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Originally Posted by markos
Fog remaining in a patch or two is still a big improvement for most of us. smile I think Mr. Wondering has a good post somewhere about how we are all subject to fog (even betrayed spouses), and how somebody pointing out our areas of fog can be helpful.


I don't know where the original thread is, but here is part of that post:

Originally Posted by Mr.Wondering from 2007
To the Foggy;
Foggy is not a bad word. It's merely an assesment by those that have come before you of your current position. I've been foggy, Mrs. Wonderings has been foggy...almost everyone here has been foggy at one point or another dealing with this mess. The term is thrown around here quite often as a way to say "come on, think about what you are saying/arguing...you are so close to processing this and you just refuse". We also want to make clear to newbies that your advice, statements, arguments, questions should be, in our opinions "caveated" (if thats a word) and/or disregarded as your perspective is not YET in alignment with the principles here on MB.
We are not condemning you to a lifetime of fogginess (though I am certain some remain there). We are hopeful that your perspective will change and become more healthy. By sticking around and continuing with these debates seeds of clarity ARE certainly being planted. So keep going but try not to take offense to us so easily for one day you will be us, no kidding. We are thankful MB has provided the forum for your (and our) development as we ALL put our minds around this momentus event that occured in all our lives. MB, really is the best infidelity recovery program known today. I don't think I could improve it and I really don't see how one fresh out of an affair could even conceive of improving it, but I understand how the fogginess makes one try.
When Mrs. Wondering and I first arrived (I read first but she initiated us posting), she and I both poked fun at the cult like attitudes that were being presented to us. We too thought some of the methods were being portrayed to rigidly and were QUESTIONABLE, to say the least. We thought we could swath our own path. We WERE foggy then so we completely understand and SEE where you all are coming from now. No worries, we love ya anyway.
We respect the foggy individuals as what they are and as they post here PROCESSING what they need to process to become healthy again, whether individually, as a marital partner or as a divorcee. We all are here rooting for you all to fully get it.

[removed irrelevant]

BTW, we are still foggy ouyselves on some issues including in particular conflict avoidance. We are trying to learn and get better but its tough to break old engrained habits. The difference is, I would not begin to tell, question or advise people, how to address their conflict avoidance issues, let alone in opposition to the stated professional principles, until I had at least got a handle on my own.
Foggy is NOT a put down, it's who you are and who I am. I believe us to be at differing levels of fogginess, but, I guess, thats just my opinion. I wish you all a succesful journey...we really do want to see you on the other side of these arguments and healthy/healthier one day.

Mr. Wondering


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Originally Posted by strugglingaz
So Gack, I see on your information, D-Day was 2008 and its 2011 and the fog still remains in a patch or two?? That doesn't leave me much hope.
Thanks for reminding me about that, been a year since I updated it.

Took about a year after NC for FWW to defog enough to actually genuinely try any type of real recovery. Before that she sounded just like you.

We have nothing in common.
I never loved anyone like OM.
He came into my life for a reason.
Your like a Brother to me.
I never really loved you.
Blah, Blah, Blah.

After that passed, it was just patches of occasional fog. Mainly not realizing what she was saying and kinda "Glossing" over the repercussions of what she had done. She realized OM was a mistake, but was not 100% on board the marriage train either.

It was not until about a year ago she showed true, genuine remorse. The type of remorse someone shows when they realize they deliberately hurt the person they love.

It's really a shocking change.

Don't worry, you will eventually see OM for what he truly is. And you will realize that you have rewrote your marital history to fit and justify your current actions.

The question is how long will you drag this faze out by maintaining some form of contact, and will your marriage outlast your continued contact.


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Interesting story Gack. So my question is if she was in the fog for that long, what made her continue to stay in the marriage? What eventually led to the change in her? Does she post on here?


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Originally Posted by strugglingaz
Interesting story Gack. So my question is if she was in the fog for that long, what made her continue to stay in the marriage? What eventually led to the change in her? Does she post on here?

Struggling, if you are looking for a reason to stay in your marriage, take a long look at those two little girls of yours ...


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A number of things.

Her family and friends hitting her with 2x4s about her affair.
The reality of OM's financial situation.
My lawyer stalling the divorce.
Me learning how to, and actually meeting her emotional needs.
The slow realization that OM was NOT who/what she thought he was.

I also cook a mean steak.

I can assure you that being "In Love" with me was NOT one of them. Because at that point in time, she was not.

Originally Posted by Prisca
if you are looking for a reason to stay in your marriage, take a long look at those two little girls of yours ...
Also, if you really don't know "Who you are"

Ask them, they can probably tell you.

Last edited by Gack1; 05/06/11 03:49 PM.

