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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972

I have a problem of not just accepting what people do. I always want to know why and what for. Its like, "you kissed me, but why?" type of stuff. I always want to know why. I do the same thing with my partner at work. If he has an issue why I did something I want to know why he has an issue.


Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972

I hear you loud and clear. I can't explain the "why" I do this, I just know that I do it. I'm compelled to do it, it is wrong, but I continue to do so.


Do you see the irony here?

Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972

but my actions and inability to control my emotions are hurting the healing process


You can feel emotion, and do the right thing anyway. You can be nervous and still deliver a speech or get a shot at the doctor. Emotions are not forcing your mouth to move and air to come through your vocal cords. You probably respond more favorably in front of strangers even when you are experiencing negative emotions than you do in front of your wife, right? It means you are capable of doing it, and can do it front of her, too.

You may consider getting a book about controlling emotions called, "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life." It is based on the same underlying principles that Dr. H's stuff is based on, but it isn't about marriage, it is about not being paralyzed by emotion.

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Originally Posted By: Penni4Thoughts
Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972

I have a problem of not just accepting what people do. I always want to know why and what for. Its like, "you kissed me, but why?" type of stuff. I always want to know why. I do the same thing with my partner at work. If he has an issue why I did something I want to know why he has an issue.


Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972

I hear you loud and clear. I can't explain the "why" I do this, I just know that I do it. I'm compelled to do it, it is wrong, but I continue to do so.


Do you see the irony here?

Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972

but my actions and inability to control my emotions are hurting the healing process


You can feel emotion, and do the right thing anyway. You can be nervous and still deliver a speech or get a shot at the doctor. Emotions are not forcing your mouth to move and air to come through your vocal cords. You probably respond more favorably in front of strangers even when you are experiencing negative emotions than you do in front of your wife, right? It means you are capable of doing it, and can do it front of her, too.

You may consider getting a book about controlling emotions called, "Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life." It is based on the same underlying principles that Dr. H's stuff is based on, but it isn't about marriage, it is about not being paralyzed by emotion.


Good way to put it! My poor wife dealing with me and my emotions, what a drag for her. Its not just emotions however it is obsessing about the intentions of everybody's actions rather than just taking someone's action or inaction for what it is. If my wife is grumpy because the kids and baby were pills all day, then she's just grumpy, no need to read into and and wonder if she's mad at me. Baby was screaming this morning, we think she is teething, so I'm gonna make every effort to create a killer environment when I get home for her.


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Hill,

I will admit that I was a constant DJer and have been working on it for some time now, which is why I felt compelled to respond.

In my experience, I DJ more when I am feeling insecure, undervalued, and like I am not being cared for. I was famous for saying things like, "You don't love me, do you?" when what I really mean was, "I'd like some affection, conversation, and UA time, please." When I learned how to ask for it in a respectful way, I got more of it, and it was of higher quality.

A DJ is a short term fix with long term negative consequences. In the short term, it might force our spouse to say something that we want to hear (e.g., "You're ridiculous, of course I love you" or in your case, "Of course I am not mad at you, I love you") but it also depletes their love bank. In addition, it doesn't help us much, because we don't value things they do and say as a result of a DJ (or SD) as much as we do if they just said it or did it on their own.

Since your wife is on board with MB and working on things, I think you are going to feel more and more cared for and these negative feelings and worries will start to go away. But, this doesn't place the blame on your wife. It is harder for her to show you care and to meet your needs when you are DJing. It is your responsibility to create conditions that make her want to show you care. You mentioned doing that above, so I think you get that, which is super.

Stop looking for short term gains (that have a long term negative effect) and consider this a long game. Less DJs now will result in less depletion of her love bank and more care from her overall. This care is going to help you feel more secure and will result in less negative thoughts and feelings on your part in the future. When you are feeling like saying a DJ, ask yourself, is this potential short term gain worth eroding her love and our marriage? Then ask yourself, what is it I really want right now?

Fix this now to protect how you will both feel in the future.

