Ok, I gotta get stuff done, and quit screwing around on MB, so gonna flesh this out.

I get it. I can't tell you how many times I would be on a dip in the coaster, and I would withdraw... and wish FWW just would GO THE HELL AWAY!!!

Damn you, dragon lady!!!

So, I'd boil over, and AO. And... SHE STILL WOULDN'T GO AWAY!!!!

She did it several times! Damn stubborn woman!


And then I figured... well, she must want me to rage. I'm not going to give her what she wants!


So I'd shut down. AND SHE WAS STILL RIGHT FREAKING THERE!!!

ACK! WHY WON'T YOU GIVE UP!!!! GO AWAY!!!!


You know what she was doing? She was facing the fallout of her decisions. She was standing in the fire that she started.

Know what? I respected her for it. I admired her.

She wasn't going to let me burn alone in the fire she started when she turned her back on me and our M. Ever again.

Think about it.


I'm off to get things together. FWW and I are spending a couple days at a McMenamins ; http://www.mcmenamins.com/Theaters

Good trip for anyone up here in the NW corner of the states!

We've talked about it and she said it makes her feel bad. She says she feels hurt when I won't tell her what's bothering me.

I was surprised that that was her reaction. I figured she wouldn't give a damn.

And deep down I know that is true. It's just getting that instinct to quiet down that has been the toughest part. It's strange knowing what you should be doing and not doing it. Kind of like smoking, I guess. One week without a smoke today! Boy, I really wanted one last night, came within an inch of going to the store but didn't.

That just about sums it up. Makes no freaking sense sometimes, but then I'll do a 180 a few hours later.

Hmm. Well, she did kind of say that that is what she's doing. Kind of strange to see it written by a BS and it makes a little more sense now. The perspective is helpful, thanks for that.

Those theaters look really cool--pizza, beer and a movie. Wish we had something like that down here. Hope y'all have a good time.

It's in a few pages of my thread, around November and December.

I was surprised that when she stood in the fire, and stopped making excuses.

Her own words "I ain't going anywhere, ever again."

A few of them are full out resorts - a few remodeled schools.

The one we are going to was an old social club or something. We got a room 2 nights, 2 dinners, 2 breakfasts, and free frisbee golf in the middle of Oregon wine country for $250.

Started by looking at the theaters...3 bucks for a movie. We get free admission with the stay!

It sounds like a really good deal, might have to see what is like that around here.

And I'll make a mental note to google frisbee golf. You sure that doesn't involve vast quantities of alcohol?

Also called Disc Golf - depending on area of the country.

Some colleges have them and some golf courses will have the baskets set up too.

Good fun!

From your thread (12/02/2010) where you spoke of telling her of your anger, this describes my thinking fairly well:



And this from 12/3, can you elaborate on what she meant? It sounds like what my wife is trying to say, I could use some insight or a different viewpoint.

It looks like it! I swear I've never heard of it and thought it sounded like a college drinking game, but now see they even have a Professional Disc Golf Association (PDGA) for it. Huh. Learn something new every day.

Slightly better day today. Thanks, y'all, for the advice to be patient and work through it.

We talked a bit more about yesterday. I'm really humbled with how hard she is trying to right this. She tells me that she sometimes gets scared when I try to hurry this along, but says she knows I've been carrying this since last summer and she's only really, without a doubt at all, been on board for about a week now.

I said I understand. Our communication is improving by leaps and bounds. Wish we had done this back in 2000. Shoulda coulda.

Tonight she (we) read the chapter on AO's in the LB book. She asked a lot of questions, wanted my opinion on what I thought. It was nice.

I think it's getting close to where I mention this forum. Will hold on the decision until after the LB book is done, but she seems to be getting a lot from it having had a bit of trepidation at the start. She doesn't know I post, and I honestly feel guilty for hiding it. Kind of strange. But, crud, most of my thread mentions keyloggers and the like.

Tonight I set the coffee pot to come on in the morning so she won't have to make it herself. A nice gesture that I think she'll appreciate and not the kind of thing the "old me" would have ever thought of or bothered to do. Kind of nice to do something nice sometimes.

