders, and sometimes innocent people go to jail. Your son will have to look to people like Nelson Mandela and Paul of Tarsus from the bible, who were also misused by the system.

He is not alone, not any more than a dumb kid who steals a car, and ends up in the system, as the system molds and teachs him at a crucial age of development, and it can twist him.

It is a challange to his character, to survive because of this travesty of justice, but not give into his desire to commit the crime he has been wrongly accused of. He must not give up on what he knows is right, and somehow turn this around for himself.

He must not let them win inside, where it counts.


He will have to do like Mel says, and suck it up, and wait it out.

Thanks for the advice.

There are other groups he could possibly attend, but we can't afford them. They start at $50 a session and go up from there, and he has to attend 100 sessions. The one he's in now is only $15 per session. The attitude of the session leader is that since my son is there under court order, he is necessarily guilty. In order to be a part of this group, he has to admit his guilt. If he won't do that, he is removed from the group and the group leader reports his unwillingness to cooperate to his probation officer, who will find him in violation of probation and send him back to jail.

It's going to be hard to walk the line between telling my son that the system is unfair, but he has to play by the rules anyway, and instilling in him that telling the truth is always the right thing to do. I'm trying to walk that line as best I can.

Luckily, we were out visiting with my mom when the incident happened, so we weren't terribly far away. My son rode his bike to the meeting from my MIL's house (where he's staying so he can work) and my H went out and picked him up after the meeting and brought him to my mom's house. We talked to him and he seemed to be in much better spirits after that. He's going to try to do 4 sessions a week and get through this as quickly as possible.

I didn't let my son know how angry I was. I really got angry after we'd dropped him off at my MIL's house and started back home. The injustice of this situation is just horrendous. I wanted to call the session leader and talk to him myself, but I was advised not to do this as it could make things worse. I could call my son's probation officer, but my son doesn't like his new probation officer out there at all. He said the probation officer got very mad at him the first time they met because he wouldn't admit that he was guilty. It's a shame, because the probation officer he had out here right after he got out of juvenile hall was great. I wish we could bring him back here, but the situation with our house isn't settled yet and I don't know if they would let him switch his probation again so soon. Plus, there isn't much work out here and he's required to be working while he's on probation.

I think I just need some help dealing with all this anger I'm feeling. I'd like to talk to someone. Not sure who. We just don't have the money for counseling right now.

Look for a beat down inner city free crisis counselor, they have seen it all. Maybe they know some way to help, but at least you will have some profession objective support.

As far as the probation officer goes, they don't care what the truth is that hasn't been revealed in court. Its thier job to support the courts decision, and carry out the discipline. Some of them can be pretty nasty also.

Im sure that in time your son will have learned to avoid sympathys to people like that girl he was with, and be able to cut through the bullcrap, seeing where it leads to. He will become a wiser young man.

I am so sorry writer. Ugh. it is so frustrating to see a teen who just....made some bad choices being treated like scum. because that is such a terrible way to try to "help" a teen. Man, it's really bad when they mess with our babies, isn't it?

Thanks Tawanda.

I get very nasty when someone messes with my kids. Think momma lion.