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Ok, 2 hours of UA last week. 1st hour stressful, next 15 minutes- an argument, last 45 minutes stressful. Good times that UA is! wink

Last I suggested the MB weekend away to watch the vids at a hotel, he was not thrilled, but didn't say an outright no either. He just said he didn't think he'd want to do that, but maybe. I asked him to get back to me. He hasn't yet. I can ask again.

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Originally Posted by Autumn Day
Last I suggested the MB weekend away to watch the vids at a hotel, he was not thrilled, but didn't say an outright no either. He just said he didn't think he'd want to do that, but maybe. I asked him to get back to me. He hasn't yet. I can ask again.

I think you should ask again. Really play up the weekend away without the kids part. I don't think my H would ever so no to that.

It's a good sign that he didn't flat out refuse, but don't leave it up to him to bring it up. He probably won't, but that doesn't mean he won't do it if you bring it up first.


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Originally Posted by writer1
Originally Posted by Autumn Day
Last I suggested the MB weekend away to watch the vids at a hotel, he was not thrilled, but didn't say an outright no either. He just said he didn't think he'd want to do that, but maybe. I asked him to get back to me. He hasn't yet. I can ask again.

I think you should ask again. Really play up the weekend away without the kids part. I don't think my H would ever so no to that.

It's a good sign that he didn't flat out refuse, but don't leave it up to him to bring it up. He probably won't, but that doesn't mean he won't do it if you bring it up first.

ITA.

AD, maybe you could build it up by working on maximizing whatever UA time you can grab, take the lead; "I would like to spend some time with just you, and I would rather do that than anything else, can we go hang out for a bit?"

Get some really, really good time in there, make an entire weekend together look as attractive as possible... for BOTH OF YOU.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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AD,

I think that your perspective on spending time together is off-target.

The idea of doing things together is to build the relationship - it is not for "sacrificing" anything. The concept is that the product of spending time together doing things that are fun results in building the relationship, and the desire to do more fun things together; the cycle is intended to repeat because both spouses are mutually gratified. Nobody is meant to feel as though they are sacrificing anything, and really nobody is. What the couple is doing is working together, as a team, to create and build something

instead of sitting on the couch for "hours" staring at computers or i-phones

and spending time doing basically nothing

when they COULD be otherwise engaged in something TOGETHER.


Giving of yourself in a mutually loving way is not sacrifice.


I scratch my head and wonder why you are willing to sit by him on a couch and play on your computer, while he plays on his i-phone, and you don't take advantage of the opportunity to say, "Hey, just for kicks, let's do something we haven't done in 20 years....let's walk around the block and see what the air smells like out there. Afterwards, let's just have a glass of wine and talk about ___________." You can fill in the blank with anything you can think of - or nothing at all....as long as it is NOT about the relationship, the affair, his faults, your unhappiness, or anything negative.

Just LET HIM IN THE DOOR.


SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
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Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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SB~ I get how doing things together builds a relationship. I do. Still, asking him to give up or even cut back a lot his favorite things in life-- would be him sacrificing, and same with my interests. For him especially, he would be so miserable that it would just make life worse for us.

I walk around the block ALL the time, (actually walk, run and bike miles)... he has NO interest in it. I gave up asking a long time ago. Again, one of my interests that he poo-poo's, right up there with political activism. I can't even get him to buy himself a bike. Forget it then... he can be a couch potato, but I refuse that lifestyle.

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I don't think he wants in the door, except on HIS terms. Meaning, I give up any semblance of autumn day.

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Originally Posted by Autumn Day
I don't think he wants in the door, except on HIS terms. Meaning, I give up any semblance of autumn day.
That is a DJ, Autumn Day. The truth is you don't know what he will say or what he is thinking. Just like you are surprised that he seems to want to be around you now. One step at a time. Put the laptop down and ask him to play a game with you. Cards, board game or even watch a movie together without electronics in front of your faces. Try small bites of time at first and increase it over time. I think if my H and I can find love for each other again, so can you.


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I am drawing from my knowledge of 27 years of seeing and hearing his responses. What I think his responses will be are based on historical facts, not from a negative attitude. Yet everything I say on here is a DJ or LB.

