HE'S ALREADY TRYING TO BREAK THROUGH! He already made contact with my intermediary, trying to get to me. She told me she was nervous about leaving something out that was important and asked if she could just forward the whole email to me this first time and then we'd discuss what to do in the future.

He obviously doesn't understand what intermediaries do. He thinks she's just going to forward emails to me. Not sure how to make this all clear to him.

Here's what he wrote (LONG!):

I am willing to work with you on pretty much everything you wanted. However, this is not a process in which you issue orders and I follow them. If you think it is, we had better cut to the chase and involve attorneys now. I understand that you don�t want to talk to me; that�s fine. But I�m not sure what the benefit of sending an e-mail to [friend] so she can send it to you is. An email that comes from me to [friend] to you has the same content as one that comes directly from me to you. And you cannot make unilateral decisions, such as who will be our intermediaries (not that I have anything against [friend] and [friend's husband]), or where we will swap the kids. Again, I understand that you don�t want any more contact with me than you have to have, but this does not mean that you can just make any rules you want. I am willing to work with you on anything; I am not willing to just do whatever you tell me.

I know you don�t want to see me, but it seems you are punishing yourself by taking them to daycare every day. [Because I have to get up so early]. I can come up to the house every day and wait outside in my truck until you leave, if you�d like, and then get them ready and take them. Not sure of any other way to do this.

I called [Tenant] last night (she didn�t answer), and she sent me a text message later that said she had spoken to you, and arranged to give you the rent at the end of the week. Was that after you and I spoke, or is this the arrangement you had previously made? Regardless, I will pay the mortgage. But the money she gives me or you at the end of the week has to go to pay our taxes. And I need to get the tax file, unless you wish to do the state and local taxes. They have to be sent out by Monday, April 18.

[Tenant] also told me she will be out of the house by the end of the month. I am going to check with [his landlord], and see if I can stay an extra week or two in May, just as padding for [Tenant]�s unpredictability.

What is the plan for soccer? Would you like me to take him to practice, and you can take him to games, or vice versa? Let me know. I am flexible. If you want me to take him to practice, you can send his stuff to school with him, and I can pick him up and get him a snack and take him to practice and then drop him off. I can drop him off at the house; he�s capable of coming into the house by himself, so you don�t have to see me. Again, let me know.

Regarding [this Friday, his birthday], yes, I would like to have the kids. I can�t take them all weekend, just because I don�t have the facilities for them to spend the night. Obviously, once I can get into the house, I can get a bedroom set up for them. Until then, I would appreciate your patience, and I would hope we can go by the original agreement we sort of worked out when I do get into the house. I also told [co-worker] that I would come up on Saturday during the day and work on the powerpoints for the classes with him. I am not implying that you are trying to get rid of them, but I would be happy to take them on Sunday if you want, or I will wait til next weekend and take them on Saturday and Sunday, and we can start our regular weekend rotation then. If you want to make plans any evenings or weekends, just let me know.

With regard to [an event I have], the only reason I took the class was because you told me it wasn�t a problem. I specifically asked you when they offered it to me, and you told me to take it, and you would make arrangements. I am willing to attempt to find child care, but I�ll be out of state; I can�t physically pick up a babysitter, or take them up to [his sister's]. All of the other dates on the page are fine with me. I assume they are all on the co-parenting calendar already. [Another event of mine] is fine, also, but I will be leaving for vacation the next day, and then I have a business trip on the Monday and Tuesday after I come back. I am putting them on the calendar.

WHAT DO I HAVE MY INTERMEDIARY DO NOW? I told her I would send her an email with further instructions (although, I already sent her instructions before we started this). I think she got freaked because he mentioned attorneys.

Yes. Due to my work schedule and long commute, he had been coming over to get the kids ready and take them to daycare, because I leave so early. So now I just get up at 4 a.m., to get us all ready and get them to daycare before I leave.

Please, get this email addy to your IMs and ask them to send me the emails, I will guide them through it.

Scotty.mb@hotmail.com

This is what i would have advised your IM to send you(I did it quickly, so bear in mind it might not be perfect).


A good IM means all of the difference in a good Plan B. They are the foundation of it. It is a very important job.

As far as your WH thinking that they will just forward the messages as written, it is what my WH thought(or thinks, I wouldn't know anymore).

