Background: Married 11 years and together 16, first marriage for both. Two young children, 6 and 4. We were both traveling considerably for work when the EA started summer of 2010. PA started January 2011. WW asked for �trial separation� around Valentine�s Day. OM�s wife exposed to me at the beginning of March 2011. WW has been exposed to her family, who is 100% pro-marriage. No employer exposure due to concerns of termination, which would result in loss of insurance for the kids. WW and OM don�t work together, but are client/vendor.
After the exposure, I implemented the concept of an inviting home and demanded NC. NC letter was delivered but I don�t feel it was sincere. We have been to two MC sessions and one individual session with the same MC. WW requested �space� and MC agreed that it would be a good idea. This time was to allow WW to �think about if she wanted to work things out.� We are alternating time away from home for one month. WW has been sorry for the pain I have been put through but not remorseful. She tells me about how much she is in love with OM, even though they are not seeing each other or communicating. We have an agreement that WW will tell me when they have contact. Since this agreement was put in place, she has told me of one time that OM contacted her. Every time I ask about something regarding OM, she says that she doesn�t know because she is not allowed to talk to him. I don�t believe her. This is not the first time OM has been in an A and apparently is now going through D.
WW took children on spring break to visit her sister and nephews (8 hour drive) last week. They had plans to go to a theme park and WW invited me to come for the day. I went and it was awkward at first but I ended up having a good time.
Talked to WW�s sister this past Wednesday to thank her for the weekend. Sister asked if WW was back at home, and I told her that she was not. 30 minutes after the call, I received a phone call from WW saying it was over because WW�s mother called WW to tell her to get home and that WW�s mother would never have anything to do with OM. I asked her when she made this decision and she said �Just now�, however, this is the feeling I have been getting since exposure. She said that just because I have turned into the �husband of the year� over the last month, it doesn�t change the past. I came home Wednesday night and WW was furious because it was supposed to be my night away due to our arrangement. I told WW that the arrangement was to give her time to think. Now that she made her decision, the arrangement changed and I wanted to sleep at home. WW also demanded that I stop talking to her sister.
On Thursday, WW and I had a talk in which WW said that she doesn�t love me and not capable of ever loving me again. She says she tried to bring up her unhappiness before the A but I wouldn�t listen. (I will accept some responsibility for this because I didn�t recognize it, but also that I sometimes need to be hit over the head with info. That being said, WW�s comments at the time weren�t delivered with much emphasis.) She didn�t flat out say again that it is over, but that is what she meant. I told WW we need to put the house on the market and she said that it can wait. She wants to get an apartment and expects that we would commute using the same arrangement we currently have. At first I told her that I didn�t want to leave and I couldn�t force her to do anything. Then I reconsidered and said I would continue thinking that it will prolong the process and allow more time for her to come back to reality.
How do I get her out of the fog?
Hi weolm, welcome to Marriage Builders. You are in the right place.
A big part of the problem is that the affair is still going hot and heavy and is being facilitated by your sleeping away part of the time. There is absolutely no legitimate reason to do this other than to facilitate her affair. You should not leave your home or your children just so she can she can carry on her affair unimpeded.
That is what we call
ENABLING. And many states look at this as abandonment when you leave your family like this. This is the WORST time in the world to leave your children when they need you the most.
WW requested �space� and MC agreed that it would be a good idea. This time was to allow WW to �think about if she wanted to work things out.�
And as any credible "counselor" would tell you, this only means she wants you out of her hair so she can carry on her affair. Your "MC" has been facilitating her affair at the expense of your marriage. If she needed to "think" she can do that anywhere. If she needs "space" she can go out in the garage. But neither of you need to leave to achieve either of those objectives, that is silly.
Your counselor is unqualified and does not know what he/she is doing. I would strongly advise you dump this person before he/she causes any MORE damage.
So, the reason your wife is still in a fog is because her affair is still going hot and heavy. She is not telling you about her continued contact. If you would put a GPS on her car, flexispy on her phone and a keylogger on her computer, you would find evidence of the ongoing affair.
Talked to WW�s sister this past Wednesday to thank her for the weekend. Sister asked if WW was back at home, and I told her that she was not. 30 minutes after the call, I received a phone call from WW saying it was over because WW�s mother called WW to tell her to get home and that WW�s mother would never have anything to do with OM.
What does this all mean? Where was your wife during this time?
On Thursday, WW and I had a talk in which WW said that she doesn�t love me and not capable of ever loving me again. She says she tried to bring up her unhappiness before the A but I wouldn�t listen. (I will accept some responsibility for this because I didn�t recognize it, but also that I sometimes need to be hit over the head with info. That being said, WW�s comments at the time weren�t delivered with much emphasis.) She didn�t flat out say again that it is over, but that is what she meant. I told WW we need to put the house on the market and she said that it can wait. She wants to get an apartment and expects that we would commute using the same arrangement we currently have. At first I told her that I didn�t want to leave and I couldn�t force her to do anything. Then I reconsidered and said I would continue thinking that it will prolong the process and allow more time for her to come back to reality.
All of this is what we call fogbabble. And let me explain. An adulterer is high on an affair. It is an addiction and the mentality of an adulterer is very much like a falling down drunk. Once you GET that, you understand your wife. She will rewrite history to justify her affair. You will be shocked at some of the grievances she manufactures to justify her affair and shift the blame to you. This is how she justifies the affair in her mind.
So when she says stuff like the above, ask yourself if you would listen to the rantings of a falling down drunk and how relevant it would be? Ask yourself if you can reason with a falling down drunk? Of course you can't.
The solution is to NOT listen to her rantings and understand that it is a result of the FOG and focus, instead, on BUSTING UP THE AFFAIR. Killing the affair is the equivalent of taking the drink away from the drunk. Once you do that, he can sober up.
So that is your mission, Sir: KILL THE AFFAIR.
And we can help you with that step.
Talked to WW�s sister this past Wednesday to thank her for the weekend. Sister asked if WW was back at home, and I told her that she was not. 30 minutes after the call, I received a phone call from WW saying it was over because WW�s mother called WW to tell her to get home and that WW�s mother would never have anything to do with OM.
Apparently your MIL KNEW she was with the OM, right? Have you called the OMW to inform her?
Thanks for the response ML. I also suspect that this A is continuing. WW has demanded that I not talk to her family as well as the OM's spouse. Said she would leave immediately.
