How do I get her out of the fog?

Well, pardner, if you ask the question you better buckle up for the answer.

Most of this is contained in Mel's and Mb's postings, but I thought I'd give another voice to it.

No employer exposure due to concerns of termination, which would result in loss of insurance for the kids.

Too bad. Do you want a marriage, or cheap health insurance? (Health insurance builders is a different website.) She and POSOM are going to have to part business relations eventually anyway, so you might as well use the need to expose as a tool to kill the affair. Ask for the "Brit's Brat" letter for modelling what has to be said.

WW requested �space� and MC agreed that it would be a good idea.

Have no more to do with this stupid SOB. Terminally moronic conflict avoiders are no help in fighting active affairs.

She tells me about how much she is in love with OM,

Dude, hire a blood-hound - your testicles are missing! You sat there and accepted that from her mouth, without telling her to shut up? What would she have to tell you before she was out of line - ***edit***

I came home Wednesday night and WW was furious because it was supposed to be my night away....WW also demanded that I stop talking to her sister.

(Sigh of relief) Okay, we found the missing testicles - WW is using them, and what a set they are proving to be!

She wants to get an apartment.....
....***edit***

So given what we have to work with, the answer to your question is "KILL THE AFFAIR", and the best way to do that is to "RUIN HER (CHEATING) LIFE"!

1- You EXPOSE to everyone - her business, HIS business, both families, her olcd sorority sisters, her clergy, her "facebook" community - EVERYBODY THAT KNOWS HER NAME.

2 - You cut off every form of support she gets from you - financial accounts, car payment (What the hell arrangement do you have about commuting?)

3 - You explore your state's laws regarding infidelity and its effect on divorce settlements.

4 - You arm yourself with a small mini-audio-recorder, and are never without it in the presence of WW. This will help protect you from the bogus-domestic-violence complaint that has become the fogged-up WW's weapon of choice.

5 - And stop acting like a doormat!

Great advice everyone, thanks for your input. A few questions and comments.

1. I thought one of the things I should do is to provide a loving environment and avoid conflict. When she fog babbles, how do I tell WW she is full of crap and provide that type of environment at the same time?
2. When I go home, if she also stays, do I kick her out? If she goes, which is my expectation, I've been told that changing the locks is considered abandonment.
3. WW has a right to the see the kids. Do I just demand to go anywhere they go and not let them out of my sight?
4. At this time, the family cannot afford to live without WW's income. If we could sell the house tomorrow, sure, but in this housing market WW's income is required to help pay the mortgage, bills and put food on the table. I really don't want to be an enabler of the affair, but if she gets canned, we wouldn't have a place to live. This will be changing due to some additional income I will be receiving, but probably not until summer which isn't soon enough.

Just to confirm others - if you think you can get her out by pleasing her and granting every wish, you are seriously wrong.

I was there - I let my wife have her apartment to "think". It accomplished NOTHING and did not save me from FR that came months later. It was such a stupid idea and I'm still angry to myself that I was so weak and let it happen (and that money spent is lost also, of course).

I sense you are actually on the right track when you objected your MC-s ideas about "needing space" just do not let them speak you out of things which you do know are right things to do! Wait, you should drop that MC altogether and stop listen the "solutions" your WW and MC are producing.

And please - speak about the situation to OMW directly.

Where did you get this? Have you read about carrot and STICK in plan A?

You have to create conflict about the affair as much as you can - this does not mean that you are not the loving husband. But you can create the conflict without namecalling and lovebusting.


No you do not kick her out. Why? If she goes then you cannot stop her but you stay. I do not know about the abandonment, I hope some people with legal background will comment on that.


Please elaborate that. Do you suspect that your kids are introduced to OM sometimes? If they are then you must object that loudly.


Then you have to create a plan. It's less than 2 months until summer (if you live on northern hemisphere of course). Ask help from your parents and friends. Because if OM and WW continue to work together then divorce will be very likely and you have to sell the house anyway.

I just realised that I had the same situation. It should considered the same as working together. My wife left that job, it was the only way.

Yes, I've read it but forgotten. Thanks for sharing that again.


