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we are communicating alot more but there are still some things that she says that just doesnt make sense below are some examples.
Rouge, I hope you are being proactive in all of this. There are several things that concern me:
1. It makes no sense that she would suddenly move out if NC has been in place 6-7 months. I suspect they are still in contact, or have been very recently.

2. Interesting that she would suspect that you are not the father, so her first order of business is to pursue child support after she leaves with the kids. I would make paternity testing one of your conditions for recovery.

3. You say that OM is married. Have you informed his wife about his less-than-stellar activities with another married woman? This woman needs to know what her POSH is up to so she can protect herself. You also need to align yourself with her so that the two of you can confirm that NC stays in place.

Forget the fogbabble she's spewing about OM right now. She probably said "If you knew him, you'd like him" right? puke

I would also consider a polygraph. This story is not passing the smell test. I'm sorry, Rouge. I think there is a lot you don't know.


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we have NC agreement in place.

if i have any questions they get answered no ifs ands or butts.

and yes paternity tests will be done.

i was also trying to find where to print a copy of his needs her needs thing i found it before but i cant find it now any help would be appreciated thanks


male 43 years old
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Rouge, I haven't posted to you before but am following your sitch -

Originally Posted by Rouge1
she says the OM wasnt a bad man or anything almost like he was the victim which i dont get at the time the OM was married and he knew my wife was married to me (yes i know it takes 2 to tango wife has her share of blame in this) what kind of good man would knowingly cheat on his own wife with a woman he knew was married and possibly father 2 kids then not want anything to do with them this doesnt sound like a good man to me.


yeah - this??? She's very foggy. And that's an understatement. The OM is most certainly pond scum. She is trying to protect him.


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"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
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he isnt married anymore not sure if the affair to my wife was the cause of thier breakup or not but he is no longer married.


male 43 years old
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Originally Posted by Rouge1
he isnt married anymore not sure if the affair to my wife was the cause of thier breakup or not but he is no longer married.
Have you personally confirmed this, or is that what your WW told you?


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What so you call honesty, honesty is telling the children she was committing adultery , honesty is if the children are not yours while you may love them they must know their mother willingly and knowingly committed adultry and they are the result.

How honest is your wife with you? While there are times when a woman may not know who the father of the child is I think in your case your wife does, why would she be having unprotected sex with another man. The only reason I see she is back with you is her OM dumped her. All her plans fell apart, I may be wrong about the children and I hope I am but your wife has used you for many years. Her exit strategy fell apart. I support you in staying in you marriage, firstly your wife must know there is no trickle truth , ask her directly if she intentional was trying to have the OM's children and the truth why she returned to you. You cannot live life as the standby prize.

There is a lot of work your wife has to do to earn your total trust , affair proof your marriage and learn to practice daily radical honesty.

Please do not be a doormat who is ever so thankful his wife chose him over the OM , she is to choose you because she loves you and only you.

Take your time thinking through this, ask her any and all questions, she should answer willingly. As for recovery , read the articles on this site, read the books "his need her needs" and "surviving an affair" . Have some time for yourself for personal recovery , the hurt and pain has yet to hit you when it does your emotions are going to be all over the place.

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yes i have confirmed that OM is now divorced that was easy public records.

a little background might help clear some of the paternity questions up, we tried for 8 years to have kids with no luck we tried invitro, and a bunch of other stuff but nothing worked doctors said there is nothing wrong with either of us except that i have what the doctors called lazy swimmers.

so when she told me she was prgnant with our daughter of course i thought miracle this is finally going to happen then 13 months after my daughter is born wife is pregnant again.

in hindsight with the other stuff going on i should have realized but i trusted her even though i had doubts in my own mind.

so in a nutshell tried to have kids for 8 years with no results wife has affair and bam 2 kids im not a rocket scientist but im not stupid either the chances of the kids being biologicly mine are slim to none and i realize that.



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Rouge, does the OM know these children are his and is there any chance he will try to get visitation? If so, that would be a disaster to your marriage. I would consider contacting an attorney and setting something in place so he can't bother you and your wife.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Has she been honest with you, has she said catogoricly that the children are not yours, has she stated she went out of her way to have the OM's children.

The reason for pressing you is for any healing to start you must know the truth and decide if you can live with such a person for the rest of your life. If the children are the OM's it is a tough ask for you to simply forgive if she has actively planned all this.

If she is now committed to the marriage you need to know what she has told the OM and what their plans were. Her honestly today will determine how you deal with this.

I have a close friend who has a similar experience, there are significant hurdles to clear before you make any major decisions.

I suggest no matter what she tells you verify this with a polygraph.


Last edited by Xau; 04/30/11 09:08 AM.
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I found a pretty good article on this:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
There are many important issues to consider in deciding your future together. If your daughter were your only child, and if your wife were still in love with her ex-lover, who happened to be single and wanted to marry her, I would lean toward encouraging you to divorce. But since she is the mother of your two children, no longer loves her ex-lover, and wants to save her marriage, I would encourage you to remain married and raise all three children together.

