Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

Dude, here's the thing:

You cannot "make" anyone do anything. You only control YOU.

Your best bet is focus on doing EVERYTHING you can to be desired by your W. Quit your complaining, meet ENs like a champ and avoid Lbers like the plague. Do this for a YEAR.

If being desired is as important to you as you say, then you will quit your whining and just DO THIS. What have you got to lose?

He's made it pretty clear that he finds it a drudgery to spend time with her. Doesn't want to date her, have intimate conversations with her, do fun things with her, he doesn't even want regular old sex with her.

Cemar, this may have been asked: do you watch porn?

Also, the way you've described intimate details of other women's sex lives makes me think that perhaps you come off IRL like a creepy old perv, and nobody desires a creepy old perv. LEAST of all the person who was unfortunate enough to have married him.

cemar ~ you never answered my question from a while back:

WHY WON'T YOU SEND YOUR WIFE HERE?

It seems obvious to me that Cemar does not believe that he can fulfill her needs to the extent necessary to trigger her desire. That belief is self-fulfilling. Arguing to him that you think he can is, in my view, unlikely to sway him.

Cemar's argument is that no behavior on his part will be enough to change her feelings. You are asking him to test that hypothesis empirically. You are all exasperated by his refusal. To me, it is quite understandable.

Psychologically, some of us find it far more tolerable to complain endlessly than to take action and prove once and for all that we truly do not measure up. Do any of us really want to prove beyond a doubt that we are not, in fact, enough for our spouse? Many here are posting the proposition that trying and failing is merely a data point in life. Similar to my often used analogy that trying broccoli and disliking the taste is not a failure, it is a successful experiment. The underlying idea in relationship advice is that if your partner does not appreciate your best effort, that is their fault, and you are well rid of them. Some of us cannot shake the feeling that if we try our best and fail, we have proven our own inadequacy. Which is a far more bitter pill to swallow than to play the martyr and blame our problems on our ungrateful spouse.

Actually, I don't think I've said it will work. I've suggested that he try and if it doesn't net positive change in six months, then decide if he's going to stay or not.

But I do get the whole if I don't try, I can't fail.

However, you can still be miserable.

I get the whole not try. There is no way I'd ever again try to win back an unfaithful wife. So I get that. But I'd not stay around either. So I don't understand what is so appealing about a status quo that is so miserable. That doesn't mean it doesn't have it's benefits. I simply don't get it.

If the current situation is working for him and his wife, then who am I to judge. But given what he's written, I fail to see how it's working for him, let alone her.

EE, I interpret Cemar's situation as follows:

1. He isn't leaving. To him, leaving is breaking his vows and those are absolute. To him, leaving is the worst possible outcome. it is a betrayal of his faith.

2. He could try to improve his own behavior. In the hope his wife reciprocates. But he fears there is precious little chance she will do so.

Many people have posted: so what? What has he lost by trying?

My answer: trying and failing puts enormous pressure on point #1. If he does his best to eliminate LBs and meet her ENs, and she still refuses to meet his needs, how can he continue to stay with her? He will feel like he is the world's biggest sap.

I propose that Cemar's biggest fear is not that he will fail to trigger a response from her. In his mind, that is a given. I think Cemar's biggest fear is that he will fail the true test. That if he implements MB, and his wife does not respond, that he will lose his will to remain married. I think he avoids cleaning up his side of the street so that the marriage is more balanced, and thus he can more easily justify staying with her.

Remember years ago, back when I was still trying to improve things with Mrs. Hold, what did I say about making the effort to succeed at work? I don't really fear failure. I already know what that feels like. I fear success. Because if I start earning more money, I won't be able to justify staying married to Mrs. Hold. And that was (and is) my #1 priority in life. Far above happiness. To live with my kids while they live at home. I could not afford to make any real effort to improve my performance at work. Because that would place too much pressure on our marriage. Much easier to continue to slog along, and use my lack of work success to "equalize" what each of us gets out of the marriage.

Not helpful if the goal is happiness. Very effective if the goal is to stay married, no matter how unhappily.

I need a break...I think I am starting to understand HOLD

LOL. Hilarious. I know what you mean.

Raise your hand if you are living it.

*edit*

Discussion towards the end of the video begins applying the concept to social situations.

The same concept applies to marriage. This is what happens over time to one spouse who is continuously rejected, or has their needs refused.

It is not an indication of a hopeless situation. What it is, is a person conditioned to surrender to defeat, failure, unhappiness - they no longer believe they are in control of their own situation, life, happiness.

BULL. PUCKEY.


