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I think I push for instant gratification because I think or feel that 1+2=3 and if we start doing these things now gratification can be felt. We did that both for three days and we were gratified. Yesterday I kept up that effort so I thought it would turn out the same way. When it didn't I looked for a reason why and reacted incorrectly I suppose.


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But remember that it didn't take a day to get your marriage into the state that it is. It's going to take more than a day to get the marriage where you want it.

This all takes practice and changing habits that you've ingrained in yourself (and herself also). Most of us on here were in the same boat that you and your wife were and we're giving you the tools that have made us successful in our marriages.


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I know this. Internalizing this and remembering it in a moment of feelings is a hard thing to overcome at times.


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Quote:
A year from now I'd like to have love in my marriage, in fact well before a year. I hate starting over each time more than you know.

Then change your outlook.
Start changing YOU.
Let your wife work on herself.
Stop getting hung up on each LB she does to you -- send her a respectful LB form at the end of each week with the mindset that you are helping her take care of you (NOT with the mindset of pointing out her faults and demanding she change). Dwelling on the painful mistakes your wife has made will not get you there.
Remember that she wants to care for you.
Encourage your wife to do the same so that you can learn how to care for her.
Learn from each other.
Fill each others' Love Banks.
Enjoy the journey. (Steve Harley told me this one at the beginning of the year last year -- I didn't listen)

Please do not make the same mistakes Markos and I did. Stop fighting over what each other is supposed to do and start helping each other. You are not each others' enemy. Stop acting like it.


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Originally Posted By: Prisca
Quote:
A year from now I'd like to have love in my marriage, in fact well before a year. I hate starting over each time more than you know.

Then change your outlook.
Start changing YOU.
Let your wife work on herself.
Stop getting hung up on each LB she does to you -- send her a respectful LB form at the end of each week with the mindset that you are helping her take care of you (NOT with the mindset of pointing out her faults and demanding she change). Dwelling on the painful mistakes your wife has made will not get you there.
Remember that she wants to care for you.
Encourage your wife to do the same so that you can learn how to care for her.
Learn from each other.
Fill each others' Love Banks.
Enjoy the journey. (Steve Harley told me this one at the beginning of the year last year -- I didn't listen)

Please do not make the same mistakes Markos and I did. Stop fighting over what each other is supposed to do and start helping each other. You are not each others' enemy. Stop acting like it.


Yep I'm aware of all of this as is she, it is the discipline part that sneaks in there at times. I consciously try to make decisions and take an extra minute to think before I do things. I find myself biting my tongue quite a bit more than I used to and I'm sure she does the same. We recovered yesterday very quickly and had a nice night.


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So I know I need to work on me and that my wife needs to work on her. This concept is hard. I know I'm not a patient man which causes me to look at my wife's side of the fence more than I should. As it pertains to affection which is my number one EN, if I don't initiate or ask it just doesn't happen. We had three wonderful nights earlier this week where I felt like my wife, "got it". She was affectionate to me and showed her love to me through physical affection. That affection stopped Thursday, continued into Friday, and continued this morning. I left work early yesterday, stopped by the mall, got her a cute sweat suit, a gift card to her favorite specialty tea store, and an amazing piece of cheesecake. I walked through the door so excited to shower my wife with gifts because I love her. I made her her favorite buffalo mozzarella salad, filet mignon, etc. She was grateful, don't get me wrong, but my efforts to meet her EN's don't really ever lead me to believe that it has an impact like you say that it should or will. I don't believe the intention of me working on me means that I should just "take the scraps" as someone put it earlier in this thread. I have no intentions of being a doormat and giving into a marriage that I get very little back out of. Is that fair to say? My specific question is, how do I approach letting my wife know that she doesn't meet my EN for affection? You've said be more patient and just wait. But you also say that I need to make sure I am brutally honest and say how I'm feeling. I spoke up this morning about this subject, my wife didn't like it, and we are back at the starting point. My wife is the most important thing to me and she said she feels that, the opposite is not at all true. It doesn't feel good to my wife "gets to me when she gets to me." I just don't know when I'm supposed to shut up and when I'm supposed to speak up. If I shut up, like I have in the past, nothing changes. If I speak up, she doesn't like it and gets irritated at me. There doesn't appear to be any middle ground, but I could be wrong, I'm all ears.