Your "MC" has been facilitating her affair at the expense of your marriage. If she needs "space" she can go out in the garage. But neither of you need to leave to achieve either of those objectives, that is silly.
This is what I was thinking too. The MC is certified LMFT and claims to be "pro-marriage". I about lost it when the MC validated this request during a session after I had emphatically denied. The MC said I was stonewalling.
What does this all mean? Where was your wife during this time?
My sister-in-law (WW's sister) lives out of state and I called her. The SIL wanted to know if WW was still staying at a hotel after this past weekend. When I told the SIL that WW was still at a hotel, she was disappointed and told their mother. My MIL in turn called WW and told her to get back home. This was during the day when WW was at work.
Thanks for the response ML. I also suspect that this A is continuing. WW has demanded that I not talk to her family as well as the OM's spouse. Said she would leave immediately.
This is where I would start. By not calling them you are enabling the affair. Pick the phone up and make those calls. Methodically call all of her family and the OM's family to let them know the affair has continued. If she wants to leave, kiss her goodbye, but tell her you will do the right thing and will not entertain her blackmail.
This is what I was thinking too. The MC is certified LMFT and claims to be "pro-marriage". I about lost it when the MC validated this request during a session after I had emphatically denied. The MC said I was stonewalling.
He is a fool and doesn't have the slightest idea what he is doing.
My sister-in-law (WW's sister) lives out of state and I called her. The SIL wanted to know if WW was still staying at a hotel after this past weekend. When I told the SIL that WW was still at a hotel, she was disappointed and told their mother. My MIL in turn called WW and told her to get back home. This was during the day when WW was at work.
She was seeing the OM and your MIL knows it.
No employer exposure due to concerns of termination, which would result in loss of insurance for the kids. WW and OM don�t work together, but are client/vendor.
If your wife loses her job, it will be because of her affair and no other reason. You can't protect her job at the expense of your marriage. If she does, she will be entitled to COBRA insurance so don't let this stop you from exposing at work. Her employer needs to know that she is a legal risk and is very unprofessional. She is risking their business with this vendor with her horrendous behavior.
We have an exposure template letter you can use, but you most certainly should expose to both employers.
Your "MC" has been facilitating her affair at the expense of your marriage. If she needs "space" she can go out in the garage. But neither of you need to leave to achieve either of those objectives, that is silly.
This is what I was thinking too. The MC is certified LMFT and claims to be "pro-marriage". I about lost it when the MC validated this request during a session after I had emphatically denied. The MC said I was stonewalling.
Want to see what Dr Harley, the founder of Marriage Builders, would have said about her need for "space" to go "think?"
"I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time.
Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings."
He would have told you this is an indication the affair is still on.
Listen to MelodyLane...she personally advised my wife on this very board 6 years ago and we have recovered our marriage under her wise guidance.
My wife and I both post here on MB and my wife is very grateful for EVERYTHING I did, including the snooping and plotting with my mil (her mother) to extract her from her affair and save her from compounding the biggest mistake she ever made in her life.
Eventually your wife will either thank you or go on her miserable way and you'll be better off without her. Either way...you will make it with the honor and integrity of knowing you did all you could to save her and your family.
Welcome to MB,
Mr. Wondering
Ditto to what MelodyLane said about the quote from Dr. H about "needing space".
If you "need space" to think, you go to the park, to the terrace level of your home, but NOT to live in a hotel. The first two letters of the word ho-tel tells you alot about what can go on there (besides a vacation).
Just read my thread about what I saw at one last week on our family vacation.
She wants space to carry on her illict, immoral affair.
You need to expose to work like yesterday and have no mercy. The contact thru their professions is what keeps the affair going. It is their way to meet and have contact that can BE EXPLAINED.
Explain the need for any contact between them away asap.
T/J: Hello to the wonderful Wonderings! Hugs to you and the Mrs!
The Wonderings went thru this too. They came through the other side. You need to have as many on your side as possible, and any work contact is their "safe zone" a comfortable place they can retreat too when the heat of the real world is on them..
So what would your good sense tell you? REMOVE the safety of their contact and using work as an explanation to have that contact. Make them be UNDER AN ELECTRON MICROSCOPE when at work, and hopefully the posom will lose his job, but ONE OF THEM HAS TO GO.
There can be NO SAFE ZONE for the affair!
Welcome to Marriage Builders, weolm. I'm so sorry for what you're going through right now.
Oof - you titled your thread very well, friend. She is very foggy right now, for a few reasons. The first one is that she is still in contact with OM. Understand and acknowledge that, so you can get your battle plan in place to kill this A.
I'm going to take some of your comments in order:
No employer exposure due to concerns of termination, which would result in loss of insurance for the kids. WW and OM don�t work together, but are client/vendor.
Don't protect your children's insurance at the expense of your marriage. You're placing them first in your priorities, which is laudable, but as you will learn is also skewed. They can get uninsured health care for sore throats,etc. if your WW if fired for screwing around. There is also COBRA insurance for help in the short term.
NC letter was delivered but I don�t feel it was sincere.
Tell us more about this. What did it say? How was it delivered to OM?
WW requested �space� and MC agreed that it would be a good idea.
Dump this fool, chop-chop, and stop giving him your hard-earned money. He doesn't know how to deal with a marriage that is being shaken by an affair.
We have an agreement that WW will tell me when they have contact.
Waywards lie. It's what they do best. They lie to themselves. They lie to their spouse. They lie to their families and employers. They are LIARS. Believe nothing that she says.
30 minutes after the call, I received a phone call from WW saying it was over because WW�s mother called WW to tell her to get home and that WW�s mother would never have anything to do with OM.
See my last comment.
She wants to get an apartment and expects that we would commute using the same arrangement we currently have.
I'm not sure what your current arrangement is, so I can't comment on that. And you can't tie her to the couch and make her stay. She's a big girl. However, she needs to understand that she will be leaving your home without your children. You will change the locks. She will not be allowed to come and go to suit her adulterous lifestyle.
She needs a big, steaming cup of reality, weolm. Give that to her.
Oh, and another thing: tie up any family money so she can't wipe out your accounts in order to enable her affair. That money is for you, her and the kids. Not her apartment. Not her affair partner. Get the money out of her reach first, then let her know that.
Apparently your MIL KNEW she was with the OM, right? Have you called the OMW to inform her?
