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Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
For the first time since this came out a week ago, I actually felt last night after we talked that there might be some hope for us to try to start over.

There will only be hope if she ends contact for life with this OM. That has to happen or this will lead to divorce. I would go to her and tell her this is it. DEMAND that she end contact with him for life. Send him a no contact letter and commit to a plan of recovery. Anything less than that is a death of a thousand cuts that will lead to divorce. Her telling you when she contacts this loser is meaningless. If the alcoholic tells you when he drinks is he sober?

hurt, you need to stand up here and lead your marriage out of this mess. From what you have said here, it is clear that your fogged out wayward wife is in full and complete charge of your marriage and your family. That has to change if you want to make it.

I am reposting what I posted to Shatteredhopes on a another thread.

Set her down and let her know that you will give her an opportunity to EARN YOUR FORGIVENESS. Tell her you will not settle for a loveless marriage and what she has done has caused enormous damage. You will give her a chance to redeem herself. Ask her to send loserboy a no contact letter that is written together and approved by you. [I will post a sample in the next post]

In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end contact for life with the OM

2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc, eliminate the conditions that led to the affair, ie: delete facebook, etc


3. no more opposite sex friendships - no nights apart

4. complete honesty about her affair � passing a polygraph

5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.

She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Dr Harley
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent
here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
We talked last night and she is now saying that she has seen how happy she can be, etc. and does not know if that was real, or if she will be satisfied if she can't get that kind of happiness from me, etc.
This is fog babble, ignore it.

Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
Will she ever realize that she was in a fantasy world.
If all contact is ended, took my wife almost a year to finally start to defog.

Almost three years in and only now would I say she is 100% defogged.


The first thing you must do is expose this affair to EVERYONE!
Her parents
Her siblings
Her friends
Your friends your parents
your siblings
Your church
Heck, even the PTA if you need to.

Tell anyone and everyone you interact with that could put any pressure on WW to end the affair. And do it all at once so she does not get a heads up.

The second is do everything you can to stop all and any contact with om.
Have her phone turned of.
Block Facebook from your router.
Cancel her email.
Anything you can do to stop any type of contact.

Third, snoop!
GPS her car.
Hide a few Digital Voice Recorders around the house and in her car.


Things NOT to do.

Do NOT tell her you are going to do any of this, just do it. You do not call your enemy and give them your battle plan, you act without warning.

Do NOT, for any reason leave your house. If she is unhappy being around you, she can leave, not you. The only way you leave your house is via court order.

Do you understand these things?



Me 34
WW 30
Abandoned Feb 17th 08, D-Day Aprl 27th 08.
Returned home Jul 7th, OC born 12/30/08
The FOG is clear, and we are in recovery.
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There needs to be no contact with OM. Your wife needs to write a NC letter to him and you need to mail it.

Read Surviving an Affair asap. Whatever it takes for both of you to know the other isn't cheating (I won't say trust because you can throw that word out the window) needs to be done, if she has to give up her cell phone, change the number, block OM, you should have full access to cell phone records as she should also. Get a keylogger installed on your computer. You can't restore the marriage until you're positive the A has ended and none other has taken it's place.

Did your wife do this in retribution for your A? If so, it didn't help, only compounded things. She may have issues of distrust with you as well. ALL of this needs dealt with.

Careful not to sling all the blame to OM, your wife shares in that blame and beating him up may feel good to you but won't help the situation (and could land you in jail). You also have to share in it as you've contributed to the setting. Continue reading, HNHN, LBs, etc. Do the EN questionnaire and share responses with each other. Full exposure should be done with your family, her family, OM's family and it should be done all at once. If it makes her mad, sobeit...just tell her it's done to protect your marriage and you need everyone to be on board in protecting it.


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You can have the marriage she wants and needs but there is a lot of work that needs to go into it first...
1) NC
2) Her getting over OM
3) Working on Plan A

Read, read, read. Post questions, problems here, let experts walk you through this, but LISTEN and HEED what they say!


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Well today i feel like we made progress. She has agreed to not contact OM. She is finally starting to do things with some of her friends, which will be good. We did not have any mutual friends with the OM and his wife because he is such an a hole. She went to lunch with her friend today and told her firend that she was right and OM is a real ahole.

At least she has finally agreed to stop contacton OM.

Progress i think.

Thanks for all of your help and support



Last edited by hurtinfl123; 05/06/11 06:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
Well today i feel like we made progress. She has agreed to not contact OM. She is finally starting to do things with some of her friends, which will be good. We did not have any mutual friends with the OM and his wife because he is such an a hole. She went to lunch with her friend today and told her firend that she was right and OM is a real ahole.

At least she has finally agreed to stop contacton OM.

Progress i think.

Thanks for all of your help and support
Understand that you still need to monitor her. This is very early in recovery - you need to snoop to make sure you're safe.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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I realize it has been a week since the discovery, but it took me at least three weeks when i did this three years ago before i would think about staying together...i kept saying i had to find myself. She is still saying that a little, but not as much.

I told her today that if she kept in contact with him, even unanswered texts, i could not stay and basically gave her an ultimatum...she said she would not contact him. I am worried what happens if his wife kicks him to the curb. I asked my wife if she would go with him and sha said she is 99.9% sure she would not...that.1% scares the hell out of me...she said i am over analyzing it (which i do with everything, used to be an auditor).

