You did good!!

Perfect!

My H got with the program right away too. He did try to sneak a couple of direct contacts in there with me, but I was able to circumvent them just fine.

Talk about getting with the program! My IM sent me an email today and she is turning out to be awesome at her job. I think she did a great job of making his content neutral (see below). The other part of the story is that, after initially trying to tell me I couldn't tell him what to do, he's now buckling and following my directions and requests. What does everyone think?

Here's the email she sent:

How do you want to work this Sunday's visitation with the kids?

After this weekend, will you be rotating weekends?

He will pick the kids up tomorrow afternoon, and drop them off he just needs to know when. He also needs to know where, and what time are you dropping them off at daycare in the morning, so he can make sure he is at daycare [to pick them up] before the 9 hr. limit.

Can you give him the username and password for the [rental house] mortgage account so he can pay it online?

Do you want him to come to [our son]'s soccer games if you are there? If not then, then are you going to go to the games during your weekends with the kids and he goes on his weekends?

He is putting a business trip on the calendar for July 6-8. [What he's referring to is that for years we've kept a joint Google calendar called "co-parenting" that we each put our various obligations/appointments/etc on to, things that we each need to be aware of because it might affect child care. This way one of us wouldn't unknowingly schedule something that conflicted.]

Is he still supposed to have the kids on Wednesdays? [When his dinner visits were when I kicked him out last time.] Has this schedule changed, if so what did it change to?

Should he pick the kids up next Tuesday since you have a appointment scheduled for 3:30? [This has been on the Google calendar, that's how he knows.]

He doesn't have anyone to watch the kids on May 6th, if he can't find someone he will cancel his business trip.

Sweet!!! She is doing an awesome job!!

The one watch out I see here are visitation schedules. And maybe that is only because it is all new, but I would look for ways to stick to a strict schedule with very little variance so you aren't dealing with this on a daily basis. Anything you can do to cut that back would be helpful so I would start thinking about that.



That is the perfect solution!

Keep up the good work, Hyacinth, you are doing an awesome job and so is your IM!

Hyacinth, your IM is doing great. Good job IM.


Only a point here, "He doesn't have anyone to watch the kids on May 6th, if he can't find someone he will cancel his business trip." This shouldn't have gotten through, whether he has a sitter or not and would have to cancel a business trip is not anything you should know about. See, he is going to sneak things through and you will have some holes in your Plan B. You may not feel it now, but it will slowly suck away at you.

Are you still using the Google calendar? If so, I would be very careful with this as he will get glimpses of your life that he shouldn't be privy to while you are in Plan B.

You're doing GRREAT. Get as dark as you can and take care of yourself.

To add to what ML has suggested, I AGREE. It will also take some of the pressure off of your IM. You won't burn her out to quickly(says the person who had 3 IMs in one year ARGH). If you get a schedule hammered out in advance, then your IM won't need to be passing messages along. It will help you heal more quickly. That is our main goal here afterall.

Yes, we are trying to work out a regular visitation schedule. During our previous separation, he had them on Wednesday evenings and every other weekend and we're going to go back to that.

This is an issue from a month ago when we mutually agreed to double book ourselves and then try to sort it out together, so I don't see this as him trying to sneak anything through, it's actually him trying to cooperate and work something out. It's just as much my fault/responsibility as his. Also, these business trips are a major source of extra income, so it directly affects how much money I get from him (in addition to his regular salary, I get half of what he makes when he travels, which is substantial). So, yes, I need to know when he travels (so I know how much $ I should be getting) and whether or not he has to cancel a trip. Unfortunately. I can't afford not to.

Yes, I thought that, too. Right now there are a few appointments still on it that can't be changed, but once we have a visitation schedule hammered out, I will schedule stuff for when he has the kids, so I won't have to put anything on the calendar. Then we can really only use it to track his travel (which will sometimes affect the visitation schedule) and if I have anything really unusual and vital that I need to schedule. I see it being phased out as we get further details and regular scheduling worked out.

Here's what I have to send to her to respond to him. Should I have her editing my responses and questions to him to be neutral, also? She asked me that when I sent her my first set of responses and I told her I didn't care one way or the other, that I'm not worried about protecting his feelings. (Then she and I both laughed about that!)

