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Originally Posted By: Soolee
I think you're probably doing the right thing by having him go to counseling. Does your XH know that you are taking him to these sessions? Wondering how he reacted.

Is your son letting the counselor know how his times with his dad and OW are going?


Today was ds's first visit. I haven't told his dad yet....but will have to. I want to wait until after ds's weekend with his dad.

I think today's visit with counselor was counselor getting general feel. He had ds draw a picture and then tell counselor about it. He drew a pic of a girl and then told the counselor she was bored. That there was nothing around her...nothing to do.

Counselor did some basic testing....math, spelling, memory, reading.

He asked ds if he had three wishes what would they be. Ds said, For my family to have immortality, to be able to breathe under water and to fly/levitate like Superman. smile

Then when ds was telling me about it he said he felt really bad for the first wish. ?? He doesn't know why he feels bad for that wish.

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Then when ds was telling me about it he said he felt really bad for the first wish. ?? He doesn't know why he feels bad for that wish.

Maybe he thinks that with more time, things can be fixed. Do you think he still holds out hope that the family could somehow be intact again?

Maybe he is afraid of someday being all alone.

You know, SW...I think it's hard for any kid going through divorce, but it could be especially hard if that child has other issues that were already there. I think I would ask the doctor on the side what sort of things they are looking for.


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This situation below is ugly, SW. I feel so bad for you and your son having to be in that environment. I wish I had something to offer, but I don't. All I can say is that your little guy sure does need your strength and consistency because his father clearly has none.
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Quote:
Then Wed for visitation with his dad...bad bad bad again. He spent 1 1/2 hours of his 3 hour visitation in his room in a corner for refusing to apologize to OW and then for telling her to shut up he wasn't talking to her and then refusing to apologize for that. His dad wouldn't let him eat until he apologized. His dad threatened to give all ds's toys to OW's son. Ds told his dad, 'I will apologize because you strike fear in my heart, but I am not really sorry.' To which OW says, (with a smile/smirk) 'Your mom told you to say that didn't she?' To which ds says to her, 'Shut up OW, I'm not talking to you!'

Then XH takes ds to his room with OW calling after him, 'Spank him!'

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Originally Posted By: Soolee
Then when ds was telling me about it he said he felt really bad for the first wish. ?? He doesn't know why he feels bad for that wish.

Maybe he thinks that with more time, things can be fixed. Do you think he still holds out hope that the family could somehow be intact again?

Maybe he is afraid of someday being all alone.

You know, SW...I think it's hard for any kid going through divorce, but it could be especially hard if that child has other issues that were already there. I think I would ask the doctor on the side what sort of things they are looking for.



Ds will have another session and then I will meet privately with counselor a week after that. I will be able to ask him then what he thinks...but not sure how much I will get out of him since they say it is confidential for the kids...?? Anyone have any experience with how the counselor can guide me in helping ds without letting me know what all ds said?

I didn't grill ds at all but he has been pretty free with what went on. He has worried all morning that he did the session 'wrong' somehow. And he wanted a big hug because he is so sad that he is such a baby he has to go to the counselor.

Soolee what sort of things are you thinking might have already been present with the info I've posted?

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SW...I'm not a medical professional, and in the end that will have to be something that your doctors talk to you about after interviewing your son and doing their own assessments. I would be very careful to discuss anything privately with them.

I think there are a lot of childhood syndromes that can go untreated into adulthood, undiagnosed, when if treated could have made that person's childhood go smoother - dyslexia and ADHD being just two, for example. As a parent, you can drive yourself crazy with worry over possibilities. I think that's why we have professionals to separate the wheat from the chaff.

That being said, I have also experienced situations in health care where you really do have to be your own advocate. Doctors don't know everything, and they can get it wrong or overlook something. I've had it happen several times.

I think if he were my son and there was a history of Bipolar, I'd make darn sure he was screened for that, along with Asperger's. Both of those impact socialization and transitioning capabilities. Other than that, I have nothing.

It could just be how your boy is, his little personality given these trying circumstances, and nothing wrong at all!

What is being done about finding out at what age your son will have a say about visitation? It is unfortunate that OW is coaching your XH on parenting. I think your son's counselor should know about that.


Sooly

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Originally Posted By: Soolee
SW...I'm not a medical professional, and in the end that will have to be something that your doctors talk to you about after interviewing your son and doing their own assessments. I would be very careful to discuss anything privately with them.