I'm not hear to fight you all, just tell me how you see it, ask whatever questions you want and I'll answer them truthfully. I just want forward progress.


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But you have to remove the LBs before you will really see progress. You can meet every EN on the list and if you're LBing, it's not gonna help much.

Is receiving gifts on your wife's EN important list? If not, you could buy her a billion dollar diamond ring and it's not gonna matter a lot. My wife isn't concerned with gifts or monetary things. She does like the occassional thoughtful gift but it doesn't do much for her if I buy her things. However, doing the dishes, folding clothes, playing with the kids makes her beam. Her two top ENs are family commitment and domestic services so this is where I concentrate my efforts the most.

You can be brutally honest without lecturing or coming off as impatient. Your wife has identified two of her LBs are your impatience and lecturing. Stop those. Honey, I could really use more affection. Ive really missed your touch the last couple of days. Then give her a hug and go on. However if you say, you know, its been two days since youve shown me affection. Were supposed to be working this program, and youre not meeting my needs. Wellthat aint helping the situation.

Going back to me, my wife has a high need for DS. During soccer season, I can have some late nights getting home and am just busy. So I might have a day or two in a row that I dont help a lot with cooking and cleaning. If my wife were to start outlining that I havent done this and that for X amount of days, I wouldnt like that. However, if she were to say, I really need help with the house; its dirty. I dont have time to get to the dishes, can you help? Sure, absolutely. I do make every effort to make sure Im meeting her needs on a daily basis. When you drop the LBs and get the ENs met on a consistent basis over time, then when you miss a day or two here and there its not quite as big of a deal.


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I'm an afterthought to my wife. It feels horrible. Her words, her body language, all of it speaks, " look I'll get around to finding you important when I get to it, back off.". How can I want to keep giving to that person? I'll work on how I approach being brutally honest I for sure showed impatience.


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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
I'm an afterthought to my wife. It feels horrible. Her words, her body language, all of it speaks, " look I'll get around to finding you important when I get to it, back off.".


This would be called a DJ. Stop inferring things. However you can state how you feel. "Honey, I'm feeling lonely and unimportant. I'd appreciate it if we could have some alone time together after the kids are down."

Quote:
How can I want to keep giving to that person? I'll work on how I approach being brutally honest I for sure showed impatience.


Don't show impatience. Use drive-by honesty without being rude and impatience. State what you need and not necessarily what she is doing wrong. Have you ever had a hobby that you did for fun without any expect of return. For right now view this as a hobby with ferver.


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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
I'm an afterthought to my wife. It feels horrible. Her words, her body language, all of it speaks, " look I'll get around to finding you important when I get to it, back off.". How can I want to keep giving to that person? I'll work on how I approach being brutally honest I for sure showed impatience.


Hill... Hill, Hill, Hill...

doh2

Can you man up a bit, and give your week a one week stretch where she can try to get things going without you having a meltdown?


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Hill, you're not trying very hard at this program at all. You get impatient and expect this and that. I have a feeling you don't make it very pleasant to be around when you get disappointed or things aren't going your way. This is the second time in two days when things haven't gone your way that you've gotten really extreme on teh deep end.

STOP BEING SO EMOTIONAL! If I'm getting this over a screen, imagine what someoen living with you is getting.

Now DECIDE to have a good day. Stop letting others control how you feel. Start the darn day over. One thing my dad used to do is if the day started out with things going emotionally haywire, he'd just say, "Okay. We're getting worked up and emotional. We're starting over as if we just woke up."

YOU are making this harder than it is.

Call Steve harley today.


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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
I'm an afterthought to my wife.

No, you are not. And to allow yourself to think so will impede your progress.

Get your thoughts under control. They may cross your mind in the beginning, but DON'T DWELL ON THEM.


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Hill, I have a high need for affection. But we have 3-5 kids with us everyday. So we may not get a lot of time for affection aside from taking a breather in the kitchen for a minute to give each other a hug and a kiss.

From reading your posts, I've come to the conclusion that you are: impatient, judgemental, lecturing, not pleasant to be around when things are going your way, emotional, and whiney. These things are really immature. Be a man, get control of yourself, and maintain composure.

You keep buying these things for your wife. Do these meet a need of hers?


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Hill, stop stewing. Start today over. Seriously. Start it over. Give her a hug, tell her you don't want to fight anymore today and just start over.