No, MIL is out of state. MIL told me she will welcome me in her home but not her own daughter. WW and her mother have only spoken a couple times in the last month since exposure. The entire family of WW is behind me.
What can they say to WW? Every time they try to be forceful she withdraws farther. They keep coming to me asking what they can do. The only thing I can tell them is to get her thinking of the consequences, which she is not because of the fog.
What can they say to WW? Every time they try to be forceful she withdraws farther. They keep coming to me asking what they can do. The only thing I can tell them is to get her thinking of the consequences, which she is not because of the fog.
Is she staying at a hotel on her away nights? Where is the hotel? And where does the OM live?
What can they say to WW? Every time they try to be forceful she withdraws farther.
This is great, weolm! They're putting pressure on her! You wouldn't believe the number of in-laws who don't get involved! They are excellent resources for you. Tell them to keep up the good work!She can't handle the scrutiny from them, so she's running from them. Very nice. Because she can run, but she can't hide.
I'm not sure what your current arrangement is
Arrangement is to split time at home 50/50 while other is away. As I mentioned, I objected to this but MC said I was stonewalling and WW needed to get her space. I have said on many occasions that plenty of space can be found in the house and that I will respect her space at home.
Tell us more about this. What did it say? How was it delivered to OM?
I gave it to her and told her to sign it and give it to him. She says she did. She may have or may not have, it doesn't really matter because she told me in so many words that she didn't want to give it to him.
NC Letter:
Dear XXX,
The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best wife that he deserves.
Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all non-professional contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.
My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he will also be told of any attempts at contact from you.
Sincerely,
WW
Is she staying at a hotel on her away nights? Where is the hotel? And where does the OM live?
We are pricelining hotels. She is telling me which hotel but I can't go check up at night because of the kids. OM lives out of state, however, works often in our city. I have no idea where he is though because OMW has started D proceedings. Before I found out about the A, he had convinced his boss to get him an apartment in our city. I bet that plan hasn't changed.
We are pricelining hotels. She is telling me which hotel but I can't go check up at night because of the kids. OM lives out of state, however, works often in our city. I have no idea where he is though because OMW has started D proceedings. Before I found out about the A, he had convinced his boss to get him an apartment in our city. I bet that plan hasn't changed.
How do you know the OMW has started divorce proceedings?
Okay, a couple of strategic errors - nothing you can't recover:
Arrangement is to split time at home 50/50 while other is away. As I mentioned, I objected to this but MC said I was stonewalling and WW needed to get her space. I have said on many occasions that plenty of space can be found in the house and that I will respect her space at home.
You get your butt back home. You DO NOT LEAVE. Why in the world would YOU leave?? You've done nothing wrong! Let her know that this deal is NOW OFF. You're giving her the best of all worlds for her affair if you don't! GO HOME, weolm. I can't emphasize this enough!
If she needs space, find a cozy spot in the garage. Set up a camp cot with a nice little night stand next to it with a reading lamp. Tell her she can spend all the 'space time' she needs out there.
I gave it to her and told her to sign it and give it to him. She says she did.
Pretty good letter. Too bad he never saw it. We're going to eventually help you with a No Contact letter, but SHE'S going to write it, YOU'RE going to approve of it, and YOU'RE going to mail it.
Did I mention your MC is an idiot? He probably flunked out of his first career choice in college.
I'm not being mean, weolm. I did the MC thing too - they're typically very earnest, nice people. But they don't have the first CLUE about saving a marriage.
She will rewrite history to justify her affair. You will be shocked at some of the grievances she manufactures to justify her affair and shift the blame to you. This is how she justifies the affair in her mind.
Oh mercy, this is SO true. weolm, I am the victim of an emotional affair that played a big part in the destruction or our marriage. The re-writing of history and manufacturing of grievances really took me by surprise and messed up my head before I found MB and the folks here explained to me what was happening. Be prepared for this - and a lot worse - because WWs will do and say just about anything to justify their affair.
The EA changed my wife's personality. Expect the same.
Welcome to MB. You're getting good advice.
God Bless,
Linus
How do I get her out of the fog?
Well, pardner, if you ask the question you better buckle up for the answer.
Most of this is contained in Mel's and Mb's postings, but I thought I'd give another voice to it.
No employer exposure due to concerns of termination, which would result in loss of insurance for the kids.
Too bad. Do you want a marriage, or cheap health insurance? (Health insurance builders is a different website.) She and POSOM are going to have to part business relations eventually anyway, so you might as well use the need to expose as a tool to kill the affair. Ask for the "Brit's Brat" letter for modelling what has to be said.
WW requested �space� and MC agreed that it would be a good idea.
Have no more to do with this stupid SOB. Terminally moronic conflict avoiders are no help in fighting active affairs.
She tells me about how much she is in love with OM,
Dude, hire a blood-hound - your testicles are missing! You sat there and accepted that from her mouth, without telling her to shut up? What would she have to tell you before she was out of line - ***edit***
I came home Wednesday night and WW was furious because it was supposed to be my night away....WW also demanded that I stop talking to her sister.
(Sigh of relief) Okay, we found the missing testicles - WW is using them, and what a set they are proving to be!
She wants to get an apartment.....
....***edit***
So given what we have to work with, the answer to your question is "KILL THE AFFAIR", and the best way to do that is to "RUIN HER (CHEATING) LIFE"!
1- You EXPOSE to everyone - her business, HIS business, both families, her olcd sorority sisters, her clergy, her "facebook" community - EVERYBODY THAT KNOWS HER NAME.
2 - You cut off every form of support she gets from you - financial accounts, car payment (What the hell arrangement do you have about commuting?)
3 - You explore your state's laws regarding infidelity and its effect on divorce settlements.
4 - You arm yourself with a small mini-audio-recorder, and are never without it in the presence of WW. This will help protect you from the bogus-domestic-violence complaint that has become the fogged-up WW's weapon of choice.
5 - And stop acting like a doormat!
Great advice everyone, thanks for your input. A few questions and comments.
1. I thought one of the things I should do is to provide a loving environment and avoid conflict. When she fog babbles, how do I tell WW she is full of crap and provide that type of environment at the same time?
2. When I go home, if she also stays, do I kick her out? If she goes, which is my expectation, I've been told that changing the locks is considered abandonment.