I think there are a lot of childhood syndromes that can go untreated into adulthood, undiagnosed, when if treated could have made that person's childhood go smoother - dyslexia and ADHD being just two, for example. As a parent, you can drive yourself crazy with worry over possibilities. I think that's why we have professionals to separate the wheat from the chaff.

That being said, I have also experienced situations in health care where you really do have to be your own advocate. Doctors don't know everything, and they can get it wrong or overlook something. I've had it happen several times.

I think if he were my son and there was a history of Bipolar, I'd make darn sure he was screened for that, along with Asperger's. Both of those impact socialization and transitioning capabilities. Other than that, I have nothing.

It could just be how your boy is, his little personality given these trying circumstances, and nothing wrong at all!

What is being done about finding out at what age your son will have a say about visitation? It is unfortunate that OW is coaching your XH on parenting. I think your son's counselor should know about that.


I will be sure the counselor knows about the OW being involved in my XH's parenting. Makes me sick.


When I met with counselor last week I did tell him about my brother being diagnosed bi-polar....however, I do doubt my brother's diagnosis...I think his drug use from early teen for 20 years triggered or created his issues. And of course one wonders why he went to drugs in the first place, but I don't want to get on that merry go round of thought.

Also, my brother and I do not have the same bio dad...those issues seem to be through his bio dad's side of the family, so I really doubt the genetic component.

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Okay. I thought you said before something about your ex mother in law having had issues, so that was where my line of thinking was.

He is your baby. You know him best. ((SW))


Sooly

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Originally Posted By: Soolee
Okay. I thought you said before something about your ex mother in law having had issues, so that was where my line of thinking was.

He is your baby. You know him best. ((SW))


Ug. I forgot about her. She is indeed CRAZY---my guess NPD. She damaged her children...but hopefully that is not inheritable...

I've been fighting with XH via text all afternoon. Started out me reminding him our written agreement says ds can call either parent any time he wishes.

He is upset with me for poisoning ds against OW. Whatever. As if ds can't see it for what it is on his own. Oh, well, I DID have the nerve to tell ds the truth as to why his dad and I were divorcing.

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SW...If nothing productive is going on with the texts and the discussion is destructive, cut the conversation off. Remember you have the option to detach from the conversation and tell him that you cannot talk at the moment but that you'll be able to talk more in 30 minutes if he wants to call back. Give him a time out, without telling him it's a time out.

It's really hard for someone to fight when they're doing it alone. Thirty minutes will help him regroup. If he starts up again...uh oh...you have to go again. Rinse and repeat.

As for OW, I think a child can hear it once in an age appropriate manner and then for his questions to be answered once but that should be enough. More than that is probably more than a child should shoulder. I don't think children should hear it over and over or be expected to hate the third person. I think children need room to be children, the resilient and forgiving little people that they are, and if we force them to process our own pain over and over, we may be holding up their own healing by making them feel frightened, worried, or guilty.

I think when kids are too young to process a trauma, they should be given the freedom to shelve it until they're older - when they can take it down, examine it, and process it from an adult perspective. If he's asking questions that you've answered 50 times, he may need gentle reminding that he already knows the answer, that it's time to go back to being a kid, that Mom is more than fine with how things turned out.


Sooly

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(meaning your second marriage)


Sooly

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SW...I don't mean that you shouldn't answer new questions, but when he's asking the same questions over and over, and he knows the answer...he is either not being reassured to his satisfaction or he is obsessing, imo.

I would make sure that he knows that he will always be taken care of, will always have you there to take care of him. His clothes will always be bought. He will always have food. He will always have your hugs and kisses, and that his stepfather is eager to be his friend and maybe someday to be like a second dad to him.

It could be, too, that he needs time alone with you, apart from your husband and stepsons, doing things outside the house.

Also, you may have not seen my previous question, but have you looked into at what age your son will begin to have a legal say in whether he sees his biological father or not?

Last edited by Soolee; 03/26/11 09:00 AM.

Sooly

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Quote:
Friend's 4 year old sister had a doll...and ds put a bag over doll's head...


You mean, "put a bag over OW's head"

Quote:
He has worried all morning that he did the session 'wrong' somehow. And he wanted a big hug because he is so sad that he is such a baby he has to go to the counselor.


SW, I am not a medical professional either, but it seems screamingly obvious to me what's going on with your son. But I will not comment further if it's just going to upset you.