I asked him last night why he's hanging around me more often here lately. (where we sit when I'm on laptop and he on his iPhone is our bed, not couch) He said, "I'm not hanging around YOU, it's my bed too, and I can sit here too."

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Originally Posted by Autumn Day
I don't think he wants in the door, except on HIS terms. Meaning, I give up any semblance of autumn day.


Giving up independence, for independence? How tragic.

dramaqueen

This is a recent post, a BH talking about his still-foggy WW:

Quote
My WW and I talked a great deal yesterday and she is having (I think withdrawal) a hard time coming to grips that her overall life might have to encounter some BIG changes! She totally feels that she has to give up her "Being" in order to follow the mb principles. What I mean is that she feels that everything she loves to do will be taken away from her.



Hmmm....


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by Autumn Day
I am drawing from my knowledge of 27 years of seeing and hearing his responses. What I think his responses will be are based on historical facts, not from a negative attitude. Yet everything I say on here is a DJ or LB.

I asked him last night why he's hanging around me more often here lately. (where we sit when I'm on laptop and he on his iPhone is our bed, not couch) He said, "I'm not hanging around YOU, it's my bed too, and I can sit here too."


Imagine that, you question his motives rather than making the most of an opportunity.

Hmmm...


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Originally Posted by Autumn Day
I am drawing from my knowledge of 27 years of seeing and hearing his responses. What I think his responses will be are based on historical facts, not from a negative attitude. Yet everything I say on here is a DJ or LB.

I asked him last night why he's hanging around me more often here lately. (where we sit when I'm on laptop and he on his iPhone is our bed, not couch) He said, "I'm not hanging around YOU, it's my bed too, and I can sit here too."


Imagine that, you question his motives rather than making the most of an opportunity.

Hmmm...

I agree. How did you expect him to react after you asked him "Why are you hanging around me all the time?" I think a question like that would make most people feel defensive, especially when your H probably knows you don't like being around him.


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AD, seems like I'm coming across harsh again... but it seems like you are stuck in a circle here....


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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HHH- You're not too harsh.

Writer- I wasn't complaining about his response. It's exactly what I expected. That's what I'm trying to tell you all-- I know what his responses will be. He's not hanging around because he wants to be near me, or be intimate, or whatever. Excuse the choice of verbiage... it's just a saying. I didn't ask it in a mean, uppity, or accusatory way.


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HHH- I think there is a difference in giving up my "identity" for a good marriage, (I could do that), and giving up my "identity" for his "identity". Do you know what I mean? It appears to me, that he wants a marriage the way HE wants it only.

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Originally Posted by Autumn Day
Writer- I wasn't complaining about his response. It's exactly what I expected. That's what I'm trying to tell you all-- I know what his responses will be. He's not hanging around because he wants to be near me, or be intimate, or whatever. Excuse the choice of verbiage... it's just a saying. I didn't ask it in a mean, uppity, or accusatory way.

I didn't mean to imply that you did say it in a mean way.

Right now, there is a distance between you and your H. I'm sure he is keenly aware of this distance. Maybe he really would like to close that distance, but he just doesn't know how any more than you do.

Maybe he's sitting next to you because he really wants to be close to you, but he makes snide remarks about that not being the case to protect himself in case he is rejected in his efforts to get close to you. Many times, people use sarcasm to protect themselves in situations where they feel as though they might get hurt.

Maybe next time he sits next to you, you could reach out and touch his hand or his leg and say something like, "I really like it when you sit next to me." Then leave it at that and see what happens.

I think right now your H doesn't feel safe trying to get close to you, and because of that, he's putting up walls (sarcasm and snide remarks) to protect himself. You need to help him start letting down those walls.


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hi AD,

I find it interesting that you don't think your H can change. Do you think you can change? Do you think you have changed since your affair? Do you see things differently now?

I know the answers but I find it interesting that you don't think he can change. People change when they need to and that means one of two things as my late father used to say: fear or greed.

He will change if he fears you and the consequences of not changing OR he will change if it means that he can see he would be happier. You offer neither option to him.

Frankly, you can deny all you want but your question was worded in a way to get the response you got and you know it. You attacked him and he defended.

