Background: Married 11 years and together 16, first marriage for both. Two young children, 6 and 4. We were both traveling considerably for work when the EA started summer of 2010. PA started January 2011. WW asked for �trial separation� around Valentine�s Day. OM�s wife exposed to me at the beginning of March 2011. WW has been exposed to her family, who is 100% pro-marriage. No employer exposure due to concerns of termination, which would result in loss of insurance for the kids. WW and OM don�t work together, but are client/vendor.

After the exposure, I implemented the concept of an inviting home and demanded NC. NC letter was delivered but I don�t feel it was sincere. We have been to two MC sessions and one individual session with the same MC. WW requested �space� and MC agreed that it would be a good idea. This time was to allow WW to �think about if she wanted to work things out.� We are alternating time away from home for one month. WW has been sorry for the pain I have been put through but not remorseful. She tells me about how much she is in love with OM, even though they are not seeing each other or communicating. We have an agreement that WW will tell me when they have contact. Since this agreement was put in place, she has told me of one time that OM contacted her. Every time I ask about something regarding OM, she says that she doesn�t know because she is not allowed to talk to him. I don�t believe her. This is not the first time OM has been in an A and apparently is now going through D.

WW took children on spring break to visit her sister and nephews (8 hour drive) last week. They had plans to go to a theme park and WW invited me to come for the day. I went and it was awkward at first but I ended up having a good time.

Talked to WW�s sister this past Wednesday to thank her for the weekend. Sister asked if WW was back at home, and I told her that she was not. 30 minutes after the call, I received a phone call from WW saying it was over because WW�s mother called WW to tell her to get home and that WW�s mother would never have anything to do with OM. I asked her when she made this decision and she said �Just now�, however, this is the feeling I have been getting since exposure. She said that just because I have turned into the �husband of the year� over the last month, it doesn�t change the past. I came home Wednesday night and WW was furious because it was supposed to be my night away due to our arrangement. I told WW that the arrangement was to give her time to think. Now that she made her decision, the arrangement changed and I wanted to sleep at home. WW also demanded that I stop talking to her sister.

On Thursday, WW and I had a talk in which WW said that she doesn�t love me and not capable of ever loving me again. She says she tried to bring up her unhappiness before the A but I wouldn�t listen. (I will accept some responsibility for this because I didn�t recognize it, but also that I sometimes need to be hit over the head with info. That being said, WW�s comments at the time weren�t delivered with much emphasis.) She didn�t flat out say again that it is over, but that is what she meant. I told WW we need to put the house on the market and she said that it can wait. She wants to get an apartment and expects that we would commute using the same arrangement we currently have. At first I told her that I didn�t want to leave and I couldn�t force her to do anything. Then I reconsidered and said I would continue thinking that it will prolong the process and allow more time for her to come back to reality.

How do I get her out of the fog?

Hi weolm, welcome to Marriage Builders. You are in the right place.

A big part of the problem is that the affair is still going hot and heavy and is being facilitated by your sleeping away part of the time. There is absolutely no legitimate reason to do this other than to facilitate her affair. You should not leave your home or your children just so she can she can carry on her affair unimpeded.

That is what we call ENABLING. And many states look at this as abandonment when you leave your family like this. This is the WORST time in the world to leave your children when they need you the most.


And as any credible "counselor" would tell you, this only means she wants you out of her hair so she can carry on her affair. Your "MC" has been facilitating her affair at the expense of your marriage. If she needed to "think" she can do that anywhere. If she needs "space" she can go out in the garage. But neither of you need to leave to achieve either of those objectives, that is silly.

Your counselor is unqualified and does not know what he/she is doing. I would strongly advise you dump this person before he/she causes any MORE damage.

So, the reason your wife is still in a fog is because her affair is still going hot and heavy. She is not telling you about her continued contact. If you would put a GPS on her car, flexispy on her phone and a keylogger on her computer, you would find evidence of the ongoing affair.


What does this all mean? Where was your wife during this time?