No, I don't think kids have ever been exposed to OM. Let's say WW wants to take kids to park or out to eat. Should I let them go alone? I don't have any suspicions of fleeing or foulplay. She is a good Mom, with one big exception.

I'm not a divorce attorney so my advice on the subject is worth what you paid for it...

however, I am an attorney (taxation is my specialty though I've been reading divorce law and cases and advising people here for 6 years)

it is my belief and opinion that most likely in whatever state you are in that until a court orders otherwise you both have 100% custody of your children. You can't stop her and she can't stop you. If either of you attempt to abscond, abduct or prevent the other from seeing their children it can and likely will be used against you as evidence of attempted parental alienation. Now of course you can attempt to defend yourself from such allegations by having really good documented reasons for keeping her from her kids (such as evidence she's exposing them to OM and you suspect/have really good knowledge that she's about to do it again) but other than that...you can't stop her for seeing her kids. In fact...her absconding with them away from the marital familial home has been used by several BH's here to assist them with winning primary custody of their children.

You want to appear the level headed reasonable one. You won't leave your home and the kids SHOULDN'T leave either. If she insists of taking them...you CAN argue and attempt to persuade her otherwise but you can't physically stop her just as she can't physically stop you from picking your kids up from school the next day. All the while you attempt to document how reasonable and calm you are being trying to resolve any dispute about the children while documenting her as being irrational and just downright harmful to the children.

Until you bust up the affair...busting up the affair remains operational priority number one. Exposure at work is just necessary to save your family. It's a tough call and I understand your hesitancy but until the affair is OVER and KILLED and the consequences to your wife and, most particularly, the OM outweigh the benefits...your marriage is toast. The sooner you up the ante and expose the more impact it MAY have. Conversely...the longer you wait...the less effective it will become. Time is of the essence. Your wife is counting on you to save her. Your kids need you to step and save their mom. She doesn't know it but she's already got her soulmate and it's YOU. You vowed to protect her...in good times and bad...in sickness and health. Well she's soulsick right now and the times are tough...but you need to fight for her. You both sound educated and completely capable of overcoming any temporary economic hardship exposure MAY (you never know) produce. You won't "overcome" anything until the affair is killed.

Remember...be sure to focus just as much energy exposing OM as it is my theory that getting OM's to end things is often a quicker solution than the ever slow process of deprogramming and extracting a wayward wife from a "love" affair. OM is soon to be single and have a world full of women to pursue...make yours too much trouble for him and he'll just dump her and move on.

Mr. Wondering

Morning update:

Working on getting some financial support so I can expose to the workplace, however, it may take a little time.

We had swim lessons for the four year old. Talked about summer camp and other stuff, which was good. Then she asked if I looked into apartments for her or if she should do it herself. I told her that I would prefer she stay at home but I couldn't force her to. I was done staying in hotels and that I wouldn't stay at apartment. WW said that she owned 50% of the house and that she didn't want me there when she was there. I told WW that owning 50% doesn't mean I can only stay there 50% of the time and that I would not interfere with her while she is at home. WW said that she was going to talk to an attorney and have a judge decide. I told her that I'm sure a judge would like to hear the story of how she has broken up our marriage and had extramarital relations and how they are continuing to this day. She countered that she has only texted him one time and that all other communication was via email strictly for work (first time I've heard of the emails!) and the judge would understand that she was unhappy before the A. I told her that it hurt me to hear that and to stop rewriting history. Also that WW can go ahead and do what she needs to do, but that is not how I want things to turn out and she should expect that the OM will be subpoenaed if it gets that far. Should I let OM know that WW threatened going to court and that if we do, he will be subpoenaed?

We left the lessons and she coaxed the kids into riding in her car. After we got home, she left at Noon because it is "her night away" and that she would be back for the neighborhood Easter Egg Hunt tomorrow. Since leaving, she has called to talk to the kids and I could hear the emotion in her voice. I didn't ask her what was wrong, should I have?

Also, forgot to mention in all of this that about two weeks ago, OM told WW that she was just a number and that she didn't mean anything to him. I know this because when he told her, she flipped out and said she never wanted to see either one of us ever again. Since that time, OM must have smoothed things over by telling WW that he had to say that to get OMW off his back or something similar.