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Originally Posted by strugglingaz
What eventually led to the change in her?

Change?

Change isn't a magic dust-bunny that is going to jump out from underneath the couch one day and whack you with the happy stick.

Change begins within YOU. And it begins with something very small, and very simple - a choice.



Make a choice. Commit to the marriage, or don't.

You know what not committing to the marriage looks like already...


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
You know what not committing to the marriage looks like already...

AAAAACTually, I would hazard a guess that strugglingaz knows very little about what it really looks like to be out of the marriage. I suspect it is much, much worse than she imagines.

***

Glad to see you back, strugglingaz.


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Originally Posted by Mrs_Vanilla
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
You know what not committing to the marriage looks like already...

AAAAACTually, I would hazard a guess that strugglingaz knows very little about what it really looks like to be out of the marriage. I suspect it is much, much worse than she imagines.


Yes...the reality is so much worse. Add to that when you finally understand the magnitude of what you've done and how YOU are to blame for deliberately hurting the man who loved you and driving him away, and subsequently you blew your daughters' lives apart, that knowledge eats at you every single day. When you can't stand to look at yourself in the mirror because you sold yourself so cheaply...you threw away marriage, your family, and in return you receive absolutely nothing.

THAT is my reality. THAT is what it is like to be out of the marriage.

struggling, I for one want to see you and your BH succeed. You don't want the world I live in. Trust me.

I am glad to see you back, too.


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I started reading this thread last night, (mothers day), and I got thru 27 pages till I had to jump to the end to see if this statement was merited...

Another MB success story and building love in action, WooHoo!!

Happy Mothers Day all..

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(((( wulffpack_girl ))))

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Originally Posted by strugglingaz
How do you send personal messages on here?

You don't.
That feature has been disabled to prevent inappropriate relationships beginning on this web site.

If you want to communicate with Mrs W .... click "notify" tab on YOUR post, and write to the mods.
Give them YOUR email address and permission to share it with Mrs W.

Best wishes.
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Originally Posted by Pepperband
(((( wulffpack_girl ))))


thank you, Pep.... hug

I see some hope for strugglingaz, you know? And I might not be the best at saying things, but I just don't want her to end up like me...completely fogless, full of regrets, and alone. If I'd found MB sooner maybe it would have helped my M, maybe not, I'll never know...I don't know if I can help strugglingaz with my own experience (sort of "do as I say, not as I did"!!!), but I'd like to try!


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WPG

Look forward to better tomorrows.
Learn from your past, but dwell in the present.

I am praying for your personal recovery.

Hang in there stickout toots!

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T/J
Originally Posted by wulffpack_girl
I see some hope for strugglingaz, you know? And I might not be the best at saying things, but I just don't want her to end up like me...completely fogless, full of regrets, and alone. If I'd found MB sooner maybe it would have helped my M, maybe not, I'll never know...I don't know if I can help strugglingaz with my own experience (sort of "do as I say, not as I did"!!!), but I'd like to try!

Just like we are all wired for affairs, we are wired for mistakes also. I have read many of your responses here to posters and have allways enjoyed your outlook and objectivity. For what its worth.

When we make mistakes and are not willing to teach others from them, and help them avoid them, though honesty and humility, that is when we are truely selfish. At those times we are forced to teach from the aspect of, "Do what I say, not as I did". Just look to the bible, 12 of the writers of the books were murders.

Life is for learning I have heard it said. I for one am so glad you are here WPG, and I too am here to help others avoid and understand from my mistakes. Like pep said, I am also working towards living in the now and putting painful things behind. Just being here soothes my soul, and helps me to realize that I am not alone. It helps me also to grow, and stabilize my values, as the people her are so awesome and are also learning how to take care of themselves, in or out of a marraige.

Looking forward to seeing you recover fully, and your insight, as we hang with the big dogs around here. (BTW Pep, that saying in your sig line that you stole from one of my posts grumble, it originally came from a bunch of guys and I changed it to fit the post, it was.."If you want to pee with the big dogs..you gotta lift your leg high". I chuckled when I saw it in yur sigline)

End T/J

StrugglinA, hows it going? Keep us up to date k?

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Originally Posted by Michael Jordan
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

The most successful people in the world, in history, have only made it that way because while they knew failure, while they made mistakes, they never gave in to defeat.

Originally Posted by Confucius
"Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising every time we fail."

Quitting might seem like "the easy way out," but it can come with a heavier cost which cannot be recovered; regret. Regret that we didn't try, regret that we ALLOWED ourselves to fail, to be defeated.




