Left the babble.

The overlap is the "instinct to run." It goes with the "trapped" crap - which a lot of WW's utter... "I just feel so trapped..."

It's babble, bud. It's only "honest" if she gives into it. And if she does, she will run from her problems for the rest of her life.

"Trapped and controlled" I think she actually said.

Yeah, that's her feeling. But its babble. She has sooo much power and control. Just cant admit it, see it, accept her responsibility.

I think "trapped and controlled" deflects the responsibility from herself to me. What may be more accurate is "unmotivated, tired, overwhelmed, inadequate, depressed"

SAHM may feel inadequate overwhelmed. But blames H for feeling trapped and controlled.

She is capable and able but often retreats to jammy day and sad day.

So its not all babble. But there is loads of it.

She admits to not trying hard. To being intentionally blind and resisting. To blaming me. She admits to fog and defensiveness. She acknowledges tons of hard work and change. All three therapists have said we are trying harder than most couples that never even try. All three therapists are impressed we have relationship capabilities now most couples never try to learn.

She is depressed. While I have a truckload of bad H examples from our past..... there are some doozies.... now her depression isn't all about bad roomate H behaviors or trapped or controlled or whatever the next explanation is. Its about her feelings about herself. She is embracing this ever so slowly. She can get rid of H but the feelings will remain. Believe me when I tell you she is actually exploring now reasons beyond blaming H for her depression.

--�I don�t know why it won�t come to me (love). I sit back and wonder why it�s not coming. Is it me resisting?�

--�My instinct when this gets so hard is to just run! I know I have run away from other things when they are hard."

--�Sending him an email was selfish. I did not think of you. I did not think about how it hurts my husband. It�s selfish and its wrong and I do want to stop.�

--�I know you can never have the �transference� and measure up to a fantasy. It�s not fair. You can�t become him because he is a perfect fantasy. Just a fantasy. Not reality. No history. No failures, fights, letdowns."

Charming, indelible performance art, my friend.

Tell us, did she manage to generate a tear - a single, solitary tear - while mouthing this pap? That would have elevated this to epic proportions.

Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice, shame on me! Fool me three times...........what should follow that?

But just for curiosity's sake: Was there any mention of her cold-hearted, calculated lead-in to when she accidentally "did not think of you"? You know, when she was discussing, telling you of her plan, to yield to - what was it? - her urges? How was that "fluffed" away?

Buh.

Can't pull the SAHM card, either. FWW works a full-time job and jabbered the same babble, bud.

Don't let her rope you in with that bovine excrement.

Ditto.

I heard the exact same crap and we've all read it a hundred times on other threads.

She's giving it to you now because, well, she emailed OM and you're being compared...again.

So, what's next?

Stretch - FWIW - our MC is impressed with our general civility and communication skills. My WW feels like she lost her identity and she also feels trapped. Don't buy that line - if you're like most of us, you would be supportive of any reasonable efforts she would make to improve her situation. That could be as simple as taking a class at the local community college, getting a certification of some kind, taking up a new hobby, getting involved with a volunteer group, etc.

//start rant// Maybe it's just me, but the f'in passiveness of the WS really ticks me off! It's just so easy to blame things on someone or something else, rather than taking an active step or steps to change things for the better! "Boohoo, feel sorry for ME. I had it so hard and I was so miserable that I HAD to find happiness elsewhere." That's the easy, short term solution, ain't it? In the meantime, children, families and marriages are sacrificed or destroyed to feed their perceived 'happiness'. Go figure! //end rant//

You know why that is, Andy?

Imagine that you became a serial killer. After that first kill, if you are going to continue you will have to build a rationalize a reason why it's "OK" to murder people.

Ever wonder why prostitutes get targeted so much? Oh, well, they are justifiable. Filth peddlers, people "no one would miss."

A wayward is no different. They have to blame their victim because what they are doing is fundamntally wrong, they are betraying their own core beliefs, and have to shift reality to maintain their sense of "self."

So, when a wayward says "I lost myself," they are telling the truth.