3. WW has a right to the see the kids. Do I just demand to go anywhere they go and not let them out of my sight?
4. At this time, the family cannot afford to live without WW's income. If we could sell the house tomorrow, sure, but in this housing market WW's income is required to help pay the mortgage, bills and put food on the table. I really don't want to be an enabler of the affair, but if she gets canned, we wouldn't have a place to live. This will be changing due to some additional income I will be receiving, but probably not until summer which isn't soon enough.
Just to confirm others - if you think you can get her out by pleasing her and granting every wish, you are seriously wrong.
I was there - I let my wife have her apartment to "think". It accomplished NOTHING and did not save me from FR that came months later. It was such a stupid idea and I'm still angry to myself that I was so weak and let it happen (and that money spent is lost also, of course).
I sense you are actually on the right track when you objected your MC-s ideas about "needing space" just do not let them speak you out of things which you do know are right things to do! Wait, you should drop that MC altogether and stop listen the "solutions" your WW and MC are producing.
And please - speak about the situation to OMW directly.
Great advice everyone, thanks for your input. A few questions and comments.
1. I thought one of the things I should do is to provide a loving environment and avoid conflict. When she fog babbles, how do I tell WW she is full of crap and provide that type of environment at the same time?
Where did you get this? Have you read about
carrot and STICK in plan A?
You have to create conflict about the affair as much as you can - this does not mean that you are not the loving husband. But you can create the conflict without namecalling and lovebusting.
2. When I go home, if she also stays, do I kick her out? If she goes, which is my expectation, I've been told that changing the locks is considered abandonment.
No you do not kick her out. Why? If she goes then you cannot stop her but you stay. I do not know about the abandonment, I hope some people with legal background will comment on that.
3. WW has a right to the see the kids. Do I just demand to go anywhere they go and not let them out of my sight?
Please elaborate that. Do you suspect that your kids are introduced to OM sometimes? If they are then you must object that loudly.
4. At this time, the family cannot afford to live without WW's income. If we could sell the house tomorrow, sure, but in this housing market WW's income is required to help pay the mortgage, bills and put food on the table. I really don't want to be an enabler of the affair, but if she gets canned, we wouldn't have a place to live. This will be changing due to some additional income I will be receiving, but probably not until summer which isn't soon enough.
Then you have to create a plan. It's less than 2 months until summer (if you live on northern hemisphere of course). Ask help from your parents and friends. Because if OM and WW continue to work together then divorce will be very likely and you have to sell the house anyway.
WW and OM don�t work together, but are client/vendor.
I just realised that I had the same situation. It should considered the same as working together. My wife left that job, it was the only way.
Where did you get this? Have you read about
carrot and STICK in plan A?
You have to create conflict about the affair as much as you can - this does not mean that you are not the loving husband. But you can create the conflict without namecalling and lovebusting.
Yes, I've read it but forgotten. Thanks for sharing that again.
Please elaborate that. Do you suspect that your kids are introduced to OM sometimes? If they are then you must object that loudly.
No, I don't think kids have ever been exposed to OM. Let's say WW wants to take kids to park or out to eat. Should I let them go alone? I don't have any suspicions of fleeing or foulplay. She is a good Mom, with one big exception.
I'm not a divorce attorney so my advice on the subject is worth what you paid for it...
however, I am an attorney (taxation is my specialty though I've been reading divorce law and cases and advising people here for 6 years)
it is my belief and opinion that most likely in whatever state you are in that until a court orders otherwise you both have 100% custody of your children. You can't stop her and she can't stop you. If either of you attempt to abscond, abduct or prevent the other from seeing their children it can and likely will be used against you as evidence of attempted parental alienation. Now of course you can attempt to defend yourself from such allegations by having really good documented reasons for keeping her from her kids (such as evidence she's exposing them to OM and you suspect/have really good knowledge that she's about to do it again) but other than that...you can't stop her for seeing her kids. In fact...her absconding with them away from the marital familial home has been used by several BH's here to assist them with winning primary custody of their children.
You want to appear the level headed reasonable one. You won't leave your home and the kids SHOULDN'T leave either. If she insists of taking them...you CAN argue and attempt to persuade her otherwise but you can't physically stop her just as she can't physically stop you from picking your kids up from school the next day. All the while you attempt to document how reasonable and calm you are being trying to resolve any dispute about the children while documenting her as being irrational and just downright harmful to the children.
Until you bust up the affair...busting up the affair remains operational priority number one. Exposure at work is just necessary to save your family. It's a tough call and I understand your hesitancy but until the affair is OVER and KILLED and the consequences to your wife and, most particularly, the OM outweigh the benefits...your marriage is toast. The sooner you up the ante and expose the more impact it MAY have. Conversely...the longer you wait...the less effective it will become. Time is of the essence. Your wife is counting on you to save her. Your kids need you to step and save their mom. She doesn't know it but she's already got her soulmate and it's YOU. You vowed to protect her...in good times and bad...in sickness and health. Well she's soulsick right now and the times are tough...but you need to fight for her. You both sound educated and completely capable of overcoming any temporary economic hardship exposure MAY (you never know) produce. You won't "overcome" anything until the affair is killed.
Remember...be sure to focus just as much energy exposing OM as it is my theory that getting OM's to end things is often a quicker solution than the ever slow process of deprogramming and extracting a wayward wife from a "love" affair. OM is soon to be single and have a world full of women to pursue...make yours too much trouble for him and he'll just dump her and move on.
Mr. Wondering
Morning update:
Working on getting some financial support so I can expose to the workplace, however, it may take a little time.
We had swim lessons for the four year old. Talked about summer camp and other stuff, which was good. Then she asked if I looked into apartments for her or if she should do it herself. I told her that I would prefer she stay at home but I couldn't force her to. I was done staying in hotels and that I wouldn't stay at apartment. WW said that she owned 50% of the house and that she didn't want me there when she was there. I told WW that owning 50% doesn't mean I can only stay there 50% of the time and that I would not interfere with her while she is at home. WW said that she was going to talk to an attorney and have a judge decide. I told her that I'm sure a judge would like to hear the story of how she has broken up our marriage and had extramarital relations and how they are continuing to this day. She countered that she has only texted him one time and that all other communication was via email strictly for work (first time I've heard of the emails!) and the judge would understand that she was unhappy before the A. I told her that it hurt me to hear that and to stop rewriting history. Also that WW can go ahead and do what she needs to do, but that is not how I want things to turn out and she should expect that the OM will be subpoenaed if it gets that far. Should I let OM know that WW threatened going to court and that if we do, he will be subpoenaed?