"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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T/J of my own...Pep, you are a blessing to this forum!!! And thank you, CP! I for one am glad you are here as well, sharing your experiences and insight. Your advice is solid and straightforward, and FWIW, you are a poster who I always read, 'cause I do consider you one of the big dogs! laugh

end T/J

Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Originally Posted by Confucius
"Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising every time we fail."

Quitting might seem like "the easy way out," but it can come with a heavier cost which cannot be recovered; regret. Regret that we didn't try, regret that we ALLOWED ourselves to fail, to be defeated.


I think this is good advice for all of us. Struggling, this weekend, I was quoting a "Pa-ism" (my grandfather) to DD#2, who was telling me she wanted to quit playing guitar:

Originally Posted by Pa, rephrasing Confucius :)
Winners never quit, and quitters never win.

Struggling, it is HARD. So many days you will want to throw up your hands in utter defeat. I know I do. But somehow I keep going forward. Some days it is only because, well, I have no choice. Someone has to feed the kids and take them to school, you know? But the fog will clear. The love you had for your BH will return. Allow him to meet your needs, and meet his in return. Read what Gack said about his WW again, how she slowly realized the truth about the OM. Maybe you already know the truth about him. Maybe you figured it out a long time ago, but don't want to admit it. Because when we realize what a scumbag the OM is, we then have to face what that says about us.

Don't be a stranger around here, 'kay?


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Originally Posted by wulffpack_girl
Because when we realize what a scumbag the OM is, we then have to face what that says about us.

Big lesson, that right there. And not a pretty one. But totally, totally necessary.


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Originally Posted by Pa, rephrasing Confucius :)
Winners never quit, and quitters never win.


Awesome example of plain old horse sense WPG. Thank you for the compliment BTW, and HHH, those are the very examples we all need to relate to when we "hit the wall" in life.

StrugglingAz, when I started to read your thread, I at first wanted to hammer you also becuase I thought you were just not gonna get it at all, but I noticed the dates, and read through patiently holding my tounge, because I know how all this has to have time to sink in. Yes even to an independant self-made woman of the world.

Then as I was reading you made connections to other FWW, and as time passed, it started to gel in yourself, that there was a connection here, and that others understood, and maybe you were not alone in these struggles.

Many people come here thinking what is taught here means they are going to lose something, and they do not see that what is preached, is encouraged because it brings about abundance in life, not loss.

Of course that is what we see in marriage to begin with right? Two working together as one?

I hope you stick around, and are processing everything the books and concepts have to offer to build your marriage into something personal you can share with your Husband, that can not compare with anything else or anyone else, just as you or him cannot be replaced, by anyone else either. It is truly the most important relationship we will have with anyone in our whole lifes as human beings.

As different as all people are, the ground rules about relationships are much the same. You will find them and thier benifets in all the concepts you practice on this site and in Dr Hs teachings. You will still have a different marraige than others, and the problems you overcome internally, will be more precious than Gold.

Keep giving it time, and open yourself up to this part of your growth in your marraige. You will never regret it.

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Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
StrugglingAz, when I started to read your thread, I at first wanted to hammer you also becuase I thought you were just not gonna get it at all, but I noticed the dates, and read through patiently holding my tounge, because I know how all this has to have time to sink in. Yes even to an independant self-made woman of the world.

Then as I was reading you made connections to other FWW, and as time passed, it started to gel in yourself, that there was a connection here, and that others understood, and maybe you were not alone in these struggles.

Many people come here thinking what is taught here means they are going to lose something, and they do not see that what is preached, is encouraged because it brings about abundance in life, not loss.

Of course that is what we see in marriage to begin with right? Two working together as one?

I hope you stick around, and are processing everything the books and concepts have to offer to build your marriage into something personal you can share with your Husband, that can not compare with anything else or anyone else, just as you or him cannot be replaced, by anyone else either. It is truly the most important relationship we will have with anyone in our whole lifes as human beings.

As different as all people are, the ground rules about relationships are much the same. You will find them and thier benifets in all the concepts you practice on this site and in Dr Hs teachings. You will still have a different marraige than others, and the problems you overcome internally, will be more precious than Gold.

Keep giving it time, and open yourself up to this part of your growth in your marraige. You will never regret it.

Oh, wonderful post, CP! hurray

strugglingaz, you have so many people here who want you to succeed in this endeavor: succeed in your marital recovery and, even more necessary, succeed in your personal recovery. (Without the latter, you'll never achieve the greatest heights of the former.)

I hope your quietness means perhaps you are corresponding w/ Mrs. W, or that you are spending lots of time reading and learning and implementing the MB program. Please continue to visit the forum, and, please, keep posting. As rough as the threads get sometimes, I can't think of a single instance where someone was worse off for coming here.


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Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
BTW Pep, that saying in your sig line that you stole from one of my posts grumble

Yes. I did.
stickout

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