There are many considerations that tug at a decision to marry or divorce, and as you discuss them with your wife you will probably find a clear answer that gains your mutual and enthusiastic agreement.

If you decide to remain married and create a mutually enjoyable future together, then the next decision you will need to make is how to treat Robin's former lover. Should he become a part of your family, with visitation rights as well as financial responsibility for raising his daughter? Or should he be out of your lives entirely?

As with the issue of divorce, this one should also be decided by enthusiastic agreement. But if you want my advice, I usually encourage a couple in your situation to keep the ex-lover away from your family. It may be difficult to engineer, but it is very important for Robin to try to avoid seeing or talking to him ever again. Granted, the affair may be over, but I am always concerned about the possibility of it becoming rekindled. If, for some reason, it is impossible to keep him away from his daughter, I suggest that you act as an intermediary, so that whenever he visits, he does not see or talk to Robin.

Another very difficult issue is whether or not to tell your daughter who her real father is. Again, I suggest that you reach an enthusiastic agreement before you make a decision. The Policy of Radical Honesty applies only to a husband and wife, and not necessarily to children. While I tend to value honesty in all situations, if you and Robin can enthusiastically agree to deceive your child about her real father, it's up to you.

But if you want my advice, I would encourage you to be honest with Robin's daughter very early in life, so that there are no surprises later. I think it's more important for her to know she can trust what you say, than that she thinks you are her real father. Eventually, she is likely to know the truth anyway, and if she was consistently told that she was your daughter, the truth might undermine her trust of you. Regardless of who her genetic father may be, you will be the father that cares for her most for the rest of her life, and she will know that about you as you raise her into adulthood.

Once you make these decisions, you have many more decisions to make, but they can all strengthen your relationship with Robin if they follow the Policy of Joint Agreement. While your situation is tragic, if you make wise decisions regarding your future, you will minimize the damage. And your new way to make decisions will greatly improve your lifestyle and marriage, improvement you have needed very badly.
What to Do When You (or Your Spouse) Becomes Pregnant with a Lover's Child


Originally Posted by Dr Harley
I am revising SAA and it should be in print sometime in 2011, and the problem you raise will be included in it. But it's particularly difficult to address because of our no-contact-with-the-ex-lover rule on the one hand, and the need of a child to have contact with their natural parents on the other. Our radio archives have more on this subject than anything I've written so far, because we've had several listeners call in with this problem, and I describe the approach I take.

As you probably already know by now, I tilt toward keeping the marriage healthy at the possible expense of the child not having adequate contact with the OM. I recommend that at the time of birth, the other man not be mentioned on the birth certificate unless he demands it. That makes your husband the legal parent of the child. If he does demand being on the birth certificate, I recommend that he pay child support until the child is 19. If the OM wants visitation, I recommend that it be done with transparency, so his own family knows what's going on. A mediator, paid by him, is to pick up and deliver the child so that you and your husband never have to have any contact with him.

In almost all cases that I've witnessed, the OM isn't willing to be named on the birth certificate, pay the child support, or make the situation known to his family. Under those conditions, I highly suggest that he not be able to visit his child until he or she is an adult. If an attempt is made, I suggest getting a restraining order. While that policy seems very rigid and uncaring toward the child, the alternatives are usually disastrous. Having an old lover around, the cause of your husband's greatest sadness, has such an devastating effect on the marriage that few survive.

Having heard from some of the couples who have followed this way of thinking, and others who have done the opposite, I am confident that it is the best approach to your situation.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

and a radio show on this subject here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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the OM was told that he was the possible father of both children he then asked my wife to leave me and move in with him that is when my wife called off the affair.

since she told the OM to leave her alone and not contact her he has 6-7 months later is when she exposed herself and moved out her reasoning was that she was afraid i would just leave her and wouldnt want to try and work things out.

she didnt just expose to me she exposed to her whole family what she had done and they werent to happy about it which is what is throwing me off a little in all the reading ive done on these forums i havent come across another person that not just exposed to thier BS but also to thier whole family, what she did was and still is devastating and i have not caught her in a single lie since she exposed, so any ideas on this situation would be helpfull also.

i do agree that she is still foggy from the affair i am hoping that as our marriage regains its strength that will fade with time.


male 43 years old
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I suspect she exposed it because the OM threatened to do so. Is that what happened? It is real important to know what the OM plans on doing. Does he plan on trying to see the children?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Have you spoken to the family to as to what has happened ? We are get information in drips from you, we may be able to move things a lot quicker if you tell us as much as you know, break it down into easy readable paragraphs.

Did the OM threaten to expose, what is her reason for coming clean? From your perspective is she being remorseful, what is she doing differently today?
As well as her answers to the questions I posed earlier.

What about your children, how are they reacting to all this, you may not have told them anything however I am sure they sense something is wrong.


Last edited by Xau; 04/30/11 11:02 AM.
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sorry it's coming out slowly i am still trying to process some of it and there are some things that i still want to ask my wife but havent been able too just thinking about it sends me to a dark inward place that i dont want to be in right now but i know i cant put it off too long either so i will get all the info i can and post it up.

she answers all my questions but isnt very forthcoming if i dont actually ask.

we try to only talk about this after the kids are asleep since we have been communicating more and there is mutuall affection again the kids actually seem to be pretty happy which wasnt the case about a month ago they were all on edge before.