On another random note, we watched that "Secret Millionaire" show the other day where this guy gives away money to deserving causes. In the end, he said that the best thing to do to feel better about yourself (and your life, in general) is to do something good for someone else. Yeah, I can see the truth in that.

NW - About the secret millionaire bit - that's true, about doing something for someone else.

Unfortunately on this board, IMHO all BS are trying to do that for our WS, while they're actively trying to put the knife in our back (or remove other parts of our body) at the same time.

Hey I pasted my wifes emails into my thread. LOL

You just have to erase it is all.

Doing nice things for your spouse is supposed to feel rewarding.

I learned this weekend that humans are by nature self-centered. How do you become "other-centered" when its unnatural? Well, you just do. That's what marriage is supposed to be.

You provide for your spouse and your children before your own needs and she will in turn take care of you.

Its NOT... .NOT a 50/50 relationship. It should be 100/100. You give 100pct and so does she. Its that simple.

When you think of it as 50/50, you will forever be keeping score. It makes your love conditional. ("If he does this...then I will do that...") No, no, no. Just focus on her needs all the time and derive joy in the giving. (Giver / Taker)

SO you started the coffee maching. Perfect ! What next? Bring her the paper? Let her pick the TV show? Serve her the coffee? Or a bowl of ice cream? Bring her a blanket.

Try this, "Honey, can I get you anything right now?" Whatever she is doing, wherever she is... go there right now and say, "Need anything? Can I get you something?"

Yeah, I did that, too. I think 99% of my thread would have to be redacted--would be all blacked out like some secret government document.

Well, 100/100 sounds easy enough--any theory on how to enact that without my Taker stomping me on the toe I'm usually good for about two days of 100% giving before my Taker comes back out.

We had a brief conversation, what the h does she really mean? I'm kind of bummed out, could use a helpful translation:

FWW: I don't want you to focus on me, I don't want to focus on me, I want and you to focus on you. [Got that, guys?] I feel guilty for all the crap I've done and don't feel like I deserve anything good to happen to me, especially from you.

My response was asking her to try to cut herself some slack, that I'm not out to punish her, asked her to let me love her without feeling guilty for that, and that if she could see herself through my eyes she wouldn't be so hard on herself [thanks, guys, by the way, for that quote--it's just what I was trying to say]. Then she teared up and then the kids came busting in wanting their needs taken care of and she left with one to get take-out. But it was an honest, intimate conversation and one of the few that she's allowed to happen with me.

Kind of nice.

So the conversation is kind of hanging out there, will probably resume tonight. I need to regroup, what is she trying to tell me and what are the things that she wouldn't want to hear? I want to tell her that while I do appreciate just compensation, I do want her to let me in and start trusting me again because I have no bad motives here. Sorry if this is stuff I should figure out myself, but maybe someone's heard this before and can offer input.

Thanks for the refresher, stretch. Will come up with something. Just a little down, running out of energy most of the time.

Stretch and NW - What am I? the f' contrarian. LOL This week during MC my WW told me that I was doing TOO MUCH. For example, I usually pick something up if she drops it and I'm standing there. She forgets her slippers upstairs. No big deal, I go and get them. She doesn't like to fill up her car with gas - I do it. Why do I do these things? Because I WANT TO DO THEM. However, this week I was critized for doing these things. I guess I have to be less nice. Geez. I'm sorry, speaking as a guy, women are difficult to figure out. Oh yeah, mine also hates jewelry, flowers and candy. Kind of limits the traditional gift list.

Sheesh, your WW is making this so easy. I'll just copy and paste my "translation" to her other speech that she gave you--

WW Translation: "Why the hell won't Andy blow a gasket and justify what I'm thinking? Crud, he keeps doing these nice things and it's making me look bad, like I lied when I told everyone was a lousy POS he is. Wait, I know, I'll tell him that he's being too nice and that I'm not even going to say "Thank You" so that he'll think I'm a meanie, that ought to get a reaction!"