Ugh is right! Can you imagine a child/teenager watching that show? Hopefully a parent would speak up and then switch the channel.

Mrs. V!

I have a simplified definition of MB vet that I use. It doesn't depend on MBage(how long you've been around here). I consider someone a vet when I can trust their knowledge about MB as coinciding with the teachings of DrH, and that every post they make is BANG ON. As long as they meet those requirements, I call them "vets"

That was RIGHT ON!!

Funny - when I hear "Vet" I think of the doctor that used to come out to the farm to help with a sick horse or cow - and sometimes us kids would get him to look at our kitties while the parents weren't looking - cats didn't warrant the fees.

Hmmmm. Perhaps some comparisons are in order???

Those are called people with brains IMO. If you come here and don't recognize the truth when you read DR Hs articles, there is something wrong upstairs.

Now the BSs that just can't belive what is happening to them, and the level of pain and heartbreak they suffer, I can understand why they are reluctant to act, and blame themselves.

But the layman who argues the example that is laid out in MB, well I wonder what planet they came from.

We all have personal agenda for being here, healing, learning, self- examination, and maybe helping also, but it doesn't take a PHD to understand that what DR H is teaching is the best you could find in any marriage, nevermind all forms of relationships, and it covers it all, even if you want to split hairs.

If you get that, and have heard or seen enough Bullchit in your life, maybe you can contribute to helping. But the true Vets are the ones who have been here for years, and submitted thier own personal agendas to the wisdom of the Dr., and have experience that reads between the lines.

Thanks vets!

(Oh darn, I did it again, praised people in a rant thread)

Interesting comparison KA. Why wouldn't people go to the Dr and get the proper attention and the cure. It can't be the fees, I mean money is not the issue is it?

Or is it the stubborness of insisting things go back to the unhealthy state that brought them here? Afraid of change, even though it is being painfully being made obvious that it is time for it?

I think that most want to go back, and do not want to do the work of maintaining growth and love in the marriage. The question is why?

Betcha DR H would see it quickly, and cut the crap out fast as he saw it, but with wisdom knowing what sort of person he is dealing with.

My idea of a "vet" is somebody who has survived a war, survived hell - and somehow came out BETTER on the other end of the experience, rather than broken and... ear muffs, kids... here comes that naughty word



That takes more than heart, more than brains, more than pure will. It takes that much just to SURVIVE.

Surviving a horrible experience and coming out the other side with the strength and will to be able to talk about it freely, and to support others suffering a similar hell is NOT THE NORMAL HUMAN EXPERIENCE.

It takes a special few who can master their agony and hone it as a weapon of hope for themselves and others.

Okay my rant for today...

Tori and Deans "STORYBOOK WEDDING"!!!!!!!! UGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


N'uff said....

PM....how about LFMM-Vets --- Learm from my mistakes-Vet???

In my world thats the only kind! At least experience wise in the battles I have been in. The ones I have avoided I only get credit for listening to others who steered me clear.

Ok I have a rant,

Why do people not see that ENs being met are part of the journey of BOTH partners to understand themselves?

That having someone meet your,(sometimes temporary percieved), ENs as YOU see them, is the point?

Example,.. A man decides he needs SF frequently to be happy, and his W gives that to him willingly, only to discover its her willingness he really needs.

Number 2--A Woman decides she needs Recreational Companionship so H goes places and share outside interests willingly, and puts time into the relationship, only to discover what she really wanted was to know he cared about her and her interests.

Those are just two examples of how the BASIC, concepts of ENs apply, the ENs being the ROOT of much more that can be discovered about ourselves and loved ones. ENs will change and some will become more prevelant as time goes on, but they will allways exist as EVIDENCE that someone loves us when some cares enough to meet them.

I can hear guys saying, "Oh darn I gotta sit thru that with her!" or Women saying "Oh not again tonight!" and the undertone that goes with that, instead of appreciating the opportunity to love someone and having the means to also. We all know how that feels.

Too many times the taker is in charge, and the giver is pushed to the rear as being a fool. I don't know about anyone else but I enjoy being a fool when I am in love.

Thank you, CP! It really was an enlightenment for me... I thought there was sth wrong with me, being unable to decide what my needs truly were...

Sometimes people forget that the MB list of emotional needs are CATEGORIES, not specific needs. Those CATEGORIES cover most needs that people had expressed to Dr. Harley as he formulated them.

RC could absolutely be watching TV for one person, or joining a bowling league for another.

And sometimes, people want to stick it all to the hard-copy categorical definition. So, if they feel they have a need that falls outside of one of those categories, it is often because it doesn't fit to the hard-written definition.

Alas, we didn't develop the program, and such don't really have room to argue.

Yeah a little imagination is nessesary wouldn't one think? Or the questionarire would be endless if you had to specify what RC was until it dawned on the user that it applies to them also.


Yes I agree, and I wonder how many people split hairs on wording that DR H probably has painstakingly went over in the questionaires?

The big problem and what frosts my shorts is that people think they are sooo different than everybody else, and won't accept that they have those basic ENs. I blame/credit it to falling in love in the first place, where they thought they were both unique and different, because they had "chemistry", and not seeing that was only the beginning. Also wanting to remain there without changing and growing as life demands us to.

