Mr. W.

I totally see where you are coming from. Thank-you

Anyone and Everyone,

Didn't have a good day yesterday! Not really surprised by the ups and downs but that in the past three weeks since d-day I have gotten very little sleep. In fact I have started to develop panic attacks!! During the night out of nowhere I get the exact same feeling that I did when I found the information regarding the A. I am going to the DR. to hopefully get something to help me. Never in my life have I experienced something that rocks me to the core like this.

My WW and I talked a great deal yesterday and she is having (I think withdrawal) a hard time coming to grips that her overall life might have to encounter some BIG changes! She totally feels that she has to give up her "Being" in order to follow the mb principles. What I mean is that she feels that everything she loves to do will be taken away from her. I believe that each person needs personal space and I told her that when I feel secure enough in our marriage it is possible that bigger boundaries probably could be made as long as the marriage is the top priority.

I know we are early in this process-but we both question if each other will be able to become the true loves of our lives. As I feel that right now she isn't trying to do enough to help me heal and in her eyes she feels that she has to give up everything in order to do that. Are these normal feelings????

Help Please!

Hi there innerstrength,

I had the same thing as you in the beginning, I would wake up from a dream and be sweating, talking in my sleep, I tried sleeping pills and gravol to help me stay asleep.........
I agree it was like when you lose someone to death, very devastating to say the least. No control.............it took about a month to feel a bit better......
Everything you speak about is normal, the closer you guys get the less of a burden it will be to her to give things up, she will also not need those very things. She will want to be in the marriage instead of doing the things she thinks are important now..........just work on spending quality time together, conversation and filling each other's emotionally needs, the rest with time will fall into place.........
Hang in there.

Well, your marriage won't recover with attitudes like this:


That is like saying that you need to be secure enough to go drunk driving. Now, unless you are as good a drunk driver as ME, you are probably headed for disaster. It was a lack of boundaries that led to her affair and unless she develops better boundaries, she is headed for another affair. Boundaries are not something you just do for awhile, you do them as long as you want to protect your marriage from an affair. It is not lack of trust that ruins marriages, but a lack of boundaries.

Married people don't need "space" if they have a good marriage. And if she needs some "space" then clean out a corner of your garage and let her go out there to have some "space."


She is what Dr Harley calls a FREELOADER:

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.

Buyers believe We are together for life.

Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.

Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.

Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.

Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.

Buyers believe Criticism indicates a need for change.

Renters believe Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.

Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.

Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.

Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary.

Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

Thank you for your responses!

In our conversation we both also talked about what certain qualities that we felt each lacked that has brought about us not being connected. I know I can meet her EN's but how do I become more adventurous and have more fun with her because she says that she doesn't have fun with me because I'm uptight. Which I am-I'm a teacher/coach/A.D.-but I also steer wrestler which doesn't include her so I do have a screw loose. How can I become the person she wants but doesn't have those qualities but can meet those needs??? I can meet her needs but I don't have those extra qualities? The OM was adventurous and crazy and I asked her then why wasn't that enough to keep you there? She really had to think about that and really couldn't give me a good answer. I really think she liked the independent lifestyle. He never did give a rats A## about her and never met her EN's (her words). I know the independent lifestyle has to go!!!! She knows she has to make radical changes but is weighing the cost.

So what I'm trying to get to is that by meeting the EN's of my spouse but not having those extra qualities that she feels she needs will that still get us to where we need to be? Or through this process will those qualities of not being frickin nutty come not to matter and security and love take its place?

I'm sorry about jumping around haven't slept much in the past 3 weeks!!!!

Easy! You just DO IT! There is an RC questionaire that you both can take to see what else is out there that might be fun for you both! It's really crucial that you begin spending your most enjoyable time together. When you do that, she will get over "losing herself".


You need to either find something else to do, or find a way to include her in this that she is enthusiastic about. Those are your only two options and trust me...if you do one of those, you BOTH will be happy!


Of course she did, it meant she didn't have to consider your feelings at all. This independent lifestyle (called Independent Behavior/IB around here) also led to her AFFAIR.


She's foggy. She doesn't know what she needs. If you ignore these comments and work the program these issues will disappear.

My H had many of the same complaints as your WW. I've been firm about using the concepts here and he will be the first to tell you that he is happier now than he's ever been.

She needs to stop over thinking everything and ACT instead. Feelings follow actions so this is the quickest way for her to stop feeling sorry for herself.

I am a FWW and those feelings are pretty normal. It sounds like she is exploring them in a healthy manner, with you rather than internalizing them. This is good. Be her rock.

Don't promise her more freedom down the road, instead, promise to work to make your marriage so fulfilling she won't long for it.