We left the lessons and she coaxed the kids into riding in her car. After we got home, she left at Noon because it is "her night away" and that she would be back for the neighborhood Easter Egg Hunt tomorrow. Since leaving, she has called to talk to the kids and I could hear the emotion in her voice. I didn't ask her what was wrong, should I have?
Also, forgot to mention in all of this that about two weeks ago, OM told WW that she was just a number and that she didn't mean anything to him. I know this because when he told her, she flipped out and said she never wanted to see either one of us ever again. Since that time, OM must have smoothed things over by telling WW that he had to say that to get OMW off his back or something similar.
Great advice everyone, thanks for your input. A few questions and comments.
1. I thought one of the things I should do is to provide a loving environment and avoid conflict. When she fog babbles, how do I tell WW she is full of crap and provide that type of environment at the same time?
...
read the whole thread.Loving environment AND consequences of her behavior. BOTH.
You want there to be conflict within her.
You avoid FIGHTS with her by changing the subject or walking away or fog talk response.
You do not "tell" WW she is full-o-crap right now.
Why waste effort on things that do not work?
Also, forgot to mention in all of this that about two weeks ago, OM told WW that she was just a number and that she didn't mean anything to him.
When an opportunity presents itself, you say to WW:
"You are just a number to me. You are number one and you mean everything to me."
Then .... smile, and change the subject. "I really could use a coffee now. I'm going out. Can I bring you anything?"
It does not matter that OM tried to "correct this" ... it will be burned into WW's brain forever. Wayward wives are masters at "keeping score".
Counter-balance his comment. Be sly.
OM is soon to be single and have a world full of women to pursue...make yours too much trouble for him and he'll just dump her and move on.
This is SO IMPORTANT please, pay attention!
No, I don't think kids have ever been exposed to OM.
Ask the kids.
"Did you ever meet any man friend of Mommie? His name is "OMTheDork".
Do you have a GPS on WW's car?
From carrot/stick thread.
Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Exposure makes the infidel furious
stay calm
breathe
no one can stay furious forever ... being furious is exhausting ... consumes a lot of energy ... let the furious infidel fume and exhaust his/her self
YOU stay cool
You will hear:
"That's it. We are never going to stay married after what YOU did."
"I am moving out now, thanks to you."
"You are getting OP in trouble at home."
"Now our kids will have a broken home thanks to you."
blah blah blah
You respond to all the raging comments: I am still holding out hope for our marriage.
You stay calm
You don't argue
You don't explain
You do not preach
You do not educate
~and~ you do NOT apologize for standing up for truth and marriage and keeping your family intact
YOU calmly re-state your belief that there is hope for the marriage ....
if things get out of hand ... excuse yourself and go for a walk or a drive ...
remember ... exposure makes the already foggy spouse act insane ... but it is temporary
Ask the kids.
"Did you ever meet any man friend of Mommie? His name is "OMTheDork".
Do you have a GPS on WW's car?
I will ask the kids. What should I do if they say "Yes"? I would think that I should tell the kids that he is a bad man and also get a restraining order filed for OM. Anything else?
No GPS yet. Will be getting one soon.
Morning update:
Working on getting some financial support so I can expose to the workplace, however, it may take a little time.
We had swim lessons for the four year old. Talked about summer camp and other stuff, which was good. Then she asked if I looked into apartments for her or if she should do it herself. I told her that I would prefer she stay at home but I couldn't force her to. I was done staying in hotels and that I wouldn't stay at apartment. WW said that she owned 50% of the house and that she didn't want me there when she was there. I told WW that owning 50% doesn't mean I can only stay there 50% of the time and that I would not interfere with her while she is at home. WW said that she was going to talk to an attorney and have a judge decide. I told her that I'm sure a judge would like to hear the story of how she has broken up our marriage and had extramarital relations and how they are continuing to this day. She countered that she has only texted him one time and that all other communication was via email strictly for work (first time I've heard of the emails!) and the judge would understand that she was unhappy before the A. I told her that it hurt me to hear that and to stop rewriting history. Also that WW can go ahead and do what she needs to do, but that is not how I want things to turn out and she should expect that the OM will be subpoenaed if it gets that far. Should I let OM know that WW threatened going to court and that if we do, he will be subpoenaed?
We left the lessons and she coaxed the kids into riding in her car. After we got home, she left at Noon because it is "her night away" and that she would be back for the neighborhood Easter Egg Hunt tomorrow. Since leaving, she has called to talk to the kids and I could hear the emotion in her voice. I didn't ask her what was wrong, should I have?
So, there is no plan here? Did you read any of our posts? By the time you wait around to expose in the workplace your marriage will be over anyway. You won't have the benefit of the job when you are divorced. This affair has gone so far because you are allowing it to become more and more entrenched every day. The more entrenched it becomes, the harder it is to kill. Your wife rightfully interprets your COMPLACENCE as a lack of caring. You won't ever save your marriage with that approach.
Right now you and your kids are at the mercy of a marriage wrecking wayward. She is driving the ship. And your marriage and your child's family is going to end up crashed on the rocks if you don't get off your [censored] and get to work, Sir.
HOPE is not a plan. Your plan leads to DIVORCE.
Now, are you ready to get to work or you are you going to continue with your own failed plan? You do realize your own plan is not working, don't you?
We left the lessons and she coaxed the kids into riding in her car. After we got home, she left at Noon because it is "her night away" and that she would be back for the neighborhood Easter Egg Hunt tomorrow. Since leaving, she has called to talk to the kids and I could hear the emotion in her voice. I didn't ask her what was wrong, should I have?
4
She is going off to meet her lover and what do you do? A BIG FAT NOTHING. Your complacency reflects a lack of caring.
I will ask the kids. What should I do if they say "Yes"?
Tell the kids that man is Mommy's boyfriend. Tell the kids that a married mommy is not supposed to have a boyfriend. Tell them it is wrong for mommy to have a boyfriend.
No GPS yet. Will be getting one soon.
Today.
weo, if you can be bothered to get off your dead [censored] and fight for your marriage, here is the plan I would execute. I know it is a little more work than your current "HOPE" plan, but it might be much more effective. No plan is a plan to FAIL and your plan is failing.