I got hung up on the 99.9% because i wanted a sure thing. Am i being too analytical here since it has only been a week...i was not ready to say that after a week.

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Will she send that NC letter that ML posted above, hurtin? That is a big indication of her willingess to commit to the M and end the A.


Ddays 2007 and 2011
Plan B 6/21/11
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How to Plan B Correctly
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The problem that many BSs run into is that they believe it when the WS "says" that they will end contact.

Talk is cheap with waywards. The NC letter is an ACTION they can take to show you that they are serious.

You almost have to believe that contact will continue unless you can verify otherwise. I would have her to send that NC letter and then watch her very closely (snoop) for a while.


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Have not asked about the NC letter yet. My wife is very stubborn and even her mom said that she knows it is pissing my wife off that the OM just threw her away like she was nothing. She is very bullheaded you could say. I told her tonight that she needs to be 100% sure, not 99.9% before we move on. She said earlier that the 99.9% was in case something ever did happen i could not come back and tell her she lied. And that is how she has always been. And she says never say never all the time.

I think there is a good chance the OM is going to get kicked to the curb...that is what i worry about most i guess. Will he come for her and will she go for him? They have some pretty bad things about each other the last few days to other people and each other when things blew up...but i dont know.

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If you're too scared to do what has to be done then file for divorce now - It will be easier than being 100% sure about everything..

And I asked you some questions in my first post to you above that you haven't answered....


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
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Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
Have not asked about the NC letter yet. My wife is very stubborn and even her mom said that she knows it is pissing my wife off that the OM just threw her away like she was nothing. She is very bullheaded you could say. I told her tonight that she needs to be 100% sure, not 99.9% before we move on. She said earlier that the 99.9% was in case something ever did happen i could not come back and tell her she lied. And that is how she has always been. And she says never say never all the time.

Would you ask the same question of of a falling down drunk? Your wife is no more coherent than a falling down drunk. She is not sure of her own name right now. What you need from her is a committment to recover your marriage.

How about being a leader in your marriage and focusing on what will help your marriage rather the doings of a fogged out wayward. Who cares if she is stubborn? That is irrelevent. What matters is what you want. You can't use that as an excuse to let your marriage go to hell. Go tell her what it will take to recover your marriage. Give her an opportunity to EARN your forgiveness by making radical changes in her life.

If you want to save your marriage, then ending contact with the OM is just Step #1 of many other steps. It is just the start. Did you see my post about extraordinary precautions?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Yes, HIF, you should do all the things Mel suggested, but might I provide you some female psyche info about your past?

Your ww probably was utterly devastated when YOU had your AFFAIR. Do you remember how she might have felt immense pain and suffering yet you carried it on? You told her and made the woman wait THREE WEEKS for YOU to decide what you wanted to do.

Most likely if you did not do everything and I mean 100 percent everything in your power to show humility befor her, show her how you ended the affair and mostly showed her how you loved her above all others and were sorry for the horrible pain of the affair you had, and had a PLAN of recovery for your marriage and worked it 24/7 harder than anything you ever did, odds are she did NOT recover at all from YOUR affair.

I personally (being honest here) don't think there is any bw or bh around here who at one second or another thought about the whole "I'll get him/her back for that affair. Heck I'm still attractive." So she may have had a revenge affair. Or else, it was because this OM simply found her weakness (that you have had an affair on her) or discovered that and played it to the hilt, depositing LB stuff in her account left and right.

So right now, I think you need to do the most awesome plan A on the earth. I somehow feel your ww is hurting, that she had been hurting for quite some time, and that this guy came along at the right time, had proximity to her, and he either found out (maybe from his wife if she told him since you are all friends) or she told him about your affair and he used it.

That guy honestly sounds like a sociopath. He does. He sounds alot like my xh. My wxh only burned bridges with coworkers or x employees or business associates. Life was black/white with him. You were either on team Darth or his enemy. Sounds much like this guy. Therefore it is important to get her away from him and do that HUGE exposure as told you by others.

But my concern is you need to do a huger than huge plan A b/c I feel your wife's heart might have been broken for a few years. You have some hard work to do.

Do you sir, still associate in ANY way with the xow? Do you see her? Is there any residual contact at all? What exactly did you do after you ended that affair? I think this dynamic needs to be explored also, if you do intend to repair your marriage and heal your ww's heart.


Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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Question: Do you still work with the ow? You said she was a coworker.

If you do, that is like making a betrayed spouse die each day by a thousand paper cuts.

If you work with the ow, when you w kisses you goodbye each morning, she relives that pain over and over wondering what is going on each day and that is horrible to endure.


Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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Originally Posted by peachyisback
Question: Do you still work with the ow? You said she was a coworker.

If you do, that is like making a betrayed spouse die each day by a thousand paper cuts.

If you work with the ow, when you w kisses you goodbye each morning, she relives that pain over and over wondering what is going on each day and that is horrible to endure.

Yep - I asked him if he was NC with his OW - no answer. I suspect this is a part of the current dynamic.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
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Sorry for not repling before. My A was 3 years ago...OW left company about 2 months after i ended the A. Have had NC since she left work.

I know I let my LB account run in the red, and I am committed to doing everything I can to get the balance up high enough to get me in Forbes Magazine.

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You should have quit your job immediately when you ended your A.

Your wife should write the NC letter but YOU should mail it.

What is your ideas for Plan A? What changes are you going to incorporate?


Enacting life's lessons into positive change... .
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