Get off yer duff, and quit yer b(*&*in.

My biggest fear for you, cemar, is that I know the desperation you feel...the obsession with someone just WANTING you. That nothing else will do.

5 years ago I got that. Someone wanted me, lusted after me, seduced me (though I was a sadly willing participant). I would be lying if I said there was no momentary flattery or pleasure at the time. But you know what? In the end it was empty. And crushing....because though being lusted after sounds nice, when you realize fully that all you are is just some.....thing with the right body parts, it is crushing. And I hated myself. Part of me STILL, 5 years later, feels tainted and ugly and dirty.

You do not want that cemar. A brief moment of the rush of being lusted after.....followed by never ever ever being the same again....in your own eyes or in anyone else's.

Please find a way to be thankful and content....and guard yourself.

I have wanted to say that for a long time, but I don't really like remembering how that terrible junk felt.

MarriedForever:

I don't send her here becauseI reallhy doubt that she would come. She like many LD people, want to be accepted as they are. In order to save our marriage, it will require that she change, and that is the last thing she wants to hear. Itis a common trait of LD women, they want to be accepted as they are, which of course will not help there marriage. They want US to change, which of course, we can not.

holdingontoit:

Why would you imply that the man has anything to do with the woman's sex drive? From what the LD woman are saying, their husbands did a lot of work to improve the marriage for the wife, and the result was the women LOVE their husbands more, but they admit that their sex drives really did not improve. SO how is this the MAN's fault? Increasing the LOVE in the marriage is a SECONDARY goal, it is not the PRIMARY goal.

Vibrissa:

But you admit that your sex drive has not dramatically improved. Basically, what I am seeing is that the love has increased, but the desire is still lacking.

Ok, then.

One poster here is posting about the effect that Maca Root supplementation has had in improving his wife's libido.

I went through some academic journals, and the evidence points to it actually having some effect on libido.

Also, Dr. Harley writes about low-level testosterone prescriptions for women to increase libido.

There are TWO solutions for your singular obsession... awaiting the next excuse to do nothing but continue to whine...

CWMI:

I expect my wife to be as good as the BEST wives that I see.

What bothers me most is your complete insistence that your wife is the one that is "the problem", and your repeated claim HD is somehow the gold standard of "normal" for sexuality.

SAYS WHO???

Sexual desire is a spectrum, Cemar. It goes from Couldn't-care-less to Can't-get-enough. There is no default setting. Repeat: THERE IS NO DEFAULT SETTING. The whole human race does not come with pre-installed switches set to HD. Yours may be. Other people's may not be.

It is extremely disrespectful to describe your wife as somehow faulty because her sexual desire is not at the same level as yours. You know, your wife could give her point of view like this: "Cemar seriously has a problem - he's just not normal. He wants lots of sex, and I tell you, no NORMAL person is like that. He just wants to be accepted the way he is, but he needs to be fixed. LD people can't change, so it's up to him to get himself fixed so our marriage is saveable."

And stating LD people are capable of changing their desire level, and HD people aren't - that is a cop out designed to get you free pass.

But life's not like that. Free passes aren't issued often, and people have to take some responsibility for their situation, and be proactive about resolving it if they want the end result to be different to the status quo.

I'm not religious, but even I know that while all good things come to those who wait, God helps those who help themselves.

Edit: typo

Why would she be, when her husband is a whiny Nancy-boy who consoles himself by sitting in the corner whining about his situation, and does nothing to fix it?

You have deflected every single piece of advice leveled your direction.

You sir, are a pansy and a coward.

You don't want to change your situation? Then shut your piehole and DO SOMETHING. ANYTHING.

This sissy drama queen act HAS TO END.

Again, I quit.

You have not understood one word I have said. You completely do not understand my sexuality, and from what I can tell the sexuality of most women.

I do desire my husband. Quite frequently.

A couple times a week I throw my husband on our bed, rip our clothes of and have a wonderful time. I love every second of it. Sometimes I orgasm. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes it takes me a little while to get physically ready.

Sometimes he gets oral sex in the shower just for the heck of it.

Sometimes he wakes up in the middle of the night to sex.

I desire to do EVERY one of those things. I see my husband and I run my hands up and down his body. I allow him to do the same to me. I kiss him passionately several times a day.

My body doesn't crave sex more than a couple times a week or so, and could possibly run a whole month with one sexual encounter if I were to act solely out of my rushing hormones. But I don't. Hormones =/= desire.

My husband is dang sexy, and a superb husband. I do desire my husband. A lot.

But again, you won't 'get it'.