AD, you and I have posted to one another over many years now. I never felt you were gutless or mean, but frankly your actions suggest you are both. Your H may not change, but you do not change people by attacking, you change them by changing your approach. You have used the same approach for 27 years and you have gotten the same results.

I do remember you were worried about your youngest child and how your H would respond and he responded that "the child probably saved the marriage, he loves that child." If you will start to change your approach, I think your H will change.

But, you MUST stop attacking him. You must start to change your approach and perspective about him and yourself. You must become someone he desires to be around and NEEDS to be around.

You are just barely 1/2 the way to 50 years married girl, you have time to have the marriage you always wanted. You have children, will have grandchildren, and both of you love your children. You have the basis to build on, but YOU must change your approach.

Please think about this and let's discuss it.

God Bless,

JL

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Originally Posted by Autumn Day
HHH- I think there is a difference in giving up my "identity" for a good marriage, (I could do that), and giving up my "identity" for his "identity". Do you know what I mean? It appears to me, that he wants a marriage the way HE wants it only.


Do you want to know why my FWW's infidelity crushed me so badly?

Because my marriage IS my identity. My sin was that one little thing that I did keep to myself, and allowed to take over once I became withdrawn: gaming.

Now, I am still a gamer, but if my FWW is home, I would much rather spend time with her than on any game. I have no interest in it versus her, because she is the more attractive choice now that she has learned to meet my needs and avoid love busters.


Just food for thought...


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by Autumn Day
HHH- You're not too harsh.

Writer- I wasn't complaining about his response. It's exactly what I expected. That's what I'm trying to tell you all-- I know what his responses will be. He's not hanging around because he wants to be near me, or be intimate, or whatever. Excuse the choice of verbiage... it's just a saying. I didn't ask it in a mean, uppity, or accusatory way.

Basically just rephrasing what JL said:

If you know what his responses to your questions will be, maybe it's time to change the questions?


Me: FWW 31
DH: BH 32
M: April 2001
DSs b 2005 and 2006
EA began summer~autumn 2009, D-Day1 Feb 2010
EA went uglier until NC-letters mid-June 2010
Discovering MB site end of June 2010
D-Day 2 Jul 7, 2010, followed by 2 other D-days (Jul 14, 2010, and Jul 31?, 2010)

Falling back in love - or so it seemed...
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Originally Posted by Just Learning
Frankly, you can deny all you want but your question was worded in a way to get the response you got and you know it. You attacked him and he defended.

Yes, I admit it was mean and attacking- now that I consider the fact I could have said something like, "Gosh, it's awfully sweet of you to join me after dinner these past few weeks, thank you." However, it was nicer than what I actually wanted to ask him, which was- "why have you been stalking me?" I quickly decided to dial it back though, because I knew that question would make him downright angry. Honestly though, after so many years of spending our evenings after dinner in two separate rooms, and now he sits by me- it feels like stalking, especially when we're not engaging in conversation. This has been going on for a few weeks, (ever since the tv in his bedroom died), but this was the first I inquired as to why.

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Originally Posted by Autumn Day
Originally Posted by Just Learning
Frankly, you can deny all you want but your question was worded in a way to get the response you got and you know it. You attacked him and he defended.

Yes, I admit it was mean and attacking- now that I consider the fact I could have said something like, "Gosh, it's awfully sweet of you to join me after dinner these past few weeks, thank you." However, it was nicer than what I actually wanted to ask him, which was- "why have you been stalking me?" I quickly decided to dial it back though, because I knew that question would make him downright angry. Honestly though, after so many years of spending our evenings after dinner in two separate rooms, and now he sits by me- it feels like stalking, especially when we're not engaging in conversation. This has been going on for a few weeks, (ever since the tv in his bedroom died), but this was the first I inquired as to why.

So, back to your thread title; by taking the time, the opportunity he is giving you to talk to him.

Seriously, AD. It can be so simple; "So, how was your day? Anything interesting?" "Tell me about what you are reading."

FGS, it can be as easy as small talk, it's how you behave when you are dating, it's how you talk to your friends... talk to your H.

Early on, FWW and I spent night after night telling each other our life stories... even though we already knew them. We've been together since we were 17.

JUST. TALK.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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