He owns a bar. I've searched his background on several of the different investigative sites. Even paid. All list him as single.

On to the next hurdle: This would be D-day +1, right? Here's the atmosphere.

She's walking around here and it appears she is very angry. She really doesn't want to talk to me. She won't look at me very much either.

She says she's not mad at me. She's mad at herself. She says she still feels the same as I described yesterday (shame, embarrassed, feeling as if she deserves to die).

Part of me wants to give her space to fix herself. That is exactly what my counselor told me to do the last two sessions (i.e. we can't fix our marriage if we don't fix ourselves first).

But the other part of me wants to heed Plan A and what I believe you all are telling me to do: Don't back down and assert my feelings.

So, this morning as she is getting ready to take our youngest to school I approach her and tell her we need to discuss the situation and what we need to accomplish to move forward with our recovery. I agreed that she needs to fix her internal problems but added that she has much to do to start earning back love and trust.

I started with telling her that we need to eliminate the conditions that caused the problem to begin with. I tell her that we need complete transparency (i.e. no more sneaking around on Facebook, setting extra security precautions on our various accounts to tell us when one another have logged into each others accounts, changing passwords).

She reacted with acquiescence. She said "You want my passwords, fine here are my passwords." She then gave me her email and Facebook passwords. She added that she deleted her secondary account that she had created. Then says "You want me to delete my Facebook account? I will. I don't care. I don't have anything to hide. I don't want to talk to anyone anymore anyway."

At this point, I'm starting to get a little angry and am just holding my tongue. I don't want to commit any Love Busters so I just hold my tongue and leave the room. What angered me was the way in which she said everything. It all felt very condenscending. She said that it wasn't her intention and repeated that her anger is with herself.

I just don't trust her to be true about her feelings yet. I don't even think she understands her feelings.

So my question is this: When do I introduce her to what I've learned from this and other sites? When, if ever, do I point her in the direction of a resource that will explain "The Fog" to her?

I don't have faith that she can sort this out on her own.

Her solution was to go to her doctor today and get a prescription to zonk her out so that she will stop feeling like she wants to die.

I don't know that that is unwise, but I'm certain she will never come to understand "The Fog" and all this other stuff we're going through without a nudge in the right direction.

What do I do next?

SH, you don't need to explain the fog to her. She will realize that in due time on her own. You only need to lay out your conditions to her. Tell her what it will take to earn your forgiveness. Lay out the plan for recovery and LEAD YOUR MARRIAGE into recovery.

TAKE her up on deleting the facebook page. Tell her you appreciate the offer and would like to take her up on that. Tell her that is what it will take to make you feel safe and ask her to delete it now.


Don't waste time on some fruitless pursuit to fix her. That is a distraction. She doesn't need to fix anything other than your marriage so that should be the main focus. You don't have to "fix yourself" in order to fix your marriage.

Just calmly and politely lay out your plan for recovery. Be a broken record: "here is what it will take..." Right now she is the falling down drunk who just had her booze taken from her. She is angry and sullen. She will go up and down for the next few days. What you have to do is make sure she doesn't resume contact with the OM.

Do you have the book, Surviving an Affair? I would get that book along with the workbook, Five Steps to Romantic Love and read them. That will give you a plan for recovery. Show her those books.

Have you told your children yet?

Again I appreciate all the advice. I really do.

I'm thinking of this from my perspective. I almost had several nervous breakdowns during this whole process. When I was finally able to pull myself together, I didn't do it alone. Of course I had support from my family. But I also found great comfort in finding understanding of what I was going through on sites like this one.

I believe that I'm the "rational, sane" spouse at this point and that she is not herself. I understand "The Fog" and know that is exactly what she is going through.

She doesn't. Not. One. Bit.

Right! Just like a falling down drunk doesn't understand that he is fogged out. He is too drunk to realize it! Your wife is the equivalent of a falling down drunk. She is addicted to the OM and is high on her affair. So, don't waste your time trying to convince her she is foggy. You can't REASON with a drunk. All you can do is tell her "this is what it will take..." Give her your conditions and explain they are not negotiable.

I am not convinced her affair is over, though.

Here's the thing.
Recovery will happen in the presence of all sorts of feelings. Understood, or not.
It's recovery actions by which we measure recovery progress.
You can/should care about her feelings.
But know this ~~~> next mood change in 60 minutes.
Continue to keep your "trap" closed. Particularly do not render any opinion about her feelings. They belong to her.


A couple of weeks at the soonest. That's my opinion.


She will go through her roller coaster of feelings.
The dynamics of her fall into her A will be more easily understood BY HER once she has stopped all OM contact for a minimum 2 weeks.


What RX?
If the MD gave her anti depressants, they do not "zonk".


Later ... And the BEST way to help her understand is to buy SAA (see bookstore) and read it together.
But .... not yet. She is too raw.