Sit down and execute a mass exposure today while the lovers are shagging each other at your wife's hotel room [that is paid for by your family money].
1. call the OM's wife and tell her your wife is off with her husband. Ask her for family information, such as the OM's parents and sibs phone #s so you can call them
2. expose the OM to his facebook friends and family. Find his facebook page and copy and paste all of his friends into a WORD doc. Prioritize the targets in order of importance, ie: family, married friends. Send them our sample letter fashioned to suit your situation [will post below]
SEND THEM PRIVATE MESSAGES SPACED OUT ONE MINUTE APART SO FB DOES NOT SHUT YOU DOWN FOR FLOODING
3. do the same to your WW's facebook page - change the picture on your FB page to one of both you and her
4. call your WW's entire family and tell them she is with the OM in a hotel room. Ask them to CALL HER AND USE THEIR INFLUENCE TO PERSUADE HER TO END HER AFFAIR
5. Find the hotel they are shagging at and make a personal appearance. Take a good male friend and show up there. Go stake out her car and be waiting when she and the OM arrive there. With CAMERA in hand
6. On Monday morning send off a CERTIFIED letter to the director of Human Resources, a key VP and both your wife and the OM's supervisors at their various companies and inform them of the affair. Be sure and cc all of those people on the letter.
While there are no guarantees, this is your BEST CHANCE at saving your marriage. Your current plan is to ENABLE the affair at the expense of your marriage and your children's family. If you want to save your marriage, you need to fight for it, otherwise you are headed towards disaster, Sir.
Facebook exposure suggestions
Dear friend of Skankyhola,
It is with great regret that I send this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years and have 3 heartbroken children. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.
I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.
I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.
I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.
Thank you, BW
Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney
To Whom It May Concern:
This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.
WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.
If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.
Regards,
BS
_________________________
" Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."
Dr Harley tells a man in your exact situation that he is an enabler and that if he had exposed at the workplace he might have saved his marriage [this man sat on his dead [censored] too until his wife filed for divorce and was leaving him for the OM -
THAT IS YOUR FUTURE]
RADIO CLIP HERE
I apologize in advance for my harshness. I am very frustrated by the lack of action in your situation when I know that it could make an amazing difference. Your wife is extremely brazen and flagrant with her affair and that is your fault, Sir. She has been able to get away with amazingly brazen and cruel behavior with no objection on your part. Enablers and conflict avoiders don't make it, period, and you are headed right towards divorce with your current plan of non action. I am on your side and only want to see you save your marriage.
Great advice everyone, thanks for your input. A few questions and comments.
1. I thought one of the things I should do is to provide a loving environment and avoid conflict. When she fog babbles, how do I tell WW she is full of crap and provide that type of environment at the same time?
2. When I go home, if she also stays, do I kick her out? If she goes, which is my expectation, I've been told that changing the locks is considered abandonment.
3. WW has a right to the see the kids. Do I just demand to go anywhere they go and not let them out of my sight?
4. At this time, the family cannot afford to live without WW's income. If we could sell the house tomorrow, sure, but in this housing market WW's income is required to help pay the mortgage, bills and put food on the table. I really don't want to be an enabler of the affair, but if she gets canned, we wouldn't have a place to live. This will be changing due to some additional income I will be receiving, but probably not until summer which isn't soon enough.
1. weolm, you don't wallow with her. Of course it's crap, but she's so fuzzy right now that she won't hear a word you say except "crap" and that'll just give her one more negative thought about you. ("I was trying to tell him my feelings, and he just said I was full of crap!!! Wwwaaaahhhh!!!
) Now, you don't have to sit and suffer through this garbage, either. Just change the subject. "I'm sorry you feel that way, dear - would you like to go out to dinner for pizza tonight?"
2. Nope. You don't kick her out, and she doesn't kick you out. You both live there. You go about your normal business, remembering to make your home a warm, inviting place.
3. You can't keep the kids from her and vice versa, unless you think they are in danger when they are with her. I don't see any signs of that. Do you?
4. If you wait until it's economically convenient, you will more than likely lose your marriage. I am amazed, truly, that you would even entertain this notion. Think about it: how are you going to keep the house when she divorces you?
OK, I'm going to do the workplace exposure. What do I have to lose if we get a D, they will find out sooner or later anyway. Might as well be now. I can tap into a 401K for funds, I'd have to give up half of it anyway.
Would you recommend that WWs parents be here when she finds out? They are behind me 100%. I don't want to find myself in a false DV dispute when she returns home. This is what the OMW did to the OM. I do have a voice recording where I said that I have never laid a finger on her in my life, which is 100% accurate. I can't recall if she gave a verbal or non-verbal acknowledgment. Will run through it tonight.
weolm, please take a look at the MB thread below. It's called "The Fantasy of Divorce" and I guarantee you, your WW thinks you're going to have something like this once she leaves and files.
It will help you if you read the thread and then immediately shut down your WW's notions of having this sort of arrangement. Make sure she knows that if you end up divorcing, she will be dead to you, she will not be your "friend" and there will be no more family gatherings of any kind. She'll be able to see the kids, of course, but never again will the two of you be present when the kids are there. That's for families and divorced people are NOT a family.
It's another bucket of ice-cold water you can use to break through some of the fog and entitlement.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2279757&page=1
weolm, please take a look at the MB thread below. It's called "The Fantasy of Divorce" and I guarantee you, your WW thinks you're going to have something like this once she leaves and files.
It will help you if you read the thread and then immediately shut down your WW's notions of having this sort of arrangement. Make sure she knows that if you end up divorcing, she will be dead to you, she will not be your "friend" and there will be no more family gatherings of any kind. She'll be able to see the kids, of course, but never again will the two of you be present when the kids are there. That's for families and divorced people are NOT a family.
It's another bucket of ice-cold water you can use to break through some of the fog and entitlement.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2279757&page=1Haven't read the thread yet but will do so tonight. She has already said most of the ideas you mention. She also said she has a friend that had a divorce and they got back together a few years later. Probably mentioned this so she could have me waiting in the wings when her A breaks up. I did tell her that wasn't for me, but not as emphatically as you outline above.
So, no response to any of my posts?
So, no response to any of my posts?