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Not a good night. We are scheduling with Steve Harley today, already sent requested dates in. The truth is from the moment someone suggested that I "get snooping" on my wife my security in this relationship went from 100% to 0% within the blink of an eye. Its not the forums fault or any particular persons, but I have interpreted that information and used it to create images in my head, and read into things that probably aren't even there. It just all added up, no more sex, not much of an interest in me, not replying to my emails about marriage, not replying to texts, stats on 50% of all marriages having A's, comments to me about how I might really have something to worry about in the A department. I honestly feel that my priority in her life comes between her plants and shopping on the internet. I don't even think affection is my top EN to be honest, I don't know what is. For now I seek things that make me feel better about the possibility of an A, and my wife and I agreed that if I can't get past these images and thoughts in my head we're not gonna progress anywhere. I was honest with my wife last night and she let down the thunder and was so hurtful this time. No need to get into all the details again, but lets just say she finished off the middle of the night conversation with a "You're ruining our lives, our marriage, and our kids." She called me psycho 20 times, disgusting another 10 times, among other things. She asked me if I was on drugs(no 100% no way on that.) She asked me questions, then we I began to answer them, she cut me off and yelled over me. I know what my wife is feeling to a degree and I don't blame her for being so frustrated with me. Maybe Steve H can walk me through some of this so that I can gain some confidence back in this marriage and react accordingly. I have not been able to control my feelings for anything longer than a day or two and so we always end up here. I think the soonest appt was tomorrow morning so we are aiming for this. My wife keeps talking about an "intervention" from my Dad? She says she can't go through this and that she wants to tell someone that we both know to maybe talk some sense into me? Not really sure, she said she is gonna do what she wants to do on this subject whether or not I agree. I'm focusing on remaining calm.


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Good luck with the phone consultation. However, if you can't control yourself, phone counciling isn't going to help you control your insecurities.

I don't agree with the telling a parent. Nothing was a bigger LB to me than when my wife used to tell me "I'm calling your mother". Geez. What am I, 3?

Call the Harleys and skip the going to mommy and daddy.


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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
We are scheduling with Steve Harley today,


This is fantastic, Hill. I think it would be a great move to tell your wife that you will continue to see Steve as long as she feels like she needs you to.

Quote:
It just all added up, no more sex, not much of an interest in me, not replying to my emails about marriage, not replying to texts, stats on 50% of all marriages having A's, comments to me about how I might really have something to worry about in the A department.


No, that doesn't add up to the total that you think it does.

It does not add up this way.

Prisca and I see a woman who is sincerely trying to meet your emotional needs and yet still keeps getting blown over every time you feel emotional. You felt emotional last night, so you woke her up. You needed reassurance, and you were willing to get it at her expense. Ouch.

Quote:
I honestly feel that my priority in her life comes between her plants and shopping on the internet.


Instead of browbeating your wife for not having strong feelings for you, change the way that you are treating her, and then she will have strong feelings for you and you'll never doubt that you are first in her life.

Quote:
For now I seek things that make me feel better about the possibility of an A, and my wife and I agreed that if I can't get past these images and thoughts in my head we're not gonna progress anywhere.


Start with trying to change what you do instead of changing what you think. Instead of trying to not worry about an affair, try to quit reacting to your emotions without thinking and asking for advice and forming a plan. I guarantee you did not have a plan when you woke grace up last night. You just felt something and reacted to it and set off a bomb in your relationship. Slow down. Calm down.

The following is not logical reasoning:
"Right now I am feeling insecure about our relationship and worried my wife is having an affair. Therefore I must wake her up now and we must talk about how important this is."

That's pure emotion right there. It's absolutely irrational, and it's also very selfish.

Mamas of littles need sleep. Badly.


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Quote:
Good luck with the phone consultation. However, if you can't control yourself, phone counciling isn't going to help you control your insecurities.

I disagree. If anyone can help Hill with being insecure and controlling himself, it's Steve Harley.


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Feelings follow actions. Instead of trying to control insecurities, I recommend trying to control what you do in response to insecure feelings.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted By: markos
Feelings follow actions. Instead of trying to control insecurities, I recommend trying to control what you do in response to insecure feelings.


I can get a 930 CST tomorrow with Steve but no word from my wife. I was thinking about talking to Steve on my own to work through my own issues, is anyone opposed to this? I am watching baby while my wife went with the boy to a school function, then on my way to the office. I got a total of one hour of sleep last night so I'm having a hard time doing much of anything right now.


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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
I can get a 930 CST tomorrow with Steve but no word from my wife. I was thinking about talking to Steve on my own to work through my own issues, is anyone opposed to this?


I think you talking to Steve on your own would be great. Be honest with him about your issues. Be brutally honest. Reveal to him your selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outbursts. I suggest you talk to him about the love busters YOU have done and only then talk to him about your wife.

That said, if your wife can talk with Steve, too, that would be very helpful.

Prisca and I got to meet Steve in person last year at the very last Marriage Builders weekend. He is the most respectful man I have ever known, and after a year of trying to figure out what disrespectful judgments are, I know that that is a real accomplishment! Dr. Harley has said of his son Steve that he is "respectful, almost to a fault," and it shows.

Steve is also a great motivator, and a great explainer of this program. smile


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
I can get a 930 CST tomorrow with Steve but no word from my wife. I was thinking about talking to Steve on my own to work through my own issues, is anyone opposed to this?