Keep a roll of duct tape handy for your mouth.
Dig DEEP and find empathy when your wife least deserves it.
She is hurting.
She needs a hero.
Do you know of any available heroes?
Stop trying to "fix" her.
Start offering a strong (silent) shoulder to cry on.
Give her non-sexual hugs.
Offer her "time out" from the kids to go have a bubble bath. (She will have a good cry)


The MOST important thing right now?
NO CONTACT WITH OM

Your wife will get better if there is NC.
She is in withdrawal.

I know money is tight everywhere and money is at a premium for many people. But please consider getting the best there is out there to help you and your WW. The meager price you pay for quality far overrides the cost. And its much cheaper than a divorce. Coaching Center.
Tell her over and over what your conditions are. IE the broken record. Do it with heart felt determination.
She wont understand or trust her feelings for a bit. Be patient.

Then, show empathy.
You can't fix this with a hammer.
Put the hammer down.
Administer hugs.

Still snoop. Use tools to do so.
Don't think about fixing her internal problems. Every one has them. No one is fixed. We are all a work in progress.
One great thing about MB is it is behavioral. You act and your feelings follow.

All humans would feel like they were having a nervous breakdown being faced with their mate's betrayel. That is being a human. It is a horrible, sucky experience but must be a useful coping stage.

Pace yourself and try to stay the course.

Well, she just got home from the doctor and I asked her how it went. She didn't want to tell me. She didn't want to tell me what they prescribed and got mad that I asked. It was a simple conversational question which she interpretted as me being controlling.

When I sensed she was angry at my question, I backed off and went to a different room.

She followed and had an angry, tearful outburst. She says that she feels like nothing she ever does is going to be enough to earn my trust back. That I will always question her every move. That I will never forgive her.

I tried repeatedly to reassure her that I know we are in crisis and that there is hope for reconciliation. I told her that we both have to have faith and work at rebuilding trust in one another (i.e. My trust in her fidelity and her trust in my capacity to forgive her). REPEATEDLY.

Her fog is very thick. She cried hysterically, said she is about to die inside. She again expressed extreme anger at the Exposure that "I inflicted on her". She said that she will NEVER be convinced that exposure was the right tool. She questioned intently as to who provided me with the advice for such an extreme exposure.

I told her that I offer no apologies. That the shame and embarrassment are the results of her own actions, not the exposure. I told her that she can't have an affair without consequence.

She latched onto that and said that I just want her to suffer like I've been suffering. That I only did it to hurt her.

I repeatedly tried to assure her that was not the case. That this was a step in our recovery and that we would be stronger and happier for this.

My words fell on deaf ears.

She left to get our youngest from school, bawling.



This is extremely difficult. I am questioning the wisdom in my decision to use this technique. My wife suffers from PTSD from past trauma. Does that have an impact on this process?

Did you mention Marriage Builders? It's a little early to give up this site as a resource.

Hence, the DUCT TAPE !

Shut up !

Pepper, should I just back off now?

Do not let her convince or cajole you to get off this site, she has zip say in this and the only item she should be working on is saving your marriage. Buy her "surviving an affair" it is a good start for her to learn about marriage.

Go back & read my previous responses.
Tell me what you think I meant.

I'm not sure, Pepper. I've been trying to follow your advice. I've been relying heavily on the Carrot & Stick. I just don't know how to proceed.

I don't want to push her further away.

Your WW's reaction is par for the course they all hate exposure they make claims they were about to end it ...NOT. Ignore her anger and crying while outwardly showing empathy, a shoulder for her to cry on and a same place to be always remember she did not and is not considering your feelings in this. All she worries about is herself if she was so concerned she would not be comitting adultry.

Follow the process , stay firm and resolute, the battle is still on, there is a long way to go.

Don't expect dramatic changes at this moment, patience patience

Remember this?

You cannot control HER feelings.
Stop trying.

You can show empathy that she is IN PAIN without projecting any weakness in your position that her affair must end.

You will become the more attractive choice for her by administration of the carrot.
Empathy for her feelings.
A shoulder for her to cry on.
Offering her domestic support while she gets herself straightened out.
Offering her hope for forgiveness.

NONE of this is accomplished by "getting her to understand" herself.

This is all about YOU becoming a warrior who fights the bad guy (OM) and does not tell her that her feelings are wrong.

I realize that is is probably not one of your areas of expertise, so please listen.

You will lose the carrot if you try and cram "understanding" down her throat at this time. It simply will not work.

Are you a family that has attended a church?

Most importantly ... you never have an opinion about the "rightness" or the "wrongness" of her feelings.

When in doubt, ask for or offer a hug.

Non verbal Plan A carrot will give you the most bang for your buck.

I still have not been able to lay out the plan of action melody suggested. I only got two of the 6 things she suggested out before she shuts down. I don't want her to feel like I'm berating her. I'm trying to be firm and consistent with my message. I just haven't been able to get it all out yet.

I ordered "His Needs Her Needs" and "Surviving an Affair".

I don't think she'll read them