Am I committing a disrespectful judgment here?

8:37 PM Prisca: are you going to do the budget soon?
8:38 PM me: I don't know ... haven't felt very motivated to do much of anything today.
Prisca: ok
8:40 PM why?
8:41 PM me: I'm depressed about our relationship.
8:42 PM Prisca: why?
8:45 PM me: Because it looked like this morning wasn't fulfilling for you and you've been acting like something was wrong all day even though you told me you were okay.
Because we only got 8 hours of UA time last week and we haven't had 15 hours since last year.
8:46 PM Prisca: I counted more than 8 hours
8:49 PM me: My count is about eight.
Prisca: why?
8:50 PM me: That's just what I counted.
3 hours of SF in the mornings.
Some time in the evenings, but never more than an hour.
Prisca: ok
9 minutes
8:59 PM Prisca: I guess there isn't much hope for us then?
9:02 PM is that what you feel?
9:03 PM me: I do not feel like you are following the POUA.
Prisca: why
9:04 PM me: We haven't spent 15 hours a week together since last year.
Prisca: i'm there for UA
I plan UA
me: Yet somehow we get less than 15 hours a week.
9:05 PM Prisca: and you're blaming me?
me: All I see you doing to correct the situation is trying to persuade me that my feelings about it are wrong.
9:06 PM Prisca: i havn't said your feelings are wrong
but you are accusing me of sabotaging UA
me: I don't see you working through the subject with me to get to something you are happy with.
9:07 PM Nor do I see you sharing your emotional reactions about it with me.
Prisca: I've been happy with UA
sharing emotional reactions with you is not safe
9:08 PM me: I don't see you working to learn the Marriage Builders way of sharing them.
Prisca: I am
but you attack me for sharing them
9:09 PM me: How did you feel about this morning?
9:10 PM Prisca: I would rather not say right now
9:11 PM me: Then I would appreciate you not telling me you are happy with UA time. I consider that to be dishonest.
Prisca: I have been happy with UA
don't tell me how I've felt
9:12 PM me: I would also appreciate you not telling me you are "okay." If you are having a negative reaction that you feel unsafe sharing, then I don't consider that "okay," and I consider it misleading to say so.
9:13 PM Prisca: then we have a disagreement on the meaning of "okay"
me: Yes, we do. Since I am your audience, it miscommunicates to me to say "okay" when the feeling is "unsafe."
9:14 PM What changes would make you feel safe to tell me how you feel about this morning?
Prisca: and therefore your definition is the only one that matters
me: Don't tell me how I feel.
Prisca: and you can call me dishonest
9:15 PM why, you've been telling me how i feel all evening
how UA is not important to me
how I don't really enjoy it
9:16 PM how I don't care about how you feel
Prisca: if you want me to feel safe, you won't DJ me
I DO care about UA, and telling me that I don't is a DJ


I thought I was telling her how I felt and what was upsetting and worrying me, not saying anything about how she felt. I don't feel like I even said the things she accuses me of saying.

I feel like I can't tell her I'm unhappy without her challenging me and arguing with me and telling me why I should be happy about it or why it's not her fault.

Yes, markos, here they are:


Hyperbolic and untrue, buddy.


Demanding and judgmental.


Same here.

I'm going to die emotionally if we don't start working this program soon. How do I say this without being judgmental? She doesn't allow me to say that I feel like we're not following it.


Trying to educate her. Should have just terminated the conversation. Having said "I consider it dishonest," if she doesn't want to accept that, then leave it at that, because you can go no further.

She is telling me I am making her feel like I will never be happy.

I just want us to follow this program. Cutting corners with UA time is not following it. Refusing to talk to the coach is not following it. Ignoring good suggestions given here is not following it.

All I've ever wanted is a happy marriage for both of us. I do not feel that it is fair to subject me to this as a result of me complaining about the number of UA hours.

Markos, let me guess. She is a right brainer and you are a left brainer. Do I have this right?

You are probably right. But it's more complicated than that. Though left-brained, I am very emotional, and though right-brained, she greatly appreciates logical reasoning.

I'd say we are the only two folks in the world thinking with our whole heads. But if that were truly so, we probably wouldn't be having these problems.

That makes perfect sense and I do see it like that. I think you need to really, really focus on being more pleasant and attractive, Markos. She will want to spend more UA time with you if you do. For example, she wanted to buy something above and you whapped her over the head with a DJ about "shopping being more important than UA." That is very unfair.

And I see you badgering her about her feelings when it is clear to me she is in withdrawal because of your angry outbursts. I really think you will get much more cooperation if you back off, my friend.

Did you answer my question about getting babysitters?

In the dialogue you posted, my H would have shut right down if I badgered him about his feelings like that. He really doesn't know and can't articulate them. IT is a huge lovebuster for me to press him about his feelings. He HATES IT.

In your case, your W is hesitant to express her feelings because you explode.

Does she have a hard time articulating the reasons behind her actions?

I see what you are saying. My first instinct is to try to justify myself and say that I did not respond to her that way, only posted it here. But I know that there's no difference.