All of this is what we call fogbabble. And let me explain. An adulterer is high on an affair. It is an addiction and the mentality of an adulterer is very much like a falling down drunk. Once you GET that, you understand your wife. She will rewrite history to justify her affair. You will be shocked at some of the grievances she manufactures to justify her affair and shift the blame to you. This is how she justifies the affair in her mind.

So when she says stuff like the above, ask yourself if you would listen to the rantings of a falling down drunk and how relevant it would be? Ask yourself if you can reason with a falling down drunk? Of course you can't.

The solution is to NOT listen to her rantings and understand that it is a result of the FOG and focus, instead, on BUSTING UP THE AFFAIR. Killing the affair is the equivalent of taking the drink away from the drunk. Once you do that, he can sober up.

So that is your mission, Sir: KILL THE AFFAIR.

And we can help you with that step.

Apparently your MIL KNEW she was with the OM, right? Have you called the OMW to inform her?

Thanks for the response ML. I also suspect that this A is continuing. WW has demanded that I not talk to her family as well as the OM's spouse. Said she would leave immediately.



This is what I was thinking too. The MC is certified LMFT and claims to be "pro-marriage". I about lost it when the MC validated this request during a session after I had emphatically denied. The MC said I was stonewalling.


My sister-in-law (WW's sister) lives out of state and I called her. The SIL wanted to know if WW was still staying at a hotel after this past weekend. When I told the SIL that WW was still at a hotel, she was disappointed and told their mother. My MIL in turn called WW and told her to get back home. This was during the day when WW was at work.

This is where I would start. By not calling them you are enabling the affair. Pick the phone up and make those calls. Methodically call all of her family and the OM's family to let them know the affair has continued. If she wants to leave, kiss her goodbye, but tell her you will do the right thing and will not entertain her blackmail.


He is a fool and doesn't have the slightest idea what he is doing.


She was seeing the OM and your MIL knows it.

If your wife loses her job, it will be because of her affair and no other reason. You can't protect her job at the expense of your marriage. If she does, she will be entitled to COBRA insurance so don't let this stop you from exposing at work. Her employer needs to know that she is a legal risk and is very unprofessional. She is risking their business with this vendor with her horrendous behavior.

We have an exposure template letter you can use, but you most certainly should expose to both employers.

Want to see what Dr Harley, the founder of Marriage Builders, would have said about her need for "space" to go "think?"


He would have told you this is an indication the affair is still on.

Listen to MelodyLane...she personally advised my wife on this very board 6 years ago and we have recovered our marriage under her wise guidance.

My wife and I both post here on MB and my wife is very grateful for EVERYTHING I did, including the snooping and plotting with my mil (her mother) to extract her from her affair and save her from compounding the biggest mistake she ever made in her life.

Eventually your wife will either thank you or go on her miserable way and you'll be better off without her. Either way...you will make it with the honor and integrity of knowing you did all you could to save her and your family.

Welcome to MB,

Mr. Wondering

Ditto to what MelodyLane said about the quote from Dr. H about "needing space".

If you "need space" to think, you go to the park, to the terrace level of your home, but NOT to live in a hotel. The first two letters of the word ho-tel tells you alot about what can go on there (besides a vacation).

Just read my thread about what I saw at one last week on our family vacation.

She wants space to carry on her illict, immoral affair.

You need to expose to work like yesterday and have no mercy. The contact thru their professions is what keeps the affair going. It is their way to meet and have contact that can BE EXPLAINED.

Explain the need for any contact between them away asap.

T/J: Hello to the wonderful Wonderings! Hugs to you and the Mrs!

The Wonderings went thru this too. They came through the other side. You need to have as many on your side as possible, and any work contact is their "safe zone" a comfortable place they can retreat too when the heat of the real world is on them..

So what would your good sense tell you? REMOVE the safety of their contact and using work as an explanation to have that contact. Make them be UNDER AN ELECTRON MICROSCOPE when at work, and hopefully the posom will lose his job, but ONE OF THEM HAS TO GO.

There can be NO SAFE ZONE for the affair!

Welcome to Marriage Builders, weolm. I'm so sorry for what you're going through right now.

Oof - you titled your thread very well, friend. She is very foggy right now, for a few reasons. The first one is that she is still in contact with OM. Understand and acknowledge that, so you can get your battle plan in place to kill this A.