The good news is that your WH at least used your IM the first day. That means that if we get your IM trained, it could be possible to get you on the road to personal recovery in no time.

Also, I know that this sounds a bit weird, since you just entered Plan B, but have you thought about what you would do if your WH wanted to come home? Have you a short list of things that he would need to do so you would be willing to look at recovery with him? It's only good to have a first draft just in case. And any of his "talk" about recovery should be done through the IM.

Have you blocked his number? Changed your email? Etc?

Thanks! I texted her your email address as she is not at home, but she said her phone's battery is dying and she will have to get in touch tomorrow. I am going to email her your suggestions as to how to respond to him, just to give her an idea. I'm going to encourage her to get in touch with you and also Melody Lane who also offered a few weeks ago (assuming her offer still stands, too.)

As for if he would want to come home, yes, previously I did start giving it some thought. Although, now with the new local OW, I'm not thinking there's any chance of that at this point. However, here were my initial thoughts:
1. He must end any and all contact and connection with OW permanently and forever.
2. He must change his cell phone number.
3. He must be open, honest and transparent with me in all things (passwords, etc, everything!). (I'm offering him the same from me, so it's not unfair or whatever else he thinks.)
4. He needs to move back into the house.
5. He needs to enter individual counseling. (I'm already in therapy.)
6. We enter marriage counseling and also work through the MB home study course (and SAA).

But seriously, at this point I do not expect it to happen. I think he's going to cut his losses and run, rather than do anything that is difficult or uncomfortable. That's the kind of man he's showing himself to be.

My offer still stands, Hyacinth.. Bravo to you for going into Plan B! I know this was tough, but you will find it gets better and better every week if you stay very dark. You will start feeling very good.

What often happens when a BS goes into Plan B is the WS will try and get through to test your resolve. Most WS's do not like losing control. You can expect him to REFUSE to speak to your IM at first and do his best to circumvent her. You have to stick to your guns, though, and not let him get away with that.

When that ploy doesn't work, the next ploy is to gain access by givnig your IM a line of crap about "we can't see if we want to get together again if we are not in contact!" "she is so immature!" "she is hurting the children by shutting me out!" Hopefully, your IM is briefed enough to not let him get away with that. Have her email me or Scotland so we can help her.

Here's the email I'm getting ready to send to my IM (she won't get this until later tonight and will have to respond to him in the morning):

Please send him an email that says something like this. You can rewrite some of it in your own words if you think it sounds too much like I wrote it. LOL. Also, "Melody Lane" [*edit] and "Scotland" [*edit] from the marriage forums are willing to help you rewrite any emails. The keys points here are (1) not to let him think he's getting to me (he's not in control any longer), (2) let him deal with the consequences of his actions (he hasn't really had any so far), and (3) give me the space and time to be able to start to detach emotionally from him and prepare to move on.

Hyacinth specifically told me not to just forward your emails to her. Her instructions were that I am to rewrite the content of your communications to her and filter out anything other than information regarding the kids or finances. She said she needs to be able to detach from you and cannot do that if she sees you or remains in direct contact with you. Therefore (I'm telling you this just for clarification as to how this will work in the future), I'll send her the following information:

I'll tell her you are doing the taxes and need the tax file. Also that you need [tenant]'s money to pay the taxes.

I'll tell her that you'd like to know what's going to happen with soccer and ask her if she'll be be taking [son] to practices and games or if you will need to?

I'll tell her that you are willing to have the children on your birthday and Sunday, but not overnight. And that you've offered to take them next weekend instead and that you could switch your weekends from then on.

I'll tell her that you have a problem with the date of [event in May] and that further arrangements will need to be made and see what she wants to do about that. I'll also tell her you agreed to the other dates she mentioned and that you've put something on the calendar for the 15-16th.

I will let you know what her response is to your questions.

Thanks.

Do you understand a little better what I mean? I know he freaked you out a bit with all his tough talk, but here's my thought on attorneys and divorce: if that's the decision he's made and that's what he wants, there's nothing I can do to stop him. And if he's using it as a bluff/threat to try to control me, then I'm not going to bite. Either way, whatever it is, so be it.

Thanks again for doing this. If it gets to be too much, please let me know.