I'm just frightened ... I can try to work with her on every request about buying something and it still doesn't seem to lead to a good marriage.

I raised the subject of looking for babysitters with Prisca this afternoon, but she didn't seem much interested. I am thinking of trying to look around in our church. Might need quite a bit of overhaul on the budget.

We signed up for a gym membership last year specifically because there was very affordable childcare there and it was a great opportunity to get a couple of hours of time together. Prisca seems to really enjoy it when we go.

You are right.


Yes she does. She doesn't like to offer much information about what is wrong or what she is feeling, never has.

Can you make that work, Markos? Look around and see what you can find. Are there some other couples in your church you can exchange babysitting services with?

Yes she does. She doesn't like to offer much information about what is wrong or what she is feeling, never has. [/quote]

My H is very much like this too. It makes him a nervous wreck trying to explain his feelings and/or reasoning behind his actions. He is so much like Prisca in that he loves logic but he tends to be an foggy thinker, if that makes sense. He does not express emotions and feels VERY uncomfortable doing so. It is very hard for him to articulate his feelings and it makes him feel very defensive. So when I try to force him to articulate his feelings, he freezes right up and we get nowhere.

I don't ask him anymore and that has actually improved our marriage so much. I have gained a promise from him to BE HONEST with me when something makes him unhappy and to never agree to something that makes him unhappy. He is able to do that, but he cannot articulate his reasoning. It makes it much harder for us to reach good POJA agreements, but once we reach ONE about something, it usually sets the template for other things.

In your situation, Markos, you have to re-condition her to not FEAR your AO's. Every time you cut loose like that it puts you way back and will take her longer to trust your reactions.

I would volunteer to babysit myself but I would probably get arrested for using duct tape!

Only on five of them. The youngest girl just named one of our new kittens "Pepsi." You and she would probably get along great.

markos, watch out. you would probably come home from a lovely night out to find that all your daughters had big hair.

Mel takes that stuff very seriously.

DUH!! They already do, silly foreigner!! They are TEXANS!!

Markos, your little daughter sounds like a woman of good taste!

This. This is the kind of stuff that sounds manipulative to me Markos. What does the budget have to do with the price of rice in China? I can certainly see why she would avoid talking to you about ANYTHING if she fears that every simple request about mundane household needs/wants turns into an opportunity for you to hound her about your relationship?

Think how the conversation would have gone if you had just answered her question about the budget. Did you already know what she wants to buy? What is it? Are you resentful of what she wants to buy or are you just ticked off in general and decided to use your control of the budget to force her to talk to you about your relationship?

All of the above is said with gentleness and with the best of intentions. (hoping Mel won't yell at me for kicking you when you are down. :))

I started looking this morning, and I am going to be persistent until we have something.

We talked last year about approaching another couple in our church for a babysitting exchange, but they up and moved before we asked them.

One of the things I worry about with a babysitting exchange is that there's an inherent inequity if a family with six children exchanges babysitting services with a family of, say, two children. That other family we were thinking of asking had four children, at least. There's one other family at church with more children than us, but their children are much older and I'm not sure they'd be in as much need as us.

You are right. I can't be pushing Prisca into discussing anything.

And you are also right, SmilingWoman ... why did I jump from the budget to UA time last night? From Prisca's point of view that must look like I completely shut down her attempt to talk about or complain about something.

I was laboring under the misimpression that I tried to complain last night and Prisca turned it around to be all about her. When in fact it was I who started the problem by doing that myself.

I asked Prisca's mom about babysitting this weekend, but it was short notice and she's busy. In fact, she's busy making time with Prisca's father. Yay!

The rejection is a little depressing to Prisca, though. Her mother has been making time to babysit the other sisters' children.

I'm going to be persistent and keep looking for opportunities. I'd like to enlist Prisca's mom to help us find some folks in the church who can help us.

On a related note, our small groups program at church just reassigned everyone to new groups, and we are going to be matched with the family I mentioned earlier that has more children than us. That's going to be fun for all of us. Not sure if it'll lead to any babysitting opportunities, but who knows. The oldest son of this family recently got married (on mine and Prisca's anniversary!!) and at the shower we gave him and his bride Fall in Love, Stay in Love ... and the mother came to me and asked the title of the book, wrote it down, said she hadn't heard of it and wanted to check it out.

We now have a date at the end of the month in which Prisca's mom will babysit.

Meanwhile, Prisca is feeling really down today.

She is sharing a lot of discouragement with me. I am listening and trying to say the best things here, but feeling a little bit like this might be a potential minefield. In particular, she's saying things like "But I'm meeting your emotional needs, and it's not working." Well, truth is she's not doing the things on my ENQ, and she's not spending 15 hours a week with me. I can't blame her for that decision, but I also don't think it's good that she's telling herself she's doing this and it's not working.

Which comes back to the same scary place I have been many times before: there are measurable things that could be done, are not being done, and I can't say "You're not doing the program," because that's a Disrespectful Judgment.

Anyone want to help me move through this in a positive direction?