Click on the carrot/stick link in my sig line. ... read the whole thread.

Loving environment AND consequences of her behavior. BOTH.
You want there to be conflict within her.
You avoid FIGHTS with her by changing the subject or walking away or fog talk response.
You do not "tell" WW she is full-o-crap right now.
Why waste effort on things that do not work?

FANTASTIC !

When an opportunity presents itself, you say to WW:

"You are just a number to me. You are number one and you mean everything to me."

Then .... smile, and change the subject. "I really could use a coffee now. I'm going out. Can I bring you anything?"

It does not matter that OM tried to "correct this" ... it will be burned into WW's brain forever. Wayward wives are masters at "keeping score".

Counter-balance his comment. Be sly.

This is SO IMPORTANT please, pay attention!

Ask the kids.
"Did you ever meet any man friend of Mommie? His name is "OMTheDork".

Do you have a GPS on WW's car?

From carrot/stick thread.

I will ask the kids. What should I do if they say "Yes"? I would think that I should tell the kids that he is a bad man and also get a restraining order filed for OM. Anything else?

No GPS yet. Will be getting one soon.

So, there is no plan here? Did you read any of our posts? By the time you wait around to expose in the workplace your marriage will be over anyway. You won't have the benefit of the job when you are divorced. This affair has gone so far because you are allowing it to become more and more entrenched every day. The more entrenched it becomes, the harder it is to kill. Your wife rightfully interprets your COMPLACENCE as a lack of caring. You won't ever save your marriage with that approach.

Right now you and your kids are at the mercy of a marriage wrecking wayward. She is driving the ship. And your marriage and your child's family is going to end up crashed on the rocks if you don't get off your [censored] and get to work, Sir.

HOPE is not a plan. Your plan leads to DIVORCE.

Now, are you ready to get to work or you are you going to continue with your own failed plan? You do realize your own plan is not working, don't you?

4

She is going off to meet her lover and what do you do? A BIG FAT NOTHING. Your complacency reflects a lack of caring.

Tell the kids that man is Mommy's boyfriend. Tell the kids that a married mommy is not supposed to have a boyfriend. Tell them it is wrong for mommy to have a boyfriend.




Today.

weo, if you can be bothered to get off your dead [censored] and fight for your marriage, here is the plan I would execute. I know it is a little more work than your current "HOPE" plan, but it might be much more effective. No plan is a plan to FAIL and your plan is failing.

Sit down and execute a mass exposure today while the lovers are shagging each other at your wife's hotel room [that is paid for by your family money].

1. call the OM's wife and tell her your wife is off with her husband. Ask her for family information, such as the OM's parents and sibs phone #s so you can call them

2. expose the OM to his facebook friends and family. Find his facebook page and copy and paste all of his friends into a WORD doc. Prioritize the targets in order of importance, ie: family, married friends. Send them our sample letter fashioned to suit your situation [will post below]

SEND THEM PRIVATE MESSAGES SPACED OUT ONE MINUTE APART SO FB DOES NOT SHUT YOU DOWN FOR FLOODING

3. do the same to your WW's facebook page - change the picture on your FB page to one of both you and her

4. call your WW's entire family and tell them she is with the OM in a hotel room. Ask them to CALL HER AND USE THEIR INFLUENCE TO PERSUADE HER TO END HER AFFAIR

5. Find the hotel they are shagging at and make a personal appearance. Take a good male friend and show up there. Go stake out her car and be waiting when she and the OM arrive there. With CAMERA in hand

6. On Monday morning send off a CERTIFIED letter to the director of Human Resources, a key VP and both your wife and the OM's supervisors at their various companies and inform them of the affair. Be sure and cc all of those people on the letter.

While there are no guarantees, this is your BEST CHANCE at saving your marriage. Your current plan is to ENABLE the affair at the expense of your marriage and your children's family. If you want to save your marriage, you need to fight for it, otherwise you are headed towards disaster, Sir.

Facebook exposure suggestions



Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It is with great regret that I send this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years and have 3 heartbroken children. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.

Thank you, BW


Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________