I think you talking to Steve on your own would be great. Be honest with him about your issues. Be brutally honest. Reveal to him your selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outbursts. I suggest you talk to him about the love busters YOU have done and only then talk to him about your wife.

That said, if your wife can talk with Steve, too, that would be very helpful.

Prisca and I got to meet Steve in person last year at the very last Marriage Builders weekend. He is the most respectful man I have ever known, and after a year of trying to figure out what disrespectful judgments are, I know that that is a real accomplishment! Dr. Harley has said of his son Steve that he is "respectful, almost to a fault," and it shows.

Steve is also a great motivator, and a great explainer of this program. smile


Sounds like a guy that I can learn a lot from, thanks.


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Wife sent me a text that said she didn't desire to speak with me today but that it wasn't silent treatment. I replied that I'm sorry she feels that way, guess that's all u can do. Already apologized for waking her up last night, guess she needs more time.


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Probably more than just time, Hill. Remember that you started down this road so, even though she may not have stayed on the moral high road herself, she's still reeling from the hurt of what you've done. She will want to see that you take that seriously.

An apology alone doesn't make things feel better for many people. An apology plus time doesn't do it, either.

Don't hesitate to reiterate to your wife that you feel that what you did last night was wrong. Wrong for waking her up, wrong for demanding that she talk to you when she wasn't enthusiastic, wrong for being judgmental toward her.

If you don't sound like you believe this was wrong and believe that this was the first step that started the fight, she will have trouble believing that you are ever going to get better. And her enthusiasm will wane.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
Wife sent me a text that said she didn't desire to speak with me today but that it wasn't silent treatment. I replied that I'm sorry she feels that way, guess that's all u can do. Already apologized for waking her up last night, guess she needs more time.


Exactly ... just validate her feelings and give her time to gather her self and recompose. Do NOt engage in any unpleasant conversation .. and do not instigate any unpleasant conversation. Keep things REAL simple and give her some time and space to calm down. Your outburst last night/this morning was a HUGE love bank withdrawl and will take a while to recover from. She will be hesitant to talk in fear of your emotional outburst.

I understand both sides to your scenerio. MY wife and I had a similar stand off. WHen I was at my wits end, we had began a slippery slope of emotional outbursts just before my wife dived in MB with me. My wife had told me she didnt love me anymore ... and wanted me to die and go away. She told me this many times over the course of a few weeks. Well .. that fueled my insecurity to the point where i was going to fulfill that request and kill myself.

During a VERY heated and emotional outburst and after about an hour of fighting I had descided it was time ... I got my rifle out of my gun cabinet ... and told my wife I was going to fulfill her request and kill my self. I reached for my bullets in the box on top of my cabinet in a rage of tears ( i couldnt even see properly my eyes were so red and swollen from crying and fighting and yelling ... i couldnt find the bullet and god slapped me and told me .. basicly WTF are you doing? I had promised I would never hurt my family and here Iwas .. about to hurt myself which WOULD hurt my family. I dropped my gun on the floor ... and went outside. My wife called my dad .. an he came the next day and took my guns from me. Told ME He wouldnt give them back until i was emotionally stable. THATS when I descided i needed counselling and my wife agreed and she came with me.

6 months later I got my guns back but that was after the MC and after we had read the HNHN book and some of the other book I had bought that my wife scoffed at many times when i was previously trying to convince her to join me with MB. When she finally did .. it all came to light. IT wasnt overnight tho that we "fixed" our relationship but it sure had a HUGE impact right away.

So .. I know the pain you are in ... I know the feeling of insecurity and uncertanty. I know the turmoil. I know the "craziness" your feeling.

Just breath ... and slow down. Dont think about tomorrow ... just work on today to be the best SELF you can be. Nothing is worth the stress that your causing to yourself by over reading into things. your wife is NOT .. I repeat NOT in an affair .. she is hurt from your emotional outbursts stemmed from your insecurity. Once you start doing things for YOU and being the man that you are and being more respectful to yourself and those around you ... your wife will respond alot better. Right now she needs to see you be a bit more stable on your own before she will be able to feel safe and secure to meet your needs.

MNG

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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
Wife sent me a text that said she didn't desire to speak with me today but that it wasn't silent treatment. I replied that I'm sorry she feels that way, guess that's all u can do. Already apologized for waking her up last night, guess she needs more time.


I'm a little weird here, Hill.

I don't like to apologize.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do apologize, and do it often. However, so do wife beaters.

The solution? Don't do or say things that you have to apologize for.

Don't engage in Love Busting behavior.

When you do apologize, do it sincerely, and do not try to justify your offense. Then, do not repeat the statement or action which you had to apologize for.