So hopefully now she will understand a little better what she needs to do. I did already send her the list of IM instructions I found here at MB, before I PBL'd him. I think she just needs to be walked through the first few contacts with him until she feels comfortable with her role.

If he gets frustrated at loosing control and tries to come by to see you, you simply, firmly and without hostility say "Have you ended your affair(s) yet? When you do, I will be willing to speak with you. Until then, I will not speak with you." Then you shut a door, turn and leave the area, whatever is appropriate.
The line he wrote about how you will not dictate things to him is quite telling that he has NO idea of the new situation. He is no longer in the driver seat of making independant decisions about the marriage.

I know! ALL the stuff in his email about how I can't make unilateral decisions and dictate how things are going to be... I just want to scream: THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING FOR THE PAST FIVE MONTHS, JACKWAGON! How d'ya like me now?!

WAIT, don't send that to your IM yet. Let me and ML help her with the IMing, you take care of yourself and those kiddos K?

Just quiet your screams, even in your interior and know this is a long road you are on. One where you will need to learn to let otherwise upsetting comments and events just be. You will learn to be still. To not be ruffled. To be logical. To be brave but strong too. To live on your own for your children to lean on even though you would prefer not to have to do so.
Stay the course.
Be true to yourself as a woman.
A totally 100% worthy woman.

BTW, a good, well trained intermediary is gold.

off my soapbox for now.

I didn't want to comment on what he said in his email to your IM because being in Plan B, you shouldn't have seen it. It's typical WS fog babble and there is no need to read into it.

Now, how are you holding up?

Oops! Already sent it. Do you want me to email her again and tell her to wait until she talks to you?


I'm holding up okay. It's only day #2 after all. And you all here are a big help. And I am trying to learn to be still.

Just a quick interjection here. Scotland, I don't know you, but your offer to help Hyacinth impressed me beyond all words. It's so refreshing to see complete strangers go out of their way to help out people that they've never met. And, really, that pat on the back is directed to everyone on this forum.

--This ends my sappy post. Carry on!

hold up!! Tell the IM not to send that email to him!!!

Hyacinth, since you have already seen his email, I suppose it won't hurt this time for you to see a response. This is the response I think she should send. It is polite, non-combative, sticks to the pertinent facts and does not respond to his threats:

Dear WS, thank you for this email for Hyacinth. As per her instructions, I am to only forward pertinent information about the children or finances. Anything else won't be sent.

In view of that, I will be passing on the following information from your email:

1. you are doing the taxes and need the tax file. Also that you need [tenant]'s money to pay the taxes.

2. you'd like to know what's going to happen with soccer and ask her if she'll be be taking [son] to practices and games or if you will need to?

3. you are willing to have the children on your birthday and Sunday, but not overnight. And that you've offered to take them next weekend instead and that you could switch your weekends from then on.

4. you have a problem with the date of [event in May] and that further arrangements will need to be made and see what she wants to do about that.

5. you agreed to the other dates she mentioned and that you've put something on the calendar for the 15-16th.

I will get back to you as soon as possible with the answers.

Thanks much! IM

Have her email me and Scotland the next time she has questions and ask her a) please don't let him rattle you - he will try! and b) please don't send his messages in whole. Just weed out the pertinent facts and ignore the fogbabble and the threats.

I hope you got another shout out to her. Could you call her instead? Try to intercept her before she sends that other email?

I sent her a new email with your content and a text message. I don't think she'll check her email again until late tonight or tomorrow morning, so she'll probably get them all at the same time. Shouldn't be a problem.

See? This is exactly what I predicted and it is CLASSIC WS behavior when a BS goes into Plan B. The problem is that he does not like losing control of you, Hyacinth. Another classic ploy is how he makes plans to get into the house. Expect him to try other ways to achieve that. He will continue to fight to get through so he can regain control.

He does not get to choose your intermediaries. That is not up to him, that is up to you. He either communicates with them or he doesn't get to communicate at all. If he doesn't like those conditions he should give up his affair and come home. But as he abandoned his family he has lost the right to call any shots. You have made his children available to him and given him an avenue for communication. That is all he has a right to expect.

Right now, he is testing you and your IM to see if you mean it. When this doesn't work, you can expect him to drive over to the house and/or call you directly. It will be important to NOT let him through!