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Originally Posted by Rouge1
2. yes we are back together and i dont regret taking my wife back and i am wooing her almost constantly i am getting some in return but i still feel as if i am doing most of the work in doing this like its up to me to instigate any kind of intimacy even things as simple as holding hands.

Rogue,

Sorry you are going through this. The advice everyone is giving you is solid. I only have a comment or two... I often thing affairs should be called "unfairs"...

Most of the time it seems that the burden initially lays on the betrayed spouse to do all the work. Be prepared for this. You were the stronger person for not having the affair. You will have to remain strong to maintain the marriage. This means you are going to have to do the wooing, fill her love bank... take the initiative in holding her hand, holding her on the couch, telling her you love her and want her. It is hard. You will have to meet her En's in ways you may not have thought possible. Hang in there brother, there are a lot of smart people here who have a lot of wisdom to offer. Remember, be firm but tender. And tell this guy's wife if he has one... She needs to know.

CV


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Rogue,

I also just thought of this... CVS and Walgreens sells a home paternity kit. You can send it off for I think 99$. Easy to use.

CV


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Good advice here Rouge1. Your in good hands

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ok its been a bit but ive still been reading up on the forums and doing alot of snooping trying to find out everything i can.

finally got the keylogger working and its been running for almost 2 weeks now and it has come up with nothing as far as secret e-mails extra facebook accounts or anything else that i can find.

nothing on the cell phone either no texts or calls i even went so far as to check and make sure her contacts are who they say they are.

i have searched everywhere in the house and vehicles for an extra cell phone and cant find one (just as a precaution).

things have picked up for us some in the bedroom and we are finding more time for the two of us she is considering stepping down from management to just a part time cashier so we can spend more time with each other to work on our marriage but we havent made a concrete decision on this.

i have been working on me also trying to be a better husband and father it's not always easy over the years ive found out ive gotten into what i call bad habits whichn i am working on correcting, i have also cut some of my hours at work to be home more im a suprevisor in charge of all the shifts well instead of handling all the problems myself ive started to delegate more of the stuff that would require me to work 70 hrs a week if not more.

there was one small incident at my wifes work the OM came in (she works in a public place) and tried to talk to her she told him to go to hell and never come back she then went to the office and stayed back there until he left she told me this up front that night when she got home from work i verified it with some of her coworkers, he hasnt been back to her workplace since.

i also think my wife is suffering from depression she is always exhausted and wants to sleep alot and i mean alot i realize this might be from the affair but it got worse after the OM showed up at her work so it's like she is starting back at square one again.

as far as my mental state i go from being happy to sad to downright angry about this whole situation i get depressed when i look at my kids wondering if they are mine or not wondering how we are going to work through all of this etc. etc.

we are going to do paternity tests on both kids we have allready bought the tets but have to wait until either income tax refund or we save enough because i want the results to be admissable in court in case OM ever decides to show up wanting contact with the kids or anything so that isnt cheap.


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any suggestions on what step to take next things seem to be going ok but you guys were right im on an emotional roller coaster right now.

i did get SAA from them library havent gotten very far into it yet but i will find the time to go through and read it.

for a while my wife wasnt very remorsefull but recently that has changed and i am a little lost on this i know its good that she does feel remorse for what she has done, i will give an examplke too hard to try and explain this.

we were in walmarts parking lot we had just got the kids in the van and the groceries loaded and we were talking nothing major just small talk when something i said must have triggered her and she just blurted out that she hopes our kids turn out better than her and make better decisions than her because she hasnt done a very good job of making good decisions for herself and her family, i was just kind of stunned and didnt know what to say part of me wanted to lash out at her and agree with her that she was right but i didnt want to LB either so i just clamped my mouth shut and didnt say anything i think it hurt her when i didnt respond but i honestly didnt know what to say that wouldnt have hurt her and set us back on the progress we have made.

i know im expecting some 2x4s so give them to me i just need some perspective right now and im not sure i trust mine at the moment


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Well I don't know if I would have done anything differently, btu that doesn't mean I would be right either.

With that kind of an emotional outburst from the blue, you would have a hard time consoling her about her bad decsisions, but I certainly understand that your heart would be confused as you want to help her, but yet teach her, and still are hurting all at the same time. I would have a tough time with that also.

Does she have any counsel? Will she read Dr Hs books? Will she look for GOOD help with Dr H or the center? I strongly suggest DR H over any other counselor because he outclasses them all in marriage issues, has heard it all, and can really help her in ANY direction she needs to go.

You have been hit hard and are in the middle of processing all this crap. Get her whatever help she will accept and I will let other 2x4 you if they feel a need to. I will have to read up on your thread to give you more advice, but the remorse is a good thing, the helplessness and self degradation is not gonna help anybody, and she needs a professional to help her out of the woods.

Of course she can change all that, its part of lifes lessons, but she has to do it, you can;t fix it for her.


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4 children
DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4
Me former BS
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Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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