I already know that #1 is over the top, but he claims he is "doesn't have the facilities" to have the kids overnight, for full weekend visits yet, in the tiny, one bedroom apartment he's renting, but that he'll have more room when he moves into our rental property in a few weeks. (His rental has a queen-sized bed in the bedroom and a couch in the living room and that seems like enough room to me!) What he really means is that it's inconvenient and uncomfortable for him. And that's his choice to make, but I shouldn't be inconvenienced so that he can avoid being inconvenienced himself. Trying to figure out how to switch kids twice on a Sunday without having contact with him is a major pain that shouldn't be my problem.

Here are my answers:

1. Sunday: I have no idea how to work visitation this Sunday. He feels it to be inconvenient to him to have his children the entire weekend, however, it's just as inconvenient to me to shuffle them back and forth as it suits him. If he doesn't want to have his kids for the entire weekend - Friday through Sunday - then he needs to figure out some way to exchange them that does not involve me having any direct contact with him, as I've told him I will not have contact with him as long as he is having affairs. If he would rather not have them on Sunday, but have them extra evenings next week, that's fine. This isn't about me trying to deny him the kids. He can see them pretty much as much as he wants (as long as it isn't so often that it denies them to me either, I mean). Or if he can figure out some way to exchange them on Sunday that works, I'm open to hearing his ideas.

2. Weekends: If he wants to start rotating weekends starting this weekend, that should be fine. Obviously, there may have to be some adjusting from time to time due to his travel schedule and other events, but we can work that out on a case-by-case basis.

3. Tomorrow: I will be dropping them at daycare around 6:45 a.m. He can drop the kids off at XXXX and XXXX's. He needs to let me know what time he will be dropping them off so that I can let them know and also so that I know when to pick them up. (I already told them I assumed it would be around 7 or 8?)

4. [Rental] Mortgage: username: xxxx. Password: xxxx

5. Soccer games: It seems fair that we will each only go to soccer games on the weekends that we have the kids.

6. Travel: The July 6-8 trip should be fine.

7. Wednesdays: If he wants to start dinner visits on Wednesdays with the boys again, that's fine with me. This Wednesday, however, [older son] and I will be at the [event we planned in January], but he can have [younger son] on Wednesday if he wants. Does he want to keep [younger son] overnight Wednesday and take him to daycare on Thursday? Or would he rather just switch his dinner visit to Tuesday and have me make other arrangements entirely for Wednesday? (A third option is that he picks up [younger son], but drops him off at XXXX and XXXX's around 7:00.)

8. Tuesday is my appointment, so he will need to pick the boys up that day. If he wants to have that day as his dinner visit this week, that's fine. Please have him let me know since it will affect the time he will drop off the kids and I need to make arrangements.

9. May 6: It was my understanding that originally he was going to ask his mother if she could watch the boys May 6. I would be able to drive them to [town where she lives] any evening that week. If he doesn't want to ask her or she is unavailable, he needs to let me know and I will try to work something out so that he won't have to cancel his trip hopefully.

First, you should be filtering your own emails before you send them to her. Keep it to the basics.

Second, you keep asking HIM what he wants to do. Just tell him. Example, "The children need to be picked up sitter's by XXX o'clock. They can be dropped off at XXX's house any time after XXX o'clock."

I would probably send this to your IM as your response.


This is why it is important to plan ahead before you are doing Plan B so you can get to the healing part.

Every contact you have with your IM is like having contact with your WH. Every contact your WH has with IM is like having contact with you. Try to keep it to a minimum.

Most of that is good and I'm editing my responses. However, one issue with some of that is that our custody agreement has "right of first refusal" in it, which means that if one of us has plans that require a babysitter while we are the custodial parent, the other parent gets the first chance to take the kids before we make alternate arrangements, as long as it is feasible/we have enough notice/etc. So, for example, I can't tell him he can't have our younger son this Wednesday if he wants.

But you don't need to make the arrangements all for him. He needs to pull on his big boy pants and figure some chit out on his own. You can't meet this need for him. There is no need meeting during Plan B.

You do what needs to be done on your end but try to make it as little contact through your IMs as possible. daily exchanges will be NO GOOD to your personal recovery. Get this ironed out hun, so you can move forward. You are doing good and I want you to keep that momentum up.