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Originally Posted By: kilted_thrower
Hill, I have a high need for affection. But we have 3-5 kids with us everyday. So we may not get a lot of time for affection aside from taking a breather in the kitchen for a minute to give each other a hug and a kiss.

From reading your posts, I've come to the conclusion that you are: impatient, judgemental, lecturing, not pleasant to be around when things are going your way, emotional, and whiney. These things are really immature. Be a man, get control of yourself, and maintain composure.

You keep buying these things for your wife. Do these meet a need of hers?


Your entitled to conclude whatever you about me, in fact it is apparent from your posts that you have made that conclusion clear. What I will tell you is that I'm working incredibly hard at this and "I feel" that my wife is simply not. The LB's don't help of course but this is not her sole reason for not wanting to meet my EN's. It is a conscious choice that is being made, I know what I'm experiencing here each minute, hour, and day. It is real, not some fantasy I've created to argue with all of you and point all the blame at my wife. The snuggling, kisses, and hugs from the last three days were all initiated by me, not her. My wife suggesting that she is meeting my need for affection by kissing me back is just ridiculous.


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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted By: kilted_thrower
Hill, I have a high need for affection. But we have 3-5 kids with us everyday. So we may not get a lot of time for affection aside from taking a breather in the kitchen for a minute to give each other a hug and a kiss.

From reading your posts, I've come to the conclusion that you are: impatient, judgemental, lecturing, not pleasant to be around when things are going your way, emotional, and whiney. These things are really immature. Be a man, get control of yourself, and maintain composure.

You keep buying these things for your wife. Do these meet a need of hers?


Your entitled to conclude whatever you about me, in fact it is apparent from your posts that you have made that conclusion clear. What I will tell you is that I'm working incredibly hard at this and "I feel" that my wife is simply not. The LB's don't help of course but this is not her sole reason for not wanting to meet my EN's. It is a conscious choice that is being made, I know what I'm experiencing here each minute, hour, and day. It is real, not some fantasy I've created to argue with all of you and point all the blame at my wife. The snuggling, kisses, and hugs from the last three days were all initiated by me, not her. My wife suggesting that she is meeting my need for affection by kissing me back is just ridiculous.


doh2

REALLY?

Are you here to get help, or to look for justifications for your poor behavior towards your wife.

YOU are shooting YOURSELF in the foot, YOU are not listening, YOU are making a conscious choice to keep impeding the progress of your marriage.

I suggest you shape up and cut the bull before you stop getting responses.


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Well, Hill, I wish you the best then.


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Hill, did you ever enumerate the ways in which your need for affection could be met on the ENQ?


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
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Originally Posted By: CWMI
Hill, did you ever enumerate the ways in which your need for affection could be met on the ENQ?


Yes apparently not specific enough for my wife so I'm doing a new one specific with actual acts of affection and times of day thanks.

Kilt/Hold,

I'm taking a break, it is best for my wife and I. We tend to do better when I spend time in the workbook and not here. My wife told me she's never seen me this way until I began my journey here and that needs to change. I've received some great advice here from all of you actually so don't see me as a lost cause, I just think the format of a forum for some reason isn't conducive to making me chill out and do better. I hope to work on that, but for now I get feel insulted, bullied, and want to strike back. The best three days my wife had I didn't spend much time on here at all. I intend to try just that again and see if we can minimize the outside suggestions and perspectives. Thanks again for everything, maybe I'll check back next week!

Hill


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Hill, I don't know if you ever read the story ML shared about how they were working the program practicing by going to the store to POJA groceries. She got a head of lettuce she didn't like and I don't remember for sure but I think he went outside the store because he was angry. They related the story to Dr. H, who told them ML's H needed anger management.

I think your family needs outside intervention, too. The hostility and strife is tough especially on the kids. I have a 15 year old who makes excuses when folks are hostile to her, because her dad and I raised her steeped in the hostility and strife you and your wife describe. Somehow we thought it was acceptable to live like that, to raise kids in that, instead of being willing to go to any length to find a way to relate to each other peacefully. Sadly it wasn't until she was like 13 that the hostility and strife finally stopped here. I'm trying to play catch up so late, and so far it looks like I'm losing. Her dad and I made the choices, but she pays the consequences. I think it would be awesome if you could get the hostility and strife out of your home while your kids are still little and impressionable and can easily soak up new patterns to replace these faulty ones. I wish nothing but the best for you and your family.


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