What was lost;

Self worth, self respect, self awareness.

HHH - very insightful. It's the passiveness that becomes a victim mentality, that irkes me. I mean, I honestly can't wait to see how my WW will spin this whole thing in the future. As parents we'll face some tough questions in 10-15 years - right now, I'm comfortable answering them. I'm doing everything I can to save my M and that's what I'd tell anyone who'd listen, the rest is out of my control.

Really good day for BH club today at Stretch's second MC of the week. Gotta put kiddos to bed and do my workout. Want to come back later and tell you.

I got tired of the bullsh*t babble today and called it out. Then stood up for myself, twice.

Good rant. Looking for someone, somewhere else to blame. Doormat BH's let that happen

Pfff... the wives are just the beginning, and then we let it bleed out everywhere, and become a doormat to more people.

My mom's wife is an alcoholic jerkwad - spent the past 2 days going around with the dillweed because he insists on being an asinine bully.

Fun thing about bullies? They shrink when you call them on their bluff.

So.... MC today. We talked about why she emailed OM on Monday night.

I wanted to address that line (above posts) :

"Sending him an email was selfish. I did not think of you. I did not think about how it hurts my husband. It�s selfish and its wrong and I do want to stop"
We got into a discussion of how what she did that hurt me was "unintentional". "I did not think of you when I did it. Hurting you was unintentional."

So then I heard this interesting line of reasoning: "I find it fascinating that all those years where you were hurting me, you were just clueless, it was unintentional.. You didn't know your way of being hurt me. But your bad husband behaviors were unintentional. So now, I hurt you unintentionally and you know what it feels like."

I got angry and said to her and the MC, "That is crazy, foggy, babble. What bullsh*t. Is that an insanity defense? Split personality? I cried in agony and couldn't eat or sleep for days when you told me weeks ago that you would not promise to email him again. You knew how much it would hurt and did not think about my feelings when you took your action. I don't think that is 'unintentional' that is a premediatated action that you knew full well was wrong, knew it would hurt me and did it anyway."

She admits she does it for a thrill.

Arg!

So next, at the end of the session the MC asks, "Any loose ends." She says, "I think we've covered this topic."

"No," I said, "I have a request. I would like to ask her to never email him again and delete all email addresses and contact records from computer, phone etc. That's what I want for our marriage."

MC: "Does she have to answer right now." I waffled. She said, "We have an appointment on Monday." I said, "I will make that request on Monday."

Later, on the way home she asks, "Do you try to control me? For example, that request in his office, that felt like you trying to control me."

Me: "I will not accept that definition. That is NOT controlling you. You get to choose. I just made a request. That's what I want for my marriage. I want to not be afraid that my wife will go to another man for her needs. I am entitled to that request in my marriage. Its reasonable. Its normal with society, morals and our vows. I made the request for my marriage. You get to choose. You have the control."

Her: "You're right. That's not controlling behavior. I take it back."

....AND???

How'd y'all end it? Surely not with that cliffhanger, you were on a roll

What? It was the three of y'all in the room, right? Yes, she should have had to answer right then, don't you think?

Too tired now to remember the rest of the day. I think that was just about the end of the conversation.

I went back to work. We had wonderful texts, communication, dinner with kids, ugly problem solving about my parents (I talked to my Dad for an hour about their problems tonight... this MB stuff btw makes you so much wiser in other aspects of life.)

Really tired now. Planning no marriage talk this weekend. Nice bottle of wine tomorrow night. Hiking with Boy Scouts Saturday. Church Sunday, dinner with my wonderful MIL.

Chillin'

I'll take Monday.

Feeling good about the weekend.
But I sense she is not. Really sorting out her life.
Time to shine and kick in Plan A. I am a wonderful husband and father. Make her super happy this weekend.

Having a good weekend. She is super nice and loving. But she is "sorting stuff out"according to txt to girlfriends. And she is meeting each gf for a talk.
On Monday I expect the best, not the worst. Its not in my control. Just having a great, confident, lovely weekend.

Glad to hear it, stretch. Hope tomorrow goes good, too.