Think before you speak or act; is this important enough to my well being that I will stand behind it and not retract? Or is this simply a reactive gesture? Can I change this without making a statement or action which will be unpleasant to my spouse?


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"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Originally Posted By: MrNiceGuy
Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
Wife sent me a text that said she didn't desire to speak with me today but that it wasn't silent treatment. I replied that I'm sorry she feels that way, guess that's all u can do. Already apologized for waking her up last night, guess she needs more time.


Exactly ... just validate her feelings and give her time to gather her self and recompose. Do NOt engage in any unpleasant conversation .. and do not instigate any unpleasant conversation. Keep things REAL simple and give her some time and space to calm down. Your outburst last night/this morning was a HUGE love bank withdrawl and will take a while to recover from. She will be hesitant to talk in fear of your emotional outburst.

I understand both sides to your scenerio. MY wife and I had a similar stand off. WHen I was at my wits end, we had began a slippery slope of emotional outbursts just before my wife dived in MB with me. My wife had told me she didnt love me anymore ... and wanted me to die and go away. She told me this many times over the course of a few weeks. Well .. that fueled my insecurity to the point where i was going to fulfill that request and kill myself.

During a VERY heated and emotional outburst and after about an hour of fighting I had descided it was time ... I got my rifle out of my gun cabinet ... and told my wife I was going to fulfill her request and kill my self. I reached for my bullets in the box on top of my cabinet in a rage of tears ( i couldnt even see properly my eyes were so red and swollen from crying and fighting and yelling ... i couldnt find the bullet and god slapped me and told me .. basicly WTF are you doing? I had promised I would never hurt my family and here Iwas .. about to hurt myself which WOULD hurt my family. I dropped my gun on the floor ... and went outside. My wife called my dad .. an he came the next day and took my guns from me. Told ME He wouldnt give them back until i was emotionally stable. THATS when I descided i needed counselling and my wife agreed and she came with me.

6 months later I got my guns back but that was after the MC and after we had read the HNHN book and some of the other book I had bought that my wife scoffed at many times when i was previously trying to convince her to join me with MB. When she finally did .. it all came to light. IT wasnt overnight tho that we "fixed" our relationship but it sure had a HUGE impact right away.

So .. I know the pain you are in ... I know the feeling of insecurity and uncertanty. I know the turmoil. I know the "craziness" your feeling.

Just breath ... and slow down. Dont think about tomorrow ... just work on today to be the best SELF you can be. Nothing is worth the stress that your causing to yourself by over reading into things. your wife is NOT .. I repeat NOT in an affair .. she is hurt from your emotional outbursts stemmed from your insecurity. Once you start doing things for YOU and being the man that you are and being more respectful to yourself and those around you ... your wife will respond alot better. Right now she needs to see you be a bit more stable on your own before she will be able to feel safe and secure to meet your needs.

MNG


OMG! I'm soooo sorry it came to that point and I'm soooo glad you are here now. Stability would be key for me. I don't like being insecure, it totally sucks and I don't intend on remaining insecure forever.


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So I put kids down, baby was screaming, I fell asleep upstairs while wife was waiting for me to talk. She is hurt again she said that if I did that to her I'd be pissed. I suppose she is right. I slept two hours total last night and it caught up to me. I went up to make amends but she would have none of it. She said she got two hours of sleep too and that I'm not a priority to her. Not true, just fell asleep due to extreme exhaustion. So be it.


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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
So I put kids down, baby was screaming, I fell asleep upstairs while wife was waiting for me to talk. She is hurt again she said that if I did that to her I'd be pissed. I suppose she is right. I slept two hours total last night and it caught up to me. I went up to make amends but she would have none of it. She said she got two hours of sleep too and that I'm not a priority to her. Not true, just fell asleep due to extreme exhaustion. So be it.


You two shouldn't be talking when you are both exhausted. It's very hard to contain emotions when you have no energy.

However, if this was the case, the discussion should have been rescheduled through PoJA so you could both get some sleep.


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Gosh this sucks. I went upstairs to apologize for falling asleep and she wasn't interested in it. She was pouty and pissed. Bad timing to fall asleep but I didn't mean too. I literally fell asleep at 430 am last night.


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You guys are going to have to stop with the DJs. This is turning into a very bad edition of he says/she says.

You both should try to get a good night sleep, and bring this up the next day at an agreed upon time. And you should drop this accusation of infidelity thing. Either prove it by hiring a PI or wiretapping her or checking her computer or drop it entirely. You will have much more success if you meet her needs and she meets yours.

[start mini-rant]
This comment is to the world in general, if your wife is sleep-deprived or not a morning person, do NOT wake her up in the middle of the night looking for something that requires energy or thought (just because you are up at the time).
[end of rant]

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