If I don't make arrangements regarding our younger son this Wednesday, I guarantee he's going to tell me to pick him up at his apartment when my older son and I get back and make a big deal over me being unreasonable for not wanting to see him when that would be the easiest thing to do. [Actually, if we weren't in no contact, he would want to put my younger son to bed at my house and just wait there until I get back because that would be easiest on everyone if circumstances were different.]

So, if I don't make arrangements for the exchange and he tells me to come get him at his apartment, what do I do then?

You don't go to his apartment.

What were you going to do with your son on Wednesday?

See, you are calling the shots here now. YOU decide where the kids go, for how long and when. YOU are the one who decides how this is handled. Don't let him throw wrenches in YOUR plans. You showed strength in getting into Plan B, now you need that little extra push to get you comfortably into it for YOU.

This Wednesday my older son and I have tickets for a concert in another town, about an hour away. We bought the tickets in January and my son is very excited. (Originally, WH and I were both going to take him.)

That's why I'm trying to make alternate arrangements for Wednesday. I have to give him the option to have my younger son because of our custody agreement and so I have to make arrangements for drop off/pick up that doesn't involve contact. And if he decides not to take our younger son for the evening, I have to make different arrangements for that. And all of this is complicated by the fact that my younger son is 2 1/2 and needs to be in bed long before we will get back into town, so he needs to be somewhere he can sleep for the night (my usual babysitter is in high school and not allowed out that late on a school night).

Did you mean what was I going to do with my younger son if WH didn't watch him? Friends of ours have offered to either keep him overnight or put him to bed at their house until we get back into town and we can pick him and take him home then.

A concert! How fun!
I would have IM ask if WH will watch him and take him to daycare?

In the future, try not to vary the schedule.

Concert! Concert! Concert! Yay!

My initial thought is, don't go to the concert. I understand that that isn't going to go over well with our son. I also know, that you wouldn't take that option.

Next, why can't you just tell WH that older son is unavailable for Wednesday, so he can have them on Tuesday this coming week and Wednesday after? If he brings up DS2.5, then you can tell him that he can have DS2.5, pick him up at XXX at XXX time and take him to daycare at XXX on Thursday morning.

This doesn't need to be complicated. You just need to change your thinking. Yes, your arrangement says that he has right to first refusal but isn't Wednesday already his night?

i would make sure that you don't schedule things at times when they are supposed to be with your WH. If that means they miss out on things, so be it. This back and forth isn't going to do them any good either. My boys have missed things because it was my WH's weekend. It is just the way it is. Sucks, but it is reality.

Brainstorm some things, ask for help with it, and you will be amazed how things work out.

Thanks.

As I make changes to my response and think about my first draft, I see now how I was being WAAAAAAAAAY too accommodating. Yikes.

NP, one of the reasons we are here.

See, it's been YEARS of conditioning that you two were ONE. You will need to train yourself not to think that way, but it will take time. If you read my thread, you will see that I asked for help in A LOT of responses at first. I KNEW that I didn't want to say everything that was in my head(well, I actually DID want to, but not in plan B). I asked for help and was honoured enough to receive it. Just ask, it's what we're here for. You don't need to go this alone. You have enough to take care of in the real world, let us lessen your burden by helping where we can.

New development and I need help.

He had the kids tonight for a visit and then dropped them off at a friend's house for me to pick up. My best friend knew he was going to do this and she had a hunch she hadn't told me about, so she and her mother decided to follow him. I DID NOT ask her to do this, but I'm glad she did because she found the local OW. It's a co-worker of his, who I had a funny feeling about but kept shaking it off. This makes me want to throw up. I know this woman, have met her at work functions. She's a close friend of one of my friends. I can't stand her, never have been able to stand her. I have always thought she was trash, but now I know it. I'm repulsed. I really think I'm all done.

Anyway, now I need to start gathering evidence about the affair, because I can file for divorce with fault in my state and get a slightly better settlement, make him pay my court costs, etc.

I am trying not to go off half-cocked here. I don't even know where to start. Any suggestions? I know I need to call a lawyer and plan to do that on Monday. I am also thinking it might be worth it to hire a PI to get some real evidence, because to prove adultery I have to show intent and opportunity. I think I can subpoena the content of his text messages, which will definitely show intent. If I can get photos of him entering her house one evening and not leaving until the next morning, that shows opportunity. I'm starting to plan nuclear exposure, but I'm obviously not doing that until I have all the evidence I need.

What do I do? Where do I start?