Stretch - YOU'RE DOING JUST FINE! There's going to be ups and downs and let's face it, you're just on a dip. Vent here, take a walk, lift weights, go for a jog, etc. Burn off the excess energy. Don't undo all the hard work you've done. Hang in there!

PS: There's nothing that says you have to do this another 4 months. Just be sure that it's the right decision to stop. Consider it another line in the sand.

Sorry to hear that stretch, you'll be ok though.

Having one of those evenings as well, must be contagious?

How about we both do what Andy advised---don't undo all the hard work already done.

Thanks guys. She is sitting over there and lovely. Just need a hug.

....um, then go give her a hug, then. Might help.

Stretch, as things settle in, this route might close off to you.

Whatever it is she is doing, at this point she is ignoring your pain and anger and still doing some foggy-style thinking and acting.

Once that clears, she is going to start reading your downs, and it is going to be a good idea then to have a strategy to be O&H with your FWW and avoid AO/DJ/SD at all costs.

It's difficult as h(*&, I know. I still haven't figured it out.

But, trust me, if you are pushing her for honesty, your lack of honesty will be something to piss her off.


So, reflect on that; how can I effectively communicate without resulting to Love Busters? When the subject of my low is something we no longer talk about?

Chin up! It's a marathon!

someone correct me if I'm wrong, but plan A doesn't mean swallowing things you are angry about, it just means avoiding presenting them in LB way.

Stretch, no one is ever going to be the perfect husband. Don't be so hard on yourself. SHe might even be picking on you BECAUSE you did so well. My wife has been known to do that.

No hug. Her body language in bed was like, leave me alone. Maybe not in a mean way. I am learning she just needs to shut down. Being responsible for giving hubby affection late and end of day is just too much for a tired mom.

I just wanted one relaxed, energizing hug and a kiss goodnight. I like to hold her hand or place a hand on her back while we fall asleep. But right now I think she sees it as one more responsibilty for busy mom at end of day. Hubby's need for affection (my top EN) or Hubby's possessive or need to go to bed thinking its all gonna be all right. Security?

Ok. I am placing thoughts in her head. And I should follow HHH advice to give honesty about my low.

Good point, HHH. It is pretty hard to do, especially when you're in a lousy mood to begin with. Catch-22 maybe?

We did talk this morning. She was distant but I asked what was on her mind.

Her: "I know you want my affection. But I can't always be there to comfort you with affection. I choose when I want to cuddle, hug, or kiss."
Me: "I want to know what's on your mind actually. I want you to share and not be closed off. And yes... a hug and a kiss goodnight means a lot to me."
Her: "Ten years ago I remember you telling me, 'I am not like one of your girlfriends, I can't do all these feelings and stuff.'"
Me: "I am so sorry."
Her: "I know you are sorry, but I can't turn it on easily now. I know you want a different realationship now but I can't just turn it on after blocking you for ten years. And I know that the rejection really hurts you right now."
Me: "You are fighting this so hard, fighting the relationship, pushing me away. I think you are afraid of what happens when we get to recovery. You will then face all the pain, remorse and guilt for the A. And also, you will have to let go of me being the excuse for all unhappiness, low self-esteem and depression."
Me again: "That's as much tough stuff as I am going to say. I am going back to jus

We did talk this morning. She was distant but I asked what was on her mind.

Her: "I know you want my affection. But I can't always be there to comfort you with affection. I choose when I want to cuddle, hug, or kiss."
Me: "I want to know what's on your mind actually. I want you to share and not be closed off. And yes... a hug and a kiss goodnight means a lot to me."
Her: "Ten years ago I remember you telling me, 'I am not like one of your girlfriends, I can't do all these feelings and stuff.'"
Me: "I am so sorry."
Her: "I know you are sorry, but I can't turn it on easily now. I know you want a different realationship now but I can't just turn it on after blocking you for ten years. And I know that the rejection really hurts you right now."
Me: "You are fighting this so hard, fighting the relationship, pushing me away. I think you are afraid of what happens when we get to recovery. You will then face all the pain, remorse and guilt for the A. And also, you will have to let go of me being the excuse for all unhappiness, low self-esteem and depression."
Me again: "That's as much tough stuff as I am going to say. I a

Did your post get cut off?

Wow, sounds just like a conversation me and my wife had the other day. It sounds like she really opened up to you and understands how it is affecting you. But (I know) getting her to actually stop the hurtful behavior is the hard part.

Several times my wife would say "I just don't want to keep hurting you" and I'd say, "Well just stop it then! It's like someone shooting me repeatedly in the foot and apologizing every time they pull the trigger. After a while, it gets kind of old."