I'm going to take some of your comments in order:

Don't protect your children's insurance at the expense of your marriage. You're placing them first in your priorities, which is laudable, but as you will learn is also skewed. They can get uninsured health care for sore throats,etc. if your WW if fired for screwing around. There is also COBRA insurance for help in the short term.

Tell us more about this. What did it say? How was it delivered to OM?

Dump this fool, chop-chop, and stop giving him your hard-earned money. He doesn't know how to deal with a marriage that is being shaken by an affair.

Waywards lie. It's what they do best. They lie to themselves. They lie to their spouse. They lie to their families and employers. They are LIARS. Believe nothing that she says.

See my last comment.

I'm not sure what your current arrangement is, so I can't comment on that. And you can't tie her to the couch and make her stay. She's a big girl. However, she needs to understand that she will be leaving your home without your children. You will change the locks. She will not be allowed to come and go to suit her adulterous lifestyle.

She needs a big, steaming cup of reality, weolm. Give that to her.

Oh, and another thing: tie up any family money so she can't wipe out your accounts in order to enable her affair. That money is for you, her and the kids. Not her apartment. Not her affair partner. Get the money out of her reach first, then let her know that.

No, MIL is out of state. MIL told me she will welcome me in her home but not her own daughter. WW and her mother have only spoken a couple times in the last month since exposure. The entire family of WW is behind me.

What can they say to WW? Every time they try to be forceful she withdraws farther. They keep coming to me asking what they can do. The only thing I can tell them is to get her thinking of the consequences, which she is not because of the fog.

Is she staying at a hotel on her away nights? Where is the hotel? And where does the OM live?

This is great, weolm! They're putting pressure on her! You wouldn't believe the number of in-laws who don't get involved! They are excellent resources for you. Tell them to keep up the good work!She can't handle the scrutiny from them, so she's running from them. Very nice. Because she can run, but she can't hide.

Arrangement is to split time at home 50/50 while other is away. As I mentioned, I objected to this but MC said I was stonewalling and WW needed to get her space. I have said on many occasions that plenty of space can be found in the house and that I will respect her space at home.



I gave it to her and told her to sign it and give it to him. She says she did. She may have or may not have, it doesn't really matter because she told me in so many words that she didn't want to give it to him.

NC Letter:

Dear XXX,

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best wife that he deserves.
Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all non-professional contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.

My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he will also be told of any attempts at contact from you.

Sincerely,


WW

We are pricelining hotels. She is telling me which hotel but I can't go check up at night because of the kids. OM lives out of state, however, works often in our city. I have no idea where he is though because OMW has started D proceedings. Before I found out about the A, he had convinced his boss to get him an apartment in our city. I bet that plan hasn't changed.

How do you know the OMW has started divorce proceedings?

Okay, a couple of strategic errors - nothing you can't recover:

You get your butt back home. You DO NOT LEAVE. Why in the world would YOU leave?? You've done nothing wrong! Let her know that this deal is NOW OFF. You're giving her the best of all worlds for her affair if you don't! GO HOME, weolm. I can't emphasize this enough!

If she needs space, find a cozy spot in the garage. Set up a camp cot with a nice little night stand next to it with a reading lamp. Tell her she can spend all the 'space time' she needs out there.

Pretty good letter. Too bad he never saw it. We're going to eventually help you with a No Contact letter, but SHE'S going to write it, YOU'RE going to approve of it, and YOU'RE going to mail it.

Did I mention your MC is an idiot? He probably flunked out of his first career choice in college.

I'm not being mean, weolm. I did the MC thing too - they're typically very earnest, nice people. But they don't have the first CLUE about saving a marriage.

Oh mercy, this is SO true. weolm, I am the victim of an emotional affair that played a big part in the destruction or our marriage. The re-writing of history and manufacturing of grievances really took me by surprise and messed up my head before I found MB and the folks here explained to me what was happening. Be prepared for this - and a lot worse - because WWs will do and say just about anything to justify their affair.

The EA changed my wife's personality. Expect the same.

Welcome to MB. You're getting good advice.

God Bless,
Linus