NW - thanks again. I was kind of surprised by her statement, but in hindsight it makes sense. I just picture her as a 16 year old girl and not a 40 year old woman. I have a feeling she's going to run wild for a while. She IS doing things to try and get a rise out of me and I'm not biting.

Well, need an opinion on how to handle this. I purchased the eblaster and cellphone spyware on my credit card (her name isn't on it). Knowing it would show up on the mailed statement, I switched it to email statements so no problem so far.

Now we're going over finances, and FWW is wanting to get more involved which is perfectly fine, I could use the help. Uh oh. She asked for the log-in info on credit cards, bank accounts, etc. I have nothing to hide---except the two purchases on my credit card. They don't show up on the current statement, or the last one, but they're there on the one before that all available online.

Crap. I almost feel like a wayward trying to hide something, but would have rather gone through life without letting on about those two purchases. I did what I had to do for my marriage and family, but it seems like it'd be a LB now. Dunno.

Thoughts? We've gathered up all log-ins for the other accounts, but I seem to be having trouble remembering the log-in for the credit card in question. Stall. Ugh.

Can you go in delete it and then just say I don't know why that is when she looks it up if she does?
You did nothing wrong, you did what you had to do to save the marriage and family.

NW - I would say something like - "Oh, that's for the anti-virus software I purchased."

..just an idea...

Don't say anti virus, she'll google it and you're screwed.

Tell her it was a disaster online statements you hated it and request to go back to paper immediately.

They will mail going forward and the email versions are lost forever....

I can cover why I got email statements instead of paper--must have accidentally clicked on something that made them do it. No big deal there.

It's that she wants to be able to log-in online to the credit card account where, if you look, you can pull up past bills.

I could probably cover eblaster since it's been a while, but having "MOBISTEALTH" written bigger than Stuttgart isn't going to fly.

If I'm worrying about how to cover this, how in hell do waywards cover affairs up?

They don't really care. Just tell her you prefer paper and leave it at that.

Go get a little file organizer and make it a project.

She doesn't know what shes looking for - at worst shes fishing.

And waywards deep down aren't really covering well - they only care about cake.

This (to me) sounds like guilt and grief. I've heard this before, and when I took the advice? I had a very frightened, very determined FWW.

It came into play over our trip. You see, for most of our marriage, I sacrificed. As a husband and father, I allowed my own needs to go unmet for a very long time. I did not do so without complaint, but I didn't complain very much, and when I did my complaints went unheard. The funny thing was, I had even done so in a way that avoided LB behaviors!

And sacrifice is the problem. We go without because we think we are doing the right thing. When we do, we do things that cause us to sacrifice - we work jobs we hate, on schedules we hate, with people we hate - all in the name of being a good father or husband. It also tends to make us miserable people, and our spouses can tell.

I don't know about you, North, but I sacrificed and sacrificed until I went into withdrawal. Once in withdrawal, I stopped even attempting to meet FWW's needs. When she entered conflict, she resorted to LB's - Angry Outbursts, Selfish Demands, Disrespectful Judgments - to try to get her needs met. Being in withdrawal, I was not willing to meet her needs, and her LB's just drove me deeper into withdrawal.

So, over the course of the trip, it was some time for RH - before the A, I had actually grown to hate FWW. That only further drove my neglect, and my own LB behaviors toward her. Er... lost my train of thought... um.

Ah, yes. Hate. That is a fear. And she probably also fears how you do see her, as looking at what she threw away, and what she threw it away for, she doesn't look at herself very well.

Fortunately for myself, I was able to allow my FWW to look through my eyes at a high fight-or-flight response during the roller-coaster - 2 days after she finally admitted the depth of the A.


Here is a paired-down description, TMI warning;


North, I wish I had more to help you on those AO moments, I still struggle with them, and had my first meltdown for months last night - but I think it was because of all the time and activity drew me into conflict. I still struggle with that - the only thing I can think to do is to allow her to respond with her own thoughts and feelings, and just listen.

But, as you may have read in my thread as you went over my posts, you may have also noticed the response that came... from other FWW's.

In fact, it might be good for you to look over Sparkler's thread in 101 about O&H with no O.

We can only shoulder that pain and anger for so long before it starts showing in our faces and in actions - and at that point, they know that we are not being open, they know we are not being honest.

You have to let her in... I just wish I could give you the right way how. I don't know it myself, yet.

No worries Andy..

I just checked my own online purchases for those - EB shows up as "Spectorsoft" and MS shows up as "Plimus"

I wouldn't worry about it at all. Those two purchases are surely buried between loads of other purchases, and they'll just get lost in the mix.

Those companies know that what shows up on a CC statement may cause problems, so they look OK to the untrained eye.

As long as you're not line-item itemizing your statements, don't worry.

Well for the future, what I'd do is what a wayward would do when say trying to buy an affair phone.

I'd get a pre-paid visa card or something and use THAT CARD to pay for the software/spyware. Just what I'd do if I had to do that.

MMMM I got a friend to order it on his credit card and gave him the cash.

A little late for you, just play blank if she does see it, shrug and ask if she wants a coffee!

I don't think she's gonna be looking for anything unless the task is to scrutinize every purchase for the last 6 months.

No worries, NW... I'm sure if the remote chance comes and you have to explain, you'll shoot from the hip and whatever you say will suffice.

You say the purchases were on the statement from three cycles ago? She'd have to REALLY look hard to find those.

I'd be more worried about her finding this thread than finding those line items in a credit card statement.

Just throwing another idea into the group.

Someday, when you hit recovery, isn't it best to be totally O&H and come clean about all that snooping? You did it because you were fighting for the M after all. You did it to save the M. There is no comparison to the cheating the WS did. So why is everyone so worried about getting found out?

I guess its best not to be discovered snooping while still in a fragile state. While still in Plan A with a WS ready to bolt the M.

Any recovery vets have an opinion? You must deal with this at some point in the future right? If you trust each other after recovery, and our totally O&H you must have revealed all the snooping...

Personally, I think revealing the snooping would come after years of stability. Possibly never.

I see it as the ONE thing that enables us to uncover the truths, stay one step ahead and gives us insight to an otherwise dark world.

I agree that openness and honesty are paramount to a successful recovery and stronger marriage.

I see no need to divulge HOW you got your information. The facts are there, and each party knows the facts. How BS's found out doesn't matter. Knowing the truth is what matters.

Just my opinion from someone knee deep in the mire right now.

Good for you NW! I sincerely hope you and your WW can become stronger and closer than you have ever been... You are getting that second chance all of us here dream of...

Yep, the part about sacrifice sounds about like me--a lot of resentment from both of us over the years.

Will have to chew this over for a while...

I hadn't considered telling about the snooping--because I'm not ready to give it up yet. Closer, but not yet.

I think I'll just have to see how this plays out...maybe she'll forget about the login thing?

Thanks, HD, I think we're on the right track for once. Had some "minor" SF the other night--strictly for me--not sure if it was a good thing or bad, but she initiated so guess that's ok. How strange it is to have to ponder these things.

Would tend to let sleeping dogs lie (lay?) but would welcome the advice of others that have seen the results one way or the other.

NOOOOOOO. Someday you can share all passwords, email addresses, etc. Actually, now.

But, to share snooping techs? You're not even close to that now. Check out GloveOil, Her Papa, etc. and others who know the drill as former WS's here. Then, and only then, in my opinion.

With all due respect to Stretch...yep, years from now. Now or even in the near future? No. No way a BS lets on to snooping, and has nothing to do with O & H. Others can post links...but, I'm sure that's a big ole' NO at this point.

Clarify -- Stretch did say "when you hit recovery". Apologies!