She is frantically thinking of every possible scenario that will ever happen and what she will hypothetically be givng up...listen a little but don't let her wallow in it. I can tell you, much of that isn't really an issue. For example, my BH absolutely forbid me to have contact with anyone who may speak to OM. I was devastated...this included good friends that I have know for over 20 years!.....what about all the hypothetical get togethers I would miss and the family vacations I imagined???? Guess what? They have not attempted contact in over 18 months. Tentative plans we had made prior to d day, never came up. Mutual acquaintances aren't in much contact either. I am not missing much. That isn't to say some of this isn't hard, there are people I miss and things I can't do (reunions, parties etc.) but my LIFE is very fulfilled and I find those events aren't the end all be all of my existence as I once imagined.

I agree she is still foggy. Just let her know you want to work together and it will get better. Live and enjoy today.

MF.
Thank you so much for that. I NEEDED TO HEAR THAT! Another question I would like to ask you is that she doesn't enjoy going with me to all the rodeos that I go to and I am willing to cut as much of that out as needed or all together for our marriage but in the marriage that you are in now is there any room for activities that doesn't include your spouse that you do? Are you glued at the Hip?? If she is alright with me going to a rodeo do I go without her??? AS long as it follows the policy of joint agreement??? Do I let her go to Dallas for a boutique opening without me??

SD.53

Again thank you--You guys have no idea how I needed to hear that today!!

It is absolutely amazing the highs and lows I have felt. I have lost a great deal in my life but nothing compares to this feeling. I keep telling myself it always can be worse and that there are people right now are going through worse sh## than me! I am thankful for you people who get me back on track!

Innerstrength,

I think once your marriage is back on track and you two have established the policy of joint agreement on things like that you will feel more comfortable doing your own thing. Limiting the time maybe, no over nights, things like that and never with anyone of the opposite sex or ever putting yourself in any kind of position to have something inappropriate happen, that goes for both of you.........
It takes time but you will learn slowly what works and what doesn't, right now forget all the extra interests and just focus on the marriage and the quality time you two should be spending together.............

JT.

I totally agree. I just need to get better at not thinking about the "what ifs" and concentrate on today and my marriage. Great advice--thank-you

Thank you for this illustration, SD.

The truth is, IS, that not only are opposite sex friends an enemy of marriage, but same sex friends can be very much as well.

Any friend who would promote independent behavior or any other Love Busting behavior is no friend of the marriage - and in that case, no friend at all.

It's grief, and a tremendous sense of loss.

"One should rather die than be betrayed. There is no deceit in death. It delivers precisely what it has promised. Betrayal, though ... betrayal is the willful slaughter of hope."

The W you once know was murdered, and someone else is standing in front of you in her body. The future you had, your hopes and dreams, you illusions... they were all slaughtered.

THAT is a tremendous loss.

If and only if you meet your UA time each week, and you POJA doing something alone with NO ~ Z.E.R.O ~ resentment, then alone activities once in a while are ok.

What most of us have found, and I suspect you will find too, is that you don't WANT to do these activities alone very often BECAUSE your spouse becomes your most enjoyable RC partner. Here is an example:

My H is sometimes invited to go have a beer or two with some friends/neighbors. He's told me "I only want to go if you are there ~ if you don't want to come, I'd rather stay home with you." See the difference?

I wouldn't have believed it either if we didn't LIVE this way. We've learned to have fun together and it's often not as much fun if we are alone.

See above. Also, it's crucial that you both understand POJA ~ which states "Do not do anything without your spouse's enthusiastic agreement."

The italicized part is uber-important and it's tough, especially in the beginning when learning to POJA. It's common for a person to "agree" to a POJA situation without being "enthusiastic" about it (this can happen for a few reasons ~ fear of the spouse being upset if you say "no, I'm not ok with that", or thinking you want to sacrifice in order to "get something" later", etc.).

You both must be Radically Honest (RH) about your feelings when POJAing. That is tougher than you think but it's important.

Advice needed: I have a (family)-(cousin) wedding in Dallas coming up in April and my wife and I are trying to decide if it would be best for us to go to this wedding with our kids and spend a weekend away from home or would it be better at this point in time to use those funds on a little getaway just for us. I know at the wedding we won't be able to spend any UA. Your thoughts???

InnerStrength,
I think right now you need to concentrate on the two of you, a wedding is a great place to think of commitment and family but you are right if the kids are with you less time for just the two of you..........
I think if you planned time together in a positive way it would be okay, there is the dancing part of a wedding that is a very intimate thing between couples.....the ceremony itself and the thought of a new life together for the new couple always tugs at one's heart strings.........
I think as long as you spend time together and keep meeting each others emotional needs it also can be good, a little private getaway is also good, just the two of you...
So glad things are getting better and you are looking towards the future

POJA it with your wife, but personally, in your shoes, my wife & I would make a wrong turn in Albuquerque & end up alone together in Ft.Lauderdale, sans kids.

UA time = gold.

I'd say when it comes to your marriage and the current state of it I would skip the wedding (send a card with some cash or something) and fill out inventories from the website and engage in a getaway like everyone else is saying.