Look a couple of posts up. Your posts have motivated me to act now. I'm in the process of compiling the FB list and will mail letters on Monday. Some of the FB list includes coworkers, so they will find out sooner than HR or the Execs. I'm getting ready for all hell to break loose tonight. I'm pretty sure they are together tonight because WW usually calls to talk to the kids at dinner and bedtime. Tonight she called in between to tell me she wanted to say goodnight now. I said they wouldn't be going to bed for another hour or so and we could call her at that time and she declined. This is out of character for WW. She also seemed depressed when talking earlier today; she has been having dizzy spells off and on. Her voice was much perkier when talking this evening. Then at the end of the conversation, I asked if she was feeling any better and her voice went back to a different tone.
ok, good. Are you exposing to BOTH their facebook friends? Have you copied and pasted both of their lists into WORD docs?
And what about the phone call to the OMW? What about the OM's parents? Do you see their names on the OM's list?
When will you be calling her parents and sibs?
Let's talk here, because you need to be very thorough about this.
OM deleted his FB account when OMW exposed to me. I saw it for one day and it was gone the next.
I have WW FB copied and saved. Updated my profile pic to include WW, the kids, and me.
No access to OM's family. I can see the same last name on OMW's FB account, but they are all either sibs or extended family, no parents.
I haven't talked to OMW in about two weeks. She knows what has been going on, in fact, she exposed it to me. Is there something I need to let her know now?
I tried to talk to my SIL tonight but she is out to dinner at the place she was married of all places. I told her that it could wait until tomorrow. I can call my inlaws tonight, do you think I should tell them what I am about to do or wait until it is done?
OM deleted his FB account when OMW exposed to me. I saw it for one day and it was gone the next.
I would sign up under another name and see if you can see him. He might have blocked you.
I haven't talked to OMW in about two weeks. She knows what has been going on, in fact, she exposed it to me. Is there something I need to let her know now?
Of course. Call and let her know they are together tonight. Ask her for the contact information for the OM's parents and family members so you can call them in the morning. In the morning call them up and tell them about the affair. Ask them to use their influence to persuade the OM to leave your wife alone.
I tried to talk to my SIL tonight but she is out to dinner at the place she was married of all places. I told her that it could wait until tomorrow. I can call my inlaws tonight, do you think I should tell them what I am about to do or wait until it is done?
Ask your inlaws to call your WW TONIGHT and use their influence to persuade her to end her affair. Don't tell them what you are doing.
What about your parents? Have you told them yet?
No access to OM's family. I can see the same last name on OMW's FB account, but they are all either sibs or extended family, no parents.
But can't you see the OM's parents and family from those family members pages? If you can't get the OM's parents from those pages or from the OMW, then send all of the OM's sibs and extended family the facebook exposure letter and ask them to contact the OM's parents and have them CALL YOU ASAP.
Yes, I've told my parents.
Inlaws have attempted to persuade her on multiple occasions. These persuasions have been calm and cool from WWs father and ballistic from WWs mother. Will continue to press them to call her. Now I will ask that they call WW every day.
I'm not 100% sure they are together tonight, most likely, but I have no proof. Remember, OM lives about 6 hours away.
I apologize in advance for my harshness.
I accept your apology.
Yes, I've told my parents.
Inlaws have attempted to persuade her on multiple occasions. These persuasions have been calm and cool from WWs father and ballistic from WWs mother. Will continue to press them to call her. Now I will ask that they call WW every day.
I'm not 100% sure they are together tonight, most likely, but I have no proof. Remember, OM lives about 6 hours away.
Maybe your wife is in her hotel room reading her bible and playing solitaire?
C'mon, lets get real here. If you have any doubts about what she is doing, how about driving there?
Did you call the OMW yet?shaddup, Pep!
Did you call the OMW yet?
Couldn't get in touch with OMW. I think I found his parents via google. Will call in the morning.
Tonight she called in between to tell me she wanted to say goodnight now. I said they wouldn't be going to bed for another hour or so and we could call her at that time and she declined. This is out of character for WW.
Weolm, you've gotten all the advice you need already but you know why she "declined" getting her children to call her back, right?
Sorry, bud, but you've got to be on the phone with every damn person you know begging them to call your WW right now telling her to get her [censored] home.
Good job on moving on the exposure, by the way. It may be nice to have a member of her family at your home that day in case she trumps up a domestic violence charge.
Oh, and next time she calls to say goodnight, don't answer the phone. If she wants to say goodnight to your children, tell her to effing do it in person.
Earlier you asked about whether to call OM. Uh, yeah, call him right now. When he won't answer, leave him a message telling him who you are and that he is going to leave your wife alone, that this affair is over and he's pissed off every single member of her family. They will never accept him and he seriously doesn't need this kind of crap in his life. Tell him that he's going to back the hell off right now, because he doesn't stand a chance against all of you [emphasis on the plural]. Then hang up.
You can get this back on track. Having your wife's family on board is a huge plus. Mine were/are like that as well, couldn't have made it through all this without them.
Call your wife and OM right now. Leave him a message, and then leave her one saying (name a child) woke up from a nightmare wanting to talk to his mommy, but guess she was too busy to answer. If she does answer, tell her to put OM on the phone, you've got something you want to tell him. When she stumbles, just tell her to quit lying and hang up.
Maybe your wife is in her hotel room reading her bible and playing solitaire?
C'mon, lets get real here. If you have any doubts about what she is doing, how about driving there?
I doubt WW is in a hotel room. OP stated that OM convinced his boss to let him get an apartment in their city; that is more likely where WW is.
A quick check of the credit card statements could see if she's even going through the motions of getting a hotel room.
Maybe your wife is in her hotel room reading her bible and playing solitaire?
C'mon, lets get real here. If you have any doubts about what she is doing, how about driving there?
I doubt WW is in a hotel room. OP stated that OM convinced his boss to let him get an apartment in their city; that is more likely where WW is.
A quick check of the credit card statements could see if she's even going through the motions of getting a hotel room.
Yeah, kind of doubt his wife is smart enough to even think of that.
Did you call the OMW yet?
Couldn't get in touch with OMW. I think I found his parents via google. Will call in the morning.
Good! And I would also keep trying to get the OMW until you get through. How have you tried to reach her?
Before I get started on the Sunday update, still no workplace exposure. Please read events of the day to see if you would consider this A still in need of workplace exposure:
Started the morning off at 6:00am with an early drive to WW hotel to see if OM was there too. His car was not there, searched the surrounding area as well.