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SW...I am sure that you have told your son that lots of grownups talk to counselors too?

I used to be afraid of dolls, to be honest. I only had a few and they could not be in the bedroom with me or I could not sleep...

I wonder if he was just creeped out by the doll like some people are creeped out by clowns, and wanted to cover its face.

Last edited by Soolee; 03/26/11 02:05 PM.

Sooly

"Stop yappin and make it happen."
"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

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Originally Posted By: Soolee
SW...I am sure that you have told your son that lots of grownups talk to counselors too?

I used to be afraid of dolls, to be honest. I only had a few and they could not be in the bedroom with me or I could not sleep...

I wonder if he was just creeped out by the doll like some people are creeped out by clowns, and wanted to cover its face.


Yes I reassured him about the counselor. He went back and forth from acting like he enjoyed it, to being afraid he answered questions wrong. I reassured him all day long, every time he brought it up, that the counselor was just getting to know him and those weren't right or wrong type questions...well, the math/spelling/reading, but I again reassured him it was just to get an idea of where he is academically.

Oh, the doll thing was just two big boys being silly with the little sister's doll. It was nothing. They thought it was funny that they covered her face. The part that upset my son was that his friend told son he would not tell the grown ups that ds put the bag on the dolls head and then IMMEDIATELY did tell us.

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Originally Posted By: Mulan
Quote:
Friend's 4 year old sister had a doll...and ds put a bag over doll's head...


You mean, "put a bag over OW's head"

Quote:
He has worried all morning that he did the session 'wrong' somehow. And he wanted a big hug because he is so sad that he is such a baby he has to go to the counselor.


SW, I am not a medical professional either, but it seems screamingly obvious to me what's going on with your son. But I will not comment further if it's just going to upset you.


I am not going to be upset. I know you have said before that you think I am somehow telling my son that his feelings are wrong. I don't know how to convince you that I am not doing that. It is true that I sometimes think he says one thing and then acts another way. Surely you realize I am capable of keeping my thoughts to myself at those times right?

Or is it something else you have in your mind? I assume it will be something I am doing wrong if you think it will upset me...I don't know. Anyway, go ahead.

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SW, what I want to do is go through your thread and give you my gut reactions to what you are posting. You can use or not, of course, as you wish. I am working today but I will do this as soon as I can.


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Originally Posted By: Mulan
SW, what I want to do is go through your thread and give you my gut reactions to what you are posting. You can use or not, of course, as you wish. I am working today but I will do this as soon as I can.


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Originally Posted By: Soolee
SW...I don't mean that you shouldn't answer new questions, but when he's asking the same questions over and over, and he knows the answer...he is either not being reassured to his satisfaction or he is obsessing, imo.

I would make sure that he knows that he will always be taken care of, will always have you there to take care of him. His clothes will always be bought. He will always have food. He will always have your hugs and kisses, and that his stepfather is eager to be his friend and maybe someday to be like a second dad to him.

It could be, too, that he needs time alone with you, apart from your husband and stepsons, doing things outside the house.

Also, you may have not seen my previous question, but have you looked into at what age your son will begin to have a legal say in whether he sees his biological father or not?


I haven't looked into it. I do remember now that I told ds I would so I need to do that. Well, I looked around on line a lot but can't find a definitive answer. My attorney will know more specifically the judge in our case would feel about it.

I reassured him a lot yesterday. He was exhausted from being up late Thursday (services) and up early Friday for the counselor appt. His dad came to our house to pick up ds's dirt bike and had plans to take him to a friend's house to ride today. About 2 hours before XH got here ds was already saying he didn't want to go. We just hung out yesterday together....had breakfast at a coffee shop and stopped by a couple of stores before coming home and relaxing.

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About 30 minutes after I left, Ds called me from under his bed at his dad's...crying...saying he wants me. I told him to get up and go outside and enjoy the sunshine and maybe watch some tv....and that he would be ok...that he was only making it hard on himself.


Your son has not done any of this to himself. It's the adults here, mostly your XWH and his OW, who are making this hard on him. Son has no choice and he knows this.

Quote:
He also told me earlier that he didn't want OW and her son coming over..I told him he should tell his dad that.


From what you have posted, Son knows he would be severely punished for saying something like this. Why would you tell him to do such a thing? Yes, his father *should* hear this - but you and Son and all the rest of us know what will happen if Son says one word.

