Your husband doesn't see how his decisions affect you because he isn't there to witness it. Take a man out of daily home life (or woman, goes both ways) and "marriage and family" becomes an abstract concept. People get used to not being responsible to or responsible for others, and they turn into selfish clods.

Define "A LOT"

Since I don't golf, once a year would be an infinite increase.

What is "A LOT"

Is there a way to POJA the golf thing? What do you want to get, and if you get that would you be enthusiastic about a certain amount of golf?

Example, if he can earn enough that you could drop to one job working no more the J hours a week (you fill in a value for J), you would be enthusiastic about 1 round of golf a week not costing more than $G where G is expressed as a dollar figure, percentage of income, percentage of discretionary funds, taken from his personal allowance, whatever you are enthusiastic about.

EE, if the man spends 15 hours a week on UA with his wife, and 15 hours a week on FC with the kids, that leaves 18 hours of the 48 hours he spends home per week for golf. Minus sleeping, minus personal grooming, minus honey-do...there is simply no time for golf.

I'm just me, but I would furiously hate a man who was out of town golfing while I was rushing home from my second job to my six of eight kids. Furious hatred. But that's me.

That's why you POJA, to find a figure that BOTH are enthusiastic about. I doubt he would be enthusiastic about zero. She certainly is not enthusiastic about the current value.

The POJA is about finding a means to a mutually satisfactory solution. So for him to get a non-zero value, other things may need to change. That's why one has to indicate what would lead them to be enthusiastic about a non-zero value for golf.

The POJA will not work if she says nothing will make her satisfied, or if he is unwilling to negotiate the amount of time and resources used.

It doesn't seem she is anti-golf. Just anti-golf getting more attention than her needs.

Is that an accurate assessment?

EE, are you missing the part where he isn't even HOME five days a week? Would you agree that is more important to address than golf?

Yes, he needs to be home. He's been gone like that for a year and we are both sick of it. He is looking for a job nearby and has had some interviews, but being over 50, it seems it's harder for him to find something, plus he's in one of the areas hit very hard during the recession (manufacturing).

The golf, if he has the chance, he used to golf every Wed. night (9 holes) for league, then at least every other weekend, (but often every weekend) on Sunday mornings 18 holes. He hates when I say it but then he'd come home tired and lie around and watch golf and nap. I didn't mind that part too much cause I'm so tired by Sun. afternoon (usually take kids to church) that I need a nap too. He also used to go away for a long weekend once a year in April (they usually left on my birthday, not kidding!) but he hasn't done that lately.

To me, that's a lot. Especially when we could barely afford it and when I'd be at home with sick kids etc. I have tried to negotiate with him before and say, hey, if you guys want to go every other Saturday 18 holes, I could live with that. I'm glad he enjoys it and I wouldn't want to take all that away. And that way he'd be here to go to church, and it's not every weekend. But he's never agreed to it.

Nope, didn't miss it at all. Perhaps that's what she says he needs to address for her to be enthusiastic about a non-zero value for golf.

Don't assume I missed it. I simply spoke in general terms. If that's what she wants him to address for her to be enthusiastic about golf, then I say, "you go girl!"

I should probably bow out of your thread, because I'm furious on your behalf. And you don't need me riling you up with my indignation. My H left on my birthday to go out of town with his buddies? He'd come home to find his key no longer worked in the door. But first he'd have to wade over his stuff thrown on the lawn.

I realize I put up with a lot. But I've never pursued divorce, just wanted to separate so he would wake up. I do get very angry at times, then he focuses on that and thinks that's the problem. I am doing much better at staying calm. Now I just want to solve the problems, not get mad. I still love him. He is smart, funny, loves his kids and actually can be quite sensitive, just doesn't seem to know how to show it.

Your DH is out of town, leaving you with two jobs and 6 kids? You've got to be superwoman to be able to manage that!

I was homeschooled all my life and have so much respect for homeschool parents.

My DH travels Sunday - Thursday and it puts a strain on our marriage - and we have no children, just two cats, two horses, and two houses. I can't imaging doing what you're doing.

I worked in a plant for two years and was hit by the recession as well. Good luck finding a job!

Homeschooling mom here. (of just one though). I kept homeschooling through a divorce from a WH, while single and now remarried and dealing with lower income than I had before. So I get it. Sometimes I lie awake at night worried about money because what it boils down to is I can't work and homeschool my son. So if I have to go to work I have to put ds in school...that makes me not need/want many things that more money could buy. I do get it.

Thankfully, dh is on board with me. You don't have that with your dh.

Listen to Mel. Something has to give here.

Yes. I know many many families that could afford to have a SAHM if they were willing to lower their standard of living.

This is why I think you should email Dr Harley. Let Dr H be the heavy in all this.

I just emailed him. I'll keep you updated.

Since I enjoy learning, I'm curious. Does Dr. Harley advocate women should be able to stay home and not work or is it mothers in particular while the children are school age or ? And I would think depending on his answer it might differ if the kids were homeschooled vs going to school (we're they are not home all day)?

What if in this case the husband isn't enthusiastic about her quitting both jobs?

Now I am definately not with a lacking of married friends but I know of only two married couple friends in which one wife doesn't work at all because of very young children and one where the wife works like 10 hours a week just to get out of the house. But in the later case, both of the kids are in school all day.

Yes, he does, in His Needs Her Needs, under the FS chapter.

I should've ordered that book instead of FILSIL then! Jk...I think the answer is to just go ahead and order HNHN also then.

I get to wondering because occassionally my wife will mention not wanting to work. Then after a few days of being off work, she is ready to go back to work. I've asked her if she would like me to find another job that would pay more so she wouldn't have to work and she has a resounding no! because that would make me working all year and she'd rather me home during summers and the long breaks (there's no way we could live on my teachers salary).

Harley supports women having careers if they choose that and their husband supports it, but feels it is important for a woman to have a choice between homemaker or career girl, specifically after she has children. The chapter is sort of written assuming that a married couple WILL have children.

Good deal! I will listen for your situation.

I haven't heard back yet. I said I wasn't sure about being on the radio, so maybe that's why.

Talked to dh tonight. He has read the book. He is not sure it is realistic and he's afraid that I will put all my hopes in this program and if it doesn't help I'll say it's over. I don't have that intention. I just want us to commit to working on this, which he says he will. He said he will fill out the LBQ and the ENQ this weekend, as well as the Recreational Enjoyment Inventory, since he doesn't see what we would do together. He doesn't think we have many interests in common. I told him that of course we don't anymore, we haven't tried for a long time. But I mentioned some things we do both like or liked in the past.

I think he is upset about the book saying all your recreational time should be with your spouse. I think it's because of golf. I'm not sure he'll be willing to change that, he was not happy that it said ALL recreation. From these boards, I'm getting that not everyone adheres to this. Am I wrong? I feel weird asking him to totally give up golf, but on the other hand with him being gone all week there is very little time for US or family on weekends, esp. if he golfs.