Talked to OMW this morning and this set off a flurry of activity. OMW has stated that OM is living with friends and has asked to come back home. OMW said that he is no longer looking for an apartment in my city. OMW was also told that WW told OM a week ago that she is working on getting back with me, which isn't true. (Later on I asked WW about this and WW replied that it was to get OM to go away.) I suggested to OMW to have OM compose a NC letter to WW. OM has agreed to do this. Also, OMW said OM has withdrawn from his parents and siblings due to guilt.
OMW then called WW and they had a 15 minute conversation where OMW told WW that OM was at various stages of A with other women and WW wasn't the only one. OMW told WW that they had a good marriage with the exception of his problems with excess, not just women but toys, vacations, etc. OMW then asked WW to explain what OM told WW about why his marriage was so bad. WW didn't even know! Lots of other things that painted the OM in a very bad light.
WW called me and we got into an argument about the contact with OMW. I told WW that I can talk to whomever I like. I said that I can't forgive her right now, but with hard work I would be able to eventually. Also starting going into the kids and that she is going to be the one that has to live with breaking up our marriage, etc. I did make a few LB comments unfortunately, nothing too bad but looking back I think they were LBs none-the-less.
I sent OM a text that I needed his address in the event I need to subpoena him. He is not happy with this and is scared to death his company will find out if he is subpoenaed.
WW came home for the neighborhood Easter egg hunt. Lots of small talk and the request again of no contact with the OMW. After the EEH, we all went to the park. WW started trying to pin down a schedule of when she could be home and me away again. I reiterated that I'm not going to be leaving the house. WW then asked how much we could afford for her to get an apartment. I told WW that if she got an apartment, she wouldn't be welcome back at the house. WW said that we should just go ahead and put the house on the market. We split up to find the kids so she could say goodbye for the day. I picked the 4 yr old up and he started hugging me as we went to find WW and the 6 yr old. As she went to say goodbye to the 4 yr old, he wouldn't let go of me and WW was visibly shaken. (I couldn't have asked for a better response from the 4 yr old!) As we were walking to our separate cars, I told WW that I don't like the direction this is heading and how this would turn out. WW said "I guess I could live in the basement, but it would just be for the kids, not for you." I told WW that it is a good starting point but it eventually has to be for me. (In hind sight, I think I should have told her that she needs to commit to at least trying to fix things.) Anyway she was heading out of town for an early meeting tomorrow, which is four hours in the opposite direction of OMs hometown, so 10 hours of distance total. I don't think they are seeing each other tonight.
She called to say goodnight to the kids and our only comments were "Talk to you in the morning". So I do still have some time to compile what I need from her if she really means that she wants to stay in the basement. Or do I just let her back in the basement and continue to meet ENs and then make it known what I need from her when she wants to come back upstairs? I really think having WW in the house at the same time would be a big step.
Or, she could flip/flop again and tell me that she is going to go it alone. I think her call with OMW may have really hit home, even though she thinks OMW is psycho and a liar.
What do I do next when WW calls to talk to the kids in the AM? Should I attempt to talk to her about anything regarding our situation? just make some small EN deposits? or just have her talk to the kids and that's it?
She is still in an affair with the OM, that is what is going on here. She is off to see him again tonight. She was with him last night too. Even a half wit wayward knows enough to hide a car.
I most certainly would expose to the workplace tomorrow. And keep in touch with the OMW.
WW came home for the neighborhood Easter egg hunt. Lots of small talk and the request again of no contact with the OMW.
And what was your response? Hopefully you did not agree to not talk to the OMW? You should be talking to her every day until this affair is killed.
As far as her sleeping in the basement, all that means is that she is considering moving her affair headquarters to the basement. SEe, here is how it will work: she moves into the basement, pronounces herself "separated" and commences to carrying on like an alley cat in heat. I would let her know you won't allow anything less than a full committment to your marriage, that you will not stay in a loveless marriage.
I would contact an attorney and see what your rights are. Your wife is extremely brazen and FLAGRANT and I am concerned for your safety.
In the meantime, tell your wife that if she doesn't end her affair and come home that this will lead to divorce. AND IT WON'T BE PRETTY. Tell her you will be filing on grounds of adultery and will have her OM subpoenaed to testify under oath.
Also, set your 6 yr old down and tell him the truth about his mothers affair. Tell him that his mother is having an affair with another man and that this is breaking up your family. Tell him you are doing everything in your power to prevent this. Your child should be encouraged to ask his mother to explain her destructive actions.
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
I sent OM a text that I needed his address in the event I need to subpoena him. He is not happy with this and is scared to death his company will find out if he is subpoenaed.
You have a GREAT opportunity to kill this affair if you will keep up the pressure on him. He does not want the trouble of a scorned husband. If you will expose him at work and have an attorney contact him you will RUN HIM OFF.
If you run him off he will dump your wife and you will have a chance to save your marriage. All he wants is a cheap piece of fun on the side, he does not want this kind of trouble.
He has already told you he is scared he will be exposed at work. I bet he has done this kind of thing before. Don't pass up this opportunity. And if you can find his parents, expose to them too.
Raise holy hell with this OM, weolm, and you have a chance to save this!
OMW was also told that WW told OM a week ago that she is working on getting back with me, which isn't true. (Later on I asked WW about this and WW replied that it was to get OM to go away.)
The OM told his wife this in order to divert attention from your wife as his affair partner. If your wife's affair was really over, she would be home. They are still very much in the affair but are doing their best to detract attention from that fact.
Thank heavens Mel is helping you, weolm. I am concerned about the level of details that you are providing however. The only thing we need to know is that the affair is still on.
Get ready to kill this A with a strategic and complete exposure. A little here and there doesn't work...it's like using a squirt gun on a raging fire.
Please re-read Mel's posts and instead of telling us what WW is saying or doing, lay out your exposure plan so that we can help you tweak it if necessary so that you can finally kill this A.
What do I do next when WW calls to talk to the kids in the AM?
Don't answer the phone. If she wants to talk to your children, she should do it in person. It's asinine for you to be the telephone operator.
Stop enabling her, it's not fair to your kids to have an "absentee" mom that just drops by when she feels like it. They need you to stand up for them, as they'll take what they're seeing now and apply it to their own relationships in the future.
Weolm
Are you staying in your house full time now?