We sometimes don't want to be catagorized and labeled with the same afflictions and weaknesses as others, because that will take out of that "special" love status that we think we have attained, and want to stay in. "Oh, just help me get it back to what it was, I know there are/were problems, but I loved what we had". Such is the drug of "in love", it can stand up to being examined, but we can be so afraid of losing it, we forget its ours to refine.

I can remember thinking "As long as ______, stays the same, and ______happens, I will be happy", only to find that those things change, and I was still challanged to love. Love is separate from being "in-love". We are not able to cover all the bases and love in the purest sense of the word at all times. We can grow and learn to but ussually it comes with mistakes, as we are not perfect but learning how to love as we grow. Meeting each other basic and extended ENs assures us to stay together as we learn.

What a simple science DR H has laid out for us human beings. Simple but not easy unless we are able to listen and open our hearts and minds.

CP, what I'm wondering, is when Dr. Harley started making his observations about the similarities between addiction and affairs.... and, well... being in love.

Over the past 10 years his observation has been proven physiologically true.

Had a Dr.'s appointment for FWW, and I was reading a magazine in the office about the top 100 scientific discoveries of 2010 - and the fact that the same areas in the brain that become active during drug use and addiction become active when someone views a picture of an ex.

Though, they also saw cognitive centers get lit up, and centers of the brain which associate pain (this was in the case of an ex, mind you).


Oh, those beastly little squishy organs in our skulls. How I hate them sometimes.

Of course I cannot find the article.. but DR H served as an substance abuse counsellor and ran a few clinics for it think 10 years. I am sure he understands the link in our brains to thought, action, habits ,and the feel good areas they serve.

Here is the article that brought me to this site on a google search.

What to do with an alcoholic Spouse

This is the excerpt that brought grace to me, because it is what I allways knew in my heart was true.



Here is another link you might find intresting, about how the rest of the brain shuts down when heavly addicted to drugs. The site has a lot of info on brain activity/damage self inflicted and accidental. The section I linked has to do with drug abuse, it is no wonder that addicts have lost the ability to make good decisions.

Images of drug and alcohol abuse by DR, Amen clinic studys.

The cerebal cortex located at the front of the brain, is the worse affected, and where people make thier logical decsions based on fact and enviromental factors. This area is not nessesary to the addict, because they are feeding thier pleasure center located in the center of thier brain,(and the primary place we all feed), with the drug.

Thought, rational, working through problems, fight or flight instints and the reward chemicals get processed through the mind, which gets influenced through experience, thought and behavior habits, implemation and results, and feeds the pleasure/ dopamine center of everyone. Without the full use of all our faculties, how can we function as a person, and be rewarded inwardly for it?

Reminds me of Morpheous in "The Matrix"..."The body cannot survive without the mind" It doesn't without help. The problem is abuse and that is where many use drugs to cope, and become dependant.

That is why I see even developmentally damaged or retarded people act more like adults than the supposeedly "smart" people, and realized there is really no excuse just the ones we make for selfishness. Even a fool like me can act right, learn , and be happy. Its a matter of choices.

So barring substance abuse, what is feeding the addicted WS pleasure center? The absence of the painful truth that thier thinking has gotten so bad that they would rather run that stay and fight. They wont change or examine the possibility. what they think is spot on and they mold thier minds around it.

The thought patterns and justifications are easily read by people who are not fooled. The fantasies that they lived in as a child are still alive and active somewhere in thier minds, and if those fantasies included honest and open communication and accoutabilty, they would not be having an affair, they would be seeking counsel, or a divorce.

But its hard to imagine that they would have picked someone who was able to meet those needs, and then divorce them later, if thier wasn't some manipulation going on, whether in thier mind newly, or allways there in some way.

Some people just refuse to grow up, I don't mean they don't want to, heck who does?, I mean they refuse to, thats the difference.


1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

New rant: Waywards stuck in the mud and mire of wayward thinking.

You know, the waywards who refuse to budge? They complain loudly of how muddy they are, how unfair it is that they have to deal with the mud. They even start slinging their mud by blaming others (it�s so much easier that way). Sometimes they blame God or even the man on the street. Their backs get raised when someone dares to suggest to them how to get out of the mud.

The truth? Some people prefer the mud.

Rant over.

Lol, Like the little bird?

A little bird was in the nest with its two siblings.
Mother went to get some food, and told them to wait for her
The little bird was impatient and wanted to flutter down to the ground.
The siblings said, "Please don't, your safe up here, Mother wants us to wait!"
The Little bird could not stand to wait, and wanted freedom from these chains
So it fluttered to the ground, only to find itself cold.
The bird started complaining loudly that it was cold
A cow walked over and took a dump on it, covering it with a warm cowpie, and walked away, without a word.
Now the bird complained again it was covered with poop, even though it was warm.
Eventually a fox came becuase of its cries for help, and listening to the birds complaints, asked if it wanted help.
The bird said yes thinking the fox understood, and was such a caring creature.
The fox picked the bird out of the poop, brought him to a stream, dunked him until he was clean, and them ate him.


Moral of the story--Not everyone who takes a dump on you is out to hurt you, and not everybody who listens to your problems and sympahzizes is trying to help you.

Yeah PM, some people just like to sit in the poop and whine