I am confused about why you would say this, so I can only imagine how confused Son is. To me, this is leaving him completely unprotected while you encourage him to walk straight into punishment. Why are you not protecting him instead??

Quote:
XH is treating son much the way he always treated me. Bullying, threatening, name calling, belittling.


This is 100% emotional abuse. Again, is there nothing that can be done in court to protect your son from this?

Quote:
This is very hard to watch....very hard line to walk to encourage him to respect his father while not dismissing the very real problems XH has in dealing with ds.


Your XWH's relationship with Son is 100% HIS problem. From what you have posted, you are failing to protect Son from emotional abuse but are insisting on respect for his abuser. I'm confused. I can only imagine how this seems to Son.

Quote:
...and then told him he was going to get an ice cream sandwich from the kitchen and ds couldn't have one. Then he proceeds to eat it in front of ds and say, 'yum, this is good, too bad you can't have one.'


This is utterly sickening. I do not know how you can sit still with your child being subjected to this by adults who are supposed to be caring for him. I couldn't. Call the cops, but that kid is not going back to treatment like that.

Of course he doesn't want to go to his father's house. Who in their right mind *wants* to be subjected to bullying and belittling by someone who is supposed to love them?

Quote:
Then ds got upset and went into his room and hid under the bed (drama)


It bothers me greatly that you dismiss his reaction to bullying and cruelty as "drama". How do you expect him to act? What do you expect him, seriously, to do or say? He will be severely punished over there if he stands up to those two. What choice does he have?

He is sensitive enough to be terribly hurt by his father's actions but strong enough to be angry at the injustice of it all. He's caught in an awful place.

Quote:
...XH goes in and tells ds 'you are being so immature.'


From what you have posted, your XWH has the maturity of a two-year-old and is a sickening example of a father. Sorry, but that's how he's coming across. Your son seems to agree.

Quote:
And then today during the time we sat in the car in XH's driveway ds was crying and telling me he was afraid of his dad.


Do you really think he's just making this up for "drama"? Again, why is this not being taken to court to get something changed here?

It sounds to me like you expect your son to just find some way to deal with this on his own. He is too young, too immature, too sensitive and far too much caught in the middle to be able to deal with any of it on his own.

That leaves you.

Quote:
I do believe in his weird way he loves our son.


Sorry, but what you have posted sounds nothing at all like love. "Control" and "ownership" are not love. Not even close.

And I am wondering why you have so much contact with XWH. Getting an IM for anything that *has* to be arranged regarding your son, and speaking to XWH only in case of the direst emergency, would almost certainly go a long way towards shutting some of this down.

The part of your post where he calls you, in the presence of the homewrecker, about what size clothes Son wears just sounds like a guy flaunting his harem. Again, sickening. Shut it down. Others use an IM and so can you.

Quote:
He said, 'If I ask to call you he will call me a momma's boys.'


What was your response to this?

Quote:
XH NEVER asks me one single thing about ds's schooling. Ever.


There should be ZERO discussion on this. This man is not your husband. That means he's on his own as far as being Son's father and no longer has your help and support. He forfeited that right when he left the marriage.

Again, shut it down. I think this is 90% of the problem. You are only allowing your Son to be crushed more and more in the middle by your keeping in contact with your XWH.

I would recommend:

1) Go back to court and see if you can get, at the very least, supervised visitation on grounds of emotional abuse of your Son by your XWH and his OW. I don't care how much XWH will kick and scream. That is NOT your concern. Your Son is. Do it.

2) Shut down communication between you and XWH. The two of you are DIVORCED. (And you are re-married - ?) If you say you have to stay in communication "for the sake of Son" - well, as somebody said, how's that workin' for ya? And more importantly, how's it workin' for your Son?

3) Immediately look into Parallel Parenting versus "co-parenting". Again: Co-parenting is for Married Couples. You cannot have it both ways. Look what is happening to your son when you try to "co-parent" with a man to whom you are not married and who was happy to blow up your family. It can't be done. For evidence, just look at your Son.

That's the best I got. Just some things to think about. But I'll bet a lot of this can be traced straight back to trying to have a family relationship with a man who is NOT your husband. It never, ever works, no matter what people try to tell you. Be married or be divorced. You cannot have it both ways.


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ITA!!!!!!!!!!!

100%

That poor boy

GET HIM OUT

Your XWH is toxic to you and to your son.

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