In the last sentence of your conversation--"You are fighting this so hard..." How did she react to that? Believe me, I understand your frustration, but would guess that came across as a LB for her (DJ?) or that you were trying to educate her.

Did she shut down after that?

Maybe rephrase it to "I feel like you're pushing me away and I don't understand why. Could you help me with that?"

For me, it's allowing myself to be vulnerable again with my wife that is proving difficult.

Stretch and NW8900 - the very fact that you can have these types of conversations with your WWs should give you some hope. I understand there's also a lot of risk there too, but it sounds like there's an honest connection of some kind.

NW8900 -
I think it did come across as a LB. We both do that a lot. ie. trying to educate the other one. I get a ton of that incoming fire and so does she. And I am less careful and thought out with my words than her.
Hers have the added LB of angry outbursts sometimes.

Dangit, I knew I stepped too far. But I retyped the whole conversation and I am hoping to go back and review it with her if she'll let us.

We are having good conversations. Dealing with it the best we can. Its hard. Lots of other things going on in our lives. Funerals. Mother with pneumonia Sat night (very, very intense and scary) But we are here together for each other and our children and extended family. I hope that really means something to her. It means a lot to me.

No, I cannot "educate" her. So much of what I read makes so much sense. i just want her to read it and understand it too. But that's DJ education, isn't it?

Yeah, it's quite the catch-22 sometimes. Our counselor told us that we (my wife and I) were the most insidious people he had seen in a long time. We don't yell or shout, but quietly take little jabs at each other and know just what to say and how to say it.

By all means, revisit the conversation with your wife--she still remembers it, I guarantee you.

Be empathetic, ask her if your last comments made it sound as though you were trying to educate her and make her feel like she couldn't form a thought or opinion for herself. Apologize if it did.

You might add that you appreciated her telling you that she sees that she hurt you. Ask if her saying that was something she was hesistant to do...not knowing what your reaction would be.

For instance, my wife usually hesitates telling me things that will hurt because I tend to then try to overanalyize, educate her, critique, respond and defend myself. This causes her to shut down, to quit talking because I'm not listening, which further aggravates the situation because I then think "WTF, she started all this and now isn't talking or listening to what I have to say? Am I talking to myself, it's disrespectful"

Put yourself in her shoes, see how you would feel, and then tell her what you think you'd feel. Ask if that's what she is feeling.

Food for thought, maybe some of that will be of use

Well, just say "Here's what I've read and here's what this doctor says about ____. I think he means this ____. What do you think?"

Then you've presented the info, given your opinion and asked hers without trying to put words into her mouth.

Stretch,
I have been a SAHM to 4 beautiful children for almost 18 years. I can tell you it isn't for every body. You do have times were you feel unappreciated and times where you feel like you do the same thing over and over. I used to tell my WH that he gets atta boys from his co-workers, he gets a pay check, he gets reviews. You know, a pat on the back for a job well done. I get to clean the kitchen only to have it messed up in an hour. And don't get me started on clogged toilets!

The best gift I ever got from my now WH was a review of sorts. It was incredibly thoughtful. He had listed attributes and gave me a score of 1-5. He wrote well thought out comments for each. Here are the categories.
Communication
Love
Devotion
Compassion
understanding
non-judging
work ethic
Then results and summary.
As you can tell I still have it and treasure it. Do you think your wife would like something like that. Something in writing that expresses exactly what she does and how you view it? Not just a "the house looks great" general comment?

Maybe I should make a copy and send it to my now WH.

Ick! Like I said, I have been a SAHM for almost 18 years and I didn't have an affair. No excuses, period.

Frustrated so often like I don't have a chance.

She picks apart every action and interaction throughout the week. I need to vent because I don't feel I get credit for doing anything. I am jumping through hoops now. Whatever she says I just do it without any questions. I raised some doubt on Sunday morning, just asked, "Well I don't want to do that and I think neither do the kids." And she said, "It swhat I want you to do." So I did. But because I raised a doubt and asked to make sure its a big deal. She is so proud of herself for sticking up. She should just ask me to do something and I should never disagree.

Am I being a doormat? Probably.

I have a stockpile now of things throughout the week that make me sad, angry, frustrated. Where can I find my voice. Heck, we can't even go back and deal with the Affair.

Then stop and walk away for a little while.

She's managed to twist it back on you and let me tell you - she won't stop.

Sacrifice, doing things you hate for the benefit of your spouse - even at this time - is not good. You are modeling a behavior that you can